Feedback needed for landscape draw for entering a college.

[DArcy1]

There are a number of issues here for me, especially if you are using this to get into school. They all have the same solution though, so that's not too bad :-). Basically, you have no clear light source and thus no consistent shadow pattern. Your land and river look identical - took me a few minutes to even realise there was water there. your perspective isn't too bad, but a bit wonky up near the top of the image where the river curves around.

The solution is to take a walk outside with your sketchbook and draw what you see in front of you. If you have a camera snap a picture of it as well; post the pictures and the drawing and we'll really be able to give you some useful advice.

Hope that helps

D'Arcy

[Qual]

Well I do have a light source:blush: The sun is coming right back at right sight, maybe I should show the shadow much more. About the water/ground yea good point, but draw water isn't easy...I will make the ground darker and shadow more darker and keep the water like how it is, maybe add more reflection and shadow.
Also about the water perspective is complete true, it doesn't look good, will fix it as well.

About going outside and draw, I wish I had time doing that ^^ full-time job now, and it shouldn't rain :P Its not I don't want to, but its all about having time for it. This draw I most did in the train by watching outside during the 1 hour trip to my work.
If I understand good what you mean is that this work I made shouldn't be my entry work as landscape even with good changes?

[matsman]

Hej!

first of all what is the assignment exactly and what will be the consequences of not doing it properly?

Second, since this is as your calling card into this education program make it as good as you possibly can. Not just good enough.

Not sure but the choice in the Netherlands is usually between arty and technical if it involves 3d and computer art.

- If you go the arty direction you have to show much more of that in your drawing... find drama in the landscape, tell a story with your picture.

- If you go for the technical direction you have a little more freedom but be sure your perspective is correct and your image has a clear subject and nice shadows...

Right now your shadows are not that defined... go for a more sunny day and show that shadows fall across walls and stones, that the ground is not a flat mirror and the water ripples a little bit.

If you take the train to work everyday, make sure you draw everyday, small things... even from photo's, people in the train, very quick sketches of what you see outside, a tree, a fence, the reed.
And then after a week or so sit down and think about a good picture, pick a subject, a big tree, a ruined building, a very small plant all alone in the shadow, plan your layout and then go for it.

All masterpieces start with a lot of studies... it's a good way to refine your drawing.
Don't feel down, but I think you can do better! It's not bad at all, just not what it can be.

Hope that helps.

[Cati]

I agree with the previous comments.

One part of aiming to be a professional is the understanding that you must sometimes (if not usually) start all over. Don't settle for one picture - draw many sketches and test out ideas before starting to spend time on one single piece.

Drawing is a timeconsuming business. That's why you must plan your work before you start - what happens if you're 90% done with a picture and notice that the composition is all wrong (or if someone else points it out) - corrections can take enourmous amount of time and you never get it just right. It can be agonizing to start all over at that point - after all the trouble.
That's why - make smaller pictures - sketch fast and do many of them - this will improve your skills in composition as well as train your hand. Make note on what you like and what you dislike - then select your favourite sketch and start making new sketches based on that composition and just plan it further. Make as much sketches as you need - of the details, values etc.. I usually leave my sketches alone for a day or two and return to them to see if they still look as good as they did when I was drawing them. Just make a habit of sketching a lot.

Think about what makes the picture so special. There must be a point of interest. Landscapes are tough sometimes. So keep it simple at the beginning.

Your composition is somewhat loose - it indicates that you have thought about what to put there while you're drawing. It's always a bad idea.

[Qual]

After my last post I already improved the work: River persepective, ground"darker" and the shadows are more shadows now. Will update the draw tonight after work.
Its for 3D visual art design, can't post exactly the assignment now, will do that tonight.
Need to make a landscape, self portret and a house object. And need to make a kitchen in 3D, texture not a reruirenment but 3000 vertex is the limit. (The kitchen is a easy part for me, because I work with maya already 2 years.) Drawing is a part I need to spend time on it and need to improve myself. I draw when I got the time for it, for this sketch I already made allot of skethes already and did research about tree's.

Its more a 3D college but they want to see if you can draw because its importand.
1 of the assignment is if I can draw things from close and things from a far distance for the landscape assignment.

The story of the image is that someone live in a destrucded house in a forest.
I know I should keep it simple, but I want to do my best as I can.

