I Love This Buggy Piece of $*@!!

[Marcel]

I got the same kind of problem 3 days ago. Whenever I tried to pick a shape in the bevel profile modifier, Max crashed.

It turned out to be a bad object: an object called 'Object01' with no vertices, faces or any other properties. Hence, there was no way to select it, except for the 'select by Name' and 'select all' functions.

Some things to try (save first!):

Try merging you objects in a new file.
Try finding out if one particular object makes the scene crash.
Look if all you objects are accounted for, in other words, that there are no objects with a name only.
Try collapsing all your objects.


In my case there was no real connection between the event that made Max crash (picking a shape) and the object itself.

Good luck, and may your problem be solved quickly (it took me 3 hours to find the problem !:annoyed: )

Marcel

[vertex]

I have had this problem a few times in a few different versions, on nearly every occasion it was a corrupt object within the scene as marcel has said, I found a good test was to create a new scene import the offending object in and then see if that scene crashed, if it did I would then create a new scene and import all clean items into it.

To get round the problem of loosing the offending object when I model now I will produce versions of my model as I finish items or hit stages i.e charcter1.max then character2.max etc until I am finished. the extra disc space is no real loss as I can delete them at will.

You could also try sending the file to a Max user friend and see if he/she has the same problem with your scene, that would quickly rule out your system/hardware/etc.

Hope this helps

Vertex

[SpiderMunky]

I've had the same problem. But merging the object into a new scene fixed this.

[3DMadness]

Here was the same thing: same problem and solved with a new file and merge. :)
Cheers!

3D Madness

[edaddy]

your supposed to sacrifice 2 goats, and reinstall 5 times......thats where your problem is

[Joebount]

and you have to dance naked in the street and to display the scaned photos on cgtalk ...
uh uh uh :bounce:

[CANIM8]

:xtreme: HA!

This is what I did 'cause I was tired of :shame: ing with it in Max 4.


1) I exported the mesh from a slightly older save.

2) Imported to Max 3.1

3) Scratched my arse with a rusty nail.

4) Made the sign of the cross on all 11 toes.

5) VOILA! Works so far..no crashy washy.

Thanks for the tips! (Unfortunately ...still crashing in 4 so I'm going to work on it..resave, export mesh again and import to 4.

P.S. You really, really don't want to see pictures of me on this site dancing clothed or otherwise...;)

Canim8
http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/

[xynaria]

Another thing which can be helpful is using the autoback function. Quite why Max seemingly has the lead on the feature enhancing 'corrupt the file heh heh' attribute is a bit beyond comprehension, but they obviously like it or they wouldn't have stuck with it so ardently.
Anyway, sometimes . it's less disturbing in terms of lost editing to go back to the last autosave and redo rather than going back to a previous save or trawling through a heavy scene to find out which object(s) have been corrupted.
A friend warned me that I should put my scenes in seperate folders as sometimes Max could coprrupt all of a folder. I didn't believe him and thought .. yeah.. sure. I now can confirm it both can and does. :)

[Marcel]

A friend warned me that I should put my scenes in seperate folders as sometimes Max could coprrupt all of a folder. I didn't believe him and thought .. yeah.. sure. I now can confirm it both can and does.

I don't think it does. It would be a very strange option for a program to open all files in a directory for no reason but to corrupt them (not to mention that opening some of my files take a long time, I would notice it opening 83 files at 3 min each).

What I think happens is that the object causing the bug is already there but MAX only crashed when you try to load it again. As long as you have the file in memory it ok (until a certain point when it all gets too buggy and the darn thing crashes anyway).

Make a lot of back ups! Thats what the + button in the save window is for!

For a big project my file numbers usually go to 70-80 files. I delete earlier versions if I don't need them anymore. It saved my ass lots of times!

Greetings,

Marcel

[CANIM8]

So what's the process for actually locating and identifying a corrupt Max file anyway? I've never heard of this before.

Me

[Iain McFadzen]

You don't find them, they find you :)

[xynaria]

MMNN I think you might have an explanation there Marcel but it's difficult to work out. I had a 30mb file corupt on me and then all 3 earlier versions in the folder came up as corrput when I tried to load them whereas they hadn't before. as you say, the back up feature is well worth using. :)

[3DMadness]

Originally posted by Iain McFadzen
You don't find them, they find you :)

LOL!! :D
You're right, don't look for those files... one day they will show up... when you're not expecting it and when you don't want it!!
Well... you never want to find a corrupted file... you're the first one who ask for them!! :D LOL!!

Cheers! :beer:

Flávio

[R.R]

I think there are million way to crash max, and I think Max4 still buggy.
Does anyone has the following experience:
-Save you work (a nice piece), and close max, go home, and you can't open your file the next day you go to work, the file corrupted by max itself.
-Character with morph modified and nicely animated with Lip Sync, Max starts to crash everytime you want to render the scene.
- Some visible vertex cannot be selected.
- Biped of course, the great plugin from Unreal Picture.

Hopefully 5 will fix those err.
:buttrock:

[xynaria]

Hopefully 5 will fix those err.

You always have to love people with a sense of humour. :)

[bentllama]

CRASH CRASH CRASH...:rolleyes:

ahhh, delightful MAX...gotta love hobbyist software... :shrug:

[CANIM8]

Hobbyist wha?! :shame: Come on maaaaaaan....!

Please don't start a software war here. I just wanted to find fixes to these random freaking crashes. I'd really like this thread to remain somewhat useful for myself and others.

So far ...I'm still experiencing the original problem ...so i now isolate each max file in it's own little folder. That's the only thing that seems to work for me. It's really bizarre cause this has never happened before...I'm trying to figure out why it would come about so suddenly.

Thanks,

Clay
http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/

P.S..... I love you man!

[SlipKorn]

Come on mod....start following the TOS; you're not supposed to post flame bait in the forums. Max crashes on me on a daily basis, but I'm guessing you're talking more about character studio crashing than Max itself. It's usually the guys who have used Maya for like a year and a half and think they're 'Maya Kings' who come in here and start ragging on the other packages, just because it's the cool thing to do these days. I use both packages (Max and Maya) daily, and while I give the overall nod to Maya, Max has some nifty stuff built in that Maya can't do without complicated tools needed to be written.

:airguitar

SK

[lildragon]

umm have you guys ever heard on sequential saves? like um

maxdontcrashplease01.max
maxdontcrashplease02.max
maxdontcrashplease03.max

e.t.c. e.t.c?

heck by the time I'm finished I have like 30 + saves, and the sweet thing is those .max files compress ever so nicely :)

cheers

[CANIM8]

:wip: Ummmm ..yeah...sequential saves don't do the trick..

Like I said...these random crashes are suddenly happening only in Max and this particular problem has never happened before. The only thing that I've changed when I model is my efficiency and I don't think Max would get pissed and crash on me because my modeling skills are slowly....ever so slowly improving...
Do you?

