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View Full Version : Character: Monica, my 2nd head (and 1st hand)


ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 07:18 PM
I started this project some months ago when i finished my 1st head (maybe someone will still remember it). I interrupted the process for some months during which i modeled two cars and another head due to some lack of inspiration. I called her Monica because the main subject in my female references folder was Monica Bellucci, the italian actress. The entire work took me one month. It was quite difficult to find the pose and the expression i was looking for, but now i'm very satisfied about every element of the pic, so i felt like i could consider it finished. Here are the final pic and the low poly wireframe. Thanks to Alessandro Baldasseroni aka Eklettica for the webspace (i'm still without any) and the strenuous support during these months!

Cinema4D 8.x + Bodypaint 3D 2.0, all the textures are 100% hand painted (except the textile one)

http://thirdeye.cgcommunity.com/images/gallery/monica.jpg
http://www.eklettica.com/thirdeye/wire.jpg

some old GI render of the hand during modeling

http://www.eklettica.com/thirdeye/hands.jpg

CGmonkey
07-12-2003, 07:19 PM
Freaking AMAZING!!

Well done!!

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 07:23 PM
Thanks dude. I forgot adding the rendertime: 10 minutes on my Dual P3 1ghz, textures 3000x1500, 3 point lighting, no GI, no HDRI, some sort of SSS fx. :wavey:

Baldasseroni
07-12-2003, 07:24 PM
Really amazing, i can`t find anything serious to criticize, shading and geometry are at state of the art, keep up the great work my friend ;)


Ale

wesware
07-12-2003, 07:31 PM
Looks Great!
:applause:

Nothing serious to crit here either.

paintbox
07-12-2003, 07:33 PM
Nice work ThirdEye...

Can't believe it's just a 3 point light setup, got me fooled :)

sebek27
07-12-2003, 07:35 PM
yet another amazing piece of work !!
texturing is awesome :buttrock:
maybe have some hair coming out from the top of the hat

rquinn
07-12-2003, 07:38 PM
waaa
whats your method the mesh is so clean
what tuts did you read!?
plz share
plugged



cigarette has something weird dunno what maybe too dark
thats all

Levitateme
07-12-2003, 07:39 PM
argh, i dont know what to say tha tpic is amazing. that is very ...man thats great. do you have any animation of her? that would be amazing to look at i think . the only thing i see wrong is the bump map on her hat. i don tthink it fits very well. it just looks like it is just there, not like it is actually on the hat. but other than that ...man...

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by -R.Quinn
waaa
whats your method the mesh is so clean
what tuts did you read!?
plz share
plugged



cigarette has something weird dunno what maybe too dark
thats all


This one is the only thing you need:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469

:wavey:

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Levitateme
argh, i dont know what to say tha tpic is amazing. that is very ...man thats great. do you have any animation of her? that would be amazing to look at i think . the only thing i see wrong is the bump map on her hat. i don tthink it fits very well. it just looks like it is just there, not like it is actually on the hat. but other than that ...man...

No animations so far, maybe in the future, who knows ;)

flyingP
07-12-2003, 07:45 PM
now THAT is some REALLY fine work, absolutely super!.

facial
07-12-2003, 07:45 PM
ThirdEye_01, Nice work!

:applause:

vizion
07-12-2003, 07:49 PM
i like it a lot. One thing though, it looks a bit too similar to your other head. Same facial structure and lips..

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by vizion
i like it a lot. One thing though, it looks a bit too similar to your other head. Same facial structure and lips..


Uhm... yes i now use the same topology for my heads, no need to reinvent the wheel, maybe i'll change it in the future if i need to. 1 thing tho: which is the head you're referring to? My 1st head had a completely different topology (quite wrong one in all honesty), are you referring to the 3rd one which is still a wip?

MelFromHel
07-12-2003, 07:55 PM
Simply amazing! Far beyond anything I could accomplish. My only comment is in the skin: the moles look bland, almost as though they are pencil lead under the skin rather than skin markings. Seems like they could be a little redder or closer to the skin tone of the rest of the face.