I know drawing is time consuming, I did half year game art study at the hku college but I quit of to less college (1,5 hour drawing each week and after 6 months we start finnaly with 3D but also 1,5 hour a week of college of Maya.) so I want to change college with better college/teachers.

But yea about the drawing part, I should focus on more on small quik draws, but I'm a person want like to do more then needed..same as my wip thread city of war..

I'm happy to get those comments of you guys:thumbsup: , you gife me great feedback so I can continue to improve myself!

[Qual]

This is the assignment:

Landscape; The purpose of this exercise is to see how well you interpret distant objects in perspective and whether you can simplify complex subjects, such as trees. Therefore, you should select a subject that is not completely devoid of subject matter, like a large empty field. It is better to draw a scene that contains scale references, preferably multiple ones, such as houses, barns, roads, etc.




Landscape

Accurate/convincing representation of perspective
Well-observed values, that is, the ability to distinguish areas of differing color with appropriate shades of light and dark. Many students have a very difficult time controlling this and will use a full white (empty paper) to black (paper fully covered by graphite) range of tones to represent each object in their scene.
Ability to simplify complex objects, such as trees and architecture, depending on distance to object


Here is the update, some way it looks less nice then the paper where I draw then this scanner image. I'm still not satisfied but don't know what to improve...maybe the distance? I also have trouble duo the draw goes everywhere on the paper even if I use a paper to cover my hand. Need to change my pencil.


http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6682/landx.jpg

[matsman]

Indeed the gradients add quite a lot to this.

But I still think the composition needs work. Watched the pictures in your portfolio on cgtalk and they are way stronger then what you have here.

If you want to train your eye for shapes and shades there is a cool experiment to try... get a photo and then draw it by lining out the shapes that have a different shade. Highlight has its own line, middle tone it's own line, use as many or less as you see fit. The difficult thing is to not mind the complete picture but only those subshapes of light. Watch through your eyelashes and draw the shapes you see.

Also I just saw siiilon (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5821803#post5821803)updated his sketchbook... he does this, simplifying and gradient stuff quite good, you should check it out.

I wish you lots of drawing pleasure.

[Qual]

Indeed the gradients add quite a lot to this.

But I still think the composition needs work. Watched the pictures in your portfolio on cgtalk and they are way stronger then what you have here.

If you want to train your eye for shapes and shades there is a cool experiment to try... get a photo and then draw it by lining out the shapes that have a different shade. Highlight has its own line, middle tone it's own line, use as many or less as you see fit. The difficult thing is to not mind the complete picture but only those subshapes of light. Watch through your eyelashes and draw the shapes you see.

Also I just saw siiilon (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5821803#post5821803)updated his sketchbook... he does this, simplifying and gradient stuff quite good, you should check it out.

I wish you lots of drawing pleasure.

Hey Matsman, Are you sure you watched the right portfolio? I don't have draw images in my portfolio^^ If you mean the wip thread of city of war the first 2 concepts are made my a other artist, other images in that thread I did made but noway they are better^^.

Yea thats a great thing to do with lining out the shapes, but for that I need better and new pencils :) Still saving money for a wacom...=(
It looks nice also what siilon does, will try it out for sure what he does.

[matsman]

weird... just followed the "view cgportfolio" link (http://qualize.cgsociety.org/gallery/) that stuff isn't yours?

-edit- who needs a wacom when paper and pen(cil) is close at hand?

[Qual]

weird... just followed the "view cgportfolio" link (http://qualize.cgsociety.org/gallery/) that stuff isn't yours?

-edit- who needs a wacom when paper and pen(cil) is close at hand?

Ah yea thats mine, I though you talked about drawing image... but thats 3D which I learn myself for 2 years now but thats not 2D which I just practice for about 6 months.

Is this draw "okey" to submit if you check the assignment for landscape? If not, what can I change in this image? I don't think I got the time to remake a other image, this because I still need to finish my selfpotret and Household object + 3D kitchen.

[matsman]

okay if we are talking quick fixes...

first as per the assignment try to use the full palette of shades in your drawing, making sure the foreground has more contrast (darker darks and lighter lights) then whatever is in the back... the farther away the less crispy it is... you have it already but increase.. dramatise, overdo it slightly.

second play with cropping and turning your image around... I think the last picture is stronger because of the angle already. If it is allowed to scan and print try to use that to your advantage, otherwise get some white paper and frame different pieces until you got something that is as strong as your 3d pictures (which have better composition) and pops of the paper/screen :P

finally google some water pictures, note that water is quite dark of itself (dutch water even more so :P ) and reflects the sky, also note that it has quite some contrast, especially in-between the waves. But find pictures of water and try to recreate that.

