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softdistortion
04-01-2009, 04:04 PM
I've done a variety of projects and have more than one specialty in cg, but I decided to start on a new project that would stretch into the unknown and try a full on VFX shot to see who may join in on the experience and allow others to see how I/we manage. Whenever there are updates (which I hope to do at least weekly) I'll be posting a bit about what's new here.

It will involve integration of video sequences and an animated 3d character.
Hoping to get some help and feedback from anyone that are interested in collabing on this sort of thing now or in the future.

Already 3 episodes posted in the Video Journal (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal)

Episode1 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=23)
Episode2 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=80)
Epsiode3 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=109)

FAQ:
What is this about?

It's an attempt at a pro level VFX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vfx) clip that will combine cg with live footage. DETAILS HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=23)

Inviting anyone that feels they have something to contribute to the endeavor.
I'm mainly looking for self motivated advanced artists interested in a new experience.

----------------------
Here's the list I have so far of the required elements...if you see something I missed, tell me! >

Live footage shot on location (hoping to shoot HD)
-planning of Live shoot
-planning of equipment

Hi resolution CG model and textures
Realistic CG Animation of model
-rigging and animation

Matchmove solving of Live film and compositing of CG elements
-planning of shots to make them trackable
-planning of software pipeline
unexpected stuff :wip:


---------------------
Here's the anticipated questions I have so far...if you have more questions, ask em!>
Questions you may be asking>

Looks cool, but have you ever done a pro level VFX sequence like this before?
um, no....but I figure it's like anything else I've tried that I never did before. I have some basics ( softdistortion.com (http://softdistortion.com) / shirowproject.com (http://shirowproject.com) ) , and I'll learn what I need to know on the way, and probably some others will also pitch in their expertise and skills. It's the experience of something new and working with others that is of value to me.

Why are you putting it in a live Journal?
It's a way to let others who have an interest see the nitty gritty details of this project from concept to delivery...You can follow the success and challenges of it all from the perspective of someone who (maybe like you) has never done this type of thing before.
Also, I personally sometimes feel a bit of a let down when I see something like this get released without any real details or an explanation missing details that I would like explained.

softdistortion
04-04-2009, 01:18 PM
Episode 2 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/) is up.
Testing visuals of traveling camera shots.

softdistortion
04-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Episode 3 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/) is up.

-Info on the matchmove app I'm looking at for this projects.
-A cool aerial shot matched, exported and working properly in Modo302.
-Also some bits on benefits of Vista64 for this app.

BOY1DA
04-10-2009, 07:19 AM
Kool stuff, don't know much about VFX and match moving so I will watch and see what I can learn ...

softdistortion
04-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Thanks Omar. Hope you subscribed :)

Next Update on the matchmove is coming Wed.!

In the meantime, I posted a New Clip (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=132) and info. It's from last year, but figured it was interesting enough to move over to this newer Journal.

Features a timelapse of the HDR shoot we did in an abandoned factory in 2008.

Over the holiday weekend we also got a chance to shoot some more HDRs and timelapse of the work being done on the VFX clip, stay tuned for those!

softdistortion
04-15-2009, 07:43 PM
Episode 4 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=148) is up.

-First matchmove test using the traveling footage shown earlier.
-Some info on the people that have joined in on the project so far.
-Some info on the HD cam being used for the first set of serious test shots.

sllink
04-19-2009, 01:12 AM
Its looking good SD. If theres anything I can do to help let me know. You convinced me to buy MODO so I've been trying to get up to speed with it.

softdistortion
04-19-2009, 07:43 PM
Sllink- from seeing the model work you have done lately, I think you are ready for some nicer tools..I really think you're gonna love modo. Even simple things like double clicking to select all poly or a whole edgeloop. Besides that the UV and paint tools alone are worth the price imo. :)

There are some good tuts on luxology.tv (http://www.luxology.com/training/training.aspx?mode=Category&id=1) .
Also help vids inside Modo http://www.luxology.com/training/video.aspx?id=92

Check out something as basic as the clone tool compared to what we were used too.
http://www.luxology.com/training/video.aspx?id=39&auto=1

re helping on the VFX project- I could use a hand with the rig setup on the Copbot if you think you are interested?

Donshole-are you ready with your project, if not could you be available for animating this beast?

Planning on our old standard LW>MB>LW workflow, except I 'll be re-exproting to .MDD to try and render in Modo with this project. ...tempted to try some stuff with you in Maya as well...will see what you have to say first. :)

softdistortion
04-30-2009, 06:50 PM
Episode 5 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/) is up. Also 2 More clips since I missed my weekly post last week.:banghead:


-MTVish clip of on site setups/shooting, Pano and DIY steadycam gear.
-DIY steady cam clip that looks a bit over Vegas-ized. :arteest:
-First matchmove clip using the footage from a consumer Panasonic HDcam.

softdistortion
05-05-2009, 02:00 AM
If anyone is interested in adding their 2 cents or pitching in I could use some suggestions or a hand with the Bot hitting a cement pillar FX. I was toying with having him accidentally collide sending out a big concrete chunk (didn't add that in the pic below) and smaller dust etc.

Best to use LW particles or model the parts and hand animate, or both? Suggestions???

Below is a rough idea of scale. I can get some Hirez images of the pillars if anyone wants in on this, even if you just want to set up the model. ;)

Video ref HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=243)

http://softdistortion.com/ForumPosts/images/pillar_hit.jpg

Also Including a .LWO scale mockup of the garage if anyone is interested in doing some scene layouts, camera angle ideas or whatever. :).
Garage.LWO 64k (http://softdistortion.com/ForumPosts/files/Garage_model_001b.lwo)

sllink
05-08-2009, 12:17 AM
Im back SD. I can give it a shot if you like. Particles can be fun :arteest:Is the model going to hit it straight on or is it going to take a chunk out of the side by clipping the pillar?

BOY1DA
05-08-2009, 04:51 AM
That steady cam set up seems to work pretty well ...

Looking like this will turn out real kool in the end. I always wanted to try something like
this shot you are doing but I will just live it through you for now . ;)
Looking forward to seeing some of the first comps with a 3D model in the shot. :thumbsup:

softdistortion
05-08-2009, 12:13 PM
Im back SD. I can give it a shot if you like. Particles can be fun :arteest:Is the model going to hit it straight on or is it going to take a chunk out of the side by clipping the pillar?

Thanks Sllink.
We could go either way, a chunk out of the side might work well too. Maybe a couple rough mockups to see what look nicer?

Also should talk over some ideas on how best to do this to make it look as photoreal as possible.

softdistortion
05-08-2009, 12:19 PM
That steady cam set up seems to work pretty well ...

Looking like this will turn out real kool in the end. I always wanted to try something like
this shot you are doing but I will just live it through you for now . ;)
Looking forward to seeing some of the first comps with a 3D model in the shot. :thumbsup:

Thanks Boy1da.
I'm trying to document most of the steps so it's a bit of a long road to the comp shots...but hope to have some of that eyecandy in not too distant future. The real payoff will be when the motion shots start coming together, I can't wait to see that! :)

We're gonna shoot some more HD vid with a Canon 5d this weekend....should be fun. Interesting to see what that camera can do in this setup.
Will post behind the scene vids and sample frames in the video journal some time next week so stay tuned and keep the feedback coming guys...this is fun, but draining work to squeeze in with all the rest of day to day demands. :buttrock:

sllink
05-08-2009, 07:17 PM
Thanks Sllink.
We could go either way, a chunk out of the side might work well too. Maybe a couple rough mockups to see what look nicer?

Also should talk over some ideas on how best to do this to make it look as photoreal as possible.

Sounds like a plan. I will look for you online later this evening. In the mean time I will do some rough test of collisions objects. While we discuss the work on a photoreal render

softdistortion
05-11-2009, 02:54 AM
Sorry I missed you Sllink. It's Sunday night and I'm just about to hit the sack....we just finished a grueling weekend of shooting with the 5d. I'll probably be sorting and editing that and also all the behind the scenes stuff we also shot, over the next few days...Can you send me a link when you get something started and I'll try to catch up with you?
Thanks again for pitching in :buttrock:

softdistortion
05-21-2009, 03:17 AM
TEXTURES for the pillars ARE COMING>>>I PROMISE!! :)

In the meantime...

Still working away at it...HERE's (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=272) a clip from the Canon5D shoot we did on the 9th

For those who may be curious, below is a comparison comp with the Panasonic consumer HD handycam 1080p and the 5D shooting 1080p in the lowest light section of our location.
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/sd9_vrs_5d_comparison-1024x531.jpg

After trying for quite a while I got back into the old factory to shoot footage while we had the 5D...trying to shoot and process 2 locations is slowing things down a bit but I have to go while I have access...Started a new journal for the FACTORY location HERE (http://softdistortion.com/PANOjournal)if you are interested.

softdistortion
05-24-2009, 01:39 AM
Two new updates...Textures are still coming....seriously. :)


http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/311.pngEpsiode6 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=311)


http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/318.pngEpsiode7 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=318)

softdistortion
05-25-2009, 07:45 PM
Posting early this week in case I get behind again by Wednesday. :)

http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/342.png Epsiode 08 (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=342)

softdistortion
05-25-2009, 10:39 PM
Finally Here are the pillar textures.
Anyone that wants to work with Sllink on a hirez model for the pillar impact simulation post your work in this thread.
Thnx

http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/Pillar_sides_web.jpg
http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/Pillar_top_web.jpg

HIREZ>
Upright Side 01 (http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/side01.jpg)

Upright Side 02 (http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/side02.jpg)

Upright Side 03 (http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/side03.jpg)

Top Support (http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/top_support.jpg)

Top Support side (http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/WEB/Pillar_top_sides.jpg)

Also refs and textures for the cracked section> HERE (http://softdistortion.com/GARAGE_VFX_TEXTURES/PILLAR/JPEG/)

ovspianist
05-28-2009, 03:01 AM
the whole thing is going better and better. good luck with everyone of you.
hope that this will come really high-end look after all.

softdistortion
05-28-2009, 12:08 PM
Thanks ovspianist.

Small info update on what is happening with this project>

For anyone wondering what this all about there's some info Here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5782069&postcount=1)
The main goal is to network with other artists and see how good we can make this look.

There's just a rough script idea of 1 or 2 tech/lab coat actors doing a test run in a parking garage with this big robot. There are no storyboards...I am crunched for time and boarding was never my strong point as any of my past project team mates can swear. :).

I wanted to get the the van set with air shock lifters to film real motion to coincide with the CG bot bumping into it as one of the techs steers too close to the van. I described the idea for this part of the script in this preliminary video clip (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=23)... But it was too much to setup and operate along with all the other work needed on site just to shoot footage.

I'm hoping to get more on site help for another shoot in future and then we can get those extra shots...for now we're moving to a modified mini script that has some shots of the robot moving through the garage (shot from various angles plus bot's POV) and eventually have him steer too close to one of the garage support pillars clipping it and then hitting a second pillar and coming to a dead stop.

I should explain that this Robot is roughly 6.5' tall for this clip...this is because the garage is only 8' high floor to ceiling. The robots motion will need to be a blend of crablike walking switching to faster acceleration as it's rear jet thrusters are fired. Input from animators would be appreciated on how to make this work and look realistic...also if anyone has video refs of anything similar to this type of motion...let me know.

As far as I can think of we need to work out the various pillar/set models, backplates, pillar impact simulations ...also rigging and animation of the robot is still needed.

