RobertoOrtiz
05-09-2009, 06:48 PM
Post here any question you may have about our next mini Challenge!
15 Expressions ONE Model
15 Expressions ONE Model
View Full Version : HCR MINI-Challenge #20: 15 Expressions ONE Model FAQ
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vshen
05-09-2009, 09:44 PM
I posted this question on the other thread, sorry for the repeat question. Can you also have fantasy creatures?
WyattHarris
05-10-2009, 03:44 AM
Repost of another question from the last FAQ thread. To summarize, why don't our posts show up in the "Hot Threads" list in the newsletter when many times we have more replies and views than the ones featured in the newsletter?
If challenge threads just don't get included perhaps they could make a new listing in the newsletter for them.
If challenge threads just don't get included perhaps they could make a new listing in the newsletter for them.
RobertoOrtiz
05-10-2009, 04:50 AM
I posted this question on the other thread, sorry for the repeat question. Can you also have fantasy creatures?
Go ahead...
Have fun
-R
Go ahead...
Have fun
-R
TheRazorsEdge
05-10-2009, 06:36 AM
Do all these expressions have to be unique sculpts/sculpt layers or can we build a facial rig with all the appropriate shapes/controls needed to get those expressions?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Nothingness
05-10-2009, 07:52 AM
Do all these expressions have to be unique sculpts/sculpt layers or can we build a facial rig with all the appropriate shapes/controls needed to get those expressions?
Cheers!
I can assume this is aloud since it's not really a sculpting challenge to sculpt all of the expressions. Although with a rig this challenge goes way beyond the hardcore modeling of the face.
But i like it.
I think i'm in. I really have hardly any experience in doing a face and a rig.
Cheers!
I can assume this is aloud since it's not really a sculpting challenge to sculpt all of the expressions. Although with a rig this challenge goes way beyond the hardcore modeling of the face.
But i like it.
I think i'm in. I really have hardly any experience in doing a face and a rig.
WyattHarris
05-11-2009, 02:05 AM
Do all these expressions have to be unique sculpts/sculpt layers or can we build a facial rig with all the appropriate shapes/controls needed to get those expressions?
Cheers!
Something you may want to keep in mind is because it's a modeling challenge some people may look down on a model if it uses a rig instead of everything being modeled/sculpted. Not saying this is the case but you never know.
Cheers!
Something you may want to keep in mind is because it's a modeling challenge some people may look down on a model if it uses a rig instead of everything being modeled/sculpted. Not saying this is the case but you never know.
Nothingness
05-11-2009, 04:48 AM
Something you may want to keep in mind is because it's a modeling challenge some people may look down on a model if it uses a rig instead of everything being modeled/sculpted. Not saying this is the case but you never know.
This is then just like changing every model manually for every frame in an animation. Sounds like 3d stop-motion.
The way i see it, i think it's possible to do rigging on a well-topologized model, and then do a detailing pass on this pose. Whether it's old-fashioned modeling or rigging.
(and people only look at the result and not the way towards the result! I've seen models win without following the exact rules.)
This is then just like changing every model manually for every frame in an animation. Sounds like 3d stop-motion.
The way i see it, i think it's possible to do rigging on a well-topologized model, and then do a detailing pass on this pose. Whether it's old-fashioned modeling or rigging.
(and people only look at the result and not the way towards the result! I've seen models win without following the exact rules.)
TheRazorsEdge
05-11-2009, 06:30 AM
Something you may want to keep in mind is because it's a modeling challenge some people may look down on a model if it uses a rig instead of everything being modeled/sculpted. Not saying this is the case but you never know.
Sure, but for, say a blendshape-rig you still have to sculpt every single shape&viseme that will later be added onto the whole to arrive at the final expression. Even on a spline-based rig you have to model the curves in addition to creating the face. Personally, I dont see much of a difference in workload and/or expertise necessary to get to the finish-line, as compared to sculpting finite expressions (which is not really purely modeling either). In my book, building a facial-rig is still mainly a modeling/sculpting process and not at all a shortcut or cheat. Quite to the contrary actually, there's the added work of connecting everything and making it play nice together.
Let's see what Roberto says! :)
Cheers!
Sure, but for, say a blendshape-rig you still have to sculpt every single shape&viseme that will later be added onto the whole to arrive at the final expression. Even on a spline-based rig you have to model the curves in addition to creating the face. Personally, I dont see much of a difference in workload and/or expertise necessary to get to the finish-line, as compared to sculpting finite expressions (which is not really purely modeling either). In my book, building a facial-rig is still mainly a modeling/sculpting process and not at all a shortcut or cheat. Quite to the contrary actually, there's the added work of connecting everything and making it play nice together.
