Whats with the Tests?

[roger]

Rich,
I have heard that many game companies will ask modelers to do a test if they have no game experience.
In fact I was told by a EA rep that they had problems with modelers coming from the movie biz. He said they were not used to the LOW poly counts and because of that, movie modelers would need to do a test.

I don't know if you talked to EA, but if do you might have to take a test for them too. :hmm:

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by roger
Rich,
I have heard that many game companies will ask modelers to do a test if they have no game experience.
In fact I was told by a EA rep that they had problems with modelers coming from the movie biz. He said they were not used to the LOW poly counts and because of that, movie modelers would need to do a test.

I don't know if you talked to EA, but if do you might have to take a test for them too. :hmm:

I wouldnt mind taking a test so much if first we could come to an agreement on what my pay and responsabilities would be if I pass the test.

It's annoying to think that I could blow all this time doing a test and then not be able to accept the job due to where it is located and the pay scale. It may be that such a job is impossible for me to accept, yet I'm expected to blow a large amount of time doing research, and or building a complicated model with all the specifics still up in the air.

I think I'd rather go out and drive pizza delivery. At least I know what my work will get me.

[roger]

Well, being that I have never worked at a game company and never had to take a test I can't offer anymore.
I do agree with some of your points.

[Poopinmymouth]

Unfortunelatly this is a common practice for game companies, and we have the Art Institues, SCAD, RISD, Calarts, and the other art colleges to blame. There is such a glut of artists (mostly underqualified) out there that want work, companies can demand you show up for an interview riding a purple pony, and there would be people who complied. Personally I think expecting an art test from someone who has a great game related portfolio already together, should not have to do an art test. I did not for my game job, but the guy sitting next to me did. I think your body of work should be able to speak for your talent. However, if you do not have Game related work, I think a small (2-3 days or less) game test could be appropriate. In a perfect world, each artist would get a diff artist test, and if the completion was acceptable, the artist would get paid for that model, even if he wasnt hired. Then I could justify the time it would take to complete this test for the company.

It would be like Macy's asking a manager to come manage the floor for 2 weeks (some of the more involving tests could take this long) without pay, to see how they like your management skills.

But the companies want these art tests, so that they can see like 30 peoples work and compare them, then hire the one they like the best. Pretty sad that the market is this glutted that a practice like this can continue.

[Wetterschneider]

Rich,

I think you've answered your own question. Insist on discussing position, time-frame, pay and location first. If you are satisfied with the details, then do the test. A low-poly game test shouldn't, I guessing, take more than a single day to accomplish - if it does, that's good practise and another low-poly piece for you portfolio anyway, so you still come out ahead. You have a ton of great production work to show, and a company would be foolish to pass you up. If you are driven to move into the game industry, I kind of recommend you make up some mini projects for yourself to fill out your portfolio.

Good luck with it all - Scott

[Pinoy McGee]

As mentioned above it's not an uncommon requirement. If truly the applicants have the chops for game art production (where quick turnarounds are the norm) these tests should just be a piece of cake.

A question one of these tests is trying to find out is, can you hit the road running. It's just fair that companies would give these tests to new grads and pros alike. And companies have been burnt by people with flashy reels but who can't back it up with competent work once they're hired.

Don't take these tests as a personal affront. But if you can't compete then, yes, it's no use wasting your time.

[BoydLake]

I've never had to do a test, but before I did one, I'd try to negotiate rights to whatever asset I created as a result of my work. That way, you can at least try to protect yourself from donating free work to their next project. That's the biggest potential exploit of job candidates.

I know it sounds paranoid, but I wouldn't put it past some studios to use this as a way to get free "base models" cranked out in a hurry.

Do the tests include handing over images, or actual scene files when you're done?

It's also kind of lame to say "we've had trouble with film guys using too many polys" since all ya have to do is say "don't use more than X amount of polys for this character." Poor managers NOT specifying limits and parameters BEFORE the job begins happens a lot too.

It sounds like if you want a job in games, it's going to take a bit of an investment to find a good one.

