ZBrush 4!

[BUZZFX]

Is that August 2009 or ....

Honestly I'm done waiting for ZBrush with Mudbox for mac just being released.

[R10k]

ZBrush 4 will be a free upgrade for all registered users of ZBrush on Windows and Mac systems.

You really have to hand it to Pixologic. That's pretty insane.

Honestly I'm done waiting for ZBrush with Mudbox for mac just being released.

What were you waiting for?

[BUZZFX]

You really have to hand it to Pixologic. That's pretty insane.What's insane is having to wait any longer to get a mac version that works.

What were you waiting for?You're kidding right! I mean take a look at the ZBrush Central Forum and you'll see. The mac version is full of missing functionality and the Displacement doesn't work, need I say more?

[PixelTricks]

That seems more like a "don't buy mudbox, we got something really cool soon, we promise" than a news item.

[DuttyFoot]

was hoping they would have had some teasers on their website.

[R10k]

You're kidding right! I mean take a look at the ZBrush Central Forum and you'll see. The mac version is full of missing functionality and the Displacement doesn't work, need I say more?

No need to get your pants in a twist- that's a fair enough point. I don't know the status of the Mac version.

[lovisx]

I hope they keep this deadline!

[iatriki]

:( no teaser videos... bummer

[ZacD]

What's insane is having to wait any longer to get a mac version that works.

You're kidding right! I mean take a look at the ZBrush Central Forum and you'll see. The mac version is full of missing functionality and the Displacement doesn't work, need I say more?

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program.

[SheepFactory]

Its a teaser of a teaser.


Also $20 says the mac version will be delayed\missing functionality.

[Gwot]

Haha! Oh man, I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever have to pay for upgrades. =] Seriously, it's been over 5 years since I paid for this app and it's been one hell of a great ride. Every release leaps and bounds better than the last.

Cheers to pixologic!

[StephaneD]

the future begins august 2009 ...
in pixologic language I guess it means august 2009 is the realease date of a release date :)
still current version is already great, so no reason to get excited for me.

[SheepFactory]

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program.


Huh? *slowclap

Why should I have to switch to windows for one app that should be working like it is supposed to?

I would gladly pay for updates if that means the software I use is updated frequently and works like it is advertised.

[ThE_JacO]

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program.
How is dual boot a reasonable solution when you need to use different softwares on different platforms concurrently, or even sequentially.
You're basically saying there should only be one OS of choice if you think cross platform porting is a waste of resources and rebooting every few minutes to hours is a reasonable solution. And Virtualization can only occasionally be an option.

Not everybody likes to work on Windows you know? :)

[ntmonkey]

I say Pixologic owes us some screenshots and a video.

[Stellios]

Im very excited, I love Zbrush :D

Harder to innovate than to replicate :P

[cresshead]

holy ping pong bats!
excellent news...zbrush is one of my favorite apps [i'm on windows for it]

intersting to see how zbrush 4 will compare to 3dcoat and mudbx2009 once we get to see some sneak peek vids before siggraph 2009.

[pete]

I hope they have some more cool painting tools! Like layers and stuff.
Also I hope they have tweaked the whole work flow a bit, it not intuitive at all.

[DaddyMack]

Watching the saga that is Zbrush evolve over the last five years has been one of the coolest things I've witnessed. in a sea of Autodesk and Adobe these guys are truly thinking outside the box.

I look forward to seeing where they take this :beer: Thanks for the headsup

[cgisoul]

Would love to see some improvements on the UI and some blending modes.
Better rendering system without having to jump between apps for high rendering quality.
Looking forward to that. Just hope they will stick to the deadline.

[MasonDoran]

whats the point of an announcement without any kind of REAL information?


no screenshots, no features...nothing?

4 months ....hmm...that leaves a lot of room for postponing deadlines.

This makes me think Pixologic is feeling the pressure of the competition.

[grrinc]

This makes me think Pixologic is feeling the pressure of the competition.

First thing that sprang to my mind when I saw that announcement.

[zimmernwuya]

http://user.qzone.qq.com/248313935/

[SeaJackal]

Regarding the OS discusion. People that think OSX users shouldn't complain because they can use the windows version, last time I checked windows vista costs around 140 uk pounds, who's gonna pay for that? certainly not pixologic.

On another note. Why does pixologic bother with giving another date for this new version?. They should just say "here, it's ready", instead of creating this annoytng circle of hype/disapointment,

cheers

[Cheesestraws]

I can't believe they are not charging existing users for this release, the money has to run out eventually.

August is an interesting date for them to release information as that is when we will likely get Mudbox 2010.

[quyeno]

Snore. so wheres the news? whats the point of an announcement with no details of new features? Lame. unless its another classic Pixologic announcement...ie announce now and deliver years later.

[CaptainSensible]

I agree Pixo have probably been forced to say something cos of the new mudbox2009 mac release. August is an odd release date. When is Siggraph this year? But it is a free upgrade and you can't knock them for that.

[Lone Deranger]

Damage control.

[Revliss]

I say Pixologic owes us some screenshots and a video.
it only real news went you see some screen shots

[cgisoul]

When is Siggraph this year?

SIGGRAPH 2009 conference: This year's Annual Conference will be held in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA from 3-7 August, 2009.

[Lone Deranger]

Yes.. just because monopolies and no consumer choice are a good thing!

Students... :rolleyes:

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program.

[Laa-Yosh]

Free upgrades are cool.

On the other hand I'd like to see some serious workflow improvements. We still have to click "smooth UV" manually each and every time we start to work on something. As long as there's fundamental problems like this, I'd rather not see any new and often gimmicky features...

[MotleyPete]

Whilst I'm pleased at the continued development and the proposed free upgrade, I'd be far happier if they released a patch for the current Mac version (displacement map export, UV'ing and document resizing are all currently broken features on the Mac).

At the moment, I'm a little confused.

[Tecy]

CGicore, hit the nail on the head, Siggraph is the beginning. I highly doubt that Zbrush 4 will be released in august. Pixologic has to have somthing to say at Siggraph, so this has been put up to keep people hanging on a bit longer. It realy dont mean anything at this time, other than its v4 and not v3.5.

I also like to add that while its looked apon as a free upgrade to Pc users, its what should be expected for free by Mac users, as they never even got a functional v3 to start with. By the way im a PC user.


By my memory v3.5 was a fix for current bugs, while getting Mac on board for the begginings of a sequential release of v4. Pc users are lucky to get v4 for free, while Mac users deserve it outright.

[vlad74]

Great news. I hope they have fixed the "camera" problem. It was the thing that kept me away from ZB.

[CaptainSensible]

SIGGRAPH 2009 conference: This year's Annual Conference will be held in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA from 3-7 August, 2009.

I remember only too well the frustration of being a mac user and waiting for an upgrade last year. We were promised something at Siggraph yet heard nothing til months after. I would expect a demo only in august and a release (of some kind) later in the year or next year. Although saying that when Pixo finally gave a release date for mac they actually hit it. So I don't know if they are finally learning. I don't want to get my hopes up though.

[cresshead]

so what new stuff you expect from zbrush 4?

hdri lighting/rendering
armatures for posing
diffuse, specular, bump paint layers
photoshop blending layers
natural media brushes for texture/painting with watercolor and oils
extended mat cap library
voxel based sculpting
improved perspective camera
grid in viewport + standard rotate,scale, move manipulators
spacemouse support
simpler streamlined export wizards to 3dsmax, maya, xsi, lightwave, houdini

[BitsAndBytes]

Well it's pretty obvious that August is the intended release target, if they actually make it is another matter entirely. Personally I can't wait to see what they have come up with this time, they really are the innovators in this field (although atleast up until mudbox 2009 I felt skymatter were the better implementors). As for the mac thing, I had no idea it was suffering from such drawbacks. If they are not intent on properly supporting the platform they should just leave it be in my opinion. Anyway, another free upgrade... insane. While it's obvious ZBrush is the big leader in 3d sculpting one would think that sooner or later they'd have to start charging for upgrades. I guess that's the power of being a privately owned company, you don't have to face up to shareholders that demand you squeeze every little penny of profit you can out of the consumers.

[UrbanFuturistic]

Is it just me or is half that list purloined from the feature list of the next 3D Coat?

ZacD doesn't get software production economics. If sales for a platform make a profit, you sell for that platform. If ZBrush wasn't sold for Mac there would just be less money for development of the parts of the codebase which are common to both platforms. If it doesn't make a profit and is a drain on the company, then they'll stop making it.

[demoniorojo]

I hope to see a x64 version of zbrush 4 for win...

[firstsingle]

Before a Mac release huh? That's really smart.

[bisenberger]

Super! I love their business model - upgrades with major innovations and free to existing users.

[ZacD]

Students... :rolleyes:

I use macs 3 hours a day, there's a few apps I'd rather work with on OSX and the hassle of working with 2 OS's on one machine is minimal. If your working in CG there is no reason you shouldn't have windows along with OS, there's a lot of great free programs on the PC that are worth the switch time, takes only a minute to restart.

Mac users should be happy they have the freedom to use multiple OS, and stop complaining :surprised Beggars can't be choosers.

[alexentremont]

so what new stuff you expect from zbrush 4?
A working Mac version?

Actually no, i'm done waiting: hello Mudbox!

[alexentremont]

Mac users should be happy they have the freedom to use multiple OS, and stop complaining :surprised Beggars can't be choosers.
Thank you for telling me what I should do.

[GaryHaus]

Indeed! Thanks so much oh mighty users for 'telling' us how we should use our tools, on top of the fact that I bought Zbrush for the Mac.. and guess what it doesn't work. The illusion of superiority and arrogance on this site really gets me going sometimes...

BTW- Any OS X users on the fence... Buy MB2009 It works!

G

[ZacD]

I wasn't trying to come off with a superiority complex and being arrogant, people here are just really demanding on software developers, faster, more optimized, more tools, easier work flow, completely remake the program and the tools to work in another OS that has 10% of the market, etc, etc

[Phrenzy84]

If pixologic were a movie studio, all they did was announce the inevitable name of its next sequel.

It would be nice if they were a little forthcoming and shared some facts/details because the game is a little different now, there are more than two competitors and the others are willing to engage with its users.

More announcements like this will only make people frustrated, no matter how amazing the product.

And in the interim you will have a lot more of the semi-hypocritical posts, who hate people telling them what to do and how to do it and will promote other competitors as the only option to get the job done.

I have big hopes for the direction of Zbrush, lets be honest it has done a lot more for us than we have for them and i don't doubt the importance of this next installment, but my fury is with the announcement of its name and one of the twelve months of the year with no discernible facts (apart form its free to registered users, which is very cool).

Pull your socks up Pixologic. If your doing so good that you don't need to charge for upgrades then hire a PR manager because you really need one.

[johnstrieder]

I hope to see a x64 version of zbrush 4 for win...

Oh yeah! At least support for multi-threading :shrug:

[BigPixolin]

Its a teaser of a teaser.


Also $20 says the mac version will be delayed\missing functionality.

I bet $100 they miss the whole month of august for the tease. They have done it before.
This isn't news. Zbrush is awesome. Pixologic is the worst run company in CG! I'm out!

[Poisen]

its a glass half full or half empty kind of thing.

as for me, another free upgrade to my app of choice?

versus paying twice as much for half the app?

and all it costs me is patience?

my cupeth doeth runneth over--th... ;)

[cresshead]

by announcing 4. and not 3.5 that infers that it's a new big step forward much like it was from zbrush 2 to zbrush 3

looks good to me...still i like zbrush 3.1 already so a free upgrade to 4.0 will be very welcome

>> glass half full here.

[DanielWray]

I have yet to get involved with zbrush, but i think i will wait and see what they have to offer, although what is currently on offer is more than enough really, well for the majority :)

[UrbanFuturistic]

I wasn't trying to come off with a superiority complex and being arrogant, people here are just really demanding on software developers, faster, more optimized, more tools, easier work flow, completely remake the program and the tools to work in another OS that has 10% of the market, etc, etcIf they're not prepared to put out a working product for OS X they shouldn't have taken people's money, if they have taken people's money they should put deliver what they promised. Simple as that.

This 'beggars can't be choosers' crap is extremely arrogant. The OS X customers are not beggars, Pixologic are not giving away that version of ZBrush for free, they're charging for it. This isn't someone's pet project or a freebie, the people at Pixologic are being paid to work on it. A person can do whatever they like with their work so long as it's their own pet project but the moment they start charging people money for it there's an obligation to deliver that which was promised for the money.

If someone pays money for something and it doesn't work, they have a right to complain. It's not some sort of wonderous privilege that they've handed over their hard-earned for something that doesn't work. If Pixologic don't want to deliver, they can hand everyone their money back and get out of that market. In the meantime, they are under obligation.

[ambient-whisper]

Oh yeah! At least support for multi-threading :shrug:

it already is.

[PiotrekM]

what a smart marketing to prevent people from buying mudbox

hey guys, im annoucing 3ds max 2011, maya 2010, softimage 8..they will be out...soon...with NEW features
the future begins this year!