Let's see what Roberto says! :)
Cheers!
axiomatic
05-11-2009, 06:30 AM
My vote for best model wouldn't be influenced by the method someone used to develop their expressions be it bound skeleton, driven blend shapes, individual sculpts, or some combination of all the above.
Instead I'd be looking at the geometry itself and how well it conveys the emotion. So if a lip wasn't pulled back enough to convey a snarl then that would count against the work regardless of whether it's a result of a chosen method of modelling the faces or not.
Instead I'd be looking at the geometry itself and how well it conveys the emotion. So if a lip wasn't pulled back enough to convey a snarl then that would count against the work regardless of whether it's a result of a chosen method of modelling the faces or not.
WyattHarris
05-11-2009, 08:11 PM
Sure, but for, say a blendshape-rig you still have to sculpt every single shape&viseme that will later
I don't disagree with anything you're saying and I'd be bummed if someone counted my work out for a reason like that. Just something to think about.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying and I'd be bummed if someone counted my work out for a reason like that. Just something to think about.
RobertoOrtiz
05-11-2009, 09:27 PM
As alway keep in mind that we dont require a specific method to do the project.
Like in real life, it is whatever gets the work done, as long as the BASE model is done from scratch.
-R
Like in real life, it is whatever gets the work done, as long as the BASE model is done from scratch.
-R
TheRazorsEdge
05-12-2009, 07:13 AM
Thanks for "heads-up" to Wyatt and for the clarification to Roberto! :)
PrayingMantis
05-12-2009, 06:01 PM
In the rules it is specified that you have to show your references before starting.
What about the case you are using books?
In my case I own the book Facial expression by Mark simon, will I have to take a shot of the expressions I will use, or do I just have to mention that I will use this book?
Thanks
What about the case you are using books?
In my case I own the book Facial expression by Mark simon, will I have to take a shot of the expressions I will use, or do I just have to mention that I will use this book?
Thanks
LeandroSoares
05-12-2009, 06:05 PM
hi guys.
so my question:
may i use a pre-done basemesh to do the final model in Zbrush??
- if have mistakes in my english, sorry- :D
bye!
so my question:
may i use a pre-done basemesh to do the final model in Zbrush??
- if have mistakes in my english, sorry- :D
bye!
RobertoOrtiz
05-12-2009, 07:00 PM
In the rules it is specified that you have to show your references before starting.
What about the case you are using books?
In my case I own the book where you picked the thumbnail for the presentation, will I have to take a shot of the expressions I will use, or do I just have to mention that I will use this book?
Thanks
Do you best
If you cant post reference becuase it is copyrightted material, that is fine.
Just state your reasons for not posting them.
hi guys.
so my question:
may i use a pre-done basemesh to do the final model in Zbrush??
- if have mistakes in my english, sorry- :D
bye!
Your english is just fine.
but I am sorry to say that you
Cant use a pre-done base mesh since we require all models to be done from scratch.
-R
What about the case you are using books?
In my case I own the book where you picked the thumbnail for the presentation, will I have to take a shot of the expressions I will use, or do I just have to mention that I will use this book?
Thanks
Do you best
If you cant post reference becuase it is copyrightted material, that is fine.
Just state your reasons for not posting them.
hi guys.
so my question:
may i use a pre-done basemesh to do the final model in Zbrush??
- if have mistakes in my english, sorry- :D
bye!
Your english is just fine.
but I am sorry to say that you
Cant use a pre-done base mesh since we require all models to be done from scratch.
-R
Nothingness
05-12-2009, 07:20 PM
Do you best
If you cant post reference becuase it is copyrightted material, that is fine.
Just state your reasons for not posting them.
i think posting a photo of the book (obviously a picture and not a scan) can't harm at all. Consider it promotional.
If you cant post reference becuase it is copyrightted material, that is fine.
Just state your reasons for not posting them.
i think posting a photo of the book (obviously a picture and not a scan) can't harm at all. Consider it promotional.
Spin99
05-12-2009, 11:26 PM
Just wanted to ask. Yes I understand that people that have knowledge of facial rigging
might just go that way about deforming a base head.
Knowing about that, is there a point in manually sculpting 15 expressions off a base head?
It seems to me that you can also use sculpted heads as blend shapes for animation?
They only have to share the same topology as the base head?
So, can you consider manual sculpting of expressions for use as blend shapes
a reasonable/professional real work approach?