I think that is what you can do without redrawing the whole thing.

BTW looking forward to your self portrait... make it easy on yourself and draw from a photo and not from the mirror :)

Greetings!

[Qual]

Will try to make those changes with the tips you give to me matsman.
About the water, I did already some research with google, but water stay hard...specially with no color^^
And yea dutch water are nasty;), if I make it darker...I think you will see less quiker that its water and more a road, I know water reflects allot...I will try with some sketches before I try it on the original image. Might google more about water.

Yea self portrait, I started some try with mirror, I think its more easy to do, but with photo I can ask feedback from it by comparing. Its less difficult then landscape. Will post tomorrow night a update.

[DArcy1]

Hi again

While the picture is improved, it doesn't actually meet the criteria of your assignment - if you can't follow simple instructions it doesn't look good for your application. Specifically:

"to see how well you interpret distant objects in perspective" - there aren't any, really, just a blur of possibly trees which is a convenient way to not draw distant objects :-).

"whether you can simplify complex subjects, such as trees" - your distant trees are just blurs.

"draw a scene that contains scale references, preferably multiple ones, such as houses, barns, roads, etc" - you have none of this at all.


"Accurate/convincing representation of perspective" - because of the points above, you haven't accomplished this. To be honest, if you are doing a scene from imagination, you'll need to draw perspective lines properly before you even start to draw.


You have stated that it is "hard" to do this right - well you are correct in this; but a professor will never accept that as an excuse, nor will a potential employer. I make this suggestion in all sincerity and desire to help: Don't let "it's hard", or "I work full time" be the end of it. Your next sentence to yourself needs to be "So how will I make it happen despite the roadblocks?"

Find yourself a landscape - borrow a camera and take a few pictures out the train window if you have to - or just draw the view outside your apartment. But don't give up on this if it is your dream.

Cheers

D.

[Qual]

Hey Darcy,

Thank you for the post, just before I left this morning (06:30 in the morning to take my train Zzz) I readed your post. During the train I took a pen and draw something quik on the newspaper. I suprise myself how quik I draw a landscape image with a pen. Seems you are right, I should remake a landscape, duo I progresse allot I can draw quiker.

Any way...should I make something like this: http://z.about.com/d/drawsketch/1/0/H/M/varner_river.jpg

And then extra objects like a fish-house/mountains clouds etc..?
About making photo's from the train is a bad idea...I live in the Netherlands and trust me everything is flat as a A4 paper and you only see grass and cows.

[matsman]

About making photo's from the train is a bad idea...I live in the Netherlands and trust me everything is flat as a A4 paper and you only see grass and cows.

I say: Do it... Dutch landscapes are some of the best in the world because you can see so very far... and the light is beautiful too, ask any art historian :P

BTW barns and cows are great subjects an the small wood patches between the fields are quite good to show perspective too.
Taking pictures from the train is a bad idea mostly, unless you have a very quick camera but if you take a small trip on your bike or with the bus to a small village near where you live, you come across great subject matter.

:) just here to defend Dutch landscapes :)

[Qual]

I say: Do it... Dutch landscapes are some of the best in the world because you can see so very far... and the light is beautiful too, ask any art historian :P

BTW barns and cows are great subjects an the small wood patches between the fields are quite good to show perspective too.
Taking pictures from the train is a bad idea mostly, unless you have a very quick camera but if you take a small trip on your bike or with the bus to a small village near where you live, you come across great subject matter.

:) just here to defend Dutch landscapes :)

For me its stay boring. Specialy if you can't color it, just draw it. 1000 m2 drawing grass with some cows/trees no ty :P
But the link I showed before is a good image for criteria of the assignment if I draw a fishhouse/mountains and other things..?

[DArcy1]

Hi

Re the sketching - congratulations on discovering what you can really do if you push yourself !

Yes that link is a much better idea. You could widen it a bit to make some room for a house in the foreground and one or two in the background to add a few more perspective elements. Alternately, you could snap a photo or a quick sketch just as the train is coming in to the town/village so you have both cows and houses. Or leaving at the end of the day - late afternoon will give you some great shadows..
Carry on !

D.

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