[alexentremont]

I wasn't trying to come off with a superiority complex and being arrogant, people here are just really demanding on software developers, faster, more optimized, more tools, easier work flow, completely remake the program and the tools to work in another OS that has 10% of the market, etc, etc
If by "demanding" you mean "asking for a mac version that actually works after they got my money", then yes I am demanding (and patient too, since I waited for more than a year after the Windows release to get a broken mac version)!
And judging by the many applications Autodesk is currently porting to OS X (Mudbox, Toxic, Autocad...), those 10% mac users could be the only way to gain market share in a windows saturated software market...
Pixologic has great software developers, but the way they handle their OS X customers is just plain outrageous.

[Rhs_CG]

Here's to hoping it gets better, but for now, it's like having an amazingly talented artist, who is really hard to work with and won't communicate. In the long term, workability, not capability, is the more desired "feature".

[voltageme5]

And the future begins NOW!

wait wait, no NOW!

Damn, no it's.......NOW!

Ugh!!

The future begins.........NOW!!!

[INFINITE]

moan, moan, moan!

Who invented the wheel? Pixologic did!

Mac this Mac that. Buy a PC :)

[cgisoul]

Well, I guess we just don't need to get all hyper really. We still have 4 months ahead and let's see what will happen. If history serves well, let just don't count on any promises from Pix until some hard evidence are shown, and even with those evidence, believe it only when is out... Believe me, you will keep your blood pressure low.

Meanwhile, we can wonder what kind of improvements they might have done in V.4.
So, since the Future starts only in August, that makes me wonder if they have come up with a real 3D space, like Mudbox? Improvements with the workflow within Zbrush -> Maya/max/XSI? It would only be of their great interest of course.

The only problem from Pix I see is the lack of sense with Marketing strategy, however, they can still sell and allow free upgrades in their business module... intriguing...
Never the less, Pix has almost always never deliver the product in time, with constant delays and users have always forgive them. Now, Pix never really had any competition along these years and now they do. With 3DC and Autodesk in the game, they just can't afford NOT TO meet the delivery day and keep their word/image up and running.

But again, it's a free upgrade, v.3.1 does everything I need, the rest is a bonus really.
Although Zbrush is not all about zspheres and transpose, but if Mudbox or any other sculpting app can come up with their own similar feature as mentioned, and AD figures a better connection withint Mudbox and its brothers app (Maya/Max/XSI), I believe Zbrush can start counting its days.

[eldee]

so what new stuff you expect from zbrush 4?
- a fairly comprehensive list of awesome new features that sometimes work, and are potentially useful, but you'll have to keep the old version installed in order to actually finish projects.
- all of the bugs from 3.1 that slow me down, plus new ones.
- the same old restrictions on the UI (can't resize the window, cant move it around properly, cant rebind navigation, no SpaceNavigator support, etc).
- at least a 12 month delay and several missed deadlines. there's no way this thing is coming out in august- this is pixologic we're talking about people...

I know that's probably a bit pessimistic, but probably one of the more realistic expectations you can have. Pixologic is a fantastic R&D company- but they have piss poor customer relations. 3.1 is a usable piece of software due to the sheer number of quirks and workarounds that have been created, but if you think back, the v3 release was nothing short of a disaster.

Forget for a moment the temporary euphoria of having a new toy, and remember the first time your boss asked you to make a normal or displacement map. Personally, I was still using Z2 for almost 6 months after Z3 came out, because it was mostly just a fancy tech demo.. after numerous delays, it still wasn't finished so they just dumped it out on us.

I really hope that I'm proven wrong and that Pixologic has learned from past mistakes.. I hope the Z4 launch is handled intelligently, and that the number of new features is kept in check in favor of fixing existing problems with 3.1

I like free upgrades as much as the next guy, but I (along with every other modeler I know) would definitely be willing to pay for upgrades if it meant regular bug fixes and consistent release schedules.

[R10k]

If someone pays money for something and it doesn't work, they have a right to complain. It's not some sort of wonderous privilege that they've handed over their hard-earned for something that doesn't work. If Pixologic don't want to deliver, they can hand everyone their money back and get out of that market. In the meantime, they are under obligation.

Aside from the legalities of false advertising and the like, for people who buy a fair amount of software, it's understood those who purchase a bit of software before testing it don't exactly have a leg to stand on if things don't work as expected. The idea is to wait and test a bit of software, and then pay for it once you know it can do what you want. I don't preorder games, and I don't preorder software for that very reason.

Perhaps you can mount some legal action against Pix... I don't know, but in my eyes, if you paid for Zbrush without first knowing it'd work, it's your own darn fault.

:wavey:

[phobos]

I'm willing to bet 450.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 euros, that they will miss the august release.
I'm that confident!!!

[mental]

Pixologic could ease much of this anger if they just released bug fixes on a regular basis. Six months in and Mudbox 2009 has seen two service packs (with a third on the way) and the introduction of a working Mac version. That's the way things should work.

[MrPositive]

Pixologic could ease much of this anger if they just released bug fixes on a regular basis. Six months in and Mudbox 2009 has seen two service packs (with a third on the way) and the introduction of a working Mac version. That's the way things should work.

They have a tad more money and man power. hahaha Nevertheless, I'm still salivating at the possibilities of zbrush 4. If they could actually just come anywhere close to this release date, then I'd say they are still king for a tad while longer. :)

[DragoCG]

Aside from the legalities of false advertising and the like, for people who buy a fair amount of software, it's understood those who purchase a bit of software before testing it don't exactly have a leg to stand on if things don't work as expected. The idea is to wait and test a bit of software, and then pay for it once you know it can do what you want. I don't preorder games, and I don't preorder software for that very reason.

Perhaps you can mount some legal action against Pix... I don't know, but in my eyes, if you paid for Zbrush without first knowing it'd work, it's your own darn fault.

:wavey:

If it were just one bug, that would be one thing, but it is several different functionalities that are not "buggy". They don't work.... outright! I purchased this application for the first time, so I had no idea of what should work properly and what shouldn't. It was only after spending countless hours learning the program and building my first model that I realized I couldn't export my maps properly. That's a pretty big problem, and one that should have been addressed long before they announced a new upgrade release for PC. If they don't want mac users to stay customers, that is their business decision, but as long as they continue to market and sell to us we should have a fully functional application, or at least one that works as well as the PC Version. BTW, map export is just one of several problems in the mac version.

I hate PC's and all of the garbage pre-loaded apps, viruses, and spyware inherent with the system. I don't need somebody telling me to switch OS's because that's not going to happen. I love ZBrush from what I've used of it so far, but if they don't get their house in order, a huge portion of their business is going to disappear in the very near future. Mac users are tired of the delays and now there is a viable alternative. That is a reality.

[R10k]

It was only after spending countless hours learning the program and building my first model that I realized I couldn't export my maps properly.

You realise that's what a trial is for, right?

I hate PC's and all of the garbage pre-loaded apps, viruses, and spyware inherent with the system.

Sheesh man, it's just an OS. You install whatever hardware and software you need to, to use the software you want to. If you're not willing to do that, switch to something else. It's not the end of the world.

[mental]

They have a tad more money and man power. hahaha Nevertheless, I'm still salivating at the possibilities of zbrush 4. If they could actually just come anywhere close to this release date, then I'd say they are still king for a tad while longer. :)
At this point, bugs and broken tools are more of an impediment to my ZB workflow than a want for new features. I would rather take a refined ZB v3.5 today and happily wait until Siggraph 2010 for ZB4.

[oneandonlyDiscoStu]

Youre such whiners its insane.

No one has expected the things that came with zb3 and 3.1.
I just hope pixologic will blow minds again.

Autodesk will then copy and make it work a little better on macs.
Then well be back to the whining point again. tz tz tz

Also its a free upgrade so even if its crap you didnt buy it or wont

[lovisx]

Has the beta started for this yet. When did the beta start for 3? That's a tell tail of how long it's going to take before release, maybe.

[oneandonlyDiscoStu]

all the mac users with unfunctional zbrush versions just get a normal pc.
Theyre cheaper and faster anyways:drool:

All i can say is that my i7 920 standard rig is raping mac pro 8 core in some apps:wavey:

[R10k]

Best not to turn this into a Mac vs PC thread, methinks. Mac guys have some valid complaints.

[BUZZFX]

Aside from the legalities of false advertising and the like, for people who buy a fair amount of software, it's understood those who purchase a bit of software before testing it don't exactly have a leg to stand on if things don't work as expected. The idea is to wait and test a bit of software, and then pay for it once you know it can do what you want. I don't preorder games, and I don't preorder software for that very reason.

Perhaps you can mount some legal action against Pix... I don't know, but in my eyes, if you paid for Zbrush without first knowing it'd work, it's your own darn fault.Kind of hard when there is no mac trial!

http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/trial/

Pixologic could ease much of this anger if they just released bug fixes on a regular basis. Six months in and Mudbox 2009 has seen two service packs (with a third on the way) and the introduction of a working Mac version. That's the way things should work.QFA!


:)

[oneandonlyDiscoStu]

Im guessing so far pixologyc didnt see the need to put out service pacs every few months.
Theyr software was working fine up until the mac version.

Exept for senseless crashes leaving you no option to save ur work it has always worked great on pc´s

[anoon]

I for one am extremely psyched! I cannot believe it is another free upgrade! Seems to me like Pixologic are entering a war of attrition for the high poly sculpting customers with Mudbox, and it couldn't be more exciting. There's no way Autodesk can compete with that what with their obligations to share holders that require elevated price tags and schemes like subscription programs.

After the debacle that was Mudbox, I am going to have to back Pixologic once more. My Mudbox license will remain dormant and languish unupgraded again.

For ZB 4, I would like to see:

Poly painting Layers
Texture painting Layers
UV editor
Linux version (This would put me over the edge and prompt me to go Linux!!!)
Some new mesh editing tools
Free form mesh sculpting (Paint and create geometry with standard brushes in 3D, and then create new adaptive skin)
Export MatCaps as pixel shaders

[notlongago]

YES please no new features needed , just get rid of the old bugs. Here is a simple list of bugs that can be repeated many million times by many million people daily.

-wacom brush size selector freeze
-famous save crash bug
-visually disapperaring topology bones during retopo(some are visible some are not)
-THE BEST OF THE BUGS OF ALL TIME, the exploiding mesh after an .obj import.

Instead of coming up free upgrade with some invisible features they should take care of current hurdles first. Please fix "todays" issues before jumping into the "future"





Pixologic could ease much of this anger if they just released bug fixes on a regular basis. Six months in and Mudbox 2009 has seen two service packs (with a third on the way) and the introduction of a working Mac version. That's the way things should work.

[CHRiTTeR]

They only announced version 4. That doesnt mean theres no 3.5 on its way for the mac users... Although i must say it seems indeed unlikely

[ZacD]

I guess it is unfair that there wasn't an OSX trial out before the mac release to make sure it ran well before spending money on it. Lets just hope that they are making the OSX along side the windows.

[Imhotep397]

Z4 probably isn't going to have a slew of new features. It seems like there's still a huge feature/functionality disparity between the PC and Mac versions which has been there a while and some things just aren't implemented the way they'd initally been shown during that big gap of time between Z2 and Z3. I think that they'll fix a lot of things: retopology will probably be overhauled, UV unwrapping will get reworked, they'll probably resituate Transpose so that it's a little more like rigging with some kind of utility for weight painting to reduce the amount of resculpting people have to do after transposing. A Mac PPC version would be nice considering there are more than a couple of loyal ZBrush license holders that are still on PPC or have multiple workstations and some of them are PPC, but I don't really expect that to happen.

Wouldn't surprise me if the next major revision (Z5?) included some kind of muscle system to maintain volume through posing and possibly even ZBrush rendering/display rendering plug-ins for other apps kind of like the Vue XStream concept, but designed to bring Pixols and native highpoly ZBrush levels into other apps to contribute directly to offline rendering and/or display rendering. (I wonder if that may have been the idea at the kernel level of putting the whole turntable feature in.)

[lovisx]

I'm wondering what they may do to address voxel sculpting. Perhaps an improvement to zspheres.

[INFINITE]

I for one am extremely psyched! I cannot believe it is another free upgrade! Seems to me like Pixologic are entering a war of attrition for the high poly sculpting customers with Mudbox, and it couldn't be more exciting. There's no way Autodesk can compete with that what with their obligations to share holders that require elevated price tags and schemes like subscription programs.

After the debacle that was Mudbox, I am going to have to back Pixologic once more. My Mudbox license will remain dormant and languish unupgraded again.

For ZB 4, I would like to see:


Poly painting Layers
Texture painting Layers
UV editor
Linux version (This would put me over the edge and prompt me to go Linux!!!)
Some new mesh editing tools
Free form mesh sculpting (Paint and create geometry with standard brushes in 3D, and then create new adaptive skin)
Export MatCaps as pixel shaders



Good list.


Perhaps even some proper format support? instead of just the old .OBJ import/Export. The fact that Max .OBJ export doesnt support grouping? and that Lightwave supports multiple UV's but .OBJ doesnt, causes all sorts of headaches.

As well as a UV tool? even just so you can check to see if your object actualy has any UV's?

[Poisen]

"As well as a UV tool? even just so you can check to see if your object actualy has any UV's?"