[huck]

Interesting thread, maybe both parties are little bit at fault. There is an abundant amount of new cg artist around today as mention in this thread, some artist I feel unfortunately lack a bit of professionalism …is it any wonder why some of the big companies have outlines on how to submit resumes and reels? I also feel that maybe Human Resources for some of these companies can be improved as I always believed that doing such things as follow ups shows how interested you are in their company, …but encountered rudeness instead, even though there is no mention of ‘do not reply back’( a little lacking in PR skills). I do understand why they would be though, but still its there job in HR. I find the cg industry going in the way of the print industry, too many people in the field and not enough demand which causes a whole bunch of frustration. This field being so popular does mean one has to try harder to catch the eyes of recruiters. Hopefully they will be able to see your great work rich and beyond for the potential that you have.

An investment in an excellent artist can probably manage anything in due time.

By the way, nice website Scott Wetterschneider, your site should be a showcase on how to present online work.

Regards
huck

[RichSuchy]

Not that I have any of these jobs yet but I have an interview coming up with Sony Pictures Imageworks, Dreamworks, and Some folks would like me to do same fur work with Joe Alters ShaveMan (Shave and a Haircut for Renderman), This all came up yesterday.

In the mean-time I Have some 3D tracking in Maya Live to finish up and Light for a commercial. Then if I can fit it in I'll pick some of the tests to do... BUT I have a horse design I came up with that I'd really like to do in NURBS to flesh out that part of my reel.

THen I was thinking it may be a good idea to make a animation reel too.

Doing more models for my reel that replicate work I've already done wasnt in my plans. I guess I need to be flexible.

[ShadowM8]

My instructor was asked to do a test for EA when he was applying! The test was a week long and he had to make a scene sinice he was going for Environment Modeler. It was quite a complex project as far as i saw, but then again i think a week worth of free work is ok if you have a chance to land a job at EA!

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Pinoy McGee
As mentioned above it's not an uncommon requirement. If truly the applicants have the chops for game art production (where quick turnarounds are the norm) these tests should just be a piece of cake.

A question one of these tests is trying to find out is, can you hit the road running. It's just fair that companies would give these tests to new grads and pros alike. And companies have been burnt by people with flashy reels but who can't back it up with competent work once they're hired.

Don't take these tests as a personal affront. But if you can't compete then, yes, it's no use wasting your time.

The difference is this. I am not living in my parents cellar. I've been making this my career for a while now and Sub-D (read as low poly-converted to high poly at render time) character work on a TV schedule for about three years... Yes it is a piece of cake but it still takes time. One request is to model and texture a famouse likeness painting from scratch... And the end result is for high poly final rendering. another includes a full body and head, plus rigging and fine muscle articulation... These are time consuming even for a guy that can model a total human from scratch in two to two and half days.

Again, there is the option of hireing freelance and paying on delivery, should it meet with satisfaction. I suggest game companies hire that way and see if they like what they are getting, but paying for it if it is good work.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by ShadowM8
My instructor was asked to do a test for EA when he was applying! The test was a week long and he had to make a scene sinice he was going for Environment Modeler. It was quite a complex project as far as i saw, but then again i think a week worth of free work is ok if you have a chance to land a job at EA!

do you know what they pay? Redwood City is near to SanFrancisco if thats the ea branch he is working at... SF is an expensive place to live. Did your teacher know what he/she was getting in payment if the tests were satisfactory. You need to know whether it is a waste of time before blowing your time that way. There are 50 or more companies you might apply for. Are you going to do a test for each one? that would take a year. Try doing that while your working and it would take 3 or 4 years.

[RichSuchy]

here's a few questions for all you college students that think your time is worthless. (The college students that don't think that way... get an "a" for business from the teacher) :)

I smile as I ask...

do you plan to have a family? Do you plan to work in this industry when you have a family? Do you plan to spend all your free hours working on reels and tests while your wife goes insane taking care of the kids with no help from you? When you are in between jobs, do you think your experience shouldnt grant you any credit so that you basically have to start over, and take up to a year to land the next gig?

still in a voice lacking malice or bitterness...

If you answer yes to several of the above, and you make your plans based on that thinking, you are creating that future. and you are helping to make the present less equitable for all involved including yourself.

seriously...

Get hired on your ability, not on how cheeply you can sell yourself. You may get the job, but then who wants it under those conditions.