Is Max just a tempermental B#$%$ that doesn't want to see me succeed? Have I not praised Max every chance I get? Have I not paid attention to Max every night spending atleast 2-3 quality hours with her....er...I mean Max? Max...what's wrong with you lately? I ...I don't know you anymore. I feel that...well....we're drifting apart just like the feet of my biped drift apart when I attempt free form animation. (sniff)...(snorkel) (fweep!)

Clay...

http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/


P.S. ...I love you man!

[bentllama]

For the record I was not flaming at all...or starting a software war. I am entitled to my opinion.
I use MAX daily now...as well as the superior Maya. It makes for an interesting day when you have a tool that bonks on you hourly [MAX] and one that can take anything you throw at it [Maya].

We have had a few very frustrating problems akin to the one you originaly described CANIM8. I do sympathize.

The only thing I can recommend is that in conjunction with MAX, or on any project, you use some sort of asset management tool...like Visual Source Safe, Alienbrain, etc. It might be a pain in the @55 but it has saved my hide more than once.

Good luck in your solution...I wish I could help more...

[CANIM8]

Not a big deal my furry friend. :love:

I just want to find a solution to this so I can spend more of my limited...EXTREMELY... limited time modeling and drawing and far fewer hours doing odd workarounds trying to avoid the infamous random, unexplainable, and almost unavoidable MAX...CRAAHAHAHAHASH! Move mouse on screen BAM! WHERE THE HELL DID MAX GO? .... Raise butt cheek ever so slightly to ease the bloating and gastric tension...KABOOOOM! MAX...GONE! Tweak, turn, pull vertex of perfect anime nipple....SPLOINK! MAX GONE ONCE AGAIN! ...:wip:

I will definitely look into some sort of asset management tool. Especially now that my work is almost at the professional level:rolleyes: I wouldn't want to lose anything..HA!

Seriously..though..thanks for all the replies fellaz. I appreciate the help and advice....(as well as any free software you can send my way..wink wink or a position modeling absolutely anything in the gaming industry....WILL MODEL FOR FOOD...CRUMBS EVEN.)

Clay

http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/

[Iain McFadzen]

Read all about it !!
Modertor In Troll Accusations Shocker
Bentllama was today forced to issue a statement clarifying his position on the Max-Corruption scandal which has had us all gripped for some time now. Opponents of the less-than-straight South American utility animal were disappointed not to hear the full and frank retraction and apology they had been expecting.

Sorry :)

I spent yesterday morning carefully deleting scripts and then plugins one by one in an attempt to nail down an error which was causing Max to crash as soon as it had loaded. After basically returning Max to it's out-of-the-box state without curing it, I decided to take the nuclear option and go for a complete uninstall-reinstall. That took me to lunch. I then spent 4 hours in the afternoon twiddling my thumbs at the company's expense waiting on my re-authorisation email from Autodesk after my C-Dilla decided it didn't want to work any more.

Just had to vent, this seemed like as good a place as any :)

[CANIM8]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iain McFadzen
[b]Read all about it !!
Modertor In Troll Accusations Shocker
Bentllama was today forced to issue a statement clarifying his position on the Max-Corruption scandal which has had us all gripped for some time now. Opponents of the less-than-straight South American utility animal were disappointed not to hear the full and frank retraction and apology they had been expecting.

It's hard to imagine anyone more sarcastic than I am but I think you've won!

Clay
canim8

http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/

[bentllama]

Gee, that was a good one...at my expense. :applause: :applause: :applause: ;)

[CANIM8]

:love:

Bent llama..we love you man.... and all other furry creatures... please don't
be upset..sarcasm is really a defense mechanism..put in place by the
subconscious. Usually due to some childhood trauma (kids used to call me
the amazing mr. fart) or adult trauma (wetting my bed while my wife is
sleeping next to me) .... It's all good....


Clay
http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation

[SlipKorn]

Oh, you must be used to it by now, llama.

SK

[toonman]

Ok. Though I's just share some info...

1. Max cannot under any circumstance corrupt an entire folder of files. If this is what you see, it means that there's an object in there (most likely) corrupting each. The way to spoit it is quite easy. For the ones willing to take the hard path (read: nobile and worthy), merge onto a new scene one object at a time, from the offending file. When you crash during the merge, you've got a winner. For those with maxscript experience, just turn on the macrorecorder and merge everything into a new file. The macrorecorder will start to print the names of the objects being merged. When you get the crash messagebox, check the name of the last object in the list. There's your man (that's how I've done it).

2. I'd also suggest what Ian did. A fresh, full re-install (please REMEMBER to expor your license first...). If the problem persist, switch to SZB drivers and see if it happens. If it doesn't, it's a driver display issue. If it does, boy, this is serious.

I'm no hardware guru myself, but I do know that there's a lot of stuff in a machine than can bring havok if not properly configured. Try all of the above. If you're still having problems, forward me your hardware specs, info on software installed on your system, and the offending file (if it's not to big). I'll check it and ask someone who really knows hardware. Hope you solve it. Cheers!!

[Ivars]

Max cannot under any circumstance corrupt an entire folder of files.

Sure it can!
Or atleast it can corrupt files that worked earlier, without ever being alterd, just by crashing the last save.
I´ve got no clue how it does it.
This actually happened when the graphic-card-fan stopped.

[digital god]

Just wanted to trough in that I crashed Maya, with the help of some Scripts, more often than 3ds max crashed on me :shrug:

[tAstyBITs]

To know Max is to know how to deal with it bugs. Sad but true. Some of the bugs seem so trivial that I can't see why haven't fixed them yet. I hear it has to do with really old source code that was written by progamers that no longer work for discreet, and the new progamers can't or won't take the time to sort out there old code. But don't quote me on it.

Over the years I've kinda developed a check list of things to try when max starts to give you some problems. I hope you might find these useful.

Fix #1) if a file is corrupt it's most likely a single object in the sence with some corrupt data. Toonman was right on the nose with his help. In a new/empty scene try to merge objects from your corrupt file. I've never tried the macrorecorder approach but it sounds like the best thing. I merge one at a time or halfs at a time. Halfs goes faster than one at a time if you have alot of objects,halfing can be a fast way to isolate the corrupt object.

I recently got a object where if I tried to convert to a edit mesh or attach another object to it max crashed. What I have found is it wasn't that the entire object was corrupt but a face or vert has aquired some maligmant data. In other words it is usually one vertext or one face that is bad not the whole object, but because it's bad it effect the whole object. There are four different things you can try to fix this type of problem.

Fix #2) go to subobject poly's, select all the faces and detatch them. After you detach all the faces in a object you are left with a 0 face, 0 vertext object. Go out of sub object then delete it. Check to see if the new object you created is problem free. Sometimes this gets rid of bad data associated to your object.

Fix #3)reset xform. collaps the stack and then do fix #2.