Hey Infinite,
it does.
Texture rollout-UV Check
generates a texture map of your UV layout with overlapping UV's shaded in red.

; )

J.B.

[DestroyerU]

Cg "artists" are the biggest whiners on the planet, but just barely beating video game players. I guess software just brings the cry baby out of people....

[quyeno]

Cg "artists" are the biggest whiners on the planet, but just barely beating video game players. I guess software just brings the cry baby out of people....

yeah, you could say that but when you've paid ALOT of money for your software the least software companies can do is fix bugs on a timely manner.

[DanielWray]

DestroyerU: the reason why people complain is becuase they've handed over hard earned cash and they expect to get there moneys worth. This goes for all 3D applications, you spend hundreds to thousands of dollars/ pounds on one application, your going to be expecting close to perfection.. or at the very minimum bug free!

[geezlouize]

Is that August 2009 or ....


HAHAHA good point. I forgot who else said...is that a release date for a release date? very good point as well.

[mfiorilli]

I can't wait to see how zbrush will distingish hiself against mudbox ! To beat mudbox 2009, it really needs to be AWESOME

[INFINITE]

"As well as a UV tool? even just so you can check to see if your object actualy has any UV's?"

Hey Infinite,
it does.
Texture rollout-UV Check
generates a texture map of your UV layout with overlapping UV's shaded in red.

; )

J.B.

Not quite what I meant but thanks for that ; )

[Magnus3D]

Don't forget about 3D-Coat which both Zbrush and Mudbox now have to compete with, it's growing day by day into a stronger and more competetive choice to the giants.

/ Magnus

[Darth Mole]

Only yesterday did Pixologic agree to refund my invstment for Mac ZBrush. On one hand that was nice of them - it's paid for my move to Mudbox OSX which I'm now enjoying, working displacement maps and all.

But on the other hand, a nicely-worded email saying, 'hang on, we've got good news' might just have kept me on board. They're so dim.

Hopefully Pix's work will spur on the Mudbox team to greater heights. But for me, as it stands, Mudbox is easier to use, simpler to understand - and that's just fine.

[vlad74]

Don't forget about 3D-Coat which both Zbrush and Mudbox now have to compete with, it's growing day by day into a stronger and more competetive choice to the giants.

/ Magnus

Exactly. 3D-Coat will grow huge I think. It has already actually.

[sacslacker]

Lot's of ZBrush hate. I guess it sucks on the Mac side. I'm a PC user and I love ZBrush. This news is pretty exciting. Announcing it this far in advance is kinda strange though. When it's released it will be "old news". Kinda like they are stealing their own thunder.

Anyway, go go ZBrush!

[DestroyerU]

DestroyerU: the reason why people complain is becuase they've handed over hard earned cash and they expect to get there moneys worth. This goes for all 3D applications, you spend hundreds to thousands of dollars/ pounds on one application, your going to be expecting close to perfection.. or at the very minimum bug free!

Have you experienced a bug free 3d or art program yet (of any complexity!!)? They don't exist. Put it a bit in perspective here. Zbrush is one of the cheapest, most powerful sculpting programs out there. Compare the price to Mudbox, which can do much less, and is just a very simplified copy. Then compare upgrades prices to any program out there. If you are on a PC and are griping (macs of course have the right) then you sound like a cry baby to me. The current version of zbrush works just fine. Somehow people have been making amazing artwork with it since it came out - and not just always sitting and waiting for an upgrade.

[DanielWray]

I have yet to try Zbrush out, well except the trial versions. I didn't dig into the software very deep, but if the above posts are saying there are bugs in the program that can be re-produced by doing simple every day tasks then i'd say that is abit of an issue, perhaps there are work arounds, perhaps not.

I'm not saying Zbrush is a bad program, it looks amazing, but if you pay however much it is for the license you do have a right to be annoyed if 2 or 3 versions later the same bugs haven't been addressed.

At the end of the day, it's you and all the paying artists who keep pixologic and all these big companies going, so if there is a major issue with the program, why shouldn't you expect it to be fixed?

[leigh]

and that Lightwave supports multiple UV's but .OBJ doesnt

Uh, what? OBJ supports multiple UVs. I use them all the time.

[hakanpersson]

then you sound like a cry baby to me. The current version of zbrush works just fine.
Ahh.. most "whiners" here are probably experiencing a certain love-hate to Zbrush. Not to mention that stability in Zbrush is highly depending on which system you are running, on my laptop the stability is poor. While Pixologic are insanly talented R&D software developers, it's the only application ever that can be so unstable it's entire purpose almost fails...


Enough of that, I am super excited!!

High on the wish-list is:

a more solid export/import/merge pipeline(uvs and topology).
more stable scaling, merging, seperating of meshes. Would highly increase the app's value in the pipeline
better retopo modes. Like the ability to retopo only certain areas and continue working quickly. Like a combination of "reproject higher subdivs" and "retopo".
ambient occlusion samling, and a more friendly normalmapper that handles externals *.obj (similiar to xnormal).
masking-layer-management. (=save and restore masks with a nice interface).
"height-field masking", exactly like crazybump. Find the heightchanges in a texture and use as a mask for sculpting.
loop and ring selection + grow/shrink selection + per-poly selection modes.
Just to mention a few...

[PixelTricks]

Zbrush reminds me of the rockstar that has popular songs, but goes out after the concert and gets drunk and ends up in fights. It is a love hate thing.

I think 3dcoat will be the biggest thing once it gets the user interface re-worked and cuda based voxel support is done. Never been able to recreate something done with 3dcoat and voxels in any other app with the same ease of use.

[HcyeKRa]

And still it's almost the same, or do you think the majority of gamers only buy one game per year? (hardware upgrades put aside)
And then there are bugs even some that prevent them from playing.

But there is one big difference, gamer can't make money out of it...the majority.


Imo, yes mac users have the right to complain, but on the other side as of yet you bought one version and never paid again, so it's not unreasonable to switch to PC or buy Mudbox.

IF you want to complain then for god's sake do it to Pixologic directly per support, it doesn't make much sense here.

Personally i have the highest respect for Pixologic, such a company is very rare, sure they are not perfect, agreed, and the information politics are bit uhm...

DestroyerU: the reason why people complain is becuase they've handed over hard earned cash and they expect to get there moneys worth. This goes for all 3D applications, you spend hundreds to thousands of dollars/ pounds on one application, your going to be expecting close to perfection.. or at the very minimum bug free!

[INFINITE]

Uh, what? OBJ supports multiple UVs. I use them all the time.


Really? wow I am silly bugga. So an exported .OBJ file from Lightwave that has multiple UV layouts in the same space, is supoprted in ZBrush? I must look into that. :eek:

[Puzzle3d]

That seems more like a "don't buy mudbox, we got something really cool soon, we promise" than a news item.

Yeap! Sounds like a trick

[Koogle]

"Cg "artists" are the biggest whiners on the planet"

lol ...and I wouldn't want it to be any other way! :)

[thatoneguy]

I know this is really bold but I'm going to do it.

Today... I'm announcing ZBrush 5! Due sometime in the next 2 years! It's coming people! Get ready!

My ZBrush 4 wishes:

1) remove all the superfluous crap.
2) Hide the fact that I'm in a paint program.
3) Make getting models in and out intuitive and similar to every other application on the planet... You know "File Save. File Open.".

It shouldn't be rocket science or even mild brain tingling to load an obj. Work on it. Save it. Open it later and export a new OBJ and displacement map.

It's like the core functionality of the application is still this strange second fiddle to their bizzaro worthless 2D paint app that 1 in 5 people actually use Zbrush for.

[DDS]

well if ZB4 is gonna raise the bar as much as 3, we're good to go for some next couple years, havin in mind the limitations in terms of sculpting, at least for me, are quite small already.

I wonder what kind of stuff they'll put it, having aside...interface fixes.

[Rhs_CG]

Animation. That would be sick, if you could animate using transpose. Not sure how the system would cope with millions of polygons being animated, but cool thought.

[Poisen]

"It's like the core functionality of the application is still this strange second fiddle to their bizzaro worthless 2D paint app that 1 in 5 people actually use Zbrush for"

did you really take a poll? ;)

[ZacD]

I wish the UI was more logical and intuitive. Its like working in a program designed by aliens right now.

[Alekzsander]

one gets used to at the end :) ZacD

[ZacD]

I think they are scaring away users with it though

[DimensionalPunk]

I know this is really bold but I'm going to do it.

Today... I'm announcing ZBrush 5! Due sometime in the next 2 years! It's coming people! Get ready!

My ZBrush 4 wishes:

1) remove all the superfluous crap.
2) Hide the fact that I'm in a paint program.
3) Make getting models in and out intuitive and similar to every other application on the planet... You know "File Save. File Open.".

It shouldn't be rocket science or even mild brain tingling to load an obj. Work on it. Save it. Open it later and export a new OBJ and displacement map.

It's like the core functionality of the application is still this strange second fiddle to their bizzaro worthless 2D paint app that 1 in 5 people actually use Zbrush for.

This is exactly how I feel. When I use Zbrush I feel like I'm using a pocket knife to carve a turkey, the fact that it carves turkey really well doesn't take away the awkwardness.

And don't call my model a TOOL!!!

[Kabab]

Just out of curiosity how many people would keep using zbrush if Mudbox had native support for Max/Maya/XSI and a single click normal map / displacement map solution back into those app's?

[ambient-whisper]

I know this is really bold but I'm going to do it.

Today... I'm announcing ZBrush 5! Due sometime in the next 2 years! It's coming people! Get ready!

My ZBrush 4 wishes:

1) remove all the superfluous crap.
2) Hide the fact that I'm in a paint program.
3) Make getting models in and out intuitive and similar to every other application on the planet... You know "File Save. File Open.".

It shouldn't be rocket science or even mild brain tingling to load an obj. Work on it. Save it. Open it later and export a new OBJ and displacement map.

It's like the core functionality of the application is still this strange second fiddle to their bizzaro worthless 2D paint app that 1 in 5 people actually use Zbrush for.

you sir sound like youve opened it, used it for 2 seconds and closed it. reason i say this is because importing and saving is as simple as in any other application out there. infact its more present than other applications because you dont have to open any form of menus to get to a save as/export, because its already there in the interface. if you dont like the way its presented then just put the import button on the interface and itll always be there at the forefront. its not hard man. your complaints sound like they are from a rather unexperienced user.

hakanperssons' comments/suggestions sound a lot better (even though they mention importing as well, but, not the way you save, but rather what gets saved, and how. ). complaining about file/save as is useless as it doesnt do anything to improve the way we work. however, having some past plugins' functionalities built into zbrush would be very welcome ( like subtool masters tools for merging multiple objects, opening lots of objs, etc. )

its that kind of stuff that gets our work done faster, and not merely a file save as...

in fact, instead of removing the paint crap, id love it if pix went back and updated the paint engine some more. it hasnt really been updated in ages, and if it was rewritten a bunch to enable us to polypaint layers, allow layer effects like photoshop does, and give us similar options to PS, or painter then we would really have a killer asset creation application, for both sculpting and painting. it would also allow us to use photoshop a bit less as well.

[cgisoul]

After going through all the 8 pages so far, I have consolidated a wish list based on those who have voiced out what they would like to see improved / changed / fixed. Feel free to update this list with any other item(s).

Zbrush v.4 wish list:



- Poly painting Layers
- Texture painting Layers
- UV editor
- Linux version
- New mesh editing tools
- Free form mesh sculpting (Paint and create geometry with standard brushes in 3D, and then create new adaptive skin)
- Export MatCaps as pixel shaders
- HDRI lighting/rendering
- Armatures for posing
- diffuse, specular, bump paint layers
- Photoshop blending layers
- Natural media brushes for texture/painting with watercolor and oils
- Extended mat cap library
- Voxel based sculpting
- Improved perspective camera
- Grid in viewport + standard rotate, scale, move manipulators
- Spacemouse support
- Simpler streamlined export wizards to 3dsmax, maya, xsi, lightwave, houdini
- A working Mac version
- Wacom brush size selector freeze
- Famous save crash bug
- Visually disapperaring topology bones during retopo(some are visible some are not)
- THE BEST OF THE BUGS OF ALL TIME, the exploiding mesh after an .obj import.
- A more solid export/import/merge pipeline (uvs and topology).
- More stable scaling, merging, seperating of meshes. Would highly increase the app's value in the pipeline
- Better retopo modes. Like the ability to retopo only certain areas and continue working quickly. Like a combination of "reproject higher subdivs" and "retopo".
- Ambient occlusion samling, and a more friendly normalmapper that handles externals *.obj (similiar to xnormal).
- Masking-layer-management. (=save and restore masks with a nice interface).
- "height-field masking", exactly like crazybump. Find the heightchanges in a texture and use as a mask for sculpting.
- Loop and ring selection + grow/shrink selection + per-poly selection modes.
- Remove all the superfluous crap.
- Hide the fact that I'm in a paint program.
- Make getting models in and out intuitive and similar to every other application on the planet... You know "File Save. File Open.".
Strange..... few minutes ago the forum was displaying 8 pages, and now only 3 pages...

[GatorNic]

After going through all the 8 pages so far, I have consolidated a wish list based on those who have voiced out what they would like to see improved / changed / fixed. Feel free to update this list with any other item(s).

