WIP - Pirat Girl "Now, we can negotiate"

[echom]

I love the overall theme of this. Craft-wise, this is astounding...
I don't have anything to criticize, so I'll just throw in my vote for the key... I don't know, I think this works the story of the image a lot better. I mean, every proper pirate is going to want this key to some unknown treasure really bad :D Maybe you could make the string a little thicker... It looks a bit like it's going to break very easily. And you wouldn't want her to drop the precious item, do you? ;D

[Kageko]

I like everything except her left hand. While the rest is painted convincingly, the arm and the hand doesn't look finished. It's probably because of the wrong placed highlights. Take a photo of your own hand with this gesture and take it as a reference! This might help a lot, especially with the shadows.

[Revitgnome]

I agree with Kageko. The foreshortening looks off, specifically how the thumb and index finger connects to the wrist. Also, I think the neck is a great deal thick then it needs to be, makes her look really butch...unless of course that is your intention. Making her neck more slender, I think would add grace to her body.

The rest looks very good. keep it up. I look foward to your next iteration.

--Cheers

[Katea]

echom - Thank you :)
I did make the string a bit thicker and I think I will go for the key. My thoughts on that matter have been pretty much the same. :) The key means more mysteries, without it you can stare at the lock for ages and never know what is inside the chest/behind the door etc :)

Kageko - Thanks, I have actually taken a picture of my hand, but it was poor quality and I was changing the angles a bit (my hands are small, so I can't literally paint them as they are or people would instantly say "what?? nobody has such small hands" ;)), so maybe that's why it looks odd. I will try to bend the thumb a bit to the left and take another look at how the hand looks by taking a photo of it :)

Revitgnome - I haven't noticed the neck before as too thick, but now that you mentioned it, I think it could be a bit thinner :) Thank you.

I have just read your comments so I will apply changes later but in the meanwhile I've been painting so here are the results.

First of all just for the sake of it some in between stages :) First thing was a picture of me taken by my friend as a ref, and then some sketches, changes and making the girl look at least a bit like me ;)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6870/compt.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=compt.jpg)


Secondly, I added some dirt, jewelery etc, and repainted some shades cause they seemed flat. I think I might have flatten her forearm by painting bracelets in an odd perspectiv (just noticed) I will have to fix it...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6292/pirat2flatsmall2800.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pirat2flatsmall2800.jpg)

And here goes an experiment: I'm thinking of placing the girl on the ship. I have to first learn what the ship parts really look like, but this is just an impression of what I think it might look like. What do you think? :)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7759/pirat12flatliny800.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pirat12flatliny800.jpg)

[CybrGfx]

The anatomy of the torso is wonky.
Look at the ref. photo again.
Look at the placement of the shoulders, the backbone, the breasts, and the ribcage.

You turned this into a very bizarre and unnatural side profile, with the head and the arm based on a more realistic 3/4 profile.

The breasts, up so high, are especially unbelievable...

The hand is also too large and masculine for the image. It is over-dominating the picture, which, combined with the strange, droopy, angle of the gun, makes this look more fantasy than real.

~C

[Katea]

CybrGfx - than you for your comment. I don't really get the "wonky" part but I tried to make her a bit less wonky the way I understood your comment ;) The photo doesn't really show the right silhouette - I was wearing a very loose dress so it's not really close to the body. I'm trying to think of a new way for the clothes to compose. I lowered the breasts and twisted them a bit.

Also I have repainted the hand - I quite like it I must say, and the key - though I think I have to repaint the string a little. Oh, and I applied some highlights to her face because the skintones seemed flat to me. I also made the neck thinner. :)


http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1978/pirat15600.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pirat15600.jpg)

[echom]

Hey there again,

I personally don't think the body is that strange. The ref (to me) looks like a view from the side. But you are right, the loose dress really leaves room for interpreting the perspective quite a bit.
I am again going to criticize the string of the key again... (sorry :D). I think that physics do not allow that bit between her thumb and index finger to dangle down. Wouldn't the key pull the string down?