I'm getting some footage that has already been shot match moved and hope to then add the other elements.

If you are interested in helping, PM or email me to let know what input/planning help/work you think you can add to this section of the project.

PS: I'd really like to also get anyone doing work on this to record some vid clips of how their part of the project was done for people to follow the details of the work done on this and also as an overview of the project's development.

sllink
05-30-2009, 02:04 AM
Hi SD,

Here are a couple of test.

Video 1 (http://vimeo.com/4876290)
Video 2 (http://vimeo.com/4876249)
Video 3 (http://vimeo.com/4876238)

softdistortion
05-30-2009, 02:56 AM
JUST WOW! Really nice work Sllink. Thanks for the effort you put into getting it this far so fast.
Oh, and I love bot tipping...also the camera move you did on the second clip. :buttrock:

I guess we should move into setting up the scene and textured pillars. Let me know what your plans are form here on...I'll try to catch youand we can talk over some plans for next steps.

Also an industry simulation guy contacted about assisting on any sims we need. There's gonna be potential application hurdles- MAYA, so we should also hash workflow options we can use if he comes through as a helper. I know interapp is a pain for us, but if he is for real, I'd like to see what he can bring.

Hope to catch you soon. :wip:

sllink
05-30-2009, 03:23 AM
Well I wish I could take all the credit but the first pillar setup was the one that Lightfreeze provided its like I said I would try and pretty it up. Im still trying to understand the new radiosity setting in LW9.6. Anywho I used Lightfreeze's file for the side clip and my cracked pillar as the resting spot.

I see you've been busy. You know I guess we could see if others have some thoughts on methods or recommendations. Its all fun so I will keep playing and I guess go a head and texture those pillars and re-rerun the simulation again. Let me know if there is something else you think I can be doing. :thumbsup:

softdistortion
05-30-2009, 12:09 PM
Ok, I'll let Lightfreeze know we used his file.

When I was talking to th simulations guy I mentioned in my last post he said he was thinking it would be best to have a low poly version of the pillar for the simulaition and then link that to the hirez model for the render, so I don't know if you need to redo the simulation...maybe if he is still reading this he can chime in??

I agree we could use more input...maybe you could take the lead on asking for input at our project threads at SQ and LUX forums?

Re textured model,sounds good.... I could help with UV/texture if you like. :wip:

ovspianist
05-30-2009, 03:24 PM
Yeah, i'm philippe, the fx guy.

i've seen the simulations that sllink did, that's pretty much a good starting point, but it's ok on the test stage, when it comes to the final sim it basically involves all the other effect elements such as smoke, sparks, steel bars, fire... and your timing during the frames very after the hit is good for preview too. well, if we want the output comes really photorealistic then we need to work more on the details. and did you sim that in lightwave? well coz i'm a maya guy.

if you need me to take the technical director job that's ok, or if you feel that level of complexity will come out of your time then i could do the shot.

and to SD, i wanna say that if you want it more realistic you could add a little more subtle details such like the falling leaves being dragged by the robot foot which maybe is already in your consideration, and things like the character interacting with the circumstances in the not focused area, just to fool the eyes and affect the subconscious a little bit, you know, subconscious picks up little articles out of focus and get affected by such. yeah it's a little psychology, but it helps.

Good luck with you guys.

Kid-Mesh
05-30-2009, 04:24 PM
This looks really cool. *Subscribed* Good luck :thumbsup:

sllink
05-30-2009, 04:54 PM
Yeah, i'm philippe, the fx guy.

i've seen the simulations that sllink did, that's pretty much a good starting point, but it's ok on the test stage, when it comes to the final sim it basically involves all the other effect elements such as smoke, sparks, steel bars, fire... and your timing during the frames very after the hit is good for preview too. well, if we want the output comes really photorealistic then we need to work more on the details. and did you sim that in lightwave? well coz i'm a maya guy



Hi philippe!! Welcome!! Go ahead and take the lead Im no fx guy. The pillars are pretty low poly. I think in the end it will come together in modo but I could be wrong.

sllink
05-30-2009, 05:08 PM
Ok, I'll let Lightfreeze know we used his file.

When I was talking to th simulations guy I mentioned in my last post he said he was thinking it would be best to have a low poly version of the pillar for the simulaition and then link that to the hirez model for the render, so I don't know if you need to redo the simulation...maybe if he is still reading this he can chime in??

I agree we could use more input...maybe you could take the lead on asking for input at our project threads at SQ and LUX forums?

Re textured model,sounds good.... I could help with UV/texture if you like. :wip:

I can get the object files to you for texturing if you like?

softdistortion
06-01-2009, 02:40 PM
Thanks guys.

Sllink- I'll try to get you on MSN for the pillars object files
Lets work together on them in Modo since we can do all we need for detailing etc in there then we can get that to OV for the sims...we could set up a server FTP or drop box workspace to share the files maybe?

ovspianist- you have sim TD position for the pillar fx and yes, I also was thinking of leaves, DOF you mentioned. Glad you have a good eye/mind for those details, now lets see how well we can do it. :buttrock:

Patience required till we can get the pillar up to snuff and wrangle it over to Maya compatible files. I will try to get time to also make up a 3D backplate model export using the hires plates I shot.

ovspianist
06-01-2009, 03:35 PM
thank you all for those.

and SD i have to say that the film i'm currently working on needs more time to take care, in the studio i work for, so sorry about that, there maybe less time for me to spend on this project. but i'll try my best, i believe that after 10 in the evening i'll be able to squeeze some time for this, and maybe also weekends... and that's all, good luck with everyone.

i hope that the transition thing will be smooth to pass.

softdistortion
06-01-2009, 05:25 PM
awwww...1hr since you're assigned as TD...usually people wait a week or so before they start making posts like that. :D

No Offense, but you know better than us if that is enough time for you to do your end on what we are talking about doing. I'd rather you tell me you are not able to cut it now, than in a few weeks after we do the work to get things sorted into Maya for you to sim.

sllink
06-01-2009, 09:58 PM
Thanks guys.

Sllink- I'll try to get you on MSN for the pillars object files
Lets work together on them in Modo since we can do all we need for detailing etc in there then we can get that to OV for the sims...we could set up a server FTP or drop box workspace to share the files maybe?

ovspianist- you have sim TD position for the pillar fx and yes, I also was thinking of leaves, DOF you mentioned. Glad you have a good eye/mind for those details, now lets see how well we can do it. :buttrock:

Patience required till we can get the pillar up to snuff and wrangle it over to Maya compatible files. I will try to get time to also make up a 3D backplate model export using the hires plates I shot.

Sd are you still using netdrive? If so this may allow us to share the files like before.

Sllink

softdistortion
06-02-2009, 12:58 AM
That would be good, unfortunately it doesn't work on my machine Vista64. If you are on 32 bit you could use it and I can just use my FTP client.
http://www.netdrive.net/download.html

I'll mail you the FTP details. :thumbsup:

ovspianist
06-02-2009, 05:27 AM
awwww...1hr since you're assigned as TD...usually people wait a week or so before they start making posts like that. :D

No Offense, but you know better than us if that is enough time for you to do your end on what we are talking about doing. I'd rather you tell me you are not able to cut it now, than in a few weeks after we do the work to get things sorted into Maya for you to sim.

:eek: OMG... well i think it's still better to tell you first. i don't know what to say, i myself am quite eager to get my hands on this project, and i like the overall feeling of it, and to be be frank i'm really building my showreel right now plus i don't like the project in my studio. so don't worry about that, i'm definitely gonna do my best for this. i was just to remind you that i might be asked to work for lots of extra hours in my studio, it's damn hard to believe if i told you we have to finish 1 shot per day before deadline, currently working like mad.

so i think i'd better just do my job as fast as possible and wait for you guys to send me the files for maya.

softdistortion
06-02-2009, 01:36 PM
Ok, ok...Maybe that was a bit huge.

It just seems like backpedaling collabitis had already hit, and we're handing an important part of the project to someone we don't know...with no visible refs!

I'm sure you can understand my concern ...possible implications of your last reply after initial eagerness to have a big chunk of this project= it's time draining and demoralizing for a small team to transfer assets for someone using another app, and then have them leave with a pipeline that's been shaped around their needs.

I'll take your reply comments as legit and we'll see where this goes...we'll take it at the pace you can handle.

ovspianist
06-03-2009, 04:03 AM
well in this case, thank you.

better you guys keep changing ideas on this thread, i can read about things on the project, in that way i can easier to make my plans and get the work done beautifully. i mean you're the leader, it's always good that you can make our path clear, so we can see what we're going to facing to, otherwise in the end it could be a mess in the situation where we're not even in the same country.

ovspianist
06-07-2009, 02:53 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/5044086

this is the pillar impact rigid body simulation.

The method i use is nothing more than rigid body sim. but i used the phyx engine which is super fast on these situation, which also means i could add a lot more debris in the scene, it should work well on shots that require high detail simulation. this is just a start, many details have to be refined. the geometries can be replaced by highrez models after this stage.

feel free to ask me if there're any questions.

softdistortion
06-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Thanks Philippe. I MSN'd comment.
-----------------
Don't want to freak anyone, however, some thoughts in general on the pillar impact FX...would appreciate comments-

After looking at both sims we have so far...I'm wondering what this really would look like in the real world. I have a feeling it would be a lot less spectacular. The more I have considered it, I think the glancing impact might not even take anything off a concrete pillar?

That would be pretty boring by Hollywood's standards. We can also just wing it and make it look as fantastical as we want... Just me thinking out loud. Probably somewhere in the middle will be just right.

Also the Robot itself should perhaps have some serious consideration. ie. the front arm that glances the pillar should probably be torn off or at least mangled..also the mandibles and face tubes etc...

CALL FOR VFX references ASSISTANCE.
Anyone that can recall some DVD movies that have some VFX similar (walls being broken through or similar??) to our efforts here please do some vid or still grabs for us as that might also help.

OR!
If you are in here browsing these forums but are more hands on that computer FX oriented...maybe someone is interested/able to do a scale model pillar -hitting it with a sledge or similar -filming the effect for us to use as a ref?...just don't do it to anyone's property! :scream:

OR help scan the web for info??
for ex> http://www.springerlink.com/content/ev5594513l751m06/fulltext.pdf


Contact me for details

ovspianist
06-08-2009, 01:01 AM
yeah, this is the thing.

as i understand, the robot isn't moving that fast, right?

i was struggling when i tried to make it believable, as i know, robot in that size probably just damage one corner of pillar, and a little bit of debris. for my test, to do these modifications is simple enough, we just know what exactly we have to do as soon as we get the refs.

and also the first version of the test can give animators a little bit hint of how things react in this situation. even if we can do sim on the pillar, things happen on the robot still needs animators to hand key frame. and the pipeline always goes animation first and dynamics later. so that kinda depend on the animation a little.

as for the details, that's no problem, we can even use real geometry to do simulation instead of just particle instancing. if shots require, that could be much more realistic.

softdistortion
06-08-2009, 03:26 AM
We're moving in a good direction from the word go.. everything we do on this is a good step. I want to thank Sllink and you, Philippe for sims you guys have already done.
---------
Ok, details>

Robot speed will depend on what we can do to animate it realistically. The tough part imo will be to make it look realistic going from a crablike walk that speeds up till the jets take over, lifting him up and propelling him forward. If we do it right I think it will look cool and be somewhat unique, cause I don't think I have ever seen anything like that on film yet.