Zbrush v.4 wish list:




- Poly painting Layers
- Texture painting Layers
- UV editor
- Linux version
- New mesh editing tools
- Free form mesh sculpting (Paint and create geometry with standard brushes in 3D, and then create new adaptive skin)
- Export MatCaps as pixel shaders
- HDRI lighting/rendering
- Armatures for posing
- diffuse, specular, bump paint layers
- Photoshop blending layers
- Natural media brushes for texture/painting with watercolor and oils
- Extended mat cap library
- Voxel based sculpting
- Improved perspective camera
- Grid in viewport + standard rotate, scale, move manipulators
- Spacemouse support
- Simpler streamlined export wizards to 3dsmax, maya, xsi, lightwave, houdini
- A working Mac version
- Wacom brush size selector freeze
- Famous save crash bug
- Visually disapperaring topology bones during retopo(some are visible some are not)
- THE BEST OF THE BUGS OF ALL TIME, the exploiding mesh after an .obj import.
- A more solid export/import/merge pipeline (uvs and topology).
- More stable scaling, merging, seperating of meshes. Would highly increase the app's value in the pipeline
- Better retopo modes. Like the ability to retopo only certain areas and continue working quickly. Like a combination of "reproject higher subdivs" and "retopo".
- Ambient occlusion samling, and a more friendly normalmapper that handles externals *.obj (similiar to xnormal).
- Masking-layer-management. (=save and restore masks with a nice interface).
- "height-field masking", exactly like crazybump. Find the heightchanges in a texture and use as a mask for sculpting.
- Loop and ring selection + grow/shrink selection + per-poly selection modes.
- Remove all the superfluous crap.
- Hide the fact that I'm in a paint program.
- Make getting models in and out intuitive and similar to every other application on the planet... You know "File Save. File Open.".



What about 64bit? All that compacting memory sux when you have 12gb of RAM that could be used. That my biggest wish along with texture painting layers.

[SheepFactory]

Just out of curiosity how many people would keep using zbrush if Mudbox had native support for Max/Maya/XSI and a single click normal map / displacement map solution back into those app's?


It kinda does already. Mudbox displacement\normal map generation is a breeze.

[mental]

Just out of curiosity how many people would keep using zbrush if Mudbox had native support for Max/Maya/XSI and a single click normal map / displacement map solution back into those app's?
Have to be careful not to turn this into an app vs. app discussion which this thread has avoided thus far. But to answer your question the Mudbox of today lacks more than a few tools which a ZBrush user might find hard to part with (or at the very least frustratingly absent): ZSpheres, Transpose, certain aspects of Subtools, the fluidity of masking/freezing/selecting. Mudbox's SDK is not complete and because of that there is a dearth of plugins and shaders when compared to the ZB community's healthy selection of ztools and matcaps. Whether a MB user considers a ztool as a 'real' plugin or a matcap as a 'real' shader is moot. The important part is that they've been available in ZB v3.1 for nearly 2 years. So while Mudbox is easy to use/learn/import/export, it still has some maturing ahead of it. Then again I could be eating my own words in 4-6 months when we see what the next releases of both packages have to offer.

[Kabab]

It kinda does already. Mudbox displacement\normal map generation is a breeze.I was more thinking in lines of you do your sculpting etc on base mesh that you have imported from Maya/Max/XSI hit export to Maya/Max/XSI and it comes in with all shaders / displacement and renders settings good to go if you hit render you get 1:1 result you saw in Mudbox.

I think specific features are easy to add i think what is hard is general workflow and intergration this is what makes for productivity.

[R10k]

Kind of hard when there is no mac trial!

Do what most people do- don't buy it until you know what it's like (from reviews, other users, etc). Or, you contact the devs and ask if there's a money back guarantee. If there is, buy it with confidence. If not, don't buy it until you know what it's like.

[BigPixolin]

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=61998

[Vancross]

First of all being a Mac user, I hope that they decide to just release updates to get the mac version functional between now and ZB4. It also makes it hard for me to determine what I would like in ZB4 since the windows version may already have something that I would like to use.

My wish list for version 4 however would be(in no specific order):

1. Updated painting features

2. More intuitive and user friendly interoperability and map exporter

3. A truly useful render engine

4. I don't need a full animation solution but something like the ability to do some kind of stop motion thing would be cool, maybe using layers or a new sequential animation layer system along side what is already available would be even better.

5. Additional viewports besides the standard one to toggle into like front, back, top and sides, as well as one that can be set to snap to a designated numerical position.

6. Transpose is a nice step forward but something that is a bit easier to work with would be nice. I wouldn't mind a simple rigging system that could work along side transpose that would at least help to keep proportion in tacked.

7. An easier way to pull polys out of thin air. Retopologizing is cool but I don't know why you can't just click on a button and start laying polys.

[R10k]

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=61998

Haha... yeah, that's pretty funny ;)

[vsPiotr]

one more mac user here:

The free 4.0 upgrade sounds to me more like an apology than an offer. ..or a point upgrade not a feature release... may be it's the 3.5? IMHO it's a counter-mudbox publicity strategy.

the opinion that OSX is a minority market therefore they should be happy with what they got is fine if a product is free or the differences clearly pointed out (as with a lot of OSS).
I'd buy a limited mac version if the price reflected it (even if I had to pay for a fix later) and if Pixologic was HONEST about it up front (instead of finding out through a user forum).

Will be going to Mudbox for sure even though there's a lot of features I love about zB.

what would really make me prance around like a school girl would be a native LINUX version of either zBrush or Mudbox... although wine zB is not terrible.

[R10k]

Will be going to Mudbox for sure even though there's a lot of features I love about zB.

Why not use Zbrush and Mudbox? Whenever one program fails me, I turn to another for the job. Sometimes Zbrush is the answer to my problems, and sometimes not. That's just life in the digital art world. I get that Mac people got shafted when (by the look of it) something didn't quite go to plan at PixHQ, but I really don't get the, "Pixologic ran over my dog, so I'm moving to a new neighbourhood." mentality. Z4 will be a free update, so have some patience and see what happens. In the meantime if you want to get Mudbox, that's great. It's another tool in your toolbox. But, can we leave behind the 'one or the other' thing?

[cgisoul]

Why not use Zbrush and Mudbox? Whenever one program fails me, I turn to another for the job. Sometimes Zbrush is the answer to my problems, and sometimes not. That's just life in the digital art world. I get that Mac people got shafted when (by the look of it) something didn't quite go to plan at PixHQ, but I really don't get the, "Pixologic ran over my dog, so I'm moving to a new neighbourhood." mentality. Z4 will be a free update, so have some patience and see what happens. In the meantime if you want to get Mudbox, that's great. It's another tool in your toolbox. But, can we leave behind the 'one or the other' thing?

QFTA (Quoted For Total Agreement)

[vsPiotr]

Valid point R10k although often the systems don't talk to each other as well as one would like (tried FBX lately? :) )

I think for a lot of people running two apps is expensive and, especially in the case of zB's "unique" interface, it's hard to keep your skills fresh in both.

If I can hold out until August I will, even if just out of curiosity but if I land a project that needs sculpting now, I'm off to the other camp... whatever works; and at the moment it ain't mac zBrush.

[Vancross]

Well I like to think that 3.5 will still be released between now and ZB4, if only to fix the Mac issues. In all probability it will not but in the ZB4 release news it never stated that it wasn't still going to be. Given that ZB4 is more than likely in the testing phase now or extremely close to it, it would indeed be cool if 3.5 would be announced tomorrow heheh.

So instead of a yet a fix for the Mac version pushed even further I like to look at it as a fix being just around the corner and a brand new version coming close after! :D

[mastajappa]

I agree that they should fix the Zbrush3 mac version first. How can you revolutionize an artist world if you don't go all the way?

[vsPiotr]

Vancross, you're really a "glass 1/2 full" kind of guy aren't ya? :)

we can only hope you're right.

[R10k]

Good points vsPiotr. Obviously the ideal thing is to have one app that kicks bottom in every way, making pipeline issues a thing of the past. But, since 3D is a complex beast, and apps tend to 'one up' each other on a frequent (yearly?) basis, the kind of tool landscape we all have to deal with is an imperfect one :)

[hakanpersson]

hakanperssons' comments/suggestions sound a lot better (even though they mention importing as well

Thanks;) Then I was merely aiming at it's stability and feedback to the user. Merging heavy objects often result in crashes. Splitting polygroups can end up in zb scrambling your polygroups into confetti. Scaling objects often results in sculpting info being reprojected improperly (blowing details into proportions), or crashing during scaling.

The most unique in Zbrush is the 2.5D-canvas<>alpha<>texture relations (which btw makes me the only one here who wants to keep, it seems). I would like to see identical powers in terms of handling meshes aswell. The potential and the features are there for sure.

[thatoneguy]

I've used Zbrush quite a bit.

Enough that I can use it but I always feel like I"m using it.... in spite of itself.

"Your canvas is your viewport". Oh... I get it... I have to create a "Canvas" if I want to work with my "tool" and I have to "Scale" my tool to look closer at it. And then I save my "tool" out and I can import a model as a new "tool" and then save that "tool" for later. Then later when I want to work with my "tool" again I have to create a new "canvas" and "draw" my tool onto the canvas. But don't accidentally leave edit mode or else it'll get stuck in the canvas and you'll have to erase it and create another instance of it from the geometry tool again...

Zbrush is an application with an identity crisis. And I feel like I'm in some bizzaro circus land every time I start using it. I can never get that nagging little voice out of my head while working "This is all complete madness!"

And it's all senseless and correctable. That's what's so frustrating. All of it could be incredibly easily hidden away from the user. The whole dog and pony show could be pushed back into the architecture away from the user.

It's like all of these things you could sort of wink and nod along with when it was the only game in town. When it was something completely radical and new. When it was almost like "Wow they somehow hacked this 2.5d app into doing really nifty 3D stuff. That's a really great trick." But now that it's 'all grown up'. My tolerance for its idiosyncratic silliness wears thin. It used to be "You want me to call it a canvas. Fine whatever. I'll call it a Bonobo if it means I can work with 20 million poly models." Now it's "Oh grow up already."

All I want is a model I can spin around. Brushes which manipulate its shape. Multiple mesh densities. Layers. And the ability to scale the brush size by holding a hot key and scaling like corel painter and combustion and mudbox. I'm a simple man of simple needs. :D

[vsPiotr]

identity crisis indeed!

but then zBrush originated from something not quite 3D, and going to another app after zB was not really the goal.

It created a category for itself but is struggling to stay on top of it.
It's a shame because they have had some awesome ideas.

Anyone remember LivePicture? Feels like zB could go the same way.

[John Keates]

"As with previous versions of ZBrush, Pixologic is dedicated to develop tools that not only break the mold, but also reinvent it."

To me, that says they have cracked some kind of voxel painting. Lets hope so.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the interface isn't going to change all that much. It just doesn't seem to be in the mind-set of the creator. For the most part, painting is easy enough and you don't need much of an interface, but importing a re-topologised mesh from outside makes me feel like I am trying hack into an alien computer whilst stoned.

[cgisoul]

I would like to see a real 3D viewport.

[CHRiTTeR]

Its not a good idea anyway to make radicall changes to the UI too qiuckly.

PPl will start complaining they cant find their tools anymore, have to adjst their workflow, re-learn everything again... etc...

[ThE_JacO]

If this thread teaches us anything, it's that the word voxel is the new radiosity. Often thrown around, rarely in the correct context, almost never accurate to what the person actually thinks of.

Voxel painting in ZB? How exactly when it's a 2.5D solution?

[cheebamonkey]

Then again I could be eating my own words in 4-6 months when we see what the next releases of both packages have to offer.

I seriously doubt ZB4 will be out even in 9 months. They're notorious for being late.

Luckily MB has a large community putting out awesome work so it seems features in ZB aren't really missed in the MB as a whole. MB is easier to learn and the UI wasn't created by someone who seemingly had ADD while jacked up on 5 pots of coffee. It's quick, it's got a logical workflow and it seems to work for a lot of people.

On the other hand, ZB has been a mainstay for a few years, has a lot of cool features buried in its archaeic UI, and has a larger user base which seems to get over the UI for the simple fact that ZB is powerful.

There's a lot of good work being done in both programs so despite people bagging on MB or finding ZB a killer to learn from scratch, both are powerful.

[Nothingness]

Version 3.12 was just a quick temp release to get mac uses happy. And they failed miserably and why?: because some library's were already converted to universal ones that will be shared over both os's, and they didn't fit into the 3.12.
So if they still continues to make it all universal, then chance is bit that zb4 will be released both for mac and pc. This will also mean that most bugs for mac will be the same for pc. Cause of the library's. Only minimal bugs could exist where the code is an os-only one.

If this is not the case, and the mac version still sucks, then all mac users should ask for a payback instead of a crappy free upgrade. Maybe then they'll see the light?

Still no bad words for pixologic - although i feel a$$-****'d when you get to use zb3.12 for a job, and not being to use all of your hard work, not even on a win 3.1 - but i prefer them then autodesk. May i remind maya users about the whining we do for the lack of a 64bit? And here comes the clue - for me - why i still use mac: Cause the os doesn't stress me out AND that even buggy mac apps like maya still have advantages that pc version DON'T have.