Or would it rather make this HMC project simply a sculpting exercise.
Something people just wouldn't do professionally?
might just go that way about deforming a base head.
Knowing about that, is there a point in manually sculpting 15 expressions off a base head?
It seems to me that you can also use sculpted heads as blend shapes for animation?
They only have to share the same topology as the base head?
So, can you consider manual sculpting of expressions for use as blend shapes
a reasonable/professional real work approach?
Or would it rather make this HMC project simply a sculpting exercise.
Something people just wouldn't do professionally?
Nothingness
05-13-2009, 07:36 AM
Just wanted to ask. Yes I understand that people that have knowledge of facial rigging
might just go that way about deforming a base head.
Knowing about that, is there a point in manually sculpting 15 expressions off a base head?
It seems to me that you can also use sculpted heads as blend shapes for animation?
They only have to share the same topology as the base head?
So, can you consider manual sculpting of expressions for use as blend shapes
a reasonable/professional real work approach?
Or would it rather make this HMC project simply a sculpting exercise.
Something people just wouldn't do professionally?
Nothing states about HOW you need to do this challenge. So if you wanna sculpt all of those expression, then go ahead i would say. I'm not a rigger but i will go for it.
For example: you could just use a few bones, do a little skinning so that you can open the mouth, lift or lower eyebrows and maybe the nose. Then pose them 15 times as close as it get's, and then start sculpting on them. Or just start sculpting right away on the base mesh.
Either way: it's the result that counts.
I think i rigger will have much more work setting up the rig to make it be able to do anything. Even way more then 15 expressions. But posing them will be super fast and flexible.
Sculpting on the other hand for an experienced sculptor, will take little time to sculpt the expression, but more time to do 15 of them. So in all ways i don't think there is an easy way, but only a choice in path according to your skills.
so relax and enjoy
might just go that way about deforming a base head.
Knowing about that, is there a point in manually sculpting 15 expressions off a base head?
It seems to me that you can also use sculpted heads as blend shapes for animation?
They only have to share the same topology as the base head?
So, can you consider manual sculpting of expressions for use as blend shapes
a reasonable/professional real work approach?
Or would it rather make this HMC project simply a sculpting exercise.
Something people just wouldn't do professionally?
Nothing states about HOW you need to do this challenge. So if you wanna sculpt all of those expression, then go ahead i would say. I'm not a rigger but i will go for it.
For example: you could just use a few bones, do a little skinning so that you can open the mouth, lift or lower eyebrows and maybe the nose. Then pose them 15 times as close as it get's, and then start sculpting on them. Or just start sculpting right away on the base mesh.
Either way: it's the result that counts.
I think i rigger will have much more work setting up the rig to make it be able to do anything. Even way more then 15 expressions. But posing them will be super fast and flexible.
Sculpting on the other hand for an experienced sculptor, will take little time to sculpt the expression, but more time to do 15 of them. So in all ways i don't think there is an easy way, but only a choice in path according to your skills.
so relax and enjoy
Spin99
05-13-2009, 05:40 PM
Thanks Nothingness. Yes making a lot of sense.
Maybe doing a basic rig for starting expressions is a pretty good idea.
So you can open close/mouth move neck move/direct eyes kind of.
Ok see if I can get myself to that stage :\
See how much hampering the power blackouts going to be.
Yes still in Africa hehe.
Maybe doing a basic rig for starting expressions is a pretty good idea.
So you can open close/mouth move neck move/direct eyes kind of.
Ok see if I can get myself to that stage :\
See how much hampering the power blackouts going to be.
Yes still in Africa hehe.
StephanRODRIGUEZ
05-14-2009, 08:59 AM
Hi Roberto,
I have a question regarding my entry (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5864808#post5864808), when you say "from scratch", does it mean from scratch for this contest ?
I'm using a model I did from scratch, (began the modeling on may 6 2009), at the moment no facial shapes nor rigging are done, do you consider this is taking advantage over other contestants, or is it okay with the rules and am I allowed to compete ?
Thanks for your answer.
Regards,
Stephan
I have a question regarding my entry (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5864808#post5864808), when you say "from scratch", does it mean from scratch for this contest ?
I'm using a model I did from scratch, (began the modeling on may 6 2009), at the moment no facial shapes nor rigging are done, do you consider this is taking advantage over other contestants, or is it okay with the rules and am I allowed to compete ?
Thanks for your answer.
Regards,
Stephan
Nothingness
05-14-2009, 09:08 AM
Basically you have to start modeling without using something you or someone else made or started before.