Sorry, I don't have more broad comments for your piece. I still just like it very much :D
:thumbsup:

[Katea]

Echom -Thanks! ;D I know about the string - Thats what I meant when I said i had to repaint it ;)))

And just for fun - a pencil portrait of Captain Barbossa, that I am drawing right now - being an inspiration for the digital painting (ref. used of course) ;)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5227/barbossasmall800.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=barbossasmall800.jpg)

[JoKeRman]

Hey Katea,

Overall I think the piece is coming along nicely. I can't wait to see the background. I just have one little C&C;

I feel that she should have a more sinister kind of grin. Kind of like a, "Haha, I have this key and a gun pointed to your chest. Try and get it." expression. That's more of a personal preference though.

[vicmonty]

I love the painting and the barbossa pic. On the key, if you wrap it around the thumb like you wrapped it around the index finger, then it would work. I like the piece hanging like that. I say, just wrap some string around the thumb and physics is dealt with. Tied around 2 fingers with a bit of slack in between the first 2 digits. How long did the steps take you? I'm new to digital painting and I'm having a heck of a time learning.

[Revitgnome]

Nice to see you picked up the areas that everyone commented on.


Looking foward to seeing the background! Keep it up Katea!!!

--Cheers

[raradolly]

I like the version of the necklace that's glowing green... I think it's really pretty and looks more valuable than just a key. But that's just my opinion.

[Katea]

JoKeRman - I will try to do my best about the face, but I can't promise anything :)

vicmonty - thank you for the tip :) About the time - I really can't tell. I usually work on and off I don't keep the track of time. I can only say it seems to take really long ;))

Revitgnome - Thank you! I try to take suggestions because I can't always see obvious mistakes - not in my works anyway - I spend too much time painting to be able to judge :) BTW - just fyi I am an architect using autocad. I hope I can go for help to you when needed ;)

raradolly - yes, the glow and the necklace itself seem tempting , but I guess that the key is a bit more mysterious. :) Anyway thank you for your vote :)

[sweetravin]

This is such a gorgeous picture I love it. Did you want the figures face to look more like the models? The model seems to have a softer face. the paintings cheeks are so hard and high and the models features seem to be softer. The models right side of her face is more of a soft outline curve rather then a jagged one.

[Katea]

sweetravin - thank you :) Thanks to your remark I actually started looking at the original photo (of me btw) and I had to rethink the face.
Apparently I want to see my face a little less soft in the outline, but what I think of myself may not really be true ;) I have to say it was so hard to let go of the strong cheekbones, but you are so right my face does not have those, so they had to go. I repainted the eyes, the outer corners are lowered now, she looks slightly more to the right so it seems she is looking at us directly, the lips went up, and the chin is different. Oh and I checked with my pictures taken during summer vacation in bright light and it seems that the face is never so illuminated - it is almost always in shade with only some highlights. So the new face seems darker - because of this and well... because of flattening the cheekbones (still feel free to comment if you think it looks weird being so dark - but look at the picture separately - in comparison it looks odd).
Here are the steps:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3159/facesj.jpg (http://img223.imageshack.us/i/facesj.jpg/)

Oh, And I can't figure out the composition, I could use some help. I made 4 different steps with different backgrounds. It seems that the third one is the best but the fourth might work too (although the opposite angle of the ropes makes her look like she is not standing so proudly anymore)... or maybe the second with the key on a pure blue backgroud for emphasising the important thing?... what do you think?

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4844/state1.jpg (http://img362.imageshack.us/i/state1.jpg/)

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4408/state2.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/state2.jpg/)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5325/state3.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/state3.jpg/)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/787/state4m.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/state4m.jpg/)

[Katea]

Okay... I just posted, but I did some changes to the head... I think a slightly smaller head moved to her right would be better. Would she still look balanced?

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9633/pirat23500.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/pirat23500.jpg/)

[sweetravin]

Wow, you really have an amazing talent. She looks much more like you now. I think that the version you have before last is closer to the smile you have, but the last version has the rest of you- the eyes looking at the viewer really adds so much.
In the photo of you it looks like the right corner of your lips actually touch your laugh line which give you more of a mischeivous smirk.

It's coming along so nicely. I'm learning so much just by watching the process. Thanks for sharing!

[Katea]

Thank you Sweetravin :) I really appreciate your comments :)

[Saralyssan]

Something you might want to think about doing would be to sharpen up the detail on the gun. I think it would add a little more reality to it. I mean, if I were stuck in front of a pirate with a gun in my face, I think I know where my eyes would be focused. I don't think it needs crazy detail - just a little sharper maybe than it is now.

Totally love the progress you're making with this. The resemblance is a lot clearer now.