Still, as I said, far beyond anything I could do!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

spm
07-12-2003, 08:04 PM
the eyes seem a bit too big or something. maybe its the distance between them or something. also they look like porceline. the tip of the nose seems kindof "boxy". otherwise its nice. i love the hand.

xeno
07-12-2003, 08:06 PM
very well done Thirdeye, i like how this one turned out! Perhaps a tiny crit..the face texture looks good, but it looks perhaps a little too smooth for my taste now..
Also, the lips dont blend in at all with the rest of the face it seems, perhaps that transition could be a little smoother?

The mesh itself looks very tasty!

AtrusDni
07-12-2003, 08:07 PM
Wassup ThirdEye. First of all, awesome pic man. Very well done. I do have some minor crits though, but these could just be a matter of opinion -

Her skin looks really smooth, maybe too smooth. Dont know what your reference picture looked like, but the area i noticed it the most was her nose. I can see a little bump map happening under her eyebrow but i think some on her nose and maybe some on her cheeks could help a little.

Her left eye, there is something weird going on with the middle of the top lid. It looks like its folding under or something... Could just be the way the light is casting a shadow on it, but it looks a little off.

Also, I think the lacrimal gland area of her eyes could be defined a little bit more, maybe add a little more red to them because right now they are the same color as her skin, so they just blend in.

Well, I hope you find my critiques somewhat usefull. All in all your pic RoXoRs, so keep up the good work.

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 08:15 PM
In all honesty the skin of my references was even smoother, maybe it's because photographers try to give models a dolly look, have a look here for example:

http://utenti.lycos.it/Repios/Bellucci06.jpg
http://www.jhoussin.com/INDEXJHdefdefdef2.gif
http://www.wapers.com/people/monicabellucci/monicabellucci2.jpg
http://www.tvtome.com/images/people/1/1/21-8386.jpg

Laa-Yosh
07-12-2003, 08:40 PM
Wow, another nice head from ThirdEye :)

Some comments:

- Very nice shading and lighting! However, the nature of the image (fashion photo) could use a different style of lighting. For example the white background suggests some diffused white light from the left, which should add some rim lighting on the left side of the face.
Also, the bump textures on the lips are strange and unnatural.

- Your shadow map settings are soft which causes you to loose shadows where the hat meets the brow, and the ring meets the finger. These are called contact shadows (incidentally :) and would help to sell the image a lot more. Either increase shadow map resolution for the lights or render a seperate shadow pass for these (or paint it in Photoshop).

- The image is a bit too sharp and it gives away its being CG. I'd try a little blur and some color correction.

- The cigarette is too perfect, needs some noise on the vertices.

There are several modeling issues.
- First of all the hat is unnatural; it fits the head so sharply that it looks like it's elastic, but the material suggests a different kind of fabric.
- The second problematic part is the eyes, specifically the eyelids. The shape of the eye is unnaturally symmetric, and the lids are faaar too thin. Add more mass, right now they make the girl look like a mummy :)
Eyelashes should be farther away from the eye, too. Try to find some references; most fashion mags are full of it, ask your mother/sister/girlfriend.
- I also don't like the nose. The edges are too sharp, even for a man ;) and the bridge is to wide.
- My last problem is the topology. The mesh is incredibly dense in some parts (bridge of the nose, around the lips, cheecks) and it doesn't really contribute to the shape. However your polygons get gradually bigger and bigger towards the brow area, and the edge flows stop following the directions of surface deformation. If you ever plan to animate your characters, you should try a different topology.

Keep in mind that the image is very nice already; these are only small suggestions to make it even better.

Laa-Yosh
07-12-2003, 08:43 PM
Although there's some amount of photo used in this model, it's still pretty cool looking. And check the shape of the eyelids!

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rimasson/3d/digidoll.jpg

LordShaitan
07-12-2003, 08:45 PM
It looks great (Minus the lettering on the beanie) but where are the shadows? I can see some faked GI shodowing that looks as though it was done in hptoshop, but i think whats its really missing is a shadow or two. I mean the part where it really stands out is the ring on her finger, it looks like it could have been added in post.

Dont get me wrong its some beautiful texture work, but the no shadows throw me off. Great job!

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 08:48 PM
I agree with nearly all you said Tamas, i will keep those suggestions in mind for my 3rd head, they'll be really useful! About the nose and the eyelids look at this pic, they seem almost identical to mine http://utenti.lycos.it/Repios/Bellucci06.jpg

jscott
07-12-2003, 08:49 PM
Looking really good man.