Then we have to consider that the garage ceiling is 8' high and the bot has only 1.5' clearance when he stands tall at 6.5'. I picture the legs folding up slightly so it should all work out.

A while back I did IK tests with the ver1 bot that Sllink showed in his Pillar impact simulation. All the legs were able to sway left and right, forward and back by binding them to a single null controller...I think we can do similar for this model and use that for the airborne shots... as it weaves in and out of the pillars the legs can all be made to swing in the right direction.

If the height clearance and the leg stup work decent then I think the perceived speed increase that the low ceilings are giving us in the shots might allow us to make the robot go pretty fast for doing a path between pillars...I'm thinking min 30MPH.

Also this is an armored or at least bullet proof robot so it could have decent body mass... A van is around 3500lbs, so the ot might be something like 5000lbs with ammo fully loaded.

Maybe something that heavy would look believable taking a chunk out of a pillar...my vision is that the glancing hit with a rounded body of the robot would equal not much pillar damage...does that matter? I don't know until we see our shots develop some more.

I wonder if it could add some reality if the first pillar does only receive minor damage with some paint scraping left behind. while the bot looses an arm...the lost arm plus impact could play well for the side flip that Sllink did in his sim. Then the full body impact on the second pillar could do more damage.

I'm not going to commit us till we get a bit further, and I also want anyone else to chime in with their take on this.

softdistortion
06-10-2009, 07:16 PM
Updates>
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/426.png
Episode 09 is up- HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=426)


Here's something that should be of interest to anyone wanting to know more about making 3D sets out of 2D backplate images...image modeling, camera projection etc done in an app that is not available but we're fortunate eough to be using anyways. :) Intrigued??

I'll be posting some run through on this topic later on, but, if you've been paying attention and have some smarts, you will be able to find and unlock this video NOW andnot have to wait till it's posted! :thumbsup:

Also a quick Explosion Reference clip (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=423) ...I know it's not what we need, but I wanted to show somwthing till someone else also hops in with some refs...anyone wanna help on this?? :wavey:

donShole
06-11-2009, 08:52 AM
CALL FOR VFX references ASSISTANCE.
Anyone that can recall some DVD movies that have some VFX similar (walls being broken through or similar??) to our efforts here please do some vid or still grabs for us as that might also help.



From 1:20 to about 1:43 in this clip http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/deceived-cinematic-trailer

Object involved is MUCH larger and speed greater but it looks nice.

softdistortion
06-13-2009, 02:50 AM
Thanks for finding and linking that clip Lesa. Amazing work they did in there!
Will try to grab and post the relevant sections in the vfxJournal.

Let me know when you have some time to skype re the animation. Looking forward to working with you again.

softdistortion
06-13-2009, 02:55 AM
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/450.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=450)

Another new clip on modeling a 3D set from photographs so we can create virtual camera shots is up HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=450) at the Vidjournal site

DogmaD
06-13-2009, 07:52 PM
That looks great! Very educational too. Could you make a simple shot with a sphere or something moving between those pilars with some panning? Very curious how it will look.

sllink
06-13-2009, 10:54 PM
Very cool SD. Cant wait to see it in action.

softdistortion
06-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Thanks guys...the candy shots will be coming soon.

softdistortion
07-02-2009, 12:04 PM
UPDATE:

VFX shoot part II upcoming- New footage and also some re shooting to smooth tracking in the more technically challenging shots- namely a traveling shot that has the camera circle outside 4 pillars with the robot at the center.

We had so much motion blur from the pillars passing and occluding the frames that tracking errors shot through the roof and made a full 360 fall apart. We may have to divide this shot but re shooting with less motion might fix it. We have Victor Wolansky (you may recognize his name from FXphd.com) joining the project as Matchmove TD - working in Syntheyes and PFtrack

------------

Re pillar impact sims...Some interesting info on the simulation in Transformers II>
"The other noteworthy development was that the breaking apart of a pyramid top was eight times bigger than the previous ILM rigid simulation record. It only required four or five shots but that took seven months just to create the simulation of the blocks tumbling and being torn apart by Devastator. TD Christopher Horvath oversaw the pyramid sim work.

"It has caused our simulation folks to improve everything and we've got some really clever people that understand cinematic movement better, not just the technical elements," Farrar says. "We push everybody to observe what is real."

This caught my eye, especially after our team having discussed what our concrete pillar would really do after a copbot impact...If all goes well, we'll try to do 2 versions...one realistic and one over the top. The second should give some freedom to ovspianist, our Sim TD to show what he can do.

We talked it over and hope to see some more sim tests from him soon.

Still have a lot of work to finish the Factory Pano job but hope to see it ease up a bit in August as I come to the end of that one. Besides the online setup and deliverables for the client there's also a hardcover photo book being prepared. :wip:

ovspianist
07-08-2009, 01:43 AM
Sorry to post this so late.

I finally got some time free from work, just out of the mad busy nights.
Ok, here's what i'm thinking:

for this time, i'll definitely do an over the top version, with more detailed debris and internal structure, smoke, particle fx, fluid simulation... and in a more violent manner like a transformers fight a bit, let's see how far i can push this shot. Since i'm still a fx guy, i keep try doing things with pure dynamic contribution, instead of playing tricks on other things such as textures or lighting.

and i have a question here, do you think it's better to do this sim in a different scene like one in the video reference or in the garage with pillars?

softdistortion
07-10-2009, 03:41 AM
Thanks Philippe...also aplogize for my lateness replying. I ended up with another opportunity that I had to jump on before it vanished.I hope to wrap it up this month.

In between we did do a second location shoot in the garage with the 5D, it is less blur and all, but I have to say I don't like it as much as the first clips we did. This cleaner set looks sterile.

Anyway, I have to process all the files and get them to our matchmove guy so that is up next.

Regarding your question. We will still do all the FX sequences in this garage since we have all the HD footage and backplates. I will eventually get back to image modeling the set from hirez the backplates and send you a Maya scene.

Also Sllink and I still need to do the pillar models with break away sections modeled for closeups .

Please keep developing the FX so that when I catch up you are ready to start integrating with the scene I will send. Also keep the scale in mind so we can keep it real world.


I'm also talking with Donshole re animation and it looks like he is going to work in Maya so that is also on the boards. I need to re rez all the 4k textures and consolidate the UVs for export to Maya. Before all that we need to know I can get the animation back to my end to render. Might have to buy Pointoven I suppose. :surprised

Chrisguy
07-11-2009, 10:22 AM
this looks fantastic Softdistortion! I've learned quite a bit from this too, I'll be watching this thread and your site!

ovspianist
07-11-2009, 06:48 PM
SD, i have a question though, why don't you use markers for footage tracking? doing a non-blurred version and add motion blur in post, um...that's an irritating job to do, well at least to me. i actually think painting out the markers in compositing could be better, and this is what others in production do usually. especially since we've got a very detailed texture of the set, and are going to rebuild the scene, rendering a patch over the marker area with textures we already have is a good solution for me.

this is just a thought.
Hope it helps you if you've really missed this option.

softdistortion
07-12-2009, 03:11 AM
this looks fantastic Softdistortion! I've learned quite a bit from this too, I'll be watching this thread and your site!

Thanks for letting me know you are enjoying the thread and info.
The sister site I'm running for the pano project will also have some vids up soon showing my flow for that type of work, some of it overlapping with what is being done on the VFX project.
Trying to shoot some interesting behind the scenes footage too with info/commentary.

softdistortion
07-12-2009, 03:24 AM
SD, i have a question though, why don't you use markers for footage tracking? doing a non-blurred version and add motion blur in post, um...that's an irritating job to do, well at least to me. i actually think painting out the markers in compositing could be better, and this is what others in production do usually. especially since we've got a very detailed texture of the set, and are going to rebuild the scene, rendering a patch over the marker area with textures we already have is a good solution for me.

this is just a thought.
Hope it helps you if you've really missed this option.

Appreciate the suggestion and it is a good idea. And I am with you on not going post with motion blur...I think real film blur looks best anyways. If we use the no blur footage I think it will stay as was shot..there is at least a small bit of DOF in the new footage.

From what I understand the issues on this clip are caused by trying to do a really long 360 around 4 pillars.

The errors between frames accumulating over the length of the clip from motion blur plus the pillars occluding the markers and killing them all at each passing...well it stinks, but hopefully with this new footage we will get our tracked shot.

The other option is we track it in sections and edit between the shots which would be fine too.

softdistortion
07-12-2009, 12:16 PM
Just spotted this...5star+ VFX/simulation breakdowns for inspiration HERE (http://tinyurl.com/d5setw) .

ovspianist
07-12-2009, 03:15 PM
Just spotted this...5star+ VFX/simulation breakdowns for inspiration.

spotted what? i'm not getting it.

P.S. i do remember nuke(yeah it's a 2d comp software but it also has 3d which i haven't tried yet) tracking has a switch, that allows you to grab new pattern of the markers in every customized frames, this is good i think. this way you don't have to worry too much about the markers having huge perspective change. don't know how it operates in 3d tracking software, but you know, just another thought.

Good luck with you guys.

P.S AGAIN. i'm still testing new tools for the impact scene, and another good tool i found is still in developing, by volunteers in the forum. i think that would be one of the most useful tools in our project! :beer:

softdistortion
07-13-2009, 01:09 AM
Sorry bout forgetting the link for the FX breakdown HERE (http://tinyurl.com/d5setw)

softdistortion
07-17-2009, 01:18 PM
The Latest HD footage has been processed and is in the hands of Victor for tracking. He's working on the new classes for fxPHD so may be a bit before he gets to our files.

While I was back shooting the factory panoramas I am trying to wrap up this month, I also had a chance to shoot some excellent broken concrete refs that can be used for our hirez pillars!

Sllink and I are both updated to Modo401 so once I get back in gear we will be able to easily share the model work on the pillars.

Donshole is likely going to do the animation in Maya as I mentioned earlier. I'm hoping to get in touch with him and we can get going on that in August. For this month, I'm hoping to try a small render with some basic animation done with Modo401's new animation tools.

ovspianist- Any progress on the sims?

**We also have a VFX facilities' senior Flame artists volunteering to do some compositing for us on this.

ovspianist
07-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Yeah, some progress i need to tell you.

First is i found a free script to do debris in a more automatic and controllable way, i'm testing it for better integration in our project, and i'm looking for the best way to keep as much information as possible, so that you guys can make more decision easily.

Second i'm trying to solve maya fluid system problem in texturing, both to render and simulate fluid for explosion is hard, i have to say unfortunately, but I WILL GET IT OUT quite soon, for now, i'm using the shot i'm doing at work experimenting and get a quite better result than i could do before. I'll post a sample next time i get a break.

Third for maya particles' rendering quality, i've learnt a lot from my friends working on maya dynamics, both technically and artistically.

Forth! I WAS THINKING TO BUY A NEW COMPUTER! currently this is a little bit slow.

All these are for preparing more to bring out better result, don't want to rush it if there're still things we can improve.

I'll try to put out a smoke test and a debris building process as soon as possible, I did some test in my studio, but i'm not allowed to send it out. i'll find some time to recreate it in my own computer, but quality will sacrifice quite a bit.

good luck!

donShole
07-21-2009, 09:32 PM
Donshole is likely going to do the animation in Maya as I mentioned earlier. I'm hoping to get in touch with him and we can get going on that in August. For this month, I'm hoping to try a small render with some basic animation done with Modo401's new animation tools.