If in case you started the model may 6th, and you worked on it for a couple of hard days, then you are ahead of the other in a certain way. So that's not really fair play. :beer:
If in case you started the model may 6th, and you worked on it for a couple of hard days, then you are ahead of the other in a certain way. So that's not really fair play. :beer:
StephanRODRIGUEZ
05-14-2009, 09:21 AM
In a way you're right, but considering that I'll have some hard days rigging the model (adding a body is optional) and that I didn't model any of the shapes for the moment, my advantage won't count anymore ... anyway, I'll wait for Roberto's answer.
--
--
japetus
05-14-2009, 04:50 PM
Can we do a caricature of a well known person?
REZI-st
05-14-2009, 07:36 PM
Hello, one question, Can I use my old model (which i never done/end) I must finish him (make mouth inside, tongue, teeth) and then create expressions. Is it animal (dog head in my avatar :) mops)
thanks for answer.
thanks for answer.
japetus
05-14-2009, 08:03 PM
REZI, all models must be made from scratch for this competition
littlebangs
05-17-2009, 07:36 AM
Especialy for short hair in modeling part, is it require to create Fur or Texture?
Will it be consider for ranking?
Thanks.
Will it be consider for ranking?
Thanks.
RageOfAges
05-18-2009, 12:35 PM
Hello littlebangs. When it comes to voting, only the mesh itself should be considered, but many people like to use hair/fur and textures to give a "Bump" to their final render.
-Rage
-Rage
Intervain
05-19-2009, 06:56 PM
hasn't occured to me before but considering the categories: interpretation of a known person, cartoon, animal - which category do 'quasi realistic' fantasy characters fall into exactly?
thanks
thanks
RobertoOrtiz
05-19-2009, 07:16 PM
Hello, one question, Can I use my old model (which i never done/end) I must finish him (make mouth inside, tongue, teeth) and then create expressions. Is it animal (dog head in my avatar :) mops)
thanks for answer.
Sorry but all models have to be done from scratch, to be fair to all
hasn't occured to me before but considering the categories: interpretation of a known person, cartoon, animal - which category do 'quasi realistic' fantasy characters fall into exactly?
thanks
I may add a best caricature cathegory
thanks for answer.
Sorry but all models have to be done from scratch, to be fair to all
hasn't occured to me before but considering the categories: interpretation of a known person, cartoon, animal - which category do 'quasi realistic' fantasy characters fall into exactly?
thanks
I may add a best caricature cathegory
littlebangs
05-21-2009, 07:15 AM
In my late entry post of "HMC #20 Expressions : Barack Obama", instead of thumbnail link display, need to display image directly.
Plz give suggestion.
Plz give suggestion.
RageOfAges
05-21-2009, 01:31 PM
Welcome to the challenge, littlebangs.
1-You need to host your image somewhere. ie. photobucket, imageshack, etc.
2-in your reply, you click on the little icon that looks like a mountain. Type in your url. Or, when you host your image, there is often a code that is wrapped with an image tag. You can copy paste that link directly into your reply and your image should show up.
-Rage
1-You need to host your image somewhere. ie. photobucket, imageshack, etc.
2-in your reply, you click on the little icon that looks like a mountain. Type in your url. Or, when you host your image, there is often a code that is wrapped with an image tag. You can copy paste that link directly into your reply and your image should show up.
-Rage
littlebangs
05-21-2009, 01:41 PM
Thank you v.much, RageOfAges..
I'll upload it asap...
I'll upload it asap...
pedroaugusto
05-25-2009, 06:17 PM
Hi, all...i am too late? I would like to participate...Please tell me...
Thx
PA
Thx
PA
Intervain
05-27-2009, 01:40 AM
you can enter any time - the deadline's june 12th [I think] so whatever you do by then's good :) It's about practice more than anything...
JM-art
06-22-2009, 02:54 PM
Hi Roberto, can i ask you when the voting thread will be ready?
Thanks.
Thanks.
TiMrozek
06-22-2009, 03:04 PM
Yes, yes. We are all waiting with bated breath! Who will be the grand champion of facial expressions and thereby, emotion?!
RobertoOrtiz
06-22-2009, 03:12 PM
HMC #20: Expressions: VERIFY your Final Entry (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=773595)
The plug will go live tonight.
Great work guys
-R
The plug will go live tonight.
Great work guys
-R
BrettSinclair
06-22-2009, 04:12 PM
Cool. Was a real pleasure for my 1st challenge. I had a great time. Thanks to all that made it really enjoyable and for all the crits I recieved. Really appreciated.
cheers
Brett
cheers
Brett
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