2 things caught my eye:

1. The forhead where it meets the hat. Almost looks like her forhead turns into the hat. There is little or no break there. Maybe a slight shadow to indicate the thickness of the hat material. The end of the hat is rounded material. Not really sure if I'm explaining it right.

2. The fingers holding the cig. They look a little bit stiff and overerly straight. It actually takes extra effort to hold your fingers straight like that. Maybe that's the look you were going for. It just looks a little unnatural to me.

Take your hand. Hold your fingers straight. You can see that there is a position were your fingers are mostly straight with slight curvature at the joints. It takes a lot of extra effort to make them perfectly straight and ridgid.

Really great work!

-jscott

Laa-Yosh
07-12-2003, 08:54 PM
Well on this ref pic, Monica Belucci's eyelids are covered in dark makeup which makes it impossible to see where they end. It's also blurred a bit, and the nose is washed out because of the diffused lighting.

Finding really good reference images is almost as hard as modeling :)

AnimBot
07-12-2003, 08:55 PM
Hey ThirdEye_01 this is a very nice piece of work. I would also like to throw some comments in.
I agree the skin does look a bit smooth. I also had a difficult time finding reference pics for a model that I'm working on where there were any pores showing or blotches in the skin. I think if you break up the color of the skin a little with some darker and lighter blotches it will add some more believability to the model. I also think some more work needs to be put in on the specular map as well.
One thing that bothers me a bit are the lips. While I think the bump mapping on it looks really good you may want to scale it back just a little bit it looks a little too harsh.
Again really good job keep going with it and show us some more.

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Laa-Yosh
Well on this ref pic, Monica Belucci's eyelids are covered in dark makeup which makes it impossible to see where they end. It's also blurred a bit, and the nose is washed out because of the diffused lighting.

Finding really good reference images is almost as hard as modeling :)


Better? http://www.mariomieli.org/11gayefun/images/Bellucci/monica1.jpg

blindsleeper
07-12-2003, 09:04 PM
looks like the bridge of the nose is a bit broad.

Laa-Yosh
07-12-2003, 09:04 PM
Eye references:

http://www.photovault.com/Link/Health/Anatomy/EyesOptical/HAEVolume01.html

Mostly small images, but close-ups and so they are pretty cool.
Like these:

http://www.photovault.com/Link/People/o/rPortraits/PORVolume16/PORV16P14_11.jpg

http://www.photovault.com/Link/People/Abstracts/Closeups/PACVolume01/PACPCD0663_066.jpg


PS: Photovault has some cool images, but be careful where you click - some are really disturbing!

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 09:09 PM
Thanks for the link Tamas, bookmarked right now ;) About the pic you posted, you said there was some amount of photos used in it, are you sure? I remember Alias|wavefront used it to advertise their new skin shader for Maya, i thought that pic just used procedurals..

squidinc
07-12-2003, 09:11 PM
awesome work thirdeye, but a couple of things... I don't like that thing she's wearing on her head, but I think that's mainly because I don't know what it is and I've never seen someone wear anything like that, she needs some hair, even though she's wearing that hat you'd still be able to see some of it, cool work though, I was wondering when you were going to post it :thumbsup:

Laa-Yosh
07-12-2003, 09:12 PM
Mr. Rimasson says so:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rimasson/3d/digidoll.htm

There's been some buzz about it back then as well, just like with Ulf Lundgren's models that were using photo textures from some book. Neither case is completely clean to me, so I'd rather not judge them ;)

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Laa-Yosh
Mr. Rimasson says so:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rimasson/3d/digidoll.htm

There's been some buzz about it back then as well, just like with Ulf Lundgren's models that were using photo textures from some book. Neither case is completely clean to me, so I'd rather not judge them ;)


Francois says "I had to reconstruct some part of the model, so I created a simple shader that mimic the skin tones pretty well." So it seems the shader is procedural, about the photos he said "I would like to start from a real photo, and transform it step by step into a 3d model. I took a scanned photo, and modified a nurbs model to match perfectly the picture" so it seems he used the photo as a reference for the modeling. About Ulf's works he's always said the old man was textured using some photos he took to his father so i don't think there's much to speculate about it :)

The-3D-Data-Labs-Guy
07-12-2003, 09:17 PM
Oh man.. she is staring at me! ha ha :) :love:

schmu_20mol
07-12-2003, 09:25 PM
really nice work...beside what above was stated i'd change the texture of the cigarette filter (put some of those lighter brown dots in) ....and one thing that freaks me is that i'm not able to read the what's written on her 'hat'....but hey beside that great work....

just my $ 0.02

Garma
07-12-2003, 09:25 PM
very good modelling and texturing work. However I have some crits.