SD,
If you can email me the bot model, I can start looking at the rigging and approach to animation. We could still consider animating in MB - but that will need bones and weights in LW. Oh the memories...
A pointcache is probably the simplest way to work.

softdistortion
07-22-2009, 12:23 PM
I'll try to put out a smoke test and a debris building process as soon as possible, I did some test in my studio, but i'm not allowed to send it out. i'll find some time to recreate it in my own computer, but quality will sacrifice quite a bit.

Ok, keep us updated on how you make out. :thumbsup:

softdistortion
07-22-2009, 12:31 PM
SD,
If you can email me the bot model, I can start looking at the rigging and approach to animation. We could still consider animating in MB - but that will need bones and weights in LW. Oh the memories...
A pointcache is probably the simplest way to work.


I'll set it up in the FTP and let you know the login details when it is ready for you.

Not sure if pointcaching from Maya is importable to LW or Modo. Was looking at PointOven (hhttp://www.ef9.com/ef9/PO1.5/PointOven_15.html) but I don't have The right version of LW and the Modo plugin is just a Beta. :(

Other option would be to get one of you Maya guys to do setup and rendering?

donShole
07-22-2009, 05:19 PM
I think I posted a link to this back in the day, but we didn't get round to testing it : http://maya2lw2.faulknermano.com/index.html

softdistortion
07-24-2009, 07:11 PM
Thanks Lesa, I looked at it...an issue I think I see is the workflow is specifically for this> "pre-defined workflow, which is to model in LightWave, animate in Maya, texture, light and render back in LightWave. "

That would mean the UV's would be lost on this already textured model.

I'll check around a bit on the LW and Modo forums I guess, to see if they know a best practice method..otherwise...dust of MB and it's back to the good old days. :shrug:

donShole
07-25-2009, 10:49 AM
Does LW have UV transfer tools? These could used to restore the uvs on the animated model. it's worth experimenting anyway.

ovspianist
07-29-2009, 05:48 PM
Hey all, i finally have put a demo video!

this voronoi script is made by some guys in cgtalk, maya dynamics part, they've done a beautiful job for this, this is one of the best scripts i've ever seen, and it's fast! the script creates convex polygons which are best for rigid body simulation, in nima(physx for maya plugin) convex mesh are supported very well and simulating at a very astonishing rapid speed! and we can easily bake every chunk's transform information to animation curve. in this case we'll have a smooth workflow, well at least in maya part.

after the rigid body sim done, we'll have a solid framework for fluid simulation which is definitely going to be a slow process.

I'm currently preparing for my new computer, balancing the price and the functionality... that's a very tough job to do. with this oooold computer, i think i can do a demo video for a script, that won't be too slow.

and the new computer will be(almost decided):
2*Quad Core Xeon E5506, 2.1G.
12G memory.
1300G Hard Drive.
Quadro FX 1800. :cool:
it's a dell workstation, will take me too much to pay........

more stuff are going to be out after i got the new computer! for now they're just a little bit slow... :twisted:

ok, here's the video.
please help me transfer this video to your blog, SD.
http://www.vimeo.com/5823924
and um... sorry for my english speaking, god it's not a talk show, right?! haha OMG...


Latest Bad News: vimeo failed to convert my video...don't know why, will check it when i get home tonight.

softdistortion
07-30-2009, 12:07 PM
donShole-
yes, we could use LW or preferably Modo UV tools (because they are better) to transfer UVs back, but I'd rather try to leave them intact if possible...but as you rightly suggest, it's doable and an option if needed.

On another front-
From a reply I got it seems the Pointoven plugin does work with Modo 401/Maya>
"I just happen to have used Point Oven yesterday for the first time to export an animated (smooth bind + blendshapes) mesh from maya 2009 back into modo 401. Point Oven created a .lwo and .mdd file from Maya, which i imported back into modo. Right-click, apply mdd, and it worked."

Also There is this plugin for Maya-we could try instead of .obj for model export from Modo to Maya. It would be better than .obj because it claims to preserve multiple Uvs. I can only hope it also does a better job than .obj exporters at not flipping polys!

If you could install it I can send some model parts in Modo file format to see if it is any good for us.
http://www.battlefleet.net/LXO2Maya/
Let me know when you are ready.


I will look at the Point oven site and see how much it would cost to get us setup to go try that route. :wip:

softdistortion
07-30-2009, 12:16 PM
ovspianist- Sounds promising, and that's a sweet spec'd workstation you're considering...Looking forward to seeing what sims you can tear through with a machine like that and the speedy pipeline you outlined above. :buttrock:

Let me know when you get sorted with your vid clip upload.

softdistortion
07-30-2009, 01:03 PM
Tracking is under way and Victor is coming through like a champ.
Here's part of his last email-

"...I have something better already, but I had to involve one of the engineers of PFtrack into it…. I’ll take a few more days, but I’m getting there. It is really weird to have to track a shot that is longer than one minute.. usually lengths are about 20 seconds max, so this get into a new problem of what to do with the residual error between frames and how to compensate it."


We are so fortunate to once again have a small but incredibly talented crew of genuinely nice people to work with ...BIG thanks to all of you! :love:

ovspianist
07-30-2009, 05:36 PM
SD, i have to say you're welcome on this, and i like you as our project leader.
and the computer's chosen with the help of tech expert in our studio(i'm really stupid about hardwares...), he said the cpu is not selling out there in any shops, but we can get it contained in a dell workstation. one of our branches bought some of these workstation, and they're currently testing the performance and bugs, i hope it goes well and i can buy one after all those.

i think the video will correctly converted in a couple of minutes, it's still in the queue. and umm.. don't expect too much, coz right now it's just a demo, to show you what exactly the script does for us.

this is the new link:
http://www.vimeo.com/5843330

Good luck with you all!

softdistortion
07-31-2009, 10:19 AM
ovspianist-Thanks. New gear is always a nice boost with a jump to a system like that...been considering a new box myself, so please keep us updated on how you make out.

It's early Friday morning as I am writing this post, and I'm leaving in a bit for some time with my family, and no internets access...will be a few days till I get your video properly set up on the Journal site but I'll try to do it as soon as I return.

I did get your vid of the script downloaded and it's very intriguing...Looking forward to seeing more...also, thanks for doing a screen cap with explanation...it's invaluable for us as a team in more than one way, and also valuable for others having a chance to see the nitty gritty details of what we are doing on this project.

See you all in a few days. :wavey:

donShole
08-03-2009, 03:38 PM
donShole-

If you could install it I can send some model parts in Modo file format to see if it is any good for us.
http://www.battlefleet.net/LXO2Maya/
Let me know when you are ready.



Installed and good to go.

sllink
08-04-2009, 10:52 PM
Thats is a really neat function in Maya there the way it broke up the block into pieces based on the particle!! Wow!!.

Hi eveyone Im still around. Hope all is well.


SD, i have to say you're welcome on this, and i like you as our project leader.
and the computer's chosen with the help of tech expert in our studio(i'm really stupid about hardwares...), he said the cpu is not selling out there in any shops, but we can get it contained in a dell workstation. one of our branches bought some of these workstation, and they're currently testing the performance and bugs, i hope it goes well and i can buy one after all those.

i think the video will correctly converted in a couple of minutes, it's still in the queue. and umm.. don't expect too much, coz right now it's just a demo, to show you what exactly the script does for us.

this is the new link:
http://www.vimeo.com/5843330

Good luck with you all!

ovspianist
08-05-2009, 01:35 AM
Yeah it rocks! especially after the particles converted to locators, you can control every single loc if you wish. so that it's almost 100% control over the building process.

cheers!

softdistortion
08-10-2009, 10:26 PM
UPDATE

Ovspianistlast Maya particles clip is up onthe VFXjournal-
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/462.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=462)
Sorry for delay OV...hope you didn't mind the edits too much.

**If I link you to a mesh of the pillar can you do your particle breakage and send the result mesh back for UV/texture?

-------------------

Donshole- sorry for delay....sent you an email for Modo export file FTP info. :thumbsup:

-------------------

Victor from fxPhd.com is almost done the tracking for the first shot. The awesome guy.

-------------------

Where has sd been? :) >
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/467.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=467)

-------------------

donShole
08-11-2009, 05:15 PM
SD,
I see you haven't been away messing about :)

The .lxo maya import appears to work, not sure if the UVs came across properly. Have a look in the ftp, I've created a directory inside /copbot/ for the tests.

cheers.

N.B we'll still have to decide on how to get the animation back to modo.

softdistortion
08-12-2009, 06:49 PM
Donshole- Looks mostly ok on UV end. Thanks for the screen grabs and animation prelim :thumbsup:

I bit the bullet and grabbed Pointoven for you to try out on your end. I've been following their Yahoo group and from what I can see, I'm hoping it will solve our transfer issues.

It's node locked, so it's yours once we get it working on your machine.
Check your email for details. :buttrock:

Ovspianist- I edited the blog post and added links to your full video clip..also info on the plugin function.

Regarding pillars sims using this method...Please let me know if you can export mesh...possibly to Donshole who can then send the baked sims to me?

It's a pretty basic mesh, so if you can model the pillar and do the shattering of mesh you can find model info HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=243)

Basically dimensions are as follows>

Pillar- 7′ x 2′ x 1′
1″ corner edge bevel
Pillar top- 9′x9′x8″


I will UV and texture the results.

**I'm thinking we will need a separate fluid sim for dust/smoke?
Thnx

softdistortion
08-15-2009, 12:51 PM
OFF TOPIC-
Did a quick test to see how far you can push the low end of the tech and user elements for panorama photography and still get good results.

Can a person, without any previous experience, use her own point and shoot mini camera to create a quality 360 pano?

http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/486.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=486)
THIS VIDEO shows what's possible for almost anyone with a hardware store L bracket, a cheap tripod a point and shoot camera and a few minutes of howto instruction.

*To put this result in perspective-Feature films have used 12,000 pixel panos for film resolution quality. In this demo her 10 megapixel camera was set to shoot only 4 megapixels to save me time during stitch.

softdistortion
08-17-2009, 11:30 AM
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/copbot-aug-10_09-copy-1024x384.jpg

softdistortion
08-20-2009, 01:39 PM
UPDATE

Donshole has the PointOven Plugin working in Maya and will be doing import tests this week.

Ovspianist- where are you ?

Sllink- Hope all is well, sorry we haven't had a chance to talk lately. Will try to email this week and touch base with you.

Victor is hopefully gonna be delivering the matched footage this month so we can start working on scene setup and integration

gonkdroid
08-20-2009, 08:11 PM
lots of great info here. need to sit and read through.

subscribed.

softdistortion
08-22-2009, 06:59 PM
Glad you like it...Lots more to come! :wip:
I have a few things going so follow on twitter for one stop news updates.

donShole
08-23-2009, 09:07 AM
SD,

Check the ftp for the export tests. importing the mdd file into maya works. It works better on the lxo file - preserving the uvs. the .lwo file exported from maya by point oven doesn't appear to preserve the uvs.