[Ferretking186]

wow, I love this! great job. One thought I had was possibly making the hair a little more messy. not too much or anything, just enough to give it that feel that she did just make some quick snatch of the key or is in the moment of something.

[Katea]

Saralyssan - Quite a remark! I guess a gun is sth I'd be looking at too :) I'll try to do sth about it.

Ferretking186 - well , I just read your comment but I've been actually thinking of changing a hairstyle a bit ;)
The girl is a bit more messy and not so gentle anymore, but maybe it's worth a try. ;) What do you think?

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7406/comp2324.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/comp2324.jpg/)

By the way - if you are interested - I started a new a new WIP! :)

[Scubasteve]

Nice job Katea! Personally I like more sky and less of the boat in the background. Looks good!

[quidditas]

Katea

This thread has been fascinating to watch, but more than anything I'm impressed by how graciously you've taken on board so many critiques and worked and reworked the image so patiently. I learned a lot just by watching your revisions and corrections and experiments, so thank you so much for being so diligent!

I don't have much to add, except that if I have a criticism, it's something in the face. I think the head looks ever so slightly too large for the face (which yours isn't!), and it might be because the jaw looks too deep - as in, too much distance between the lower lip and the tip of the chin. Only slightly. Then again, perhaps the chin just needs more definition? Aagh, it's so hard to tell. This is the difficulty with painting faces; people are so familiar with how a human face looks that the slightest inaccuracy gnaws at the viewer's brain, even if they can't pinpoint the problem. Very unforgiving subject.

Your pencil portrait, by the way, is fantastic. You gots mad skillz.

[Katea]

quidditas - thank you so much for your comment and all the compliments :)

And for the criticism too :) I know what you mean - when painting a human face one may move an eye just a tiny bit and the portrayed person doesn't look like the original. Tricky ;)
I will see what I can do about the chin. Sometimes a small change like one lighter stroke makes a difference. Which is why I spend most of the time painting the face - this one stroke is so hard to find.

BTW I will go for the long smooth hair - I have no reasonable excuse - just that it's me and I want to look pretty! ;)))

[konrad11]

I'll give my vote on long smooth hair;)
You've showed us a lot in this thread.
Very nice work and also steps and options of how you explore in painting process. Inspiring. Thanks!

[bdbros]

I like the glowing one,it adds magical feel to it, a second light source as well

[Brownie3703]

awesomeness. I am super into her expression. its great. only small thing. move that vertical beam going down thats right behind her to the right side of the image away from her a little bit. Good job!

[rownd]

nice work! yes I would put the hair back the way it was or give the dreadlocks more of an interesting shape.

[Katea]

konrad11 - thank you very much :)

bdbros - I've been thinking so too, but then I thought that even though the second light source would be a cool thing it would also spoil the pirate look a bit. I think Echom actually made me go for the key and he was right :)

Brownie3703 - thank you :) Do you mean that I should remove the beam from the sight a bit and leave the rest as it is, or widden the piece? I'm quite attached to this format I have to say ;)

rownd - oh, I went for the long cute hair, such as I would like to have one day (still patiently trying to get there but they just don't want to grow fast enough) ;)
Thank you :)

Oooook... so I'v been thinking that the next time I post my pirate portrait it would be finished but nooo... I can't let go! There is always sth to change. This time I flipped the image and realised how odd it looks. So I changed the face a bit. Then I sort of realised the face and the hand look different in colour? So I put some new light to the face. Man! - a neverending story :arteest: BTW it took me like an hour - no more. I have no time to paint - I can't seem to find some time to finish this piece - or courage - after all it's my autoportrait - and I think I need someone to kick my butt a little to make me do it finally ;)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3739/pirate11.jpg

[Katea]

Oh, and so that it wouldn't seem too easy - I repained the lips, and now I don't know what to choose. :argh: I think I should rename my thread to "Find 10 differences between the pictures" ;)) :beer:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7764/piratecomp.jpg

[rownd]

ok... that hair rocks

[Katea]

Thanks :)))

[Katea]

Another update.
One of my friends told me that the gun looks like one from XIX century so I repainted it. What do you think? I also added some jewelery, but I'm not so sure if I'm going to keep it.

cheers :)

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4598/pirate33.jpg

[Katea]

Ok, does she look too much like a gypsy now? I think I went a tiny bit woohoo with the textures (painted on the basis of some textiles found in google) - they are not done yet ...