And about that 10% market share: how many PC's are used in shools, businesses and retard-conventions ? If you would do a check, then you might find that 10% is simply not true. And a poll won't get you anywhere to proving a point.


now where the heck is 3.5
and my intuos-pen

[BitsAndBytes]

As for the ZB gui I doubt it will change much with the advent of ZB4, Zbrush is basically the brainchild of one single programmer/artist (Ofer Alon) and thus reflects his workflow. Personally I think the actual sculpting interaction in ZB is brilliant since it's super easy to mask, hide, rotate, zoom and otherwise interact with the mesh using a minimum of input. However as soon as I venture outside the scope of sculpting I find ZBrush's gui/layout/workflow very awkward compared to Mudbox for instance. That said, ZBrush is first and foremost a sculpting package and this is where it shines and I'm guessing also the reason it still sits comfortably at the top.

As for voxels, I tried one of the 3dcoat alphas (the programmer seem to work like a genius on crack, does he ever sleep?) and although the tool<->voxel interaction felt kind of crude it certainly opened up some interesting workflows. One thing though, atleast in the alpha I tried there seemed to be no way to move down in voxel density (like the way you jump up and down in subdivision levels in ZBrush and Mudbox) which put me in the equivalent situation of starting sculpting on a heavily subdivided mesh which isn't very ideal. Has there been any change in this area?

Anyway, voxels certainly has it's strenghts but I'm not too sure polygons needs to be replaced just yet.

[HenrikLundberg]

LOLS teaser for zbrush so over the top. I mean If I can I will get it but tbh mudbox pwns a lot too so I got that which gotten good with. But hopefully they might bring some new features in zbrush (animating ability?) and make it more user friendly

[Nemoid]

The good thing about ZB is that you can literally create shapes fron scratch into an easy way. It is a strange app, because it was born upon a 2.5 d paint app, so its not a traditional 3d application. surely , the UI and some of the workflows don't help people used to traditional 3d apps , to work easily since the start.

Mudbox its quite the opposite: different technology and its way more similar to a 3d app, but its built to be part of a pipeline in which you start things into traditional apps, then you import, sculpt, export maps and more.

evolution of ZB, should be towards a more simplified/logic workflow, more similar to what Mudbox offers, even if the technology behing the app is way different. what i'd like to see is

paint system more similar to photoshop with layers and fusion mehods
better retopology tools
evolution of transpose into something valid to "rig" a character for better posing
posssibility to save, reuse /attach z sphere parts to existent zsphere tools :D
UV unwrap and UV managing toolset
more than one UV per object(tool)
possibility to paint/export easily different kinda maps like diffusion, AO, reflection map, etc and easily export that within your 3d app of choice

there would be more, but i stop here

[Buexe]

I think the only real feature ZBrush needs now is a floating-server, because their license activation-"strategy" sucks in multi-user environments.

[aarontheanimator]

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program.

That's a rather stupid point of view. You must be bitter from using a PC all these years. Having to write a program for 2 operating systems, reinforces the software. It makes them double check everything. It also brings in profit for the company. So get off your high-horse. Not everyone supports PC operating systems and doesn't believe that they are good enough to dual boot their bug-ridden software.

[Nemoid]

No mac user, but simply as that:
when you promise a version of your program working for Mac,or whatever other platform, it has to work as promised. Period.

[BigPixolin]

All they did was miss their own date by 6+ months and change the name to a 4 and people are so excited.
They never gave the mac people the 2 version they bought? If I remember correctly.
They then were 3 months late releasing 3.
Which when released did not fully work until 3.1
Then was a year and a half late with the mac version 3.
Which when released did not fully work.
Then missed numerous announcements of announcements about 3.5.
Then said 3.5 in December.
Missed that date and did the super hero contest as a diversion.
Mudbox releases mac version they slap a 4 onto a graphic and WOOHOO!
Did I forget anything?

Does anybody honestly think we will be using a complete version of zbrush 4 in August?
I know I whining just to whine now there is no reason what-so-ever for people to be skeptical.

[John Keates]

If this thread teaches us anything, it's that the word voxel is the new radiosity. Often thrown around, rarely in the correct context, almost never accurate to what the person actually thinks of.

Voxel painting in ZB? How exactly when it's a 2.5D solution?

Voxels were around years ago, I don't see them as a new buzz word.

Voxels are cool because you don't have to worry about topology (in the original a mathematical sense of number of anuli (holes) or tares.

Zbrush is 2.5d but in a very 3D way ("tools" are more 3D than the 2.5d canvas). That 3D information must be in there somewhere otherwise how do you export it? So I don't think voxel painting is impossible in Zbrush.

[Pepril]

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program
That's a rather stupid point of view. You must be bitter from using a PC all these years. Having to write a program for 2 operating systems, reinforces the software. It makes them double check everything. It also brings in profit for the company. So get off your high-horse. Not everyone supports PC operating systems and doesn't believe that they are good enough to dual boot their bug-ridden software.

I actually have to agree with ZacD. I have had some experience developing 3d software and developing for the MAC can be a huge drain on new innovation and stability to the base (PC) application. This is especially true since MAC standards are continually changing. Most of the time is spent chasing your MAC OS tail and not focusing on the application at all. I feel unless the app is designed from the start to support both platforms in its core then its a bit of a waste to split the development. The MAC userbase in 3D is just to small (but loyal and loud) and not worth the development funds.

Im afraid this is just the reality. The fact is that I am a Linux and MAC user at heart but not in practice. I love the Lunix and MAC OS and use to even teach shell scripting classes. I think if you want to enjoy your experience on the MAC or Linux you will need to lag behind the cutting edge and deal with some major unaddressed bugs in software. I think this can be AOK because while I'm a cutting edge junky, really amazing artwork can get created with the tools that are one or 2 versions behind.

Thanks
Pep

[ThE_JacO]

Voxels were around years ago, I don't see them as a new buzz word.

Voxels are cool because you don't have to worry about topology (in the original a mathematical sense of number of anuli (holes) or tares.

Zbrush is 2.5d but in a very 3D way ("tools" are more 3D than the 2.5d canvas). That 3D information must be in there somewhere otherwise how do you export it? So I don't think voxel painting is impossible in Zbrush.
I have a pretty decent idea of what voxels are and what they imply, what I was commenting on is how now everybody throws around words like "voxel painting" like if it was a legitimate feature request for any painting/sculpting app.
As for voxels meaning you don't have to worry about topology, that's just as incorrect as the above comments. You don't worry about topology until the last stages of the process when you have tools not to, whether it's meshing blobs or starting from a lattice and filling it in is the difference between geometry and voxels is irrelevant if you don't have those tools, and using geometry doesn't prevent you from starting without a base mesh.

Exactly the same way a few years ago pople were using the words GI and radiosity interchangably and often for the wrong thing.

[Pepril]

I'm very excited about Zbrush 4. The only real info here is that it will be a "full point" upgrade. That indicates major innovation and change. I hope this is the case.

Putting a teaser out like this with no other info is a really bad marketing choice. I think 4 months is too long and no info (screen caps, videos) is even worse. They should have leaked an unauthorized screen cap or 2 to keep peoples ears peeked and then maybe rolled out a proper 3 or 2 month marketing campaign up until August.

Thanks
Pep

[BitsAndBytes]

Pixologic's numerous delays have already been stated by several people here in this thread BigPixolin. And many (like me) are very sceptical regarding the august release due to their history of missed target dates. That does not however change the fact that I'm excited by ZBrush 4, since my excitement is based on their achievements sofar when it comes to pushing the boundaries of digital sculpting. So yeah you can bitch and moan about all the failed release dates/estimates and I can't fault you for that (although it's kind of pointless since it will be done when it's done and no moaning will change that), but despite these constant delays ZBrush is still the top dog and that is due to them raising the bar in terms of capacity and innovation with each release they make (which likely has alot to do with their problems with deadlines since like others said it is alot harder to innovate than it is to duplicate).

[lovisx]

I have a pretty decent idea of what voxels are and what they imply, what I was commenting on is how now everybody throws around words like "voxel painting" like if it was a legitimate feature request for any painting/sculpting app.
As for voxels meaning you don't have to worry about topology, that's just as incorrect as the above comments. You don't worry about topology until the last stages of the process when you have tools not to, whether it's meshing blobs or starting from a lattice and filling it in is the difference between geometry and voxels is irrelevant if you don't have those tools, and using geometry doesn't prevent you from starting without a base mesh.

Exactly the same way a few years ago pople were using the words GI and radiosity interchangably and often for the wrong thing.

I've tried 3d coats voxel painting, I think it's a very valid feature if you want to sculpt and not worry about topology. I was able to hollow out a skull starting from just a sphere. It is more akin to true sculpting in my opinion. With it you can sculpt and create extrusions/branches/holes by just sculpting them instead of having to fiddle with zsphers, blobs, lattices, or quad modeling. I can see myself using it to create much more complex forms faster and more intuitively than other workflows. Have you tried it yet? Definetly won't kill sub-d sculpting, but certainly an asset in any maquet artist's tool kit. But anyways, this is how innovation starts, by using technology in new ways. I don't see what new innovation zbrush 4 will introduce that's more revolutionary or legitimate than voxel sculpting.

[ThE_JacO]

Yes, I have tried it, and am a big fan of it, particularly for the dev cycles and userbase feedback loop.
Voxel however shouldn't be the catchword people are turning it into.

A voxel is a discrete unit of a partitioned volume, nothing more, nothing less. It isn't its prerogative to make modelling topology independent (you can develop a voxel based system that does take topology into account if you want), and it's not the only way to make modelling topolgy independent either (metaprimitives are just as valid and can be used in geometry based solutions).

ZBrush is also currentlya 2.5D solution. While not by any means impossible, I see it unlikely that they will suddenly thow away the backbone of most of their work overnight and move to a lattice voxel system anytime soon, which makes "voxel painting" sound funny when you wouldn't be painting voxels anyway.
People are asking for a Porsche when they really want a RWD. Porsche isn't the only brand offering it, and RWD/RE isn't the only way to go about it.
Also there seems to be some assumption that voxels are something newer and fancier than other solutions, which doesn't account for the fact that, like any other system, they have ups and downs, they're not a magic bullet that makes everything better.

After you're done in 3Dcoat you still need to retopo something before it can be used for anywhere else, and that's perfectly possible and reasonable to ask for in other apps too regardless of their backbone.

In short: stop confusing a technical decision for an application's backend with the way you wish your application could work.

[lovisx]

Maybe we should refer to it as volume sculpting for this particular type of workflow? Would that be more legitimate? A 2.5D pixol is practically a voxel anyways.

[angel]

Cool, I hope they start posting beta images like they did with v3, at least to have some eye candy to look at. :)

[DestroyerU]

I've used Zbrush quite a bit.


All I want is a model I can spin around. Brushes which manipulate its shape. Multiple mesh densities. Layers. And the ability to scale the brush size by holding a hot key and scaling like corel painter and combustion and mudbox. I'm a simple man of simple needs. :D

Wow, I would go back to the manual if I were you.

Zbrush can do everything you wish already. Study harder. Some people have a hard time with new stuff. Don't be embarrassed. Or maybe you just need to wait for a new version...dunno.

(Press "S" to scale your brush) :)

[mental]

Wow, I would go back to the manual if I were you.
I'm fairly sure that was a tongue in cheek statement on his part.

[AJ]

I have it on pretty good authority that this release will have 'speculation'.

It sounds excellent!

[GuineaPog]

Yeah I bet the mac version might be lacking in the update. Im seriously contemplating getting zbrush after a semester of playing with it on the schools computers. I got a mac laptop. But yeah there was a metric ton of issues with the mac ver with zbrush, and the new mudbox for mac is tempting (although I haven't taken it for a spin.) On the other hand, free updates is so unbelievably pro.

[el_diablo]

Maybe we should refer to it as volume sculpting for this particular type of workflow? Would that be more legitimate? A 2.5D pixol is practically a voxel anyways.

pixols have one value per z axis(depth) so they are still far away from voxel volume as is. 3dcoat's voxels you need to polygonize (make limit mesh) for animation and such but not for rendering if andrew makes an common format voxel exporter (which I'm sure he will do soon).

[PiotrekM]

I don't get it. They've annouced next version, NOTHING MORE.

This thread is 11 pages long about the fact that there WILL BE zbrush 4.

So anybody can spam cg news forum with useless topics about the fact that there will be next versions of softimage, max, maya, 3dcoat, mudbox, cinema, vray, brazil, finalrender,...........,... ?

[SheepFactory]

I don't get it. They've annouced next version, NOTHING MORE.

This thread is 11 pages long about the fact that there WILL BE zbrush 4.




Welcome to cgtalk.

[toluabisola]

Welcome to cgtalk.

Nicely put :thumbsup:

[GQ1]

To our Mac brethren I feel your pain.

But to continually give free upgrades after all these years and especially now, this truly speaks Mega volumes about character of a company.
From an artist point of view I say they simply do just get it.