Cheers

softdistortion
08-23-2009, 12:34 PM
Will check the files.
Thanks

softdistortion
08-24-2009, 07:21 PM
OH HAPPY DAYS! :bounce:
Check it HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=505)

donShole
08-24-2009, 09:06 PM
Excellent! That's a relief :D

softdistortion
08-25-2009, 01:04 PM
yeah, it is!
Will let you know when I get the full files up on FTP. :buttrock:

softdistortion
08-29-2009, 06:22 PM
Donshole- Took me a bit, but the 2 files are in the FTP.
I deleted the old files to avoid confusion, so there are only 2 new ones in .lwo and also .lxo.
You can use either or try them both ways via LXO>maya plugin and then export via PO plugin or use the .lxo directly into PO plugin.

I left in a ground plane so it's easier for us both to know where he is in relation when you animate. So keep in mind that will also translate when re-imported on my end.

Remember to not remove any polys ...let me know how you make out and try to document any thing you think is important for us to remember as far as what works best etc.


Slllink- You still around? I am slooow, but we should get started on that pillar regardless of what ovspianist is doing (internet issues lately) .
You have any ideas on how we could tackle the hi detail breakage pieces ?

DAZZAN
08-30-2009, 06:48 PM
Hi just wanted to say,i love this thread,and will come in so very useful to all who aspire to do a cg live action shoot,including our team.

Than you very much.

Really love that Canon 5d !

Also subscribed to collabunlimited a little while ago.


DAZ

gonkdroid
09-01-2009, 04:57 AM
great progress! i'm really liking where this is headed.

softdistortion
09-01-2009, 12:56 PM
DAZZAN-Thanks.
Need to get in touch with you re getting some info about your project on collabunlimited when I catch a breath.

PS: I don't see your registration coming through at the site but will look again...The main page reg is mainly a newsletter signup and also facilitates article submission for approved authoring members...I need to get more people into "artists network" section so will send out an invite link to that for you.

I'd love to get you involved with our plans for live broadcasting of our various work...In your case to show your hyper detailed model work for those interested in seeing how you are doing it. Let me know via PM or email if interested.


gonkdroid- Thanks man! Re your PM, yes we want you..VFX project 2 is slated to start production winter 2009/2010. More Scifi, more mechs, all with a snow planet theme. sould be "cool"...brrrrr! :buttrock:
Check your PMs for reply.

DAZZAN
09-01-2009, 08:26 PM
Hey pm Sent:thumbsup:

DAZZAN

donShole
09-09-2009, 12:43 AM
SD,

Just so you know. I'm working on the copbot file, doing some tests, there are still issues but I'll get in touch once I'm satisfied about what I can/can't solve on my end.

softdistortion
09-09-2009, 08:19 PM
UPDATE

Victor WolanskyI’m so glad Victor is working with us on this sequence!
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/536.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=536)

-------------------

gonkdroid-Thanks for PM and email addy....sent you an invite to the collab network site.

-------------------

DAZZAN- Sent you some details re the events. Also sent an invite to the collab network site.

-------------------

Donshole- Thanks for update. Don't hesitate to let me know whatever you need!

-------------------

I need to squeeze in time to contact Stacey and get started on that darn pillar model this week! :wip: :wip: :wip:

-------------------

The next VFX project is on the slow burner but it's taking some shape already. It's a Scifi script (naturally) set on an snow/ice planet.
I'm going to start a soft recruiting pass in the next month.

We'll need more people for this one, so any CG/VFX lurkers looking for a challenge PM or email me.

*I'm hoping to get some sponsorship this time and provide at least some small token of pay for people on the project

ovspianist
09-10-2009, 01:58 AM
Nice to see you again and congratulations on the tracking result, it's great!

Sorry that the internet has been out for such a long time, it's a huge earthquake that killed a lot of people in Taiwan. Really really bad news. Anyway i got back, and finally back to normal and maybe have more time since it's going to be a traditional holiday in China, we can have some days off! Cheers!

and i'm waiting for the pillar impact simulation, i hope it's going to integrate well.
today with my new workstation, finally, dell is really ... uh... :wip:

sllink
09-10-2009, 09:19 PM
UPDATE

Victor WolanskyI’m so glad Victor is working with us on this sequence!
http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/536.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=536)

-------------------

gonkdroid-Thanks for PM and email addy....sent you an invite to the collab network site.

-------------------

DAZZAN- Sent you some details re the events. Also sent an invite to the collab network site.

-------------------

Donshole- Thanks for update. Don't hesitate to let me know whatever you need!

-------------------

I need to squeeze in time to contact Stacey and get started on that darn pillar model this week! :wip: :wip: :wip:

-------------------



WOW that is so neat!!! Its like magic Victor is the man!!

Hi Guys hope everyone is having a good summer! If you need anything SD let me know. I'm always looking to learn knew things and contribute where I can. 8-)

sllink
09-10-2009, 09:28 PM
Slllink- You still around? I am slooow, but we should get started on that pillar regardless of what ovspianist is doing (internet issues lately) .
You have any ideas on how we could tackle the hi detail breakage pieces ?

SD when you say hi detail breakage pieces what do you mean exactly? Are we talking about a lot of polys or are texture detail?

softdistortion
09-12-2009, 03:07 AM
Sllink- Hiya!

I'm a poor modeler, but I guess I mean every piece has to have all sides modeled so is there an easy way to do that...our Maya sim guy says he can export the broken geometry from the particle plugin...that would make it easier than doing it from scratch by hand...especially small bits that all need to fit together as one pillar.

After all the breakage the bits are meshed I was gonna UV them and start texturing in fairly hirez and try to add some surface detail using Modo sculpting and export Nmaps or bumps or displacement maps.

Shoot any ideas out here...and I'll grab the LW model we already have with some breakage and start with that this weekend...mod it to the pillar dimensions and what not...I'll get in touch with you and we can decide how to divy it up once I see what's what.

gonkdroid
09-14-2009, 07:05 AM
bit by bit.

looking good guys.

softdistortion
09-18-2009, 05:39 PM
Thanks Tobin. :buttrock:

softdistortion
09-18-2009, 05:41 PM
UPDATE

http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/585.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=585)

Victor Wolansky completed tracking! This clip shows his final, rock solid test render.

In and earlier post I mentioned interesting developments might happen with this clip. Victor asked and of course we said yes…so it’s now being used as part of the advanced tracking classes at FXphd.com. Also looks like we may be doing more work together in the near future. :wip:

softdistortion
09-19-2009, 11:48 AM
Another update>

Broken Pillar texture-
I said I would texture the pillars last weekend, and I did, but I haven't had time to add decent bump details for the broken surfaces... no pics for this item yet, cause it looks terribly plain with texture on the lowpoly mesh.

--------
Tracking import for render-
Last nite I had a look at the files I received from Victor our tracking guy. We were setup to do rendering in Modo 401, but unfortunately the tracking app Victor used doesn't export files that work in MODO...It does export LW scenes, so I'm trying to convert the Lightwave scene file to work in Modo.

Soooo.... gave the LW files a try last night to see about baking the camera motion and loading that to MODO camera. Managed to get transfer of camera motion...now I just need to figure out why the pillars in the LW setup don't stay locked to the backplate. Also the .obj files seem to have no UV for the textures.

I'm sure if i was using Maya it would all load nicely, but noooo...I have to keep using apps like LW and Modo :banghead:

ovspianist
09-19-2009, 12:49 PM
Congratulations sd, the tracking test seems to be able to work with.

but i have a question, if it's meant to be a pillar impact shot, why do you want to texture a full pillar?

and if you can move to maya that will be great! coz those integrating problems will be no longer exist.

snot_nose
09-19-2009, 02:49 PM
hey, grate stuff
if u need more hands for animation i would be happy to get on it. I can work with maya, max and blender (but no LW, sorry)
i want to practice on some realistic animations with live action, and this project could be a blast.

u can check out my animations here
http://www.dancingshapes.com/showreel/showreel.html

softdistortion
09-21-2009, 03:00 AM
Hi Tal!
We're animating in Maya so you could fit in fine imo...I'll let Donshole know you are offering to help. :buttrock:

sllink
09-26-2009, 02:52 AM
Hey SD,

Everything seems to be moving right along nicely. I've been looking for you on MSN but havent seen you. I'll keep trying.

s

softdistortion
09-28-2009, 12:49 AM
UPDATE

http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/598.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=598)

Update on the pillar's path to sim nirvana!

http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/wp-content/thumbnails/596.png (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=596)

Victor Wolansky's Pftrack matchmove inside LW with a matching HDR dome.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sllink- Pillar model and textues are in FTP > /GARAGE_VFX_MODELS/PILLAR/MESH/Textured_Ver_01 if you wanna have a look...maybe try some of your Zbrush on it? Your modeling chops are better than anything I can do!

sllink
09-28-2009, 01:45 AM
Ok SD I got the files I will have a look a go at it. Catch up with you soon.

gonkdroid
09-28-2009, 05:27 AM
now that is cool.

the lighting is very convincing.

reflection in the eye with the hdri looks great.

nice.

snot_nose
09-28-2009, 10:15 AM
grate job!
does the model already have a rig to play with. if not maybe i could also help with that.
do u plan to make the final render in LW?

what's your references btw? i thought about ED209 from robocop and ghost in the shell

softdistortion
09-29-2009, 02:40 AM
Thanks guys.

Tal, I do think we could use your help...I emailed Donshole our animation TD..not sure where the rig situation is at till we hear from him. ..I think he is tied up with work or something ...he usually is on top of emails re the project...Hang in til he shows up. :buttrock:

Might have to render in LW, but would prefer if I can get it over to Modo cause it seems to render faster...I'm roughing it all together in LW for now since that is the file type I have from the PFtrack matchmove and finally got it working!


The robot is based on shirow, Appleseed book4

BOY1DA
09-29-2009, 06:34 AM
Looking good.. nothing more to say then that :)

DogmaD
09-30-2009, 07:52 AM
That HDR lighting really gives it an edge!

The pillar, and the low poly look, tricky one. I think the results you have so far are a good start. The inconsistency on the outside of the pillar...Maybe try two things:

1) Render pillar without the normal maps
2) Render pillar after you have removed the smoothing groups

It looks to me that either the normal map, or the smoothing group are giving you problems. As for cutting up the mesh, was this a manual process? In an earlier video, you showed an automated process, why isn't that used?

Manually, this is tricky. Personally, I would build the pillar in a different way, not cutting up the pillar, but only create a shell that matches the outside of the pillar, then fill this with shapes that approximate the inside of the pillar quite closely, but not so close that you get all these hard edges. I think this will give you more realistic results, because a pillar does not cut into these nice shapes. There will be a lot of smaller debris and dust, because of the friction in the pillar. There is no need to model that smaller debris and dust, it is easily added with VFX.

Hope it helps :).

softdistortion
09-30-2009, 12:22 PM
Thanks guys.

DogmaD- good to hear fprm you, and good suggestions, thanks!

The sim will have the smaller bit ejecting via particles, like you suggested.

The vid showing the model breakup being done via software and not manual would have been great, but the person that took the sim TD position seems to be having problems to keep contact and that means no help on that end from him. :rolleyes:

Sllink is taking a look at fixing the pillar mesh to make it look more realistic.
Yeah Sllink :buttrock:

PS: Still need to talk to you about model work for next VFX project starting Nov09...did you get my last email?

donShole
09-30-2009, 10:04 PM
@ SD
I'm really liking your work. Getting better all the time, just think back at shirowproject in 2004/5.