Hmm, skip it. I just notice that Laa-Yosh mentions almost everything i wanted to say. Please take them in consideration! Especially the cigarette bothers me.

Chewey
07-12-2003, 09:27 PM
Pretty nice work. I'd have to agree on the hat thing which looks like it's covering a bald head.

I'd also do a bit more work on the lip texture as that bump map makes her lips rather unappealing. The lip bump looks like the resolution of the map is too small to provide enough detail without looking lumpy.

Her eyebrows are a bit too thin looking and appear to be penciled on like she's had her actual eyebrows removed. She'd look healthier with a set that have a little more substance. Overall the effect of the image when I first saw it was that you were trying to portray a cancer patient who had lost her hair.

I think that you need to look into creating a much more detailed bump map overall for the face as it simply lacks any detail and looks too smooth.
If you are going for a "makeup" look then you should also remove the skin blemishes that makeup would typically coverup.

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by AnimBot
Hey ThirdEye_01 this is a very nice piece of work. I would also like to throw some comments in.
I agree the skin does look a bit smooth. I also had a difficult time finding reference pics for a model that I'm working on where there were any pores showing or blotches in the skin. I think if you break up the color of the skin a little with some darker and lighter blotches it will add some more believability to the model. I also think some more work needs to be put in on the specular map as well.
One thing that bothers me a bit are the lips. While I think the bump mapping on it looks really good you may want to scale it back just a little bit it looks a little too harsh.
Again really good job keep going with it and show us some more.


Thanks for your comments AnimBot. About the lips bump i don't agree that much, look at this pic and you'll understand the only reason you see that bump for is the lipstick, if i lower the specularity of the lipstick the bump disappeares ;)

About the skin tone you may be right, especially about the specular map which is my personal worst point. About the too uniform skin i don't really know, i'm quite hesitant, i've seen smoother skins in these kind of fashion photos, it's just a matter of what a person has in his mind i think... Thanks a lot tho! :thumbsup:

ThirdEye
07-12-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by schmu_20mol
really nice work...beside what above was stated i'd change the texture of the cigarette filter (put some of those lighter brown dots in) ....and one thing that freaks me is that i'm not able to read the what's written on her 'hat'....but hey beside that great work....

just my $ 0.02


The cigarette filter already has the brown dots, it's even got the nicotine blotch in the inner part :) The hat? Cinema4D Bodypaint 3D, maybe the bump of the text didn't work as expected :)

iBlue
07-12-2003, 09:33 PM
i just think it needs an enviroment thats all, the model itself is wicked! :)

Spozzfreund
07-12-2003, 09:38 PM
Wow, beautiful, great work! :love: :bowdown: :)

Rei Ayanami
07-12-2003, 09:41 PM
the earing OK.

great otherwise.

BeCOOL_MiN
07-12-2003, 10:00 PM
Good JOB!

Even though I don't really like her face.

However, Work is pretty good~

Oh-YEAH:wavey:

Kel Solaar
07-12-2003, 10:38 PM
Cool job on this face, there is some minor critics that have already been said by the others otherwise I like it! :thumbsup:

JacquesD
07-12-2003, 10:45 PM
Good work ThirdEye_01...

Here're few things I'd say... the lower eyelids don't look smooth enough, the chin looks a bit too small, the noze looks a bit sharp to me, the cheek bone looks too low and maybe the shadow of the hat on the forehead is missing.

Other than that... the overall model looks really clean!

Keep on ;)

razzi
07-12-2003, 11:05 PM
Really really amazing work....awesome !!!

I really admire 3d artist that good in lighting...and not using any GI nor HDRI. with 3 point lighting you can come out with this result.....fuuuuuhhhhhh!!!!....you are really a great artist man!

The Face almost real ...love the photorealism! Good JOb!

just one thing...the lipstick texture is too hard and I dont think a profesional model would use that thick lipstick.or maybe you just like that way...well all the best for your future.