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/148/pirate34e.jpg

[DArcy1]

Just a tad woohoo...I prefer the last one - just enough to emphasise her femininity but not so much overkill that you're left wondering how she knew which end of the gun to hold !

I haven't posted on this thread because you've just been cruising along; I did want to drop by today and say what a delightful painting this is turning out to be. Congrats! :bowdown:

D'Arcy

[Katea]

LOL ;) That's an offence you should pay for! - She does know what end of the gun to hold! - the prettier one of course ;)))

Thank you so much DArcy1 :)

[DArcy1]

Anytime :-)

D.

[Katea]

Some small adjustments ;)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6029/pirate36.jpg

[Katea]

And hmmm... another one ;)
I'm not sure if I'll stick with it....hmmm.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1163/pirate362.jpg

[A78]

is looking Great! :applause:
what about add some wind? :)

[Katea]

Are you saing I should make her hair flow in the wind? ;)

[A78]

only if you want , the drama factor!
when someone point at the main character the sky falls! :bounce:

[Katea]

"when someone point at the main character the sky falls!"

I'm sorry, but I don't get it ;))

[Ayro]

I do love the little ship in the horizon. Keep that.

I agree with some wind, but barely any, just some to barely lift the hair. Add some "space" in your painting. After all, you're in the seas. They're windy!

[Katea]

I am so going to overdo it if I start adding wind, but I'll see what I can do about it ;)

[TwoListen]

Two things I notice, the first being there seem to be no shadows cast from her belt onto her clothes. There'd be a small shadow beneath nearly the entire thing, I would think. Small things like that could be looked at.

The next thing that keeps nagging at me is the position of her gun. Pointed downards, it seems like she's holding it very lazily, or that the gun is too heavy for her. I think it'd give off a much stronger feel if the gun was pointed higher and more centered.

[Katea]

You are absolutely right about the bell. I'll fix it. :)

About the gun - you are right she is holding it lazily :) I remember how I was holding my reference gun - I didn't really aim at the photographer's face. I wanted it to look like I am quick enough to do anything I want with it as fast as needed- it also felt comfortable holding it like that without straining my wrist - I don't think it's so important to aim at the face especially that the girl wants to negotiate, and it's far better when the other side doesn't get crosseyes looking at the gun - I guess firing the gun at sbd's chest is painfull and scary enough ;)

Thank you for your comment :)

[Algorithmic]

Hi there, I really like your painting. One thing that's bugging me though is the geometry of the gun, the barrel is pointed farther down than it is to the right so the end of the barrel needs to elongate in the opposite way than what you have. Here's an example:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/barrel.png
you might also want to apply the same principle to the bracelets on her left wrist.
Hope that help :)

[Katea]

OMG, you are 100% right - I haven't noticed that! Thanks! :)

[Katea]

I went crazy with the hair! I went crazy with the hair! I.... ha! :bounce:
Isn't there too much wind for a change? On the face I mean - because I kind of like it how the hair behind her look :)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8901/pirate37.jpg

Or.... there is a version with not so much hair on the forehead ;)

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7940/pirate372.jpg


Both to compare - I think I like the one with messier hair - but it may change by tomorrow;)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8727/pirate37comp.jpg

*morning update - oooook, I have to make it less messy. Last night it looked cooler ;)

[Katea]

Just another version of the hair...

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2711/pirate38.jpg

or...

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9739/pirate39.jpg

[DArcy1]

I prefer the very last one, although perhaps merged with the 1st messy forehead. you'd have to change the sleeve though, that material is so sheer it should be all blown to the left of the image along with the hair. Not convinced you need it though, I liked the no-wind look, it left me with a feeling that since there is no wind, the ship is becalmed, which in the middle of the ocean just adds more urgency to the negotiations. Also not sold on the extra ship, which distracts me from her eyes which to me are the key to the whole image. Feel free to ignore this though !

Cheers

D'Arcy

[Katea]

Thank you Darcy! :)
I have to say I was wondering about the ship too. But I finally decided to go for it because - hopefully - it tells a story. Most probably she is not on her ship, so there has to be somewhere to run after the negotiations are over :)
About the hair - I'm still not sure, maybe I should go back to the no-wind version as you say but add just a tiny wind. Like one strand of hair moving or sth. Because the hair are starting to look like a separate organism, and I thing no matter what I do I make it look worse ;)

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