Neither of these helped me with my problem I reciently had but often at least in max 3 and max 2, fix 2 and 3 they helped fixed most object issues. I think what happens when you work on a object and your attaching and detaching faces, welding stuff, collaping the stack and such, the object start to get lots of extra data and through a bug gets unstable with corrupted data. resetting the xform or detaching the faces and deleting the original object is a good way to clear out that extra data. Sorry I don't know what that data might be that crashes a object, maybe some out there can answer this question.

To fix the problem I was having I had to isolate out of the object the faces that had bad data. This brings me to;

Fix #4) go to subobject poly. select half of your object and detach the faces. With my problems if I tried to detach the bad data max would crash so I had a 50/50 chance of crashing max everytime I detach half the poly's from a object. If you have a succesful detachment then save your project. Now I've narrowed my bug to half of my object, go into to subploy's and select half again and detach. everytime you have a succeful detachment save your work. Eventrually you'll get down to a small number of faces that crash max. If you can just delete the object and rebuilt it. I did this to solve my problem because I had to, I didn't have any back up and I invested to much time and I couldn't afford to go back and rebuild the corrupted object.

Fix #5) Sometimes it helps to export you scene or a selected object to a .3ds file and then import it back again. If you work at a video game company it's important to reset xform or export/import your object before you turn your work over to the programers. Also I'd recommend clearing object data before you do your mapping.

CANIM8- I think your out of luck. only fix #1 can help you. If I where to guess you might of had issues with that object before, but because you didn't do anything to clear the bad data it got worse and worse to the point that just selecting the object crashed max. The only thing I can think of is getting a hold of PolyTrans and try to convert the .max file into a .3ds then import it back into max. I've never used PolyTrans but it should do this. Also there might be other programs that convert file formatts out there so check around.

I have to say even after dealing with all the max bugs I really love working with max. I played with lightwave, and maya a bit and I still think max is best modeler out there, but that's just my opionon.:wip:

[CANIM8]

:p I fixed it....THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP!

I finally went back to two earlier saves...exported the mesh before it had a chance to crash...imported to 3.1...checked and rechecked mesh for gremlins and misc. anomolies....exported mesh and imported into Max 4.1. WWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...!!! It's working and I'm backing that baby up every couple minutes.

This is what I went through all of the trouble for....don't laugh..plz..it's a WIP

http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/images/DEMONWIP.bmp


Love you guys!!! :bounce: :bounce:

Clay

http://home.nc.rr.com/claysanimation/

[visualboo]

I'm willing to bet that your crashes are a hardware issue. I think that plays into it more than most people think so they blame the software.

I use max everyday and max almost never crashes or corupts files on me. Everyonce in a while it will crash but so does Maya. :P This is my whole thing on that... If it was the software, it would crash and be really unstabe on every workstation. It isn't. It's a select few people that have bad reliability problems.

[Kaos]

yeah, this all sucks....

i was working on a deadline project, tight deadline, big model, big machine, max 4.2.9, CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH CRASH

I eventually found that it was the camera that was crashing my scene, yeah, really, the bloody camera.... the reason (i think) is that after modelling and texturing and setting up the cameras for the scene, i needed to composite it into another scene, and rotate it, so i selected everything except the footpath, and linked these objects to the footpath... i then needed to move the footpath a tad, so i selected everything and broke the link.... cameras don't seem to like having a link broken......

[visualboo]

That's exactly my point. I'm guessing that it's your hardware setup and that's making max run sketchy.

Camera's dont make my system ever crash :D

[frog]

At the risk of stating the bloody obvious: some people think they can run Max on win 98 or win ME :shame:

Personally I find it Max quite stable, but if you ever try and run it on a 9x version of windows you won't be a happy bunny.:thumbsdow

[Iain McFadzen]

I've run Max on a variety of hardware configs (all well above Discreet's stated "minimum spec", on Win2K, NT4, and XPpro, both at home and at work, and it has been an unstable peice of bug-ridden crap on any scene of even medium complexity, every single time.

It's a shame cos I actually like the way it works, when it works.

[STRAT]

personally speaking, i must be honest i've run Viz R1, 2 & 3 on NT/W2000 pc's for years with rarely a crash.

infact the only crashes that come to mind are usually down to dodgy plugins.

but thats just in my experience.

i'd wager it's down to the actual configuration of your hardware.

If not, then chuck max in the canal and buy viz :thumbsup:

[Iain McFadzen]

Strat: doing architectural pre-vis renders and doing character animations with complex rigs and effects are hardly the same thing, and if you need to use a plugin ("dodgy" or not) then you need to use it, there is often no way around it. It has nothing to do with hardware configuration or anything else, it's just Max's shitty data handling.

[Marcel]

A few days ago I realized that EVERY scene I made in the last few weeks had a corrupted object in some stage, causing MAX to crash.

I'm a real Max lover, but I seriously think about switching to another application, mainly because of the stability.

Max is just too bad with large scenes.

The thing is that I love the program, I really like the speed with which I can model!

Marcel

[Chico]

I love Max dearly ... But PixelFuk Is right...
To know Max is to know how to deal with it bugs.
Ive been using it for some many years now and I must say that 4 is pretty damn unstable...NOw I use this software everyday, and I occasionaly have a crash or two ... nothing serious...autobak is my friend, as is incremantal saves..and recover saves

However all I do is modeling texturing and rendering. On the other side of the room the is a sad stressed little man who does all the rigging and animation...I surprised he even comes into work these days....(Last thing he said yesterday was about becoming a checkout chick at the local supermarket).

This poor fellow has max crash constantly...he has an identaical system to me and these files do the same on my comp. These crashes also range from easily recoverable, to back to square one. Hes done everything possible to counter this...removed all plugins and macroscripts etc..

Now you could say.."does he know what hes doing..?" well yes, hes been developing some really impressive riggs and various other character setups. These are getting quite complex. It seams that max just starts to fail when you push it that little bit more. Hes based alot of his riggs on ToonMans charatershop tuts and developed them alot further for our needs.

This just is really stupid...for the price of max you should be able to get a 95% stable piece of software. This hinders our production conciderably, and we spend too much time sorting out riggs and setups, that the animation at the end gets sacrificed.

Our solution...???
Well in the courier last friday, Lightwave arrived. Already hes found alot of support for some impressive rigging solutions. ANd if at the end of the day LWave isnt the best solution...then Messiah. BTW to buy both of these is still wway lees than the price of Max without CStudio.

Im really loosing faith in max...Its expensive, Lacks features, the most unstable...

The few days we have been looking at lightwave we have been really impressed...they have alot of features that some say are buggy...but hell they have them..! thats alot more than Max has...It would be out of character for discreet to release 5.0 with a complete feature set free of buggs. If they have half the things we want in 5.0...they wont work half as good as they should till 6.0 and hopefully be polished off in 7.0..