[JesseDavis]

I believe its another way to windle down the numbers. If you won't do it, there is always someone else that will. And that person will end up getting the job. Windling down the number of applicants makes it easier for the company to find the people that are really interested in it, rather than the ones who fill out every application they can get, and thats it.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by m0og0o
I believe its another way to windle down the numbers. If you won't do it, there is always someone else that will. And that person will end up getting the job. Windling down the number of applicants makes it easier for the company to find the people that are really interested in it, rather than the ones who fill out every application they can get, and thats it.

It may also cut down on the number of quality candidates you get. In another thread I heard many people commenting that they never get any good reels at all.

[huck]

I agree, their needs to be some kind of restructuring in the way business is handle for recruiting, I don’t even have time to socialize let alone create test models for a job.

[muckywetnoodle]

I've been wondering the same thing. On one hand, I can see the benefit to asking to put the candidate's money where their mouth is, on the other, if you have demonstrated skills and/or experience this is really over-the-top. I think having specific reel requirements is a better way to weed out who is serious about applying to the company and who is not. If specific reel requirements and demonstrated abilities are not enough, I'd much rather see more companies hire inexperienced candidates on a trial 3 month basis (or whatever seems reasonable) with a clause in their contract stating they would be hired permanently post their 3 month trial. I have gone this route in the past and it worked well. The employee gets paid and a chance to prove themselves as well as seeing how well they fit into the crew; the employer gets the opportunity to see if the candidates are capable of completing the work they need completed and aren't bound to pay massive benefits if the person doesn't work out.

ps-The excuse that "if person A won't do the test, someone else will" is simply exploitative thinking. I spent about 50 hours recently on 2 rounds of tests followed by interviews just to get rejected for other unknown reasons. It's unlikely I'll do this again without a lot more interest and information from the company beforehand. There is a lot more to the application process than simply applying and these things (interviewing, canvasing, reel review, etc.) should already be walked through before making such an imposition.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by muckywetnoodle
I'd much rather see more companies hire inexperienced candidates on a trial 3 month basis (or whatever seems reasonable) with a clause in their contract stating they would be hired permanently post their 3 month trial. I have gone this route in the past and it worked well. The employee gets paid and a chance to prove themselves as well as seeing how well they fit into the crew; the employer gets the opportunity to see if the candidates are capable of completing the work they need completed and aren't bound to pay massive benefits if the person doesn't work out.


Foundation Imageing hired me (my first job in this industry) that way, however I can understand that three months of pay plus three months of time might be a heavy burden on a game company, That's why I suggest, a freelance trial, One model, and if it isnt good enough and timely enough then maybe pay half and don't use it. Or send it back until it is good enough, pay the flat rate and use it but dont hire they guy or girl full time.

[BoydLake]

I'm really surprised at what I'm hearing about how long these "tests" are. Small 1 or 2 day sessions should be enough, not weeks.

Another thing is that who's to say how fair or effective the test really is when you have guys participating who have nothing else to do in a day/week and others who are holding down pressure filled full time work AND doing the tests?

Do they really want the guys who take time off to do tests for other studios? Or what if their current employer forbids ANY work for competing studios, since these tests could fall into that category. There are certainly potential conflict of interest problems here.

I've said it once in this thread and I'll say it again: If you do these tests and hand over assets at the end of the tests, you are working for free, and you are possibly violating employee non compete clauses in your contract if you are working already. That's bad for the industry.

[muckywetnoodle]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
Foundation Imageing hired me (my first job in this industry) that way, however I can understand that three months of pay plus three months of time might be a heavy burden on a game company, That's why I suggest, a freelance trial, One model, and if it isnt good enough and timely enough then maybe pay half and don't use it. Or send it back until it is good enough, pay the flat rate and use it but dont hire they guy or girl full time.

That's a good idea as well, especially if you are in different geographic locations.

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
Foundation Imageing hired me (my first job in this industry) that way, however I can understand that three months of pay plus three months of time might be a heavy burden on a game company, That's why I suggest, a freelance trial, One model, and if it isnt good enough and timely enough then maybe pay half and don't use it. Or send it back until it is good enough, pay the flat rate and use it but dont hire they guy or girl full time.

That's fine if you are not employed under a non-compete clause (most full-time game artists have to sign such agreements).