[Magnus3D]

Perhaps it's a good idea to atleast give Pixologic a chance to reveal what's new and fixed in Zbrush 4 before we toss them on the bbq..

/ Magnus

[lovisx]

pixols have one value per z axis(depth) so they are still far away from voxel volume as is. 3dcoat's voxels you need to polygonize (make limit mesh) for animation and such but not for rendering if andrew makes an common format voxel exporter (which I'm sure he will do soon).

Yeah, I don't know anything about that. I probably shouldn't have made that statement.

[BigPixolin]

Perhaps it's a good idea to atleast give Pixologic a chance to reveal what's new and fixed in Zbrush 4 before we toss them on the bbq..

/ Magnus

Maybe it would of been a good idea for them to realease that info and not just the number 4.

[ZacD]

I think they should of skipped ahead to number 7 because its the next lucky number

[philnolan3d]

So we have to wait until August to see if they'll catch up to where 3DC is at now?

[Stonepilot]

OK, ZBrush 4 is a free upgrade. Whoooohooooo. ZBrush 4 i love you.

[Pietas]

Just been reading that so many find the zbrush controls awkward. I don't get it. I think it's a stroke of genius. Tried mudbox for half the duration of the trail and I gave up. working with a sculpting program that forces you to use the buttons on your mouse?? My hand hurted after 30min of sculpting. Got the feeling that mudbox was the result of a program made by programmers and programmers alone. It also stands as a much more standalone program than mudbox. With things like zSpheres and retopo you can actually sculpt something within zbrush from beginning to end.
And since when was pixo ‘the big bad wolf’? I’ll kiss the ground the walk on for getting digital sculpting to where it is today.
No.. I’m a big fan. Still remember when zbrush 3 was released. Was the best thing since sliced bread. And with plugin like subtool master, zapplink and damio brush on top, it’s the best damn bread I ever tasted.
I believe in zbrush4. I’m sure it’s no ‘reply to mudbox new features like HDRI’. Think they’ll once again show what innovation means.
But ok.. I wish they could hyped their program a bit more like luxology do with modo 401.

[philnolan3d]

Wow that surprises me. The first time I opened ZB I looked at the interface and went "What?". The first time I opened the MB interface I jumped in and started working. Had a very similar experience with 3DC.

[JWRodegher]

Tried mudbox for half the duration of the trail and I gave up. working with a sculpting program that forces you to use the buttons on your mouse??

Dude, stop being a fanboy. It's annoying. You like zbrush better, fine, cool, knock yourself out. But mudbox forces you to use the mouse buttons? wtf are you talking about?

I'm waiting to see what the next release will bring to the table.

[ZacD]

Dude, stop being a fanboy. It's annoying. You like zbrush better, fine, cool, knock yourself out. But mudbox forces you to use the mouse buttons? wtf are you talking about?

I'm waiting to see what the next release will bring to the table.

I haven't used MB much but that seems like such a lame excuse, set up some keyboard short cuts/use them.

[thatoneguy]

This thread is 11 pages long about the fact that there WILL BE zbrush 4.

In absence of something to talk about... a thread becomes a de-facto off-topic forum to discuss whatever.

It's like a birthday party. You usually only talk about the birthday for 3 minutes and then the birthday aspect of it becomes incidental. :D

[ThE_JacO]

pixols have one value per z axis(depth) so they are still far away from voxel volume as is. 3dcoat's voxels you need to polygonize (make limit mesh) for animation and such but not for rendering if andrew makes an common format voxel exporter (which I'm sure he will do soon).
You can render it the same way you can render a brick map to a colour channel. It doesn't mean it's very useful, especially when the tool is geared towards work (solid objects) that do end up actually needing the topological basis to be useful.

It's an exercise in style to render characters off a lattice. Nice and can do many interesting things, but only useful to the same extent of ZB's renders (predefined shading, showing off a model etc). Doesn't go very far outside that context and into production of actual shots.

[spiralof5]

Dual boot anyone? Stop making software developers waste time money and resources making their app work on another OS when you can easily switch back and forth. I'd rather see them put that time and money on one OS expanding on the program.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Make the consumer spend more money so developers can be lazy. Brilliant. Oh wait, Blender has every version, mac, windows, linux and it's free. Can't be too hard to translate if a bunch of college kids can do it.

On top of that OS X is way more efficient in its memory usage and CPU usage.

You are about as snobbish with your post as Bill Gates is to better operating systems. We are more popular, so we win. Stop wasting our time with other OS's and succumb to the subpar efficiency that is that of windows. Not only should you succumb, but now that you spent 5,000 on your beautiful OctoCore Mac, but you have to now pay another couple hundred on an operating system (Vista) that is horrible. On top of that, since we haven't made you pay enough, You have to get another Internal drive so that you can run windows. Rubbish mate, just rubbish.

[Layer01]

lol, its pretty funny that its come to this. The makers of an AMAZING industry changing software announce that they are about to release their next version. As a FREE upgrade!!!
And still people are complaining!?

Don't forget that in recent times pixologic have also been undergoing a major overhaul to their services, with the support center, the zbrush classrooms, the alpha library, the matcap library, the texture library, the plugin library, turntable gallary...all pretty good things imho.

And if some of the people complaining about how ~weird~ Zbrush is actually took the time to learn some of its workflows, you'd quickly find that it really isn't that hard to understand and you'd open yourself up to a whole new world of creativity.

[ThE_JacO]

I don't see anybody complaining about the update being free.
It seems to me that people are complaining the fact this upgrade means that the 3.5 promised to fix a number of things people forked out money for has disappeared, and they have to wait even longer to get something at all. Or about the fact that an announcement about a new version that shows nothing isn't exactly encouraging.
But I guess you can read whatever you want in the posts, complaining about the complainers is just as fun as being one after all :)

[NeptuneImaging]

This is some sweet news to me. Sure I love my copy of ZB 3.1, I am not going to turn down a free upgrade. I just hope that they include the polypaint layers and the ability to paint diffuse spec and bump this time....it is tough to keep cloning the tool if i need different maps. Go Pixo

[R10k]

But I guess you can read whatever you want in the posts, complaining about the complainers is just as fun as being one after all

To make sure we can all share in the joy of complaining next time there's a Pixologic announcement, let's request a ton of things they can't possibly deliver.

My Z4 wish list:

- Must make a good cup of tea
- Must have a Viewcube
- Must be exactly like Mudbox, but better in every way
- The entire program must be made from voxels

I'm looking forward to complaining!

[vlad74]

Tried mudbox for half the duration of the trail and I gave up. working with a sculpting program that forces you to use the buttons on your mouse?? My hand hurted after 30min of sculpting. Got the feeling that mudbox was the result of a program made by programmers and programmers alone.

??????
The best way to sculpt is using a tablet not a mouse. Then try Mudbox again.
And your statement about the programmers is reeeeeeally far from the reality. Traditional sculptors find MB extremely easy to learn and can start sculpting in an hour.

Anyway. Love ZB and MB. Both are great.

[Tecy]

Few things both features and fixes I hope that are delivered which are relaistic:

1: Removable tools to stop the clutter.
2: Paint in Layers.
3: HD sculpting into Displacments and bump.
4: Improoved retopology.
5: Improoved mesh projection. (no more caved in eyes)
6: Improoved perspective.
7: Multiple real time views
8: 64 bit.
9: Recording zscripts to be working. (Broken)
10: Zoom in closer. (Essencial for retopology)
11: Better transparecy for layers.
12: Updated posing system.
13: better Uv tools.
14: Smooth Texture maps. (Broken)
15: Tilt used for Wacom intuos pens.
16: Better lighting setup. (easyer to place)
17: Render, and Bake AO maps.
18: Store and repair point order problems.
19: Better move tool (Handle for selelcting and moving verts, edges and faces)
20: Its released on time for both platforms:
21: The new features work how they should.

[Ballo]

Fantastic! I'm a really disappointed mudbox user that right now works more faster with zbrush.

[rcallicotte]

First link is broken. This is the live link - http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=070082

[Pepril]

I don't see anybody complaining about the update being free.

OK let me be the first then :)

If there were a more timely 3.5 with bugfixes I don't think anyone would have an issue paying $200 or $300 for a 4.0 upgrade with an innovative new feature set (maybe a poll is in order?). I would really prefer this and feel like in the long run it is much better for the users and developers.

I guess the question is, would you rather pay a reasonable fee for a substantial upgrade and have a more thriving, and infused application development. Or get yet another release for free and possibly be concerned that your app of choice that you have spent a ton of time learning, tweaking, and building pipelines around might fail and peter out in the next few years from lack of funds? I don't work for PL and don't know there situation but the latter concerns me.

Thanks
Pep

[Chokmah]

Zbrush 4 is announced ?
Hmm good news to me, even the fact I'm sure we'll have to wait .

Despite that, I understand Mac users, that have to wait with unforgivable bugs of Zbrush 3.12 .

And about to waiting time .
I prefer waiting more time to get a huge innovation from this next version and good bug fixes .

Of ZBrush UI ? I use many softwares including Zbrush and Mudbox .
I like to two of them, and sometimes a software need learning time (Softimage? Maya?) but the user is often rewarded by this learning .

[BigPixolin]

OK let me be the first then :)

If there were a more timely 3.5 with bugfixes I don't think anyone would have an issue paying $200 or $300 for a 4.0 upgrade with an innovative new feature set (maybe a poll is in order?). I would really prefer this and feel like in the long run it is much better for the users and developers.

I guess the question is, would you rather pay a reasonable fee for a substantial upgrade and have a more thriving, and infused application development. Or get yet another release for free and possibly be concerned that your app of choice that you have spent a ton of time learning, tweaking, and building pipelines around might fail and peter out in the next few years from lack of funds? I don't work for PL and don't know there situation but the latter concerns me.

Thanks
Pep

All people see is a number 4 and the word FREE. Thats all we know about it. Thats all they need apparently.
Both mean nothing to me.
4 is a new name for a delayed 3.5
If you use zbrush anywhere near production paying a $200 or so fee every 2+ years is a drop in the bucket.
I'd rather pay and get what is announced when it is announced. Other than half the software a half year late.

When 3 was released people who just bought it didn't get what they paid for until 3.1.
All the freeloaders were saying why are you complaing it is free?

Do the people who are just happy it is free use it in production and do you get paid from your zbrush work?

[alexentremont]

If you use zbrush anywhere near production paying a $200 or so fee every 2+ years is a drop in the bucket.
I'd rather pay and get what is announced when it is announced. Other than half the software a half year late.
Yep. A paying upgrade would perhaps help hire some more developers...

[Poisen]

i think a good half of these problems with Zbrush arent so much as "software" related.
but rather more like "skill" and "experience" related problems. :wip:

but thats just me stirring the pot a little more.....lol

[ZacD]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Make the consumer spend more money so developers can be lazy. Brilliant. Oh wait, Blender has every version, mac, windows, linux and it's free. Can't be too hard to translate if a bunch of college kids can do it.

On top of that OS X is way more efficient in its memory usage and CPU usage.

You are about as snobbish with your post as Bill Gates is to better operating systems. We are more popular, so we win. Stop wasting our time with other OS's and succumb to the subpar efficiency that is that of windows. Not only should you succumb, but now that you spent 5,000 on your beautiful OctoCore Mac, but you have to now pay another couple hundred on an operating system (Vista) that is horrible. On top of that, since we haven't made you pay enough, You have to get another Internal drive so that you can run windows. Rubbish mate, just rubbish.

I never attacked macs or osx, I just said people are expecting too much from software developers. Don't take it personally and make personal attacks back at me. The only reason I'm even responding to this is because you are attacking me and an OS, which were both completely uncalled for.

1. I didn't realize the mac version didn't have a free trial to try it out, it was a jerk move by ZBrush, my bad.

2. Have you ever tried taking a windows program and making it work on OSX? its not a quick and easy process. Its not a small task at all, most of the program has to be rewritten. There's a reason almost all games aren't made on both osx and windows.

3. "On top of that OS X is way more efficient in its memory usage and CPU usage. "
Completely biased statement, it comes down to the program more than the OS, compare the speed of different tasks in maya, xsi, and max, there's a much larger difference when comparing those, but show me some evidence that osx is much faster in maya/max than a similar machine in windows. I could say PC's are have better ram and cpu usage for the price.

4. I never said osx is better/worse than windows, it isn't its just different. It all comes down to preference. Some companies (Softimage) stated before that it'd rather spend its money and resources making the best app they can than expanding it to another OS, its the companies choice. If I couldn't live without an app thats only on OSX, I'd buy a mac.

5. OSX isn't that much different than windows, stop worshiping it (and $5,000 for a computer that will be out dated in a year is crazy, I'd rather spend 1.5K on a pc that's practically just as decent and get a new one every year). You can get vista for $70 bucks OEM. Vista has never crashed on me, in fact I've never had an issue in over a year with it, I can't say the same for my school's mac pro. Its macs fault you need to get another HDD for it, so don't blame microsoft for that one.

[Pietas]

Dude, stop being a fanboy. It's annoying. You like zbrush better, fine, cool, knock yourself out. But mudbox forces you to use the mouse buttons? wtf are you talking about?

Sorry that speaking my mind annoy you so much. I’m a fan, no doubt.