@snot_nose
what version of maya do you use? I'm using maya 2008.

snot_nose
09-30-2009, 11:01 PM
@snot_nose
what version of maya do you use? I'm using maya 2008.

that's cool with me.
where's the rig standing at now?
is there some kind of animatic?

my skype name is also snot_nose btw

DogmaD
10-01-2009, 11:33 AM
...
PS: Still need to talk to you about model work for next VFX project starting Nov09...did you get my last email?

Don't think I got it. got much freelance work/project these days, so will be tricky to fit it in.

softdistortion
10-01-2009, 12:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>see next post>>>>>>>>>

softdistortion
10-01-2009, 12:17 PM
donShole- It's come a long way.
One of my faves is still our cellshade work on the fuchi. The cell and your animation were amazing...odd camera angle issues aside...Even viewers were saying it was better than anything they had seen in commercial release. I agree.:)

Re your email>
This is a fairly complex project so my main concern on these shots was getting the matchmove and plates working. So while I always had some ideas, the animation was still pretty wide open and dependent on what we got tracked.

As it stands today, we have 1 good, long 360 shot ready to animate into. You can see it in the VFXjournal.

This wasn't one of the shots I had planned as the core of the initial story concept...which has been kind of thrown out the window at this point... It's not an issue though,cause it's already looking better than I had hoped, for our first VFX project...As things have developed, I'm now more interested in seeing the animation look very convincing than I am in sticking to a specific story or sequence I originally had in mind.

Below are a couple thoughts on possible animations>
*One idea I had for this 360 was having a center copbot turning as a second copbot walks/flies around the circumference of the pillars.

*Another idea was to go all out and have 2 bots battle in the center but also moving around the pillars and very close to the camera as they fight and maneuver.

*I'd like to get your thoughts (and Tal's if he has some) on anything you think would look cool and you'd would like to animate for the 360 film.

Whatever we decide, I'd like to have a bot coming right up to the camera at some point.

The backplates and Maya files are in the FTP> /GARAGE_VFX_TRACKING/ if you want to use them have a better look at what you can animate around

Also once we sort out the pillar look, we need to integrate that with some animation where the bot hits a pillar. This could be done in a separate animation for one of the shots I did that drive straight through the garage.

NOTE- these shots I still need to get tracked so it might be 1-3 months (depending on schedules) before they are ready to animate into.

+++++++++++++++

softdistortion
10-01-2009, 12:49 PM
Tal- Re animatics...there are not any done yet..see above comments I made to Donshole for info.

DogmaD- We had talked about a possible trade you needed some VFX I think you mentioned? Either way, I understand...when you get a second, please email me what your schedule looks like for Nov-Jan and what your fees are.

softdistortion
10-01-2009, 01:17 PM
Heads up for VFX2.

Hoping to do the next one by starting off with some illustration of the environment etc.
Below is a sample of work from one of the artists possibly joining. :wip:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/sqezavela/hunted-1kBK.jpg


VFX2 Schedule-

Sept/09-Oct/09
Initial Concepting is 80%complete!

Nov/09-Dec/09:
Launch project with promo illus
Start model building
Select actor(s)

Dec/09-Feb/10
Location/greenscreen shoot

Feb/10 -Aug/10
Reshoots/Post

Sept/10-Dec/10
Editi/Sound

As with all the projects this is a rough outline and is completely fluid depending on how things progress.

I'm funding VFX2 out of pocket but will also be looking for sponsorship and donations. This means I need to spread things out...combine that with the fact that every time we hit the animation section of a project things slow down VERY much ..because it is a huge job...
I want to keep moving and so I'm intent to get going on a second project even though VFX1 project is not complete and will continue during this second project's cycle.

Also have some thoughts on the future of the shirowproject that I will post in that thread soon. :buttrock:

snot_nose
10-01-2009, 07:04 PM
wow, total apocalypse! amazing illustration.
I understand that your plans for the VFX 2 is to do the opposite. using a live actor on cg environment, instead of cg actors in live environment?

as for VFX I
i think a good idea would be to somehow combine your 2 ideas.
i thought about :
-the 2 bots searching the area, they are togther in the begining (so we understand they are on the same side) and then splitting to different directions.

-showing the robot pick up something from the floor scanning it and putting it inside somekind of pocket in his body, to show that they are scanning/patroling the area. (this would be better when he is close to the camera).

-then one of them hear a sound turning around (fast) and hitting his friend by mistake.

i think the 360 shot could be good for the bots scanning/searching the area. and using the other shots for the bot hitting the other one into the pillar.
what do u think about it?

anyway it's difficult for me to give more ideas, because i still don't know what the movement capabillities of the robot except that he is a tripod. and what is his limitations, how does he use his weapons and so on.

if we had a car we could put into the scene for some more action and interaction (the bot chasing a car) it could be much cooler, but it also means much more work.

did u have some schedule also for this first VFX project?

donShole
10-01-2009, 10:13 PM
@snot_nose

Cool. I'm using TSM2 to rig the copbots. There's still some issues with the import/export to work through before the bots will be animation ready. but that's just a matter of time.

ThomasTheToolman
10-01-2009, 10:26 PM
Nice and good luck!
;)

softdistortion
10-02-2009, 03:26 AM
Donshole- If you think we still have I/O concerns, lets do another test with the whole bot...move his whole body around and export when you get a chance. If that imports with all geometry intact we should be ok I think.

Is the issue possibly due to poly duplicate sets from when I cloned his legs?...

Tal- I like some of those ideas you have! I would like to have some very realistic animation...even if it is just the one bot... before the end of 2009 to help ramp up interest for the continuation of development on the remaining shots for VFX1 and also to generate support on VFX2.

Animation is always a killer and it slows the whole process to a snails pace, so I can't set a schedule. If all we can get done is this 360 then I am happy...if we can do more than that's great too..

There is tons more footage we could use...up to 4 more good HD plates. Victor already said he would help do more tracking and there are some new guys asking to join from the promo he is giving us on FXphd.com So tracking is not a big slowdown...The bottle neck is animation. So imo no use tracking shots that might not get animated..How much we get done and how fast it goes is mostly up to whatever you guys can pull off.

Or we could outsource to China? :)

++++

Yes...trying keep VFX2 CG animation minimal .

snot_nose
10-02-2009, 08:34 AM
There's still some issues with the import/export to work through before the bots will be animation ready. but that's just a matter of time.

what exactly r u trying to do?
animation cache from maya to LW?

Animation is always a killer and it slows the whole process to a snails pace, so I can't set a schedule. If all we can get done is this 360 then I am happy...if we can do more than that's great too..

I have free time now since i'm currently not working, but i don't know how much it's going to last..
also i want to focus and aim my reel towards vfx studios (and this project is perfect for this). so whenever you have something i can start to work with let me know, because now it's a good time for me to push it forward.

but first we have to decide what we want to do and who do what

donShole
10-02-2009, 04:40 PM
Donshole- If you think we still have I/O concerns, lets do another test with the whole bot...move his whole body around and export when you get a chance. If that imports with all geometry intact we should be ok I think.

Is the issue possibly due to poly duplicate sets from when I cloned his legs?...



I'm working on exactly what I need from you. We know the import, animate, export works. Have to sort out the jointed workflow which didn't work quite as smoothly.

softdistortion
10-03-2009, 02:29 PM
Tal- yes we are using point oven to send point cahced model info back to LW...or Modo if I can get it into that app properly for render.

Donshole and I both looked at your reel and agree you would be a an asset to this project. I have a feeling now that Donshole is back online after getting hammered with offline commitments, we will sort things and get animation rolling with you also in the pipe.

Donshole-If possible I'd like to talk in realtime...I will try to be on Skype later today (7PM your time)...If other time is better let me know.
Thanks for your work on this!

donShole
10-04-2009, 01:09 PM
SD,

I'll be on skype 10-11 pm tonight (GMT). In the meantime, I've uploaded a screen capture of the issues at hand : Copbot issues (http://www.vimeo.com/6890933)

snot_nose
10-04-2009, 05:36 PM
r u going to use parent constraint or the regular parenting for the bot parts?
as far as i remember from past project, skinning each part seperatly to a bone was actually faster, at least much faster then parenting constraint when animating the character (i mean the character was moving faster and more fluid while animating and doing playbacks)

donShole
10-04-2009, 07:31 PM
r u going to use parent constraint or the regular parenting for the bot parts?
as far as i remember from past project, skinning each part seperatly to a bone was actually faster, at least much faster then parenting constraint when animating the character (i mean the character was moving faster and more fluid while animating and doing playbacks)


I'll just use regular parenting. Given that the scene won't be computationaly heavy, there won't be any point spending time trying to get skinning perfect for rigid articulation. As a side note, TSM2 setup skinning is actually very easy, perfect for organic creatures - almost no weight painting required.

softdistortion
10-05-2009, 11:31 AM
Donshole- doing that vid was excellent for helping understand what happened...thanks very much and lets keep doing that cause it's way better than text! :)


Does Maya not allow you to assign different selection sets without changing poly groups?

Either way, I'll get you a new version...tonite if possible!

I'm assuming you need all jointed limb sections as discrete selections...so will do that unless I hear different from you.

donShole
10-05-2009, 05:03 PM
I'm assuming you need all jointed limb sections as discrete selections...

Yes, exactly.

sllink
10-07-2009, 02:28 AM
SD,

Heres a link to some displacement test I did in MODO.

Test (http://vimeo.com/6938974)

Hopefully this will be up by the time you get the chance to look at it. It was going to take about 30 min to be available. In any case we should plan out the shot so we know how much detail is really needed. Questions to think about; is the exploding pillar going to have a closeup? How long will the pieces be visible? Will there be fine dust and smoke all around? In one of the initial reference you provided it was very quick and dusty with the explosion. Let me know. :)

donShole
10-07-2009, 05:25 PM
I wonder about the detail in the debris modelling and texturing. It may be worth rendering a few frames of animation to see what it looks like with the texturing as is. I think with addional debris particles and dust + motion blur what is already there may be sufficient.

softdistortion
10-09-2009, 11:30 AM
Heres a link to some displacement test I did in MODO.
Thanks for updating Sllink!

It made a difference, but I think it still needs something. The disp makes it look more like a bush than concrete imo.

I think it needs to have a custom nmap generated either from manipulating the texture and running it through nmap generator or by doing a zbrush hand sculpt on the surface and making nmaps from that

I had success with method 2 back when doing some cobblestone for MinasTirith....I recall you have ZB?? give it a try? Maybe also to sculpt in some detail for the hard edges cause they need the most work to make it more real looking.


In any case we should plan out the shot so we know how much detail is really needed. Questions to think about; is the exploding pillar going to have a closeup?

It depends how good we can make this look.
Like Donshole said, I think we can almost use it as is if we do the long shots with blur, so we could have our long shot impacts already, but....

All the other elements can support extreme closeup rendering.
so...if we do eventually get the pillar to that level I think we should also do a super slomo "bullet time" animation of the breakage that we can cut into the longshot.
Perhaps the classic rotate around the scene with camera move as well...passing through debris?? All depends how we make out on the model and sims.


How long will the pieces be visible? Depends on the point mentioned above.
Long shot only- visible for very short time
Slomo closeup shot- visible extremely close in high detail

Will there be fine dust and smoke all around? In one of the initial reference you provided it was very quick and dusty with the explosion. Let me know. :)
Yes, fine dust will also be needed but think of that ref as more of a general idea for what the elemnts in a real explosion looks like, not the template for what we are doing.
Ours should not be that big imo.