I dunno...aye..I really really love max....:love: ...its my comfort zone...but I think we are going to have to loose it soon..I pray the discreet shorts its $h!t out in 5.0

[Chico]

BTW...We are not using ME or 9X....why would ppl do that..???
Only use 2k cause of USB and a few other hardware things;)

[LFShade]

Max is indeed a funny creature. It's the one program I know that crashes more as you become more proficient with it. Following my theory, a true Max expert can barely get past the splash screen:D

How many of you guys have run across these undocumented tools cleverly hidden behind the buttons in Max:

- Select and crash
- Non-uniform crash
- Maximize (memory use)
- Auto Jack-up
- Render (system useless)

and my personal favorite:

- Save as...corrupted file



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Chico]

Max is indeed a funny creature. It's the one program I know that crashes more as you become more proficient with it. Following my theory, a true Max expert can barely get past the splash screen

LOL...That will teach them for letting customise the splash screen I guess.

Try this some time, replace your "Ctrl" key or "alt" key with the "windows" key. It increases you chances of crashing 90%.

Also the guy I mentioned with the rigging issuses...Is currently suffering from the "Create Box and Crash" and ocasionaly the "Create Plane and crash"

[sam]

Chico,

Well, if your friend is having "Create Box and Crash" problems, I think that the nature of his problem likely does not lie in the 3ds max software itself.

I think the programmers would have ironed out any "Create Box and Crash" problems before shipping Max, don't you think?

At least, I would be heavily, heavily suspicious of a non-3dsmax related issue. And I do mean heavily.

I use Max daily and encounter problems with it very rarely. Whenever I have encountered a problem I go through an exhaustive troubleshooting procedure and the problem almost always points to a hardware issue or a (non-Max) software issue.


Basic troubleshooting procedure . . .

1) check for video card issues -- run 3ds max in heidi mode . . . if the problems vanish you have a video card related issue, often it's a bad driver (maybe those beta drivers leaked from Nvidia are a bad idea after all! )

2) check for ram issues -- a bad ram module will cause crashes in max. Run memtest at www.mushkin.com/support on each memory dimm INDIVIDUALLY.

3) check for temperature issues -- use a motherboard temperature monitor or go into your bios and make sure everything is running at appropriate operating temperatures. Most of the programs on your computer do not cause a rise in the operating temperature like max does. Max could be the program pushing your computer over the boiling point.

4) check for psu issues by stripping down the workstation to a bare essentials configuration and see if the problems go away. If they do, try a better power supply (Antec or Enermax are good).

5) run max without any plugins -- if the problems go away then you have a plugin giving you problems. Free plugins are notorious for causing problems with 3ds max. Load them up one at a time until you find the culprit.

6) check whether any software that is running along with max is causing any probs. Software firewalls and Anti-virus programs are frequent culprits. NAV 2002, for example, caused Max to crash seemingly randomly. Norton has since fixed this error but I will bet a lot of people blamed Max for the error. Silly people.

7) It can be a good idea to do a fresh OS re-install and re-install of 3ds max and then see if you have eliminated the error. Oftentimes a computer can accumulate junk software or registry settings that cause instability problems in high-powered programs like Max. If Max runs fine after a fresh reinstall blame Windows (Curse you Bill Gates) and try to keep your workstation computer absolutely clear of non-essential programs. It is also a good idea to make a backup of a perfectly running configuration.

8) If you get to this point and you have still not isolated the error you may be experiencing an actual bug of the software. Check the Discreet 3ds max forum for users reporting similar issues and if you find no one reporting your error, contact technical support or fill out a bug-report form. They are there to help you.

Max is a very powerful and demanding application. If your hardware or configuration is not up to the task it will let you know. If you have dodgy ram, a heating problem, a psu problem, software, or a video card problem, Max will let you know. If you assume that any crash in Max is caused by Max and simply growl at the software then you will be a very unhappy user of Max or any 3d software for that matter, because ram, video card, psu, and heating problems happen often enough. Assume rather that Max is not the source of the problem and try to resolve the issue by following the steps above. You might be surprised at how happy a user of Max you become.

cheers
Sam

[Chico]

Thanks Sam, these are all very good points..

The create box is honestly a random error hes been getting once he gets to a point in the rigging. ig you want a matte for some reason or another it will crash when he makes a box.

Its just really anoying...we pay alot of money and it really hurts. Ive never seen this sort of problems with anyother software (Maya, Lightwave) You end up spending more time troubleshooting than doing anywork.

I do also visit the discreet boards and participate there on a daily basis.

Like I said..Its realitvly stable for me....It just seams that the more you push the more it pushes back. If trialing lightwave proves to be more stable then lightwave it will be.

But you do have some really good points about hardware etc...we'll definatly look into these...and unneed programs....goodbye RTCWolfenstein and Quake:hmm:

Thanks

[L0rd]

Dear Agony Aunt

I love max, even though I'm now on Prozac, keep a bottle of bourbon and a large supply of painkillers in my desk draw, can sometimes be found dribbling in the corner of my office in a fetal position, and have regular psychotherapy.

I used to have friends, but since Max I spend most of my waking(and often sleeping) hours avoiding, making up for and cursing at, what to me are plainly issues that Max has with any scene, object or project that I've been working on for more than a few of days.

I've tried all the solutions put forward on this thread, sometimes it fixes the problem, but usually only temporarily.

(Imagine you've finished modeling, you've textured, refined and built a complex rig, you've nearly finished skinning, it's thursday, it's not a big job, but you've got till monday's deadline to figure out why your file is crashing, fix the problem, keep your cool and produce the first pass of the animation, while keeping the client happy, and not be the kind of person who wants to come across as excusing the delays of the project on his expensive tools. While the thought goes through your mind that maybe there is no simple solution to this problem and that in half a weeks time you may well be going to be looking for work in a super market stacking shelves for a living.)

The conclussion that I've come to is that Max is a tempremental and abbusive lover, and maybe it's time for a devorce no matter how much I love it.

There are far less expensive or time consuming ways to make my own life hell.

I am so happy now that I've had this opportunity to let all of this out...
Thank you Canim8 for starting this thread, I hope you survive your relationship with Max.

PS it went on from the occasional "create plane and crash" and frequent "create box" and crash, to "create anything and crash."
and that's not in a fresh clean scene, that's quite some way into a project.

:annoyed: :surprised :scream: :annoyed:

[L0rd]

Hmmm..
Perhaps I should get our technical department to look into the hardware configeration on my machine......
That's if I don't get to it first with my desk chair!

I have done extensive 3rd party Max Plugin removal tests to no avail.

I do love Max as I know many others do as well. If it really is a hardware issue or other software causing the problem I'll be overjoyed (Unless it's Photoshop or After Effects, maybe it's Windows 2000?). But I have to admit that I'm a little dubious.

Now where's that technician gone?