??????
The best way to sculpt is using a tablet not a mouse. Then try Mudbox again.


Sorry. My bad. of course I meant a pen. it's annoying to always press the back of my pen to tumble around the screen. 'Cause you do that every second of sculpting. Looked for the settings, but never found an option to change that.

People are bashing zbrush so much for its steep learning curve. I say it's not bad at all. I have been teaching quite a few people in zbrush and the all get it within 20min. Compared to MB 2min, I don't think that's too bad when I feel that the layout is done like that for a reason.

Guess I'm stirring to much up, so I'll shut up now

[mental]

Sorry. My bad. of course I meant a pen. it's annoying to always press the back of my pen to tumble around the screen. 'Cause you do that every second of sculpting. Looked for the settings, but never found an option to change that.
Installing the Wacom driver allows you to map the navigation keys to the proper buttons on the pen on an application to application basis. I would not rely on the default tablet drivers that come with Windows mainly because pressure sensitivity would not function otherwise.

Alt + Pen Tip = Orbit
Alt + Lower Button = Pan
Alt + Upper Button (or Alt + Pen Tip + Lower Button) = Zoom
Eraser = Disabled

[Pietas]

Installing the Wacom driver allows you to map the navigation keys to the proper buttons on the pen on an application to application basis. I would not rely on the default tablet drivers that come with Windows mainly because pressure sensitivity would not function otherwise.

of course I do! Have a cintiq and been using it for years.
back of the pen, front of the pen. both are bad. anyways enough of this :)
sorry for highjacking thread in to something stupid. Just trying to say that I like zbrush's way of orbiting!

[rcallicotte]

Complaining about an amazing product upgrading its customers for free is a sign of insanity.

[philnolan3d]

Some may call it amazing, but it's not without it's flaws that's for sure.

[BigPixolin]

Zbrush is amazing but...
Sitting around, waiting for missed release date after missed release date for a incomplete piece of software for free is a sign of not using it in production.

[DaddyMack]

To make sure we can all share in the joy of complaining next time there's a Pixologic announcement, let's request a ton of things they can't possibly deliver.

My Z4 wish list:

- Must make a good cup of tea
- Must have a Viewcube
- Must be exactly like Mudbox, but better in every way
- The entire program must be made from voxels

I'm looking forward to complaining!

Tea? Tea is like 1990s tech man... I want mine to deliver cappucinos

lol at your post bro, I'm a happy Zbrush and Mudbox user, been so since each came into existence. I look forward to seeing where the mental folk at pixologic go with this

[vlad74]

To make sure we can all share in the joy of complaining next time there's a Pixologic announcement, let's request a ton of things they can't possibly deliver.

My Z4 wish list:

- Must make a good cup of tea
- Must have a Viewcube
- Must be exactly like Mudbox, but better in every way
- The entire program must be made from voxels

I'm looking forward to complaining!

Hahahaha. Didnt see this one. It must me made from voxels. Second that.

[ZacD]

To make sure we can all share in the joy of complaining next time there's a Pixologic announcement, let's request a ton of things they can't possibly deliver.

My Z4 wish list:

- Must make a good cup of tea
- Must have a Viewcube
- Must be exactly like Mudbox, but better in every way
- The entire program must be made from voxels

I'm looking forward to complaining!

Best post of the thread.

[ThE_JacO]

2. Have you ever tried taking a windows program and making it work on OSX? its not a quick and easy process. Its not a small task at all, most of the program has to be rewritten. There's a reason almost all games aren't made on both osx and windows.
At this point I have to ask: Have you?
Clearly not if you ask me.

You make a lot of statements on what's easy and what's hard to code, but you might not realize how little sense they make, particularly the games comment.
Not all code has to be rewritten for a port, in fact, if you did things smartly, not that much has to.
Many SW vendors with small teams have no problems keeping multiple platforms up to date and aligned on 2 or 3 different operating systems, and I can guarantee that doesn't double their development efforts.
Just have a look at C4D, their team isn't exactly huge afaik, yet their releases are always aligned and feature complete in both camps.

[DragonSFX]

what happened to the teaser thread?? it is gone now :-[

[ZacD]

We obviously ZBrush wasn't originally planned to be ported to osx, But I do see your point.

[BitsAndBytes]

For the mac users, Pixologic just announced Zbrush 3.12B for OSX to be released Monday april 27th. Hopefully that will take care of the outstanding bugs you guys are suffering from:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=70133

[Phrenzy84]

Have Mac users' prays been answered?

ZBrush 3.12B contains optimizations and feature adjustments of ZBrush 3.12

The update will be a free download for all ZBrush OSX registered users

Update instructions will be posted here on Monday, April 27, 2009

*** Announcing Zbrush 3.12B OSX *** (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=559990)


edit:// beaten to the post, by BitsAndBytes grrr :p

[Buexe]

Wow, these coincidences these days...so complaining does work, doesn`t it?

[Lone Deranger]

The squeeky wheel gets the grease... as the saying goes.

Very glad to see it... it's about time.
Thank you Pixologic...

Wow, these coincidences these days...so complaining does work, doesn`t it?

[Chokmah]

Zbrush is amazing but...
Sitting around, waiting for missed release date after missed release date for a incomplete piece of software for free is a sign of not using it in production.

It the most strange news I learned recently !

Zbrush not used in production ?

Have you really worked in production in fact ?

All the video game studios I worked for, use Zbrush ...
Some animation studio I work for too ...

[Vancross]

Didn't I say ZB3.12 was around the corner! haha And thats my glass half full!! :beer:
:thumbsup:

[MotleyPete]

For the mac users, Pixologic just announced Zbrush 3.12B for OSX to be released Monday april 27th. Hopefully that will take care of the outstanding bugs you guys are suffering from:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=70133

Awesome!

That's really great news.

[CaptainSensible]

Hopefully it will fix those bugs. Thank you once again Pixologic! :)

[BigPixolin]

It the most strange news I learned recently !

Zbrush not used in production ?

Have you really worked in production in fact ?

All the video game studios I worked for, use Zbrush ...
Some animation studio I work for too ...

Thats not what I was implying.
I was saying if somebody is comfortable getting lied to, waiting for missed date again and again all for software that when released if history repeats itself, released without all it's features just becuase it is free. That is a sign they may not be using it in production.
I'd rather pay like everything else to get what they say when they say it.

Good move the release for the mac guys. More than just talk to keep them from jumping to mudbox. Like the 4 announcment was.:thumbsup:

[BUZZFX]

*** Announcing Zbrush 3.12B OSX *** (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=559990)

Keep up the good PR Pixologic and you may make a believer out of me again! :thumbsup:

Mac User

[AdanVC]

wow! zbrush 4!, well, im excited but not so much, because zbrush 3.1 is so cool! and im okay with that :D zbrush rules!

[rock]

One culmulative feature of ZBrush that I always like is the interface communicating back to the viewer. For instance, when you change the brush size, the interface draw an interactive circle. When you sculpt a concave, it change to a minus sign with a red colour. But it should done for all interactions. Mudbox doesn't have as much interactive display. This feature is useful when a viewer watch a tutorial, so that the view can see what tool and what actions the artist is activating - especially on a video without sound or one with timelapse. In an NFL game on TV, if there's a penalty out of the TV view occurs, the referee would throw a yellow flag on the ground, but the TV viewer will not know that the penalty has occured. So the TV producer decided to put a yellow flag icon when the yellow flag is thrown on the ground. The states of the game is communicated back to the viewer more fully.

[kiwi]

Indeed.Pay fee = more devs and quicker turnaround.Or does it mean expanding with more stuff most do not want? It is incredibly hard to tell without knowing Pixos vision for Zbrush.

I wonder if the free upgrades might be,because they know,they cannot meet expectations of timelines.

I am curious,what features {Zbrush now has} do you personally think we could do without?


Yay the Mac version update!

[DimensionalPunk]

Indeed.Pay fee = more devs and quicker turnaround.Or does it mean expanding with more stuff most do not want? It is incredibly hard to tell without knowing Pixos vision for Zbrush.

I wonder if the free upgrades might be,because they know,they cannot meet expectations of timelines.

I am curious,what features {Zbrush now has} do you personally think we could do without?


Yay the Mac version update!

Strip it down to basically Mudbox's features + Transpose, Zspheres, and retopologize. Get rid of everything else, maybe make this a special version or something.

[DanielWray]

Why not just mudbox then.


Zbrush has it's own quirks and good on it for doing that and keeping ahead of the game.

At the end of the day, if a guy with a hammer and chisel can make a master piece then we shouldn't have any problem with either software package we use in this day and age.

[cgisoul]

Strip it down to basically Mudbox's features + Transpose, Zspheres, and retopologize. Get rid of everything else, maybe make this a special version or something.

I'm a true believer that AD will add all these features into Mudbox. Nothing against AD, but as we know, they are famous and good in two things: acquiring companies and not reinventing the wheel (implementing what others already have into their products). I personally don't see anything wrong with that, as long there's always an introduction of new ways in achieving one task. So, again, Mudbox will indeed have all that when the timing is right.

[Vancross]

I think that AD will keep mudbox pretty close to how it is. I think they want to have people use it along side maya or max so its always going to be more like a plugin to those applications rather than a stand alone package. I think they will want to keep the workflow something like; maya to mudbox then back again to maya. And if I was a new artist that was trying to get work in games using AD products I probably wouldn't give much thought to ZB because of just that.

This type of thing may be desirable to users that have a professional base in traditional 3D but to most of the users of zbrush I don't see how it would be. Most of my digital life I have used traditional means of modeling and can say that zbrush is way faster and not only because you can sculpt with it but because of its unique workflow. I think 3dcoat may be more likely to follow zbrush in functionality than mudbox is. And even if mudbox does; the tools will more than likely be some watered down version of those within max and/or maya.

But if you do desire such a workflow then you can already get it by using both I would say. Like ZB and mudbox in conjunction before and/or after maya. But right now I think that mudbox does all that its users need it to do. On the other hand there are things for instance that I need that mudbox just can't do and are slower to get done in max or maya.

[belseth]

Haha! Oh man, I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever have to pay for upgrades. =] Seriously, it's been over 5 years since I paid for this app and it's been one hell of a great ride. Every release leaps and bounds better than the last.

Cheers to pixologic!
And they still haven't fixed the interface. I stopped using it because I couldn't get it to export anything more than a 1024X1024 texture map in version 3.0. I tried everything but it stubbornly down res'ed. I even contacted them about downgrading but I finally gave up. The interface is the most user unfriendly I've ever seen, okay Blender is worse but at least it's free. It's frustrating because it's a bast to sculpt with and the painting still works better than Modo but the interface is a screaming pain. I find if I don't use it for a few months I'm almost back to square one in the learning curve it's so nonintuitive. The irony was after waiting all those years for 3.0 it all but bricked the software for me. Also they promised to fix the interface the whole time. Other than adding more features which made it even harder to use nothing changed. It's essentially the same as 2.0. If they are worried about Mudbox fix the interface. The reason I jumped to Mudbox was ease of use. Listen to your users.

[Gwot]

Too bad for you I guess. I've never had a problem with it and I use it almost daily. Not sure why you chose to quote me for basically giving encouragement for a product I value.

[Spin99]

If there were a more timely 3.5 with bugfixes I don't think anyone would have an issue paying $200 or $300 for a 4.0 upgrade with an innovative new feature set (maybe a poll is in order?). I would really prefer this and feel like in the long run it is much better for the users and developers.Hello? Excuse me?
Did you read the announcement? It says FREE.
You like to pay for free stuff. Ok. Yes everybody would have an issue.
I would?

It's another free upgrade! Pixologic rocks :buttrock:

[Nemoid]

Pixologic is cool they give upgrades for free, and innovate with every release they make.

The only thing they need is a better communication with userbase about the program development. some hints from time to time are necessary IMO, because people tends to just speculate too much and have negative feelings after too much silence from the software house... in this field i'd say Luxology rules big time, so, it is a good inspiration.:)

[cgbeige]

Mac users should be happy they have the freedom to use multiple OS, and stop complaining :surprised Beggars can't be choosers.

lol. I think that if you saw how the 3D Mac market has grown since OS X launched, you'd change your wording. Do you think it's a coincidence that there are Mac versions of Silo, 3DCoat, ZBrush, Mudbox, etc but no Linux one? You're seeing supply and demand and ZBrush supplied Mac users with incomplete software that's only now (hopefully) being fixed with 3.1.2B. Suggesting they dual boot is pretty retarded - I've got a seamless workflow with Maya, Maxwell, Headus UV Layout, Photoshop, Realflow and now Mudbox.

I like ZBrush's speed but the workflows aren't so much workflows as they are learning what nonsensical series of buttons to hit.

[NeptuneImaging]

I stopped using it because I couldn't get it to export anything more than a 1024X1024 texture map in version 3.0.

Were you trying to export a texture? You have to either, create the texture in the texture menu by typing in the size you want...and hit new.