Otherwise you are probably breaking your contract with your current employer.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Boyd Lake
Another thing is that who's to say how fair or effective the test really is when you have guys participating who have nothing else to do in a day/week and others who are holding down pressure filled full time work AND doing the tests?

Do they really want the guys who take time off to do tests for other studios? Or what if their current employer forbids ANY work for competing studios, since these tests could fall into that category. There are certainly potential conflict of interest problems here.

I've said it once in this thread and I'll say it again: If you do these tests and hand over assets at the end of the tests, you are working for free, and you are possibly violating employee non compete clauses in your contract if you are working already. That's bad for the industry.

good points!

[greekdish]

Rich, I know exactly how you feel. Although my experience is in the 2d world of pre-press and production, I have 10 years experience, great references, etc, like you....and the past year, looking for a job, has been very frustrating.....tests were administered not only with recruiting agencies, but at the interviews as well.....so I was doing tests out of the gazoo....i felt very insulted as well as my refs and years experience should speak for itself. I always did twice as much work as any other employee at any job I worked at, yet thats not good enough nowadays. Well, suffice to say, I gave up graphics as a career now....I now went to work at my family's restaurant as a manager. Its amazing that it had to come to this, but its amazing the level of incompetancy at the management positions nowadays of companies. I know the real reason why the economy is bad in the US....and its not Bush.....but absurd and idiotic management. There is an old Dilbert saying that I find totally true......Promote to management the morons and bad workers, because you want to keep your best and hardest workers, actually working. :annoyed:

Well, at least now Im my own boss, make good money, and have plenty of free time to work on 3d now. I feel very fortunate.....but Im still smitten over the industry. :annoyed:

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by greekdish
Rich, I know exactly how you feel. Although my experience is in the 2d world of pre-press and production, I have 10 years experience, great references, etc, like you....and the past year, looking for a job, has been very frustrating.....tests were administered not only with recruiting agencies, but at the interviews as well.....so I was doing tests out of the gazoo....i felt very insulted as well as my refs and years experience should speak for itself. I always did twice as much work as any other employee at any job I worked at, yet thats not good enough nowadays. Well, suffice to say, I gave up graphics as a career now....I now went to work at my family's restaurant as a manager. Its amazing that it had to come to this, but its amazing the level of incompetancy at the management positions nowadays of companies. I know the real reason why the economy is bad in the US....and its not Bush.....but absurd and idiotic management. There is an old Dilbert saying that I find totally true......Promote to management the morons and bad workers, because you want to keep your best and hardest workers, actually working. :annoyed:

Well, at least now Im my own boss, make good money, and have plenty of free time to work on 3d now. I feel very fortunate.....but Im still smitten over the industry. :annoyed:

10 years is a long time. References arent enough it seems. It would seem that one must work equally hard to build up a networking base, hang out at the functions, etc. In the past couple of years My wife and I had two babies and I always felt guilty attending any functions as that was time away from my family. Now I have come to realize its a legitmate and neccesary part of the job.

As for management... The sympton is that too many people don't understand the basic principles of free markets... the cause is too many socailist teachers in the colleges teaching economics 101.

[greekdish]

Best of Luck finding a job Rich.....btw, I love your avatar....is that Ironman by any chance??? I loved the cartoon, and if its not him, it should be....I think you should sell the design to Hollywood to make into a movie, ala Xmen and Hulk. :thumbsup:

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by greekdish
Best of Luck finding a job Rich.....btw, I love your avatar....is that Ironman by any chance??? I loved the cartoon, and if its not him, it should be....I think you should sell the design to Hollywood to make into a movie, ala Xmen and Hulk. :thumbsup:

Yeah its supposed to be Iron Man. It's from a sketch I did at lunch time one day while working at Foundation Imaging, I took it into photoshop sometime last year and colored it as an experiment. Marvel owns thier characters and so there would have to be a movie in the works and they would have to hire me as a designer... At least some of that is unlikely, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

I'm glad you like it. the full size painting is Below
http://cgsculpt.com/images/ironmancolor.jpg

[roger]

This just goes on and on, and on, and on.....
Get a job Rich and close this!! :wip:

:p

PS - There is talk of a Ironman movie and Tom Cruise might star in it. :shrug:

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by roger
This just goes on and on, and on, and on.....
Get a job Rich and close this!! :wip:

:p

PS - There is talk of a Ironman movie and Tom Cruise might star in it. :shrug:

Tom just doesn't seem man enough for the role. They need someone with a classic hero build, 6 foot 2, well proportioned etc.