[tAstyBITs]

Wow these are some stories. I feel for you honestly, I've used max since it was 3ds R4. I've had to stuggle with it's quarks for quite some time, and sometimes they do get me so pissed I start to look at other programs. But when I try another programs I learn that I like max better. What can I say I guess I'm a old dog.

Chico- if the crash your friend has shuts down the machine completely then I'd say it's a possible video card problem. I was getting max video card crashes that would shut down my machine and it would always corrupt the file I was working on. I updated my bios, motherboard, and video card drivers and the video card crashes are now very rare.

[L0rd]

Hey pixelfuk, and others, being Chico's friend I can honestly say that the only thing that crashes on my machine is Max, and it never takes my machine down with it.

[sam]

Lord,

I think though that you are jumping to conclusions about Max.

Even when a problem arises and Max is crashing its best to be as strictly logical as one can be with troubleshooting. Its important to break things down into a diagnostic procedure and avoid generalizations.

Your conclusion that Max simply craps out when the going gets complex is not all that tenable. Plenty of companies like Blur use Max to generate complex scenes for productions far more extensive than yours. Max is proven in production. And, as far as I know, Discreet works with companies like Blur to help beta test and guide the development of the software. The problem is of course that no matter how hard they try Discreet or any 3d software company cannot account for the entire diversity of uses or systems that all users might potentially put it through.

So, to figure out your problem, you should try to isolate what you or your environment are introducing to your situation.

A couple of things to consider . . .

1) Complex scenes tax your computer. If Max craps out regularly whenever a scene gets complex you might suspect a ram issue, a mobo issue, or a video card issue. A complex or heavy scene puts your computer under a heavy load and it could be finding some weak points. A quick way to test this out is to load your scene on some other computer (a stable and powerful one ideally) that has Max on it to see if the problem persists. If it doesn't then there is something going on with your box.

2) You may be habitually hitting the same bug. For example, if you always rig a character the same way you might always be triggering the same bug in the program. To help figure out if this is what is happening, save a different copy of the program each hour or so as you work on it so that you generate a history record of saved files. Then, when you come across a problem you can backtrack and check files to see where the problem seems to be introduced. If for example you find the problem comes up shortly after you rig a character using a set of wired parameters you might try using dummies and expressions instead as an alternate rigging method. It is frequently quite possible to isolate a bug this way and then find a workaround for it and report it. Since you dont quite know what is causing your problems for all you know it could be exact same bug. To throw aside Max over a single bug with an easy workaround would be silly.

I've worked on Maya and I have friends who work on LW. The grass is no greener on the other side, believe me. Bugs are a part of every 3d software. Maya and LW can be just as frustrating as Max with some of the bugs they come up with. Although some programs may have better quality control over others and get shipped with fewer bugs, all programs will have bugs. On the whole I have been happy with the shipping quality of 3ds max.

The important thing is to try to isolate the problem and get to understand the problem. When you fail to understand a problem its easy to make a hasty yet unsubstantiated generalization, like program X is a piece of @#$!

Even when you aren't a beta tester it is a good idea to act like one and do one's best to isolate problems and provide the programmers feedback by filling out bug reports.

cheers
sam

[Iain McFadzen]

Sam:

No offense, but I get really sick of people like you trying to defend Max by arguing that it's usually something else which is causing the instability. You are basically saying "if you are having problems with max then it's most likely your fault for not knowing how to work around them or avoid them", which is a little insulting, frankly.

Your troubleshooting procedure is sensible and thorough, I know this because it is almost exactly the same as my troubleshooting procedure, but the simple fact that you know that procedure so well you can write it down suggests that you have more problems with Max than should be expected.

If you have a number of systems with a number of different 3D apps installed and you only get regular problems with Max then it is Max which is the culprit, no matter which one of your troubleshooting tricks actually solves it. If Max is more sensetive to RAM problems than Maya on the same system then that is a problem with Max. If Max is more sensetive to vid driver problems than Maya on the same system then that is a problem with Max. If Max is more sensetive to OS degredation than Maya on the same system then it is a problem with Max.

Yes of course other apps have bugs, and yes of course it is possible to produce highly complex animations using Max, but that just isn't the point. The point is Max is significantly less stable on scenes of comparitive complexity than any of it's closest competitors, and until Discreet get their collective fingers out and re-write the old girl from the ground up (instead of introducing a whole raft of further instability every 18 months with each new version) it will continue to be a bug-ridden peice of crap and users who have been stung by it will continue to complain.

[L0rd]

I've experienced nasty problems with poly modeling, at some point max decides that my model no longer complies with Max's strict regulations. That's preanimation or prerigging and the objects arn't that complicated 9146 faces, It's not like I'm using a 486.

I've experienced problems when I start wiring my rigs with custom attributes. That's one rig I'm dealing with here not an army. I've even tried exchanging wiring with expressions instead, which had almost instantaneous problems. It's not like I was trying to make mathimatical breakthroughs or anything, a simple this equals that expression driven by a slider is sometimes enough to cause max to roll over and choke. No joke.

OK so it's not as simple as a single 6 polygon box being rotated by a custom attribute controlled expression. But neither is it a "Lord of the Rings" battle scene!

It's not all the time though, I have to admit, and I have had some really good times with Max too.

[LFShade]

I have to align myself with Mr. McFadzen on this one. I have enough knowledge and experience with computers to keep my system well-tuned and (generally) problem-free. I work back and forth between Max and Maya on the same system, often dealing with the same scenes. I experience crashes in both packages, but the ratio is probably something like 10 Max crashes to 1 Maya crash. My scenes never get corrupted in Maya, as they sometimes do in Max. While these crashes may ultimately be the result of software or hardware processes outside of the 3D application, it's obvious that Maya handles those errant processes with much more grace in comparison to Max.

Fault-intolerance is a bug!

[sam]

Iain,

Sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone.

I only wanted to make a few points.

1) When a problem arises with a 3d program and you do not attempt to isolate the problem, it is impossible to accurately generalize the cause of the problem.

2) Due to the nature of 3d programs, a very high proportion of problems that may seem to arise from the 3d program itself may actually be caused by issues outside of the 3d program.

3) The importance of a sensible troubleshooting procedure (see previous post), quality components (ram, mobo, psu, cooling), and sensible computing practices (like keeping your workstation clear of junk programs).

If you follow a sensible and thorough troubleshooting procedure when you have a problem with a 3d program and the issue remains unresolved at least then you can reasonable state that the problem is likely originating within the 3d program since your troubleshooting procedure helped to rule out the other suspects. And, if you follow the above guidelines and experience more unresolved issues with Lightwave than with, for example, 3ds max, then its a reasonable statement that Lightwave is less stable than Max (the statement could still be wrong but its likely to be correct). But, without a sensible troubleshooting procedure there is a high likelihood of coming up with the wrong conclusion about what is going on.