PhilOsirus
07-12-2003, 11:08 PM
The texture on the lipps is not right, most young woman's lipps have few bumps and are mostly smooth. The rest looks great, altho maybe you can try to give her some facial expression?

JulianJohnson
07-12-2003, 11:23 PM
Hi there third eye, well done your really improving, very nice textures and model WELL-DONE.

Reserved24hrs
07-12-2003, 11:32 PM
Wow.... nice work:)

leigh
07-13-2003, 12:03 AM
Overall, a beautiful piece of work :thumbsup: A very classy lady indeed!

Only a few crits...

The skin on her hand looks a bit strange, especially in the creases on the undersides of her fingers. Perhaps the skin looks just a little too blue in those areas?

The skin on her head looks a little dry, especially on the forehead. It also looks a little hard. The cheeks look fine, but the forehead and nose somehow just look... hard. Perhaps the specular map needs a little more work?

The bump map on the forehead and between the eyebrows and the top of the eyes looks a little rough. Is there possibly some UV stretching on the upper eye areas?

The ring on her finger seems to be going into the flesh along the bottom.

There is something odd about the lighting overall. The hat almost looks like it is comped in there (probably because there seems to be no lighting interaction where the hat meets the forehead), and the cigarette's lighting looks really out of place somehow. And her clothing also looks like it has different lighting. Perhaps you used photos of fabric that had lighting in them?

Really great points about the image:

The eyes are awesome. They really have a lot of life and grab your attention. Excellent depth.

The lips - superb work there. The lipstick is excellent. You really nailed that particular look of the slightly lumpy painted on lipstick.

Her pose is just so cool. So classy, like a Bond girl. She'd looks fantastic with a feather boa or something like that too ;)

Your work is really just getting better and better, ThirdEye - great stuff :applause:

tomaya
07-13-2003, 12:33 AM
Very amazing textures! nice work really!:scream:
The eyes are so great!!!
:applause: :applause:

michaeli
07-13-2003, 02:37 AM
Very beautiful girl!
The mesh and the texture are really nice!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

onlooker
07-13-2003, 02:49 AM
I hope this is not a sore spot, but she looks nothing like Monica Bellucci.__:drool:

Nevertheless, you have created a realistic looking female in 3D. Blur the picture a little, and you could probably convince me she was a real girl. Great job!:applause:

Aose
07-13-2003, 03:36 AM
Good work, expect more:thumbsup:

zedsdead
07-13-2003, 06:51 AM
i agree about the eyes, they are awesome, if you could lay out some pointers on how to get that look, it would be much appreciated!

great work......

Halogen
07-13-2003, 07:19 AM
extremely good mate. I prefer the look of smooth freckleless skin, but its good that you got the details this far. Great job :D

sarfarazsoomro
07-13-2003, 07:35 AM
hmmm.. Third Eye gr88 work...and nice textures BTW.. keep it up :)

rayz
07-13-2003, 08:44 AM
pretty lady...... im liking the her already,

little crits --- like many already said the tuque/hat that shes wearing looks kind of wierd on her, and now that Leigh mentioned the ring going through her flesh ---- i keep on looking at it :surprised, but the thing that distracted me first was the hat she's got on... its kind of off*, but i really like the texture.

keep it up... :beer:

xmg_cgeden
07-13-2003, 09:45 AM
Nice work!

Love it!

ThirdEye
07-13-2003, 10:42 AM
TheRipper: agreed about the eyelids and maybe you're right about the cheeks too. I don't really know about the chin, it seems ok to me, here's an old render without materials: http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=344286

razzi, Osirus: i like the lips as they are, i formerly explained that they look so bumpy because of the lipstick, i attached a reference too

Julian: thanks a lot man, you've been very gentle as usual

Leigh: thanks a lot, i agree with all your critz, they'll be useful in the future :)

onlooker: i know she doesn't look like Monica Bellucci, but luckily that wasn't my purpose :)

Halogen: others told me the skin is even too smooth, you'd prefer a smoother one, i guess it's just a matter of taste, when you try to do a photorealistic model it's very easy to find something you don't like or would change, it's just a tough subject. Thank you too :)

ThirdEye
07-13-2003, 10:46 AM
zedsdead: Use this pic (it's by Peter Syomka) for your eyes ;)

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=393043

pupii
07-13-2003, 11:44 AM
excellent!!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

pupi

NelsonInomvan
07-13-2003, 11:49 AM
Man your girl looks good :) She is quite a woman :)
Four stars for you dude

p0lym0rph
07-13-2003, 11:59 AM
verry verry nice :applause:

Anton Andriesh
07-13-2003, 02:11 PM
Magnificent work! :thumbsup:

But there is a lack of shadows, that makes her flat. And .. lighting on her face doesn't fit the the bright white background.