[Veehoy]

Hello? Excuse me?
Did you read the announcement? It says FREE.
You like to pay for free stuff. Ok. Yes everybody would have an issue.
I would?
It's another free upgrade! Pixologic rocks :buttrock:Did you ask yourself why it´s free? Maybe if we had to pay for it, Pix actually had to do something about the things people are complaining about? :curious:

[snk]

The link just takes you to an invalid thread on ZBrush central! :cry:

[WyattHarris]

Boy, judging by the tone of this thread you'd swear ZBrush wasn't one of the GREATEST APPLICATIONS EVER WRITTEN. Sure, there are a few problems but they are few and far between compared to what this app allows you to do. I gave mudbox a good spin and well, ZBrush 3.1 is still better than 2009 so I can't wait for ZB4.

[DragoCG]

I'll agree. ZBrush is my favorite program out there. I absolutely love what I can do with it. I would just like pixologic to address the issues we mac users are having that really cripples our ability to use the program to its potential. We would just like Pixologic to fix known issues before expanding the program. I don't think anyone questions the application itself, we all know it's amazing. However, we do question the corporate directives that say, focus on PC and expansion while mac users are still screaming from the rooftops for support.

[philnolan3d]

I'll agree. ZBrush is my favorite program out there. I absolutely love what I can do with it.

I see you haven't tried 3D Coat yet. :p

[snk]

Hey all,

just wanted to share thoughts.
You know this slight adrenaline rush you get when you KNOW your about to start something COOL, like moments before starting a Graffiti or driving to MC Ronald for breakfast on the way to work. Thats how I feel when I launch ZBrush. I like working in ZB and I love it for the possibilities it opens up for me.
I really like it the way it is and sure I also want this feature or that tool. Strangely though and more importantly, if Pixologic re-write the interface, I wont miss the old one.

p.s: for all you Mac users out there I hope ur problems get solved with ZBrush 4 or any future updates.

[Giap]

My only concern is that WHY IS IT FREE?

After all this years, the number of version 3 users is uncountable. If they let them upgrade for free, then the afford Pixologic has spent for years is not worth it. If the version 4 carries ton of new features that will blow your socks off then FREE only in your dream.

So maybe Zbrush 4 only fix some bug or re-design user interface so that users who leave Zbrush for couple months still remember how to navigate. I really want to stick to Zbrush but my work requires me to use other app like PFtrack, Maya and AE all the time so when I go back to Zbrush after couple months, I feel I forget where my tools are and so on.

I hope they will show some new features soon so my hype for Zbrush 4 will get back.

[DanielWray]

Well look at it this way, they will loose profit that they could get from charging for each version, but if they offer a free upgrade for a number of versions, or even for life then other people will look at it and think it's a good deal, meaning they will purchase either version 3, or future versions, this could work quite well for them, if they can get enough new customers onboard.

[Nathan]

all zbrush upgrades have been free.

3.0 was a free upgrade and it was hardly a minor upgrade ;)

I seem to remember them saying years ago that all owners of zbrush would always get free upgrades, but I may be mistaken.

also keep in mind that with each new version they raise the price, so the people that have been holding out have to pay more to get their foot in the door.
I would bet they made a TON of money from new users buying version 3 at the higher price once everyone found out how good it was. and I'm sure the same thing will happen with version 4. there are plenty of people left that don't own zbrush and plenty of studios that either don't have it or only have 1 or 2 licenses.

[Lone Deranger]

They also charge for platform license transfers... 50% of the price of a new license.

also keep in mind that with each new version they raise the price, so the people that have been holding out have to pay more to get their foot in the door.

[HiTekJeff]

They also charge for platform license transfers... 50% of the price of a new license.

That's a BIG rub for me right there not just with ZB but also some others too. That's why I am looking seriously at programs like Modo. I have always felt companies should grant a non-platform license and just a version license. Certainly paying for a major revision I have no problem with at all, but charging to switch OS platforms for the exact same thing is what really makes me not want to buy that software.

[HiTekJeff]

I don't want to ruin this thread and go off topic, but can someone either post here or send me a PM about the following?

I am SERIOUSLY looking at Modo for my sculpting needs and have heard lots of good things about it. It looks sort of like ZB/Mudbox to a certain degree for sculpting, but it is different. What I was wondering is for those out there that have used both, how do they compare?

I also want to create props to export as ".obj" and texture with Photoshop CS4. Modo I don't think does texturing like ZB, but I have Photoshop CS4 "extended" for that so no big deal unless there is something I am missing there.

Upside -

Modo has great Mac support and is 64 bit. That's a big deal for me.

Modo seems to work much better, where the Mac sculpting is concerned, compared to the ZB issues.

Modo has a cross-platform license, not OS specific.

Modo is said to be fairly easy to learn compared to ZB.

If anyone can give feedback on ZB, Mudbox and Modo for me that would be great. Also, if posting this in the ZB and Modo specific forums is better or may give me more feedback please move it to those areas.

Thanks for the feedback on this, I look forwared to hearing the responses.

[sacslacker]

Modo does not sculpt like ZBrush. Not even close. That's not to say that Modo isn't a great application. I feel that it is. I wouldn't live without either to be honest.

As far as modo's sculpt/paint stuff. It's decent in the fact that it has it and it works. It's rather clunky and you're not going to be sculpting at the great detail you get with ZBrush. The paint/texture is decent as well, again, not ZBrush. However, ZBrush cannot do many things as well as modo. In other words they are different apps specializing in certain features. Modo if more general and full featured where ZBrush is specialized.

There are artists using only modo and only Zbrush to make fantastic art so you aren't going to go wrong with either one. I'd hate to recommend either one since they both are very good. Best thing to do is download the trials and have fun.

[Kanga]

Modo is a great app. Its not easy to learn. The uv tools are fab and the advantage would be keeping everything in one application. Plus you get a very good modeller and a limited animation section.

I have an xp sp2 comp and I couldn't get sculpting to work. Same problem with mudbox, well its not a problem its my ancient machinery. zbrush will run really well even on a pretty crappy machine. I bought it back in version 2 and the ammount of slowdowns and crashes I can count on one hand. If you have a quick machine then I would say go for the other apps, zbrush will still be quicker with more subdivisions than the others though.

All you mac folk (I thought you were groovy and up there with the lifestyle thing) Just get a windows laptop :) Not just for zbrush, there are loads of free and opensource apps I use quite a bit that are not yet available for the mac.

I don't want to ruin this thread and go off topic, but can someone either post here or send me a PM about the following?

I am SERIOUSLY looking at Modo for my sculpting needs and have heard lots of good things about it. It looks sort of like ZB/Mudbox to a certain degree for sculpting, but it is different. What I was wondering is for those out there that have used both, how do they compare?

I also want to create props to export as ".obj" and texture with Photoshop CS4. Modo I don't think does texturing like ZB, but I have Photoshop CS4 "extended" for that so no big deal unless there is something I am missing there.

Upside -

Modo has great Mac support and is 64 bit. That's a big deal for me.

Modo seems to work much better, where the Mac sculpting is concerned, compared to the ZB issues.

Modo has a cross-platform license, not OS specific.

Modo is said to be fairly easy to learn compared to ZB.

If anyone can give feedback on ZB, Mudbox and Modo for me that would be great. Also, if posting this in the ZB and Modo specific forums is better or may give me more feedback please move it to those areas.

Thanks for the feedback on this, I look forwared to hearing the responses.

[Spin99]

Did you ask yourself why it´s free? Maybe if we had to pay for it, Pix actually had to do something about the things people are complaining about?Something tells me ZBrush is Ofer Alon's application. Maybe he revolutionised an industry. You think there's a lot of developers involved? I wouldn't.

So. He writes ZBrush to his liking, maybe? No other application has ever competed with it.
Maybe it's not like that anymore. But ZB is the original real thing.

I don't think new versions will ever come out against the creator's "concept".
A larger team won't ever happen even? It's almost like a religious thing imho

So whether paid or unpaid, expect ZBrush to remain what it's always been.
You can love it or hate it, take it or leave it. I expect more innovation personally.
Why not just say thank you to Pixologic and enjoy the ride?

[alexentremont]

All you mac folk (I thought you were groovy and up there with the lifestyle thing) Just get a windows laptop :) Not just for zbrush, there are loads of free and opensource apps I use quite a bit that are not yet available for the mac.
You don't need to buy a Windows laptop when you have a Mac, because you can install windows on any intel Mac and run it natively (just press the alt key at startup and choose if you want to boot on OS X or Windows). That's what I do, but it doesn't change the fact that when a company is selling a product (a coffee machine or an OS X version of some app), it has to work as advertised.

[ambient-whisper]

modo is bleh for high rez sculpting. it has some good ideas, and tools even, but things like performance is nowhere near the dedicated sculpting apps, and the sculpting shader/light setup works against you. its hard to see the forms to their fullest when you sculpt so its hard to judge when you try to do something specific. brush build up is often werid as well.

however, the sculpting tools are very useful for low rez modelling.

[Veehoy]

Something tells me ZBrush is Ofer Alon's application. Maybe he revolutionised an industry. You think there's a lot of developers involved? I wouldn't.

So. He writes ZBrush to his liking, maybe? No other application has ever competed with it.
Maybe it's not like that anymore. But ZB is the original real thing.

I don't think new versions will ever come out against the creator's "concept".
A larger team won't ever happen even? It's almost like a religious thing imho

So whether paid or unpaid, expect ZBrush to remain what it's always been.
You can love it or hate it, take it or leave it. I expect more innovation personally.
Why not just say thank you to Pixologic and enjoy the ride?
I am on a PC so I have few problems with ZB. That doesn´t mean that I can´t relate to Mac users since I have had my share of experience with dissapointing software purchases. How many developers they have on ZB is irrelevant. You don´t promise if you cannot deliver, it´s that simple.
My point with ZB being free, is that while it may be business strategy, it also serves as a double bladed sword to beat down complaints/complainers with. "Why are you complaining, it is free!" A very weighty argument and it is used on a regular basis. You´ll probably find several examples in this thread alone.

[Kanga]

You don't need to buy a Windows laptop when you have a Mac, because you can install windows on any intel Mac and run it natively (just press the alt key at startup and choose if you want to boot on OS X or Windows). That's what I do, but it doesn't change the fact that when a company is selling a product (a coffee machine or an OS X version of some app), it has to work as advertised.
Boot camp doesnt always go off without a hitch. Also you have 2 OSs on your machine. This crit is leveled at pixology atm but its not the only company that is slower regarding mac versions. The reason is there are just less resources for that system, because there are less users, end of story.

If you have a personal pipeline you arnt interested in wrong or right, you are interested in efficiency.

[alexentremont]

Boot camp doesnt always go off without a hitch.It's working fine here. Can you elaborate based on your personal experience?

Also you have 2 OSs on your machine.What's wrong with that??? I feel more comfortable with OS X, so it's my primary OS, and when a tool is only available for Windows, I switch to that OS.
Again, what's wrong with preferring OS X? I'm not in any way saying Windows or zBrush are bad products. zBrush is in fact a great product, but Pixologic got my money, and I want a finished product. I don't care about the number of the Mac users, Pixologic decided to market the product for Mac, it's not cheaper than the Windows version, why should I be happy with a buggy version?

The reason is there are just less resources for that system, because there are less users, end of story.Ok, cool down... Forums are about debating, statements like "end of story" are a bit out of place...

[Kanga]

Its the choice you make based on your own preferences. You can demand that climates be different but you also have to accept any disadvantages (not talking about zb). Zb is only one app within a plethora of software,.... where have you been?

My students have problems with the dual os,.. wouldn't touch it myself. That's my preferance.

I am cool, end of story is hardly calling you out into the street :)

Er I know what forums are for.

[alexentremont]

You can demand that climates be different but you also have to accept any disadvantages
I don't get that point of view. Because I prefer OS X I should accept to have buggy software?
Anyway, I respect your opinion. End of story, as you say ;-)

[WyattHarris]

The fact is with the smaller user base the Mac will get less love. However, ZBrush was offered for the Mac so regardless of business logistics and any other internet ramblings a Mac version needs to be delivered. Having said that has anyone tried the 3.12b update? I'm all PC so I wouldn't know but I read what its supposed to do.

[WyattHarris]

Something tells me ZBrush is Ofer Alon's application. Maybe he revolutionised an industry. You think there's a lot of developers involved? I wouldn't.
It reminds me of when Joe Alter first invented Shave and a Haircut for LightWave, at least it has that same feel. Revolutionary product created by a tiny group of people. I expect that there are a very small number of developers and that Pixologic is able to do things that are impossible for big companies like offer free upgrades. I also expect that the mega success of ZBrush has put them in a position where offering free upgrades is no big deal. Imagine how many copies of ZB have been sold and to a small company with much fewer expenses, Pixologic is probably set for life. Lets do the math. Is it unreasonable to think that ZBrush has sold 10,000 copies? At $500 a pop, well you can do the math. Think back to when ZB 2 first came out and how crazy popular it became overnight. And that's with everyone, major studios, indy studios, freelancers, hobbyists. It wouldn't surprise me if they sold 100,000 copies. Now do that math. :D

What surprises me is how many of you guys read "free upgrade" and think the worst. My first reaction was, "Ofer Alon, What a guy!" He could be sticking it to us and charging even a modest upgrade fee. I'd gladly pay $200 for a good upgrade but to just give it away. There just aren't many software companies like that anymore.