Consider: A system might have Maya and 3ds max installed on it, and the proportion of crashes Max to Maya may be 10 to 1, it might seem reasonable to state that Max is less stable than Maya. However, if that system had an earlier version of Norton Antivirus 2002 installed on it then all of the crashes of Max could be accounted for by a bug introduced by Norton Antivirus 2002 and not by any 3d program. Since Norton Antivirus is a very popular program you can imagine that its past incompatibility with 3ds max may have led to several disgruntled users of 3ds max. Max was crashing seemingly randomly with Norton Antivirus installed on it and the problem would not affect Maya or any other 3d program. Is it fair to blame Max for a bug introduced by Norton Antivirus?

You would almost have to have system X with a clean fresh install of Windows and only Maya on it and compare that to an identical system Y with a clean fresh install of Windows and only Max on it and then do side-by-side stability tests on it. Otherwise other variables creep into your conclusions and affect the accuracy of your claim that Maya is stabler than Max.

Of course that is being very exacting about the process of testing for stability. If you have implemented a sensible troubleshooting procedure, used quality components, and practice sensible computing, and Max is still on the whole more prone to crash than Maya then, again, you can state with reasonable accuracy that Maya is more stable than Max. I just know that the actual proportion of 3d artists who do indeed implement all of those things is not very high. In that situation, people's perceptions tend to get distorted excessively by the marketing hype surrounding 3d programs rather than reflect the actual reality.

cheers
sam

[Iain McFadzen]

Sorry, but I'd rather do some actual work rather than spending all my time troubleshooting problems in an effort to convince myself that it's not really Max's fault. Apparently you wouldn't, so I guess your job at Discreet is safe for now :p

[LFShade]

sam -

I can appreciate that conficts arise with certain configurations of hardware and software. I can understand that not all Max crap-outs are the result of the program directly. But running Max in a vacuum isn't usually an option. Regardless of the origin of the errors that cause Max to crash, it is inarguably far less stable than the many other programs I use, all else being equal. A program not designed to handle common issues with the target operating environment is a poorly designed one, at least in one important aspect. It needs to be able to run consistently!

Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big fan of Max from a workflow, feature-richness, and ease-of-use standpoint. I just have this one big problem with it...

[pappuftp]

well i say!!..:annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:
for a software which is the most widely used( discreet claim . not mine!..its users are the most abusive i have seen for any 3d app..
rare to see a lightwave/softimage/maya user being so complaining about their respective software.. all i say to those ppl is .. well go ahead .. use maya if its feature set makes ur life all hunky dory and trouble free.. we have enuff problems in our life to have the time and the energy to have software related grief.. leave max to those who love misery!..sheesh 2 yrs of max usage and i rarely came across a problem(which were rare too) that was entirely max related..but it seems that max is quite choosy about it users!!..and i am glad i am on its right side...:p :p :p

let those who worship mayas might!!
beware my power; max lanterns light

( crap i know... ):applause: :applause: :applause:

[tAstyBITs]

I want max to be stable, I don't like dealing with bugs, I want to have lots of stuff on my computer. I'll say that as the years go by and the 3d software become more developed all the packages will have all the features you need. But the software that works the best and is the easiest and cheapest to develop for/with will come out on top.

[ilasolomon]

microsoft's windows' are the most buggy OS' in the world, they are the most popular, too!
discreet 3dsmax is the most buggy 3d app (people say), it's the most popular 3d app ever.
it seems people love these buggy piece of [s.h.i.t]s!
2x2=4
users=bug builders

[L0rd]

I figured it out!

I've just spent the last 24 hrs troubleshooting as suggested.

This is what I descovered.

A: First of all, slowly strip your scene back piece by piece, remember we're looking for that oddity that is causing the problem here, so we must be patient. Start from the end (that is the last thing you added to your file), and work your way back to the beginning, somewhere along this path you'll find the culprit.

B: What's to say there arn't multiple culprits, they may even be breeding.

C: When you reach your geometry, having removed all cameras, lights, helpers, wiring, custom attributes, expressions from your scene, the IK chains the bones they'll have to go too, remove each object as well. Now try exporting each mesh object as a seperate 3ds file, Shame if it's three quarters of the way through a highly detailed nurbs model for the next ferrari ad campaign. and reimport them back into a brand spanking new scene one at a time. Try pulling your meshes apart and then stitch them back together if nothing else it will improve your modelling skills.

D: Now incrementally save your scenes, not with good old english digits but using the greek alphabet. (It occured to me at about three in the morning that this would be a good idea. When I reach Omega I might try cantonese.)

E: Now re-rig, avoiding anything that even looks like it may cause problems. No custom attributes, no wiring, we'll stop at rigging the neck and spine with expressions, and we wont use anything but good old Dummies and point objects (I had to think about point objects for a while, they're awefully sharp looking.)

F: After you've done all that and you've quit out of max, uninstalled all other software(how dare they conflict with Max's supreme code!) and rebooted several times just in case there's some conflict going on with the Microsoft certified Sound Card or the coffee machine, open the box up and stick a fan in there, remember all this is hard work and you don't want Max sweating last weeks binary code in you're dimm slots.

G.2.5 The rest, safer to do it as old fashioned as you can.

H: Avoid the use of any plugins, especially if they're incredibly functional.

Hey guess what, no crashes! Well no more than say Maya or lightwave.

"An error has occured and Max will now crap all over your work, sleep with your wife while your still at work trying to recover what you can from your files, ring up the client to get them round imediately, and paste rude post it notes in the toilets detailing the sordid history of your bank balance."

Remember, you or the person you work for didn't shell out the small layby for a sports car, for any kind of advanced features that may or may not tax the operating system and hardware setup you or the person you work for shelled out the better part of a holiday in club med.

By the way, other than occasionally lighting a chrome sphere on a checkered floor with an omni. What do you avid supporters of Max (We love it dearly) do with yours?

I hope you're all having a wonderful day.

Cheers,

Lord of my own personal hell.

[Chico]

I must say that Lord, You are a sad twisted little man....

I wonder why.?:hmm:

[pappuftp]

well, duhh. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . i spend 3000$ on a buggy piece of software that can only make omni lighted chrome balls!!( and a few other obscure stuff).. boy am i a sucker or what!!.. next time i see teh discreet reseller i am going to drag him, kicking and screaming , to u guys.. or hey wait!!.. blur studios .. yeah those would be the guys.. perhaps u would knock some sense into them. how dare they go about making such wonderful stuff using such a crappy omni lighted chrome ball making good for nothing else piece of buggy 3d software..honest.. i wonder if they have a lightwave or even a maya (lets not bring xsi in here. poor thing has problems enuff as it is ) shoved in one of those work stations of theirs.. yeah .. that could be it..

or else if all fails.. balme it on the os!!:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[L0rd]

OK, OK, it's all my fault, I wont even bother trying to blame our technical department, come to think of it I havn't seen them around here since Max 4 arrived. Wonder why?