I'll do my best to get that job. My interview is tomorrow.

[FloydBishop]

Just because someone has a killer portfolio doesn't mean they are any good with deadlines. The tests prove without a doubt what someone is capable of in a set amount of time.

There is a big difference though between a test and "do this bit of final footage for the finished product for free, and then we'll see what we think".

Good luck on the interview. Iron Man rocks!!

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
Just because someone has a killer portfolio doesn't mean they are any good with deadlines. The tests prove without a doubt what someone is capable of in a set amount of time.

References can give you that information. Calling previous employers is another way. It's not as if it's impossible to assess the performance of a candidate without a test. All it takes is work... and there's the crux of it.


There is a big difference though between a test and "do this bit of final footage for the finished product for free, and then we'll see what we think".


Well, what assurances are being given that "test" work will not be used or developed into a final product? Building data libraries is part of building a studio. Your worth as an artist is maintained by not working for free.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
Just because someone has a killer portfolio doesn't mean they are any good with deadlines.

Good luck on the interview. Iron Man rocks!!

No ... but delivering models on an all CG TV SHow of the quality of Roughnecks: The Starship Trooper Chronicles, and with the accelerated delivery schedule that that show had, should say something just fine. Add to that that a person was kept on all the similar projects at that production house...

All it would take is a call to a supervisor.

[greekdish]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
Just because someone has a killer portfolio doesn't mean they are any good with deadlines. The tests prove without a doubt what someone is capable of in a set amount of time.


Well, I understand deadlines are an issue.....but isnt it more important to have a killer portfolio that shows a fantastic artist, as opposed to someone who produces average results very quickly??? There are workarounds for deadlines (overtime, experience), but not for talent. Not trying to start it up.....but it does go back to an age old argument...what is art, or what classifies an artist?? Just because someone knows Maya and Softimage inside out, doesnt make them an artist.....yet you can still be an artist without knowing Maya or Softimage. Artists can learn Maya or Softimage, but its alot harder going the other way. :shrug:

[thomaspecht]

i'm really surprised at how time consuming those tests are, that are a requirement to get the job. at a gamedev-company i worked for, they had such a test, too - but they only wanted you to take that test if they were unsure if you'd meet their requirements because of lack of proper samples, etc.
lucky me, i was hired instantly ;)

some others i've read about post a sample scene together with the offering - usually a tiny project (walk loop for animators, example texture for 2d artists, etc).

greekdish: if one can't finish his work on time, he isn't suited for a professional career, no matter how good he is. look at games of today: the artwork is often pretty average (or even worse) compared to some pieces that are displayed on cg talk. but who knows under which tight deadlines these results were achieved?

while calling a former supervisor of the applicant might not be an option for the employer: requiring a time consuming test from experienced people sounds rather stupid to me.
i've read some us job offerings and none of them mentioned a test. so they only tell you about it after you took the time to render that updated reel and spent money to send all your stuff?

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by GIJoe
while calling a former supervisor of the applicant might not be an option for the employer: requiring a time consuming test from experienced people sounds rather stupid to me.
i've read some us job offerings and none of them mentioned a test. so they only tell you about it after you took the time to render that updated reel and spent money to send all your stuff?

It's no longer an issue. At least for me. I have been offered my number one pick of jobs as a senior modeler!
I will confirm with who after I get and sign the contract. I am supposed to start next month on the 18th.

Perhaps If this thread wants to continue it gould go in the general discussion area?

[Rumpus King]

Good to hear!

Congrats on the gig, Rich. Have tons of fun!

[famicom]

Ive been asked to do a test brief for a uk company, the work load is immense, 2 fully modelled, textured, rigged characters animated in a number of scenes with a vehicle. Does this sound too much as i also have no guarantee of a position at the end of it and im sure they will use the work in there game.

[thomaspecht]

wow, yes that's a huge amount of work that probably takes weeks to complete. is that a well-known company or some underground-studio that's hiring trainees only to save costs?