I can post an illustration of how I think you can make her better, if you want.

ThirdEye
07-13-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Anton Andriesh
Magnificent work! :thumbsup:

But there is a lack of shadows, that makes her flat. And .. lighting on her face doesn't fit the the bright white background.

I can post an illustration of how I think you can make her better, if you want.

Sure, why not :)

Anton Andriesh
07-13-2003, 02:25 PM
here...

WanielJorge
07-13-2003, 02:26 PM
:drool: Wonderful! perfect! only the half spherical eyes.:applause: congratulations!!

ThirdEye
07-13-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Anton Andriesh
here...


That's really really good, can you tell me what you exactly did?

Baldasseroni
07-13-2003, 02:36 PM
yeah, i think that the black background and hilights (burn tool , right ?) on skin and jewelry are a nice improvement.

Anton Andriesh
07-13-2003, 02:52 PM
Of course. :)

Dark areas always look more distanced then bright ones. I just "deepened" some areas and "lifted" anothers to add some volume to the image. The same trick with fingers. Areas on the finger bends should be darker too.

Some glittering added to the ear ring, to emphasize its originality. The same thing could be done to the gold ring on her finger.

And the changed background, to fit with face lighting.

Here's another image. Areas that need to be darker are red, bright ones are blue.

ThirdEye
07-13-2003, 03:05 PM
Thanks a lot Anton :thumbsup:

loocas
07-13-2003, 03:18 PM
Well, only one thing to crit: The cigarette is very bad lit! Anything else is PERFECT!!! :buttrock: :thumbsup:

ThirdEye
07-13-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by loocas
Well, only one thing to crit: The cigarette is very bad lit! Anything else is PERFECT!!! :buttrock: :thumbsup:

I guess I still have to learn a lot about lighting, the shadows don't work very well it seems :hmm:

spakman
07-13-2003, 07:36 PM
(I hope I'm not repeating anything - haven't read the other responses)

First thing I noticed is that you've got a really good idea of how to lay out your edgeloops, right up to where to get into the brow/temple/nose region. These areas need to be reworked before concentrating on textures. Right now there's a disconnect between realism and characturism that I feel is being masked by the excellent shading I see.

The overall potential of this piece it top notch, I must say. :)

markbones
07-14-2003, 01:35 AM
Really, really nice. Lots of points of encouragement have been brought up already, so I won't go there. What I was thinking is that it must be quite hard to get reference material of a model/actor/actress - what kind of fashion photo has not been touched up in Photoshop? Each photo will have different makeup, different lighting, different Photoshop manipulation - tough to get a consistent idea of what she really looks like. At some point you may have to go with an artistic decision (especially texturing & lighting) and deviate from your reference material. Just my thoughts... Well done on a difficult undertaking.

-M-

Neil
07-14-2003, 03:33 AM
Here is a comparison showing why i think the face looks a little 'off'.
I know each human face differs, but if you're going for a beautiful face, there are certain proportions that make it 'beautiful'

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~meskaunr/monica2.jpg

ThirdEye
07-14-2003, 09:23 AM
In all honesty i find prettier mine than the reference you posted, but it's a matter of taste i think ;)

ThirdEye
07-14-2003, 09:37 AM
This one is the reference which inspired me mostly and i don't think her proportions are off since she's always been considered one of the most beautiful girls in the world :)

hopper2k
07-14-2003, 10:03 AM
Wow, looks great! I would say the eyes may look a bit too big, but that might be just me. :thumbsup:

Cinematography
07-14-2003, 10:11 AM
ThirdEye_01,
You know what would be crazy.... (I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet - I'm sure someone has - I just don't feel like reading through 5 pages right now - I'm kind of sleepy) if you did an animation of her taking off her hat, and from the hat comes layers of beautifully flowing hair.