Honestly though I used to think the lightwave I was forced to use was a crappy hunk of dog turds long ago when I crawled up from Ray Dream Studio, Infini D and Strata, I was quick to embrace the ever popular Max, but looking back, in my ignorance I don't recall ever saving incrementally in lightwave or even knowing what an autobak was let alone use one until Max. But the only thing that caused Lightwave to crash in my memory on whatever Mac OS it was running on at the time, was when I went to resize the viewport window and I happily blamed it on the hardware. Surely being as ignorant as I was, I was bound to create plenty of crash causing situations one would think.

Now I cringe each time I drag the mouse reluctantly to Max's .exe shortcut.

I reluctantly return to my chores.

[CANIM8]

:eek:HOLY MARY..MOTHER OF GOD FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH.....er..something like that!

**************Just for the record: My intention was not to trash this program!*******************


(BEGIN: STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS... BABBLE)


What have I done! I've created a bad vibe monster that WILL NOT DIE! :wip: As the creator of this thread...is there any way that I can kill this beast and restore the peace? :wip:

I'm sorry fellaz...I just wanted to figure out why my ugly little model/mesh was crashing the one program that brings me so much happiness.... The few hours each day that I place my pudgy little ass in my uncomfortable Office Max swivel chair and sit down in front of my squeaky, crumb filled keyboard, I actually look forward to learning something new about modeling, animating ...lighting ...whatever using my one and only 3D program....the one I love....my first...(sniff) true...(sniff) love... 3D Studio Maximum!!!!!.

For me...this random crashing.....is all relatively new and since..I'm just a 30 year old dork...working on his reel, trying to break into the gaming industry (PLEASE GOD...PLEASE..SOMEONE HIRE ME... I HATE MY JOHOHOHOHOB!) My crashes I'm sure aren't nearly as frustrating as those of you who depend on the program to make a living....eek!


IMHO: I think what I have to realize is that as long as we're using these machines to run our software(Max, Maya, XSI..super porn sorter...oops) (regardless of the configuration or expense of the machine or the software) there will always be 1.1 million things that could cause problems. Nothing is guaranteed....I do think though that since we all spent considerable amounts of cash on the software...and we did didn't we...and we're all either professionals in the industry or serious wannabees (PLEASE JESUS SOMEONE HIRE ME!!! I LOATHE MY JOB..!) that more effort should go into reporting these problems to the engineers and more effort should go into supporting the customers who are experiencing these problems to promote loyalty to what really is an overall excellent product. :) END BABBLING....MUST WAKE IN 4 HOURS AND RETURN TO MY DREADED DAY JOB
:drool: what have i done??

[xynaria]

Love may conquer all but love/hate sure calks up the mileometer.
I have never met a Max user that hasn't had a love/hate relationship with it..has anyone??????:p :p

[yair]

avoiding crashes in max is very easy. it noly takes one step and your free to go.
if your having hard time with your pc its not beacuse of the software or the hardware. theres one thing that is making your system bad.
ITS NAME!!!
if you feel your computer is a bad one, chnage its name and all will be well.

i once gave a computer the horrible name of HAL and it realy lived up o its name.
changed it, and all is fine now.

[Iain McFadzen]

Mt computer is called "Iain", so what are you trying to say? :shrug:

[yair]

i think its stright fwd.
CHANGE YOUR NAME.

its not that big of a deal, ppl give to much importance to there given name, and some of those bring with them bad karma.
i have a lot of nice names i can sugest.

how about #nicol# ?
thats a very nice name and i think it will go a long nicly with your last name.

[CANIM8]

I refer to my computer as .....My Precious

[Chico]

Lords computer is called Morheus...God of illusion ..?
I cant remember...

Anyone with a computer called Hal....Is just asking for trouble IMO:shame:

[L0rd]

Morpheus is the God of Dreams in Greek Mythology. I named my cat morpheus too. But my cat went bad soon after I got her, real vicious spontaineous outbursts with claws and teeth and stuff, and then all sweet purrs and nudges real sudden. Messed up cat, my computer does the same sorts of things. You should see the scars I've got up and down my mouse arm!!!!

Maybe my God of dreams became my God of nightmares?

Personally I thought calling my machine Morpheus would be a good thing. Dreams being the spring from which creative thought flows, that kinda made sense.. But calling your Machine Hal? What on earth were you thinking Yair?!

Think I might rename Morpheus to Microchipper, put it in it's place.

And Canim8 you didn't create a monster you actually created a vent for all my frustration and ... and ... frustration. Honestly the 30 plus straight hours I worked over thursday and friday last week would never have been possible if I hadn't chanced upon your thread and been able to rant everytime Max threw a fit.

[Chris]

my last two computers have been called 'Bastard' - it just seemed appropriate...:buttrock:

[CANIM8]

Lord:


Since I "created a vent" for you and probably saved you from heart attack or future liver damage...why don't you create a job for me and get me the hell out of my current nightmare of a profession....!

I can't be that bad! :wip:

canim8

P.S. I'll move to England, Scotland, New Guinea, Colombia or anywhere else that someone will let me make games for a living...I just don't want to teach anymore....!!!!!

Plehehehease! Someone help me! Let me get some piece of anatomy in the door!



:D

[Chico]

Plehehehease! Someone help me! Let me get some piece of anatomy in the door!

Becareful what you wish for aye:hmm:

We dont make games here...But we do our fair share of research..:D RTCWolfenstien and the soon to be arriving Ureal Tournament 2003..:thumbsup:

[L0rd]

Hey Canim8

How about the far South Pacific subtropical "you can't get further away from the rest of the world than this far flung half forgotten sheep infested backwater" islands?

(Think I'm really bitter and twisted at the moment)

Love to help you out of your present plight if I could.

Teaching can't be that bad can it? Far less stressful!!!!

Sometimes I think it would be nice to being doing something else for a living so I could enjoy doing this stuff more.

And I don't think I'm saved from that heart attack just yet. I'll let ou know in a week or so.

[CANIM8]

Teaching can't be that bad can it? Far less stressful!!!!

[/B] :surprised

BAH!!! FAR LESS STRESSFUL!!! TELL THAT TO MY BLEEDING ULCER AND RECEDING HAIRLINE!!! Anyway...it's not the stress that's killing me...it's the cranky @$$ women I work with that are driving me nuts!

I've been it it for almost 10 years now..I've spent the last 8 trying to figure out how to get out of it. I just want to make games, earn a decent wage and once in my life work with people that I have something in common with.

If I didn't have the benefits, wife and child, mortgage, and two cars that I have now I'd just quit and bag can goods until I could finish my "new and improved" reel or go back to school for a fine arts degree. I'll just keep plugging away...I'm sure someone will take pity on me one of these days..and give me a shot....maybe someone with a soft spot for teachers....(*sniff):drool:

[L0rd]

Oh - dear - God!