++++++++++

UPDATE ON SIMS-
Ovspianist is no longer working with us as sim TD.
No worries though...either we'll eventually pick up a new Sims person or we do it ourselves. :wip:

softdistortion
10-12-2009, 02:06 PM
Re ANIMATION-
Donshole- Emailed about link to model with changes...also about getting Tal going to possible speed up this leg? Let me know what's up.
I think we're too busy to do it alone before end of year? ...polling the forums for more help. :argh:

softdistortion
10-17-2009, 03:38 AM
Still checking regularly, so any news would be cool. :wavey:

snot_nose
10-17-2009, 09:52 AM
Im going to be away between the 24th of this month to the 2nd of november.
but if any1 can send me something to work on before or after this it will be cool.
and it will be better to do it before i get myself in a job. i would still do it, but right now i have free time and can push it much further.

softdistortion
10-19-2009, 12:45 AM
Tal-Ok, lets talk...will email you.

*I do want to say, I would prefer to have this go through Donshole, our animation TD, but I need to have something ready soon, and I'm unsure about when he will be able to return to this.

So Donshole, if you are reading this, continue with whatever you are able to do and we can use whatever turns out ok from you and Tal if he manages to do some animation too...and please forgive for stepping over on this. :blush:

sllink
10-19-2009, 03:52 PM
Hi SD Im still working on the details for the pillar. I had to do some research on the best method I did find out how to get rid of those bloches on the pillar cuts. We may be able use the exisitng model for a solid pillar shot. I will try and post some images. I've been trying to use the sculp tools within modo to get what we want before I take it into zbrush and increase the poly count to much. I will keep you updated as often as I can. Sorry its slow going, its me trying understand how modo works.

softdistortion
10-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Sllink- Thanks for your work and dedication, you're the best team mate a guy could have. :buttrock:

I think I came up with an idea that will ease a couple challenges.
Instead of doing this hirez shot as an animation, we could do it as a static scene...a stand alone set....forget about sims and do all the main concrete chunk placement by hand, then add in some dust and the bot and do the bullet time effect on that.

Then we can edit that into the film res scenes that have a lower rez blurred pillar explosion.

This way all we really need is to finish a good looking pillar with all the broken bits.

If that sounds good to you and you think it will save time, I suggest you forget about making the pillar as one peice and start setting up the chunks as a scene in mid explosion...then lets detail the surfaces to look real and I can place the bot into that and deform his mesh to fit the pillar breakage?

This allows us to be working on the animations (once Donshole or Tal or somebody makes progress) and also on this static frozen action scene. To facilitate securing more skilled help for VFX2 (starting this winter), I think we need to have something rendered to a high level before year end to help get more buzz happening.

With 2 options- either animated or bullet time freeze scene, maybe we can get one done.

Tal- Email has been sent, let me know you get it. Thanks

snot_nose
10-20-2009, 03:33 PM
softdistortion - can u please send it to dancingshapes@gmail.com (http://forums.cgsociety.org/dancingshapes@gmail.comm)
my excite account doesnt really work anymore.
sorry

u can also find me on skype by the name snot_nose

softdistortion
10-21-2009, 01:50 PM
Sent new email to your specified address Tal.

donShole
10-24-2009, 12:15 AM
Hey Guys,

Sorry I've been out of commission. I seriously over-estimated how much free time I would have on my hands this month. I'm moving house, so I'll be tied up for another week at least.
SD, no worries about "over stepping". things should settle a little in november.

Cheers

softdistortion
10-25-2009, 12:24 PM
Donshole- Thanks for checking in, was getting a bit worried. :)
Hope all goes well with the move.

Tal- I got your last email, still need to get time to look at your file, but it sounds like you might be busy even if it looks ok and works.


UPDATE- Looks like we have a new person to take a wack at the pillar impact sims. Samples he sent to show his work look Killer!. :wip:

sllink
10-26-2009, 06:59 PM
Aye Caramba,

Well heres a quick update. Well I kinda figured out how to paint a a texture map as well as create a displacement map and normal maps within modo. Results are so so. I will post images up tonight. We do have some issues with our pillar model. Im refering to the model with the debris missing. You know the one with the chunk missing from the side of the pillar.

I think we have a decent static whole pillar model that should hold up in an animation however the debris and the model with the chunk missing from the side need to be redone. The inside of the model wasnt connected to the outside of the pillar. I have redone the textures on the static pillar. I have redone the pillar model with the chuck missing but I havent started on the debris yet. I did try zbrush however when I divided the mesh to increase the polys there were holes in the debris and the pillar model.

I have completed the redo of the pillar model so we can increase the poly's and sub-d the whole thing as a solid structure but when sub-d'd it will seem very organic.

If I can keep my system from crashing I will try to redo the textures on the pillar with the chuck missing but I think Im going to start at a lower rez texture then get the teams opinion. I was creating them at around 4096x4096 I dont think my PC system could keep up, it kept crashing so I tried it on my imac it did a little better but not much.

If we are unable to get the edges the way we want we may have to model them in I think. Im open to any suggestions, so if you guys have any great ideas let me know.

:wavey:

softdistortion
10-27-2009, 03:28 AM
Sllink- it all sounds like you have been getting the frustrating end of the stick.
Did you get a chance to read my suggestion back a few posts?
I think we have the same conclusion, the intact pillar is no problem...the broken bits one is..it just looks fake without the extra detail on the edges.

I suggested earlier that we maybe do a freeze frame for this hirez render. That way we can model the debris pieces individually and also place them as we like it to look. I think we could use the mesh we have and just zbrush the bits till they look more real.

Don't worry about the texturing, I can do it pretty fast if you can get the geometry looking good. I also think zbrush works ok with hi detail on lower power systems too, so that may help also. I'm running 64bit with 8gigs, so I should be ok to load the parts to set the scene and render this in Modo.

Once we have the bigger pieces done maybe I can ask our new sim guy, Chris to do a spray of smaller debris and some dust and we can add it all together for the final render.

Does that make sense?

sllink
10-27-2009, 01:46 PM
Sounds like a plan SD. Looks like I need a new machine. Do you have any suggestions and or recommendations? 64 bit with 8gigs sounds lovely.

I will focus on the individual debris pieces. :D

softdistortion
10-28-2009, 03:22 AM
Depends on what you can spend.

Mine is an off the shelf Intel quad and I added an inexpensive Nvidia 1gig vid card. I went with 1 gig ro handle hirez texture work...LW was always crashing on me with to many textures.

You can do pretty good now at the box stores. I'd still go with a Core2Quad and not the i7 which seem expensive for the speed gain.

The bonus you get for buying now is you should be able to get a free upgrade to win7.

Modo is 64 bit and so is LW so you're good to go.

sllink
10-28-2009, 03:25 AM
Heres a quick update SD. All is well. Hmm the system must be getting backed up. I cant seem to upload my image.... I will try again later gnite

:D

sllink
10-28-2009, 03:51 PM
SD What do you mean by box stores? :beer:

(http://%20http://www.vimeo.com/7321988)
(http://www.vimeo.com/7321988) Debris Sculp (http://www.vimeo.com/7321988)

softdistortion
10-30-2009, 04:30 AM
Stores like Bestbuy. Quad (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B2+Quad+Processor/9541891.p?id=1218121457704&skuId=9541891&st=quad&cp=1&lp=6)
Slap in a geforce (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201305520548%20106792522&name=GeForce%209%20series) 9800 for $100 and you have a better machine than I do. :)

Re the sculpt...I almost missed seeing that link, but once I had a look, I have to say, that's looking way more real...Nice work so far...and I think you did a first on Vimeo with that tall dimension video...never seen any vid site upload like it before... that just makes it double Cool! :buttrock:

Can you use some of the hirez concrete shots I have as alphas to see what that looks like?

sllink
11-02-2009, 08:45 PM
Hi SD,

I downloaded some of the cement images you were talking about. I cropped them, then I turned them into alphas. I should have some images of the debris up soon. I had a new machine built and everything is wonderful again. :beer: 64 bit is a wonderful thing. Its such a huge difference. The biggest pain was reinstalling the applications... the 64 bit versions whenever possible.

Thanks for the excuse to get a new machine.... :drool: I broke down and got the i7 processor, 8gb, 1TBhd, GEforce GTX 285 OC 1024MB. You know what this means dont you... lol. It means we need to get to work now. :argh:

softdistortion
11-03-2009, 11:45 AM
Hi SD,
I downloaded some of the cement images you were talking about. I cropped them, then I turned them into alphas. I should have some images of the debris up soon.


Hope they worked out ok.

I had a new machine built and everything is wonderful again. :beer: 64 bit is a wonderful thing. Its such a huge difference.
I felt the same way when I switched...the stuff that used to bog was smooth to work on again.

What version LW you have btw? If it's a newer version I have a file I need checked to see if it is having issues due to my older version of LW.

The biggest pain was reinstalling the applications... the 64 bit versions whenever possible. I hear that...I dread my next machine, cause some of my apps have been bought by Autodesk and I'll have to probably pay before I get a new lic from them...if they even transferred my info with the buyout . :cry:

Thanks for the excuse to get a new machine.... :drool: I broke down and got the i7 processor, 8gb,
SWEET.

1TBhd, GEforce GTX 285 OC 1024MB.
EVEN BETTER!

You know what this means dont you... lol. It means we need to get to work now. :argh:
I needed to hear that. Lets do it! :wip: :wip: :wip:

-----------------------

UPDATE- ANIMATION
Tal, aka Snot-nose has joined us for animation of the bot. He will start with animation for a closup on the bots face and a little bit of walk motion passing the camera. This is mainly to get something short and sweet rendered out for people to see and keep interest going.

After that short intro animation here's what I'm thinking we need to do-
We only have one good clip tracked so far...it's the circling shot that you can see on the VFX vidlog. I'm going to fit our 2nd animation around this clip for now and do a previs for a 2 bot fight scene inside this circle.

UPDATE- SIMULATIONS
Chris is our new sim TD- He's been given a free hand to do his magic http://www.chrisborefx.com/stuff/RayfireTests.mp4
If things go well he'll hopefully also hang out with us to work on the 2nd animation sequence.

sllink
11-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Ok, heres the new debris with imaged alphas +. The image alphas definitely helped not only as alphas but also as great references! In some of the sculpting I was able to lay down the alpha then I was able to trace/carve within the alpha to get the image from the alpha. If only GOZ were available for windows today. The next version of Zbrush should have the GOZ for modo.

More Debris (http://www.vimeo.com/7406430)

SD I have LW 9.6 if you want to load the file to the netdrive i can download it from there. Speaking of autodesk, I still havent tried to load MB6.1 to my new machine yet for the same reasons you sighted. I think I will leave that where its at. MB still runs smooth on that machine. Its funny I was looking at some old anims for Shiro project from can you believe it 2004? lol I think I will try and find those scene files and cellshade them and load them in the other forum for fun.......:p



UPDATE- SIMULATIONS
Chris is our new sim TD- He's been given a free hand to do his magic http://www.chrisborefx.com/stuff/RayfireTests.mp4
If things go well he'll hopefully also hang out with us to work on the 2nd animation sequence.