In other words, I would love to see her:
a) move
b) with hair on her head


Anyways.... You did an EXCELLENT job! I admire your patience, and attention to detail.
:applause:

Baldasseroni
07-14-2003, 11:43 AM
I guess that from all that has been said , one of the main thing which comes out is that everyone has his own idea of the perfect beauty, so it`s pointless to argue about that ;)

ThirdEye
07-14-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Eklettica
I guess that from all that has been said , one of the main thing which comes out is that everyone has his own idea of the perfect beauty, so it`s pointless to argue about that ;)


We all have a different idea of beauty because we're all different people, and during every single day we are used to different kind of faces due to the place we live in. Some german friends said me that my heads are very "italian", that's prolly true and i think it is absolutely normal because i'm italian, i live in Italy and italians are the people i'm surrounded by. The only important thing when modeling the human body is respecting common anatomy laws, they're not subjective at all. Beauty and aspect, on the other hand, are very subjective and depend on the artist pov. Different folks different tastes.

razzi
07-14-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Eklettica
I guess that from all that has been said , one of the main thing which comes out is that everyone has his own idea of the perfect beauty, so it`s pointless to argue about that ;)


I really really agree 100% with you Eklettica.We shouldn't argue about who's IDEA is the best...its up to individuals....I see many artist always argueing what they like and dislike...

To me we should respect what the artist want for his work. As another artist should just suggest what is good and best for it...it 's all up to the owner to change it or not...

And again just in my humble opinion...

ThirdEye
07-15-2003, 10:36 AM
Razzi, Eklettica: today i read something that confirms the subjectivity of beauty. This is the preferences order of european/american men about women:

1) normal
2) thin
3) fat

This is the order of 3rd world countries men:

1) normal
2) fat
3) thin

It seems quite strange but it's not strange at all if you think about it :rolleyes:

Icestar
07-15-2003, 02:03 PM
first off lol@razzi's avatar,secondly i dont like neil's comparison photo either(talking about proportion her lips looks a lil off to the side or something) ,third i also agree with leigh about the blue/purplish finger joints. and fourth i agree about the more hair thing. i knew someone who had cancer/(and therefore kimo therapy) who use to wear a scarf in that almost exact manner to hide the fact that she was bald.it'll make her look a little.....healthier. but i like it and you can tell a tremendous amount of work has gone into it.

markbones
07-15-2003, 04:42 PM
Hi guys,

I don't think the subjectivity of beauty is the issue. The point is if it looks like Monica Bellucci or not, and whether there are issues with the CG itself - as people have pointed out: the blue-ish lines on the fingers, where the hat meets the forehead, the lack of any hair visible, the cigarette.

Great work, with a few areas that could be addressed. Is she beautiful or not? Who knows. Would we recognize her as Monica Bellucci? Offhand I don't know what she looks like, so if no one told me, I never would have guessed ;)

So ThirdEye, if you are satisfied with the way she looks now (her basic geometry), great! If there are glaring differences between your model and M.B., go ahead and improve. And of course, post the changes!

A great work in any case. :thumbsup:

-M-

Neil
07-15-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Icestar
secondly i dont like neil's comparison photo either(talking about proportion her lips looks a lil off to the side or something) ,

Ok, this takes noting b/c a couple people have mentioned the photo I used.
Well I'm not comparing your model to my sister, that photo is of another model. So many people do consider her beautiful. Please give me a headshot render of the face (don't worry about lighting and rendering quality), I'm just intrigued by the facial structure more than anything. I wanna overlay the 'beauty mask'.

ThirdEye
07-15-2003, 07:47 PM
Neil: here's an old render without any texture, i like her shape a lot and i find her "pretty". ;)

http://www.cgtalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=344286

ThirdEye
07-15-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by markbones
Hi guys,

I don't think the subjectivity of beauty is the issue. The point is if it looks like Monica Bellucci or not

-M-

No that's not the point imo. I just used some photos of Monica as a reference for the proportions of my model but i didn't want to make a copy or something like that, i just wanted to assure some good proportions to my model. :)

markbones
07-15-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
No that's not the point imo. I just used some photos of Monica as a reference for the proportions of my model but i didn't want to make a copy or something like that, i just wanted to assure some good proportions to my model. :)

Oh - ok, sorry. I thought you were really trying to model her. Well, then I guess the bottom line is if you are happy with your model.

Cheers!

-M-

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