My condolences. I didn't realise.

Good luck.

[CANIM8]

Originally posted by Chico


We dont make games here...But we do our fair share of research..:D RTCWolfenstien and the soon to be arriving Ureal Tournament 2003

I live about 20 miles from Epic Games...where they're actually making UT and Unreal Championship...atleast...I think that's where most of the production work is happening...not sure where the design/planning was done..

...man..I'd give my left pinky toe to get into that place and learn a few things from the guys making those games..

:scream:

[Chico]

http://www.unrealtournament2003.com/

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[yair]

we can turn this thread into a new forum

[Chico]

Well....If it gets us back on topic... UT is done mainly in max AFAIK....And Im sure thay all have love hate relationships with Max:p

[pappuftp]

here we go again...:shame: :shame: :shame:

[yair]

well...
mybe we should turn this forum into a new thread.

[Chico]

The vent for buggy software thread.

Or

The 3dsmax thread:p

[ilasolomon]

i'm with yair
end this thread...pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

[CANIM8]

As the Official "Creator" of this thread from hell which has given so many of you so much pleasure...in a sick..twisted sort of way...Please do me a favor and crit my:

"DEMON WIP ....UPDATE 5_20 Crits plz" In the 2D_3D WIP section. I need help with weapon suggestions, clothing, etc.. I'm still tweaking the feet head and arms. I got some modeling in before beddy bye time and thought I could get a fresh start tomorrow.

Thanks,

Clay (Father of the thread from hell)

[L0rd]

10 things I love about Max?

[AnimBot]

Wow this thread is fantastic I'm sorry I didn't get in on it earlier.
Let's see the 10 things I like most about max.

1)Love the workflow
2)Love the teapot button (Look at what I made mom!!)
3)Love the animate button.
4)Love the choices of animation controllers
5)Love to hate the TCB controller.
6)Love editable poly (especially with meshtools :drool: )
7)Love having quick keyframe editing right in the timeline.:buttrock:
8)Love being able to attatch an Ik handle directly to my linked teapots, create a walkcycle, and then wonder why I waisted half an hour setting up and animating this rig.:shrug:
9)Love the fact that discreet didn't make Character Studio the standard max bones. (cause I would have to kill myself)
10)Love showing Maya users why Max is better than Maya, and have it crash on me............five times in a row..........then corrupt my chrome teapot rig.:annoyed:

[Joebount]

Max can crash (...)

To avoid having bad surprises, I suggest you that :

increase your file name in this fashion :

roger_1_1
...
roger_1_9
...
roger_1_92
...
roger_1_994

--> first stage of your scene (ie : modelling)

then
roger_2_1
...
etc.

it's the next stage (ie: texturing)

Between the diferrent stages, try to collapse all the modifiers, it can also be a pain in the @ss sometimes ...

Use only plugins that are really needed, and only those tested, re-tested and debuged.

I have been following this method for 3 months now, and 0 crash.
So, I guess Max can be stable sometimes; just be nice with him :)

oh yeah, a useful link :
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/tut30/tut30.htm

Thx Neil ;)

[CANIM8]

Okay...

This solution is going to work for everyone with any problem..I promise... (and ...it's better than JoeBount's Solution)
:D


Increase folder/file names in this fashion instead:

Folder 1 Scene 1

Folder Name: Oh_Please!
File Name: Oh_Please_1


Folder 2 Scene 2

Folder Name: Max_Please
File Name: Max_Please_2



Folder 3 Scene 3

Folder Name: Don't_Crash_Today!
File Name: Don't_Crash_Today!_3


If this doesn't work...refer to my ritual on page 1...!

http://www.aardvarkarchie.com/pictures/images/bizarre/bizarre032.jpg....:surprised

[Marcel]

There is a + button in the 'save file as' dialog, push it and Max incremently saves the file. So scene01.max will become scene02.max, etc.

Very nice feature, I wish all programs had it as a standard (though I must say Max benefits the most of it :) ).

Also, it seems that most of my instability problems I had last weeks were caused by a defective harddisk. Even Photoshop files get corrupt the last few days, somthing that has hapenned only once before. Luckily I have burned a backup (costing me gazzilions of CD-Rs, but hey!).

Marcel Vijfwinkel

[sam]

. . .hmm, a problem originally attributed to 3ds max now being isolated to a defective hard drive . . . go figure

congratulations on sorting that out Marcel

sam

[halo]

3 copies of max running on 3 different machines all on win2k with between 512 and a gb of ram all with different hardware max had demonstrated an ability to crash and not only corrupt the file that it was working on but the whole folder as well....when its real bad it takes down explorer on the desktop or in a folder even just be selecting the file without even clicking it....

after 4 years of max, you kinda just shrug your shoulders and say "its max" and then start learning maya :)

[L0rd]

I've had no problems since I systematically followed the procedures I outlined late last week. Anyone of those things I did alone could have fixed the problem,

I'd like to think it was the Greek alphabetical incremental saving.

Not meaning to be offensive or anything but I could imagine Sam smiling sagely from infront of his web browser window as he read Marcels last post, before I even read sams response to it.

Hope everyones having a wonderful day in Max.

C.

The Lord

[pappuftp]

well it seems halo is not convinced..

( keep the fire burning) hate to see this die out



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[L0rd]

You must remember that I'm running with the bare minimum of features here. Everything may be rosey but I'm not using any wiring or custom attributes or third party plugins, only the standard expressions, dummies and point objects. All objects are meshes rather than polys (which I'm not trusting at the moment.)

[pappuftp]

well i have always worked with polys .. so no probs there
but to each his own

btw here is something i read at maya forum

it was about $6000,it has no SDS, no good renderer & they call it HIGHEND! ...poor MAX
may we call maya unlimited ULTRA-SUPER-OVER HIGHEST END!?
return your maya & buy little under-low-end buggy friend 3ds MAX!

bwahahhahaah!!!
grass is always greener on the other side

i use maya(learning) and max and both are great

just carry on with ur job

[Anton Andriesh]

Most of these crashes are caused by your operating system. Try win2000 or XP. NO win98, NO ME! :thumbsdow

I had the same problems, untill I installed win2000. Max works stable. It refers to combustion too. :buttrock:

[L0rd]

wouldn't run it on anything but Win 2000.

[Marcel]

Originally posted by halo
....when its real bad it takes down explorer on the desktop or in a folder even just be selecting the file without even clicking it....


That was a problem with Windows2000 and a early version of Max3. The thumbnails saved in the file caused explorer to crash. Very bad bug, but also fixed right now.

Marcel

[halo]

marcel - that maybe the case, but this is on win2k sp2 and max 4.26

no fancy stuff just large scenes and poly meshes....

incremental saves help, but when it blows a whole folder the only practice to adopt is to move the files out of the folder your working in every time....

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