[marchmagik]

To many companies have an HR run around. This means a ton of them don’t have a clue, and if you have experience it means you get an art test(so sad). If you have experience and you know your stuff, any seasoned Art Director or Game company that is art driven..And not tech or business driven should be able to look at your work(online port) and be able to tell if you’re a match. I found this to be very true. About a year ago, I had to do like 7 game art tests all in a row, one after the other. It was evil, and took up tons of my time;
and I was not paid for any of it. Didn’t know what the salary was, and had to do the test before I even started to talk about it. The two companies that did not ask me to do a test were headed by badass artists(Game famous). They could look at your work, and tell if it was yours, being you can see a style about most artists. I Interviewed with them and didn’t get or take a job with these companies for various reasons--but Yes the game industry is full of dead weight artist, at allot of companies.
Everywhere Ive worked there is some art staff that should be replaced. So I can understand why allot of them do this. I think companies are also putting artist in the UFC ring to duke it out.. Who is the best...(Brutal)There is also another item for all you artist to chew on. Yes, Ive heard and seen companies rip models from these tests. This may be from an artist that is reviewing them, or has access to some directory internal. So allot of people are getting ripped off. My policy is don’t send your model file. If you do a test. Render it out..and show wire frames.
Screw sending in your real files. They will show up in some game.
I think the 3-month trial period should be standard. That way everyone has to prove himself or herself. and companies can axe you if your one of those dead weights. I also think if you have a good enough art director or lead, they should be able to tell by your work... Just my rant.

And first post on cg talk..

This was a really good post..
Scott March-el professor
:eek: :eek:

[greekdish]

not that im a CGTalk Moderator or anything, but welcome to the message board MarchMagik.....very good first post as well. I also hope you are a college hoops fan as I am by your name. Would be nice to get some sports related 3d going....dont see any of that stuff really....one or two a year I believe. :thumbsdow

well, welcome to the board, and see ya around.

Nick

[spakman]

Originally posted by Wetterschneider
Rich,

I think you've answered your own question. Insist on discussing position, time-frame, pay and location first...

Good luck with it all - Scott

Er, while it would be helpful to game companies to have the propspective employee list their own requirements in paper, along with the usuall job application, and portfolio, demo reel (helps us get a feel for ya), I kinda think you should have other things on your mind when you get that interview.

Frankly, the fact that somebody even gets to test, usually means the company you're testing for rilly dug your reel to begin with. But there's a lot of perpetrators out there, and game production is g*&$d*%M warp speed. (blame the market - I'm just trying to make my way through the universe).

It's hectic having to devote time showing raw data at conventions when I should be on the path. I'm not sure how many film fx houses have to ship their under production work around the world before its been tested for saltiness or not.

It's all about problem solving, risk taking, thinking outside of the box. I wouldn't worry too much about work getting illegally used if one isn't hired. If your stuff is worth stealing, you are worth hiring. It's all about the simplest solution, so ease your minds peeps.

Don't forget, employee testing is a waste of time for us too. We'd much rather get back to fixing our own screw ups or hiring someone could help make that happen.;)

peace all d=^)

[RichSuchy]

I just got back from Siggraph... I was disappointed that I saw no "I'm NOT Spakman" T-Shirts. Maybe next year. ;)

[spakman]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
I just got back from Siggraph... I was disappointed that I saw no "I'm NOT Spakman" T-Shirts. Maybe next year. ;)

Dern it! I was hoping for some pics of the particular BOF crowd sporting that gear. (which reminds me, I gotta get my buddy to get off his ass and make me that "spakman" t-shirt I asked him for. The design's got the name on the front and then the quote on the back "poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." ;)

peace

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by spakman
Dern it! I was hoping for some pics of the particular BOF crowd sporting that gear. (which reminds me, I gotta get my buddy to get off his ass and make me that "spakman" t-shirt I asked him for. The design's got the name on the front and then the quote on the back "poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." ;)

peace

You would have instand recognition at the show and notariety all in one fell swoop. It would be really funny.

[spakman]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
You would have instand recognition at the show and notariety all in one fell swoop. It would be really funny.


That stuff rilly ain't for me, (hence the nick - which has been pretty much blown anyway). But it *would* be funny. I'll most likely only sport them at work - or at whatever event my homeboys' might be spinning at - and there's nothing else clean. But I'm gonna do several colors. :beer:

peace d=^)

[bigjim]

... nice site. I went through it, albeit quickly and I liked the tutorials you've got set up.

And for the illustrations .... nice. I come from an ilustration background myself before I got into 3D. I have to admit 3D has its perks, but nothing beats picking up a pencil and paint brush.

I found your thread particularly informative. Thanks. I'm sorta in the same predicament you were. I have 5years experience myself and I'm having a tough time finding work, inspite of having contacts, networking and completing my own short film.

Have a look at my web-site ..... it has samples of my pro work, short film and production illustrations I did for my short film.

http://www.vfs.com/~m09imre


Any advice you can pass my way would be appreciated.

bigjim

:thumbsup:

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by bigjim


Any advice you can pass my way would be appreciated.

bigjim

:thumbsup:

Well. Right now the big companies have a voracious appitite for specialists. Id put togather a reel that highlights your favorite part of the job and send them out to Imageworks and Dreamworks, as well as other companies you see hireing online. Its the best time to be looking for work in a long time right now.

check on cgtalk, and vfxpro.com, and also highend3d.com

best of luck!

Rich

[Jezait]

Random question: Who know's what the best animation school in the world is.

Feel free to start a new thread.

[bentllama]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
Is this a common practice for game companies. I wont mention names but at least one of them was very prominent. As soon as I told them my reservations the dialog stopped on thier end. So be it.

unless they are desperate, it is common for them to ask for tests.

it shows matching skillset
ablitity to take direction
wanting the job
efficiency in work
work ethic
thought process


it can also be seen as a CYA type of deal too, as many falsify the time they spent on particular items on their reel

[Matt Leishman]

did i miss it in all these posts? Where did you end up getting your job as a senior modeler Rich?

I'm dying to find out!!

[PiXeLPuPPeT]

Well..
I currently work in the Games Industry and have been for 5 years or more.
But im sure if I wanted make the move into the Movie Industry making high quality 3D models for the next cutting edge CG Flick that I would have to show a serious amount of work to prove I could make it in the industry. This work would of course have to be high detail sud D models and various maps all making a render look top notch..... And I just dont have that right now.

I fully understand why someone would ask for a test after looking at your page.
There is no real-time games stuff on your page..
Are you familiar with all their is to know about getting characters working in-game...??

I think they are similar industries yet they both have their own techniques.

I do not mean any disrespect but I find it hard sifting through a bunch of reels that have no Games related materials in them ..
I just wont look at them..
And the ones that do have real-time characters in them that really shine, I will grab these guys and hire them as fast as possible.. Because game artists are hard to find.. Especially game animators .. rare indeed ..



Cheers
Glen

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by sithwarlord
did i miss it in all these posts? Where did you end up getting your job as a senior modeler Rich?

I'm dying to find out!!

If I told you I'd have to kill you...

I'm at Imageworks now! :)

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by PiXeLPuPPeT
Well..

I fully understand why someone would ask for a test after looking at your page.
There is no real-time games stuff on your page..
Are you familiar with all their is to know about getting characters working in-game...??

I think they are similar industries yet they both have their own techniques.

I do not mean any disrespect but I find it hard sifting through a bunch of reels that have no Games related materials in them ..
I just wont look at them..
And the ones that do have real-time characters in them that really shine, I will grab these guys and hire them as fast as possible.. Because game artists are hard to find.. Especially game animators .. rare indeed ..



Cheers
Glen

point made.

I broke into the industry with a single image on the internet when Jeff Sheets (DAVE SCHOOL) formerly of Foundation Imaging saw that and my resume. He asked how long I had been using Lightwave... I told him the truth, two weeks. He diecided that If I could make an image like the one I had on the internet in the first two weeks of owning a 3d program that he would take a chance on me. The rest is history.

The moral of the story is in what to look for in how to determine talent.

I think what is important is a demonstrated ability to learn fast, and the obvious quality of the end result.

My web site is dieing of neglect though my reels have been given a bit more love.

lets be real here, the concerns about making a real time model are no more dificult to deel with than any other constraint placed on an artist in production. In many cases the demands are simply to keep it simple.

[Matt Leishman]

that's fantastic rich, congrats.

now i have another person I can live vicariously through - woo hoo!!
:thumbsup:

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