WOW! What software is he using that looks so freaking awsome! Welcome Chris!:D

sllink
11-03-2009, 01:07 PM
double post

softdistortion
11-04-2009, 03:11 AM
Hey..Vimeo put your vid on private setting...it does that sometimes for no good reason.
We can't watch it till it's reset to public. Sounds like it's gonna look awesome though. :)

I'll upload the files with info on what we need tested later today- they will be in a folder named TESTFILES

Re MB, you know all that work we did to get the petition going and finally have AD recant on killing of MB lics on our older versions...I tried and install a few months ago and the 3rd party lic server is no longer up and running...so , smartly, they conceded to get us to stop complaining, ran the lic server for a year and then quietly shut it down anyway. On one level I don't like they way the treat users, but on a another you gotta admit, they know how to run a successful business.

I also gotta do a shout out for Adobe being the best company( in my experience) for ho they treat customers. Last week I called to see if I could upgrade AfterEffects to do the comping on recent and upcoming work.

Seems I forgot to register my PS CS3 and they didn't even have me down as an owner of PS! Yikes...I NEED PS!! Anyways, I couldn't find my serial and the rep said no problem, I'll generate a new serial for you and register you with CS3.

WOW! That's an offer to give a new copy of CS3 instead of making me find the serial or buy a new copy at my expense. Rock on Adobe :buttrock:


--------

2004...we been around a while huh? Lets see it! :)

sllink
11-04-2009, 05:39 PM
Hey..Vimeo put your vid on private setting...it does that sometimes for no good reason.
We can't watch it till it's reset to public:)

ok it should be fixed. Give it a try.

softdistortion
11-05-2009, 12:20 AM
The alpha sculpting looks really much better.
Keep me updated on how you are making out, then we can texture and add the smaller debris to set the scene for the pillar and I can do a damaged bot impacting.

The files for LW9.6 test are uploaded for you to try out. TESTFILES folder with a readme info text
Thanks!

sllink
11-12-2009, 12:38 PM
SD,

I imported the Debris geometry back into Modo for render testing. Please have a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I couldn't get a decent turnable render out of Modo. (Still learning how it works) I couldnt find the codecs for the 64bit side of my system the only animation codec avaialble was wmv or sequence and I just realized I dont have any video editing software for the 64bit system. Do you have any recommendations? :)

Modo to Zbrush testing: normal map, bump and displacement maps (http://www.vimeo.com/7565451)

softdistortion
11-13-2009, 03:21 AM
Looking very good!
The i7 is paying off ...virtualization..8 buckets rendering...SWEET!

Keep some notes on your transfer and settings for Modo disp.

For vid, I bought sony vegas to work with my AVCHD camcorder, but I love it all round and it's my main go to video editor right now. http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiope ...I've used it on alll the vids on my vimeo account.

your mileage may differ, but I found it very intuitive and was working with it right after installing...never cracked the manual yet. Also it's very responsive for playback and editing changes without sitting and waiting forever before it's done updating. :)

If you have a big budget you could go to the top line Vegas pro which I think has full 64bit installer. It's more than most will need, but hey...it even supports Red 4k. :D

snot_nose
11-23-2009, 03:12 PM
first animation WIP.
http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_linear.mov

rigged and animated in blender 2.49
Im almost done with the posing, unless u think i should change something.
Im not sure about the last poses before he starts to walk. it gives him some character, but also makes it a bit more cartoony then realistic.
I still need to work on the timing (things, like the walk will probably be slowed down so the video might be a bit longer).
still gonna add much more breakdowns and much more elements will move and overlap, i wanted your opinions first for the posing and the current timing.
unfortunately I used IK through the whole animation of the legs. that's why i have a lot of problems with the "aiming gun" hand/leg (it looks a bit like stop motion right now). i should have switched to FK when the Hand/Leg is off the ground and use the ik only for the walking part. i need to find a way to copy the animation into the fk mode or just use the ik and add much more keyframes.

the bot was skinned into the rig because i can export mdd only as one whole object and not seperated meshes. but luckily skinning in blender is done with vertex groups, so it made the process faster.
the only places that needed real skinning (the deformedble areas) are the antenas (which will move in overlapping) and the first joints between the body to the legs, which was a big problem to skin, and it doesn't deform very well, because of its topology. the loops are formed in a spiral weird way. i can show on a picture what i mean if u want, but i guess its too late now for fixing.
I can right now 'hide' the bad deformation in the animation posing
also i think that this part should have a flexible material like rubber, since it's deforming, and also it can use as the 'weak point' of the bot

let me know what u think...
http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_linear.mov

softdistortion
11-23-2009, 05:38 PM
So far I have no complaints...I like what you are doing...was a bit worried when I saw the legs hanging out of the sockets on the pipeline test animations you sent last week, but I figured you would fix that and you did.

Technically the legs are metal and should not deform, but hey...it looks good anyways so go for it.

If you haven't checked it already, I'd apply some smoothing to make sure you're animating with proper parts alignment, cause the mesh base rez will not give a 100% accurate visual...Also maybe slap on a UV grid to check the texture distortion if you do some more severe deforming poses.

Overall I gotta say I am impressed not only with what you have animated so far, but that you stuck with it when the transfers didn't work on the first or second try!

Not to take away your thunder .... However, to facilitate the project getting more material out, I'm wondering if you would be open to (eventually) making your rig available to qualified people on the Blender forum...maybe we can speed things up a bit and get more animators on this now that we have a working setup? Not that you are slow....it's just a lot of work for one guy....

Infact, it would be nice to get a bit of an animation team started...You could care for animation TD if you are into it and add some more experience to your resume?

snot_nose
11-23-2009, 10:55 PM
yeah sure, i also thought to get the rig published on the blender artist forum, but i prefer to do it once Im done with this animation of this bot and the render is out (so i hope the rendering part won't take too long).
but I should remind you, this is my first rig in blender, and it's not the best and most comfortable rig.
also the body to leg joints are an issue. when it's smoothed it's even more noticeable. I already spent some hours trying to skin it and i think it's a problem of topology.
maybe you can fix this area and i can try to use the skinning copy of blender, and hope that it will work out instead of re-skinning everything again.
maybe i can try also to make another extra bone for fixing the deformation if nothing works out.

I've uploaded another mdd test (http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01test.rar) just to make sure that i didnt **** anything on the way now and it's still working. u can also see the problem with the joints on the legs (especially the middle leg)

what about the animation? do u think the poses in the end fill too cartoony for this job? do u think the timing should be slower and heavier in general?

btw are u going to render this with modo or lightwave?

softdistortion
11-24-2009, 03:11 PM
MDD checks out fine....will post more reply tonite.

softdistortion
11-26-2009, 03:34 AM
Ok Tal,
I rendered a rough take to have a proper look.
You were still working on this , so i understand it ill get smoother.

If you can make it move a bit heavier...for ex. body could drop a bit on some moves as the feet plant...and smooth out the stop motion poses feel, then the poses will probably be ok.


Sllink, Donshole and Chris...Can you guys please check in and update when you get a chance?

---------------------
On another note...
Have secured some professional concept art for VFX project #2 and while it's been a bit of a roller coaster, we have some pretty cool stuff coming together.

I think VFX2 is gonna be a pretty exciting project to be part of, especially considering VFX1 was a first run at a project like this and it got some pretty hi end heads turning.
Besides connections to Fxphd it also caught the eye of Zoic Studio's (Battlestar Gallactica, Firefly & Serenity, as well as the current shows Fringe and True Blood) head recruiter.
...it can't hurt you to be seen on a project that gets attention from studios like that. :arteest:

With that in mind, we need hard surface modelers soon...if you (or anyone you know) is willing and able, contact me via PM or email :buttrock:

..

snot_nose
11-27-2009, 09:20 PM
new update still WIP (http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_linear03.mov)

need to add more overlapping parts like the armor, the antennas and leg bumpers, some more work on the leg and smoothing out the curves and so on.

let me know what you think so far.

maybe it should be better to start to work on the rendering so that once Im done with the animation you will only need to hit the render button.

the camera should be at the same location more or less, Im not sure if it will work out from different angles.

softdistortion
11-30-2009, 02:36 AM
Tal- in response to your last animation clip- video comment/feedback clip at the vfx site> HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=646)

sllink
11-30-2009, 03:04 PM
Hey guys,

I just watched the latest WIP. I think the first snap that SD is referring to is intentional its like a switch blade motion to wip out the claws? I think, at least that's how it looks to me.

Im still here. Im not sure how much better I can make the debris model will continue to tweek. I will play around with adding some color textures to it in Modo. Let me know if you think I should do something else SD.

Also is the sonyvegas software good for compositing? Otherwise I need to think about a good compositor besides DFX+


S

snot_nose
11-30-2009, 03:36 PM
yeah the snappy movements were pretty intentious.
also from my experience usually things looks a bit slower after render.
but anyway i added one more frame for each of this movements and made them softer. later we can decide what we like better.

Ill try also to make the leg joints less twisted.

hopefully I might manage to finish this through this week

softdistortion
11-30-2009, 06:23 PM
Thanks guys!


Sllink- I'll think about something else to do..keep us updated on how the textures are looking.

For comping, it depends on what you want to comp...most packages allow comping of some kind...what do you want to do?

I use after effects for comping and fx. Vegas for regular editing with text and sound/music etc.

If I had the time and cash to drop on it my choice of the moment would be Nuke for it's 3d abilities. I'm doing similar stuff using multiple apps i already have, but to be able to do projections and color correction and mesh setup all in one app with a fast scanline render would be nice. :D


Tal- Sounds good, but don't worry about the legs I think they will look ok. The extreme case was the top joint, but with rubber texture it should look better.

snot_nose
12-03-2009, 01:19 AM
UPDATE! (http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01.mov)
let me know what u think.
i added a small audio part from black sun empire. i think some dark electronic music could fit good into this clip. maybe we can ask someone to volunteer for some sound effects and background music?
I will upload the mdd soon. after i animate the small eyes (that are not visible in the preview).

hope to see a render soon...

softdistortion
12-03-2009, 03:54 AM
Looks good.
feedback tomorrow.

jkt
12-03-2009, 09:50 AM
UPDATE! (http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01.mov)
let me know what u think.
i added a small audio part from black sun empire. i think some dark electronic music could fit good into this clip. maybe we can ask someone to volunteer for some sound effects and background music?


*raises hand*

I emailed just now, before I read this thread. Well, I emailed somebody ;)

I would be happy to volunteer. Check out www.impactgameaudio.com (http://www.impactgameaudio.com) for demo

I am more interested in sound design and would be thrilled to design some sounds for this critter. I can also do music though, and have experience with electronica. That's what got me into composing, even though you don't hear much of that in my demo.

Check it out and drop me a PM or email (jay@impactgameaudio.com)

I'll wait to hear form softdistortion and see what he has to say.

softdistortion
12-03-2009, 12:16 PM
Hi Jay,
Thanks for your help.

The animation Tal is working on> http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01.mov
Is pretty well set as far as major moves.

Use it as a guide and start collecting the soundFX for this shot. Let me know when you have something coming together.

Was thinking to go back to the garage and capture some ambient sound from the shot location and also do some on location FX recordings...not sure I will have time though :surprised


ANIMAtion FEEDBACK STILL COMING :wip:

jkt
12-03-2009, 10:01 PM
Cheers should be able to have a first draft of sounds next weekend.

Hi Jay,
Thanks for your help.

The animation Tal is working on> http://www.dancingshapes.com/SD/take01.mov
Is pretty well set as far as major moves.

Use it as a guide and start collecting the soundFX for this shot. Let me know when you have something coming together.

Was thinking to go back to the garage and capture some ambient sound from the shot location and also do some on location FX recordings...not sure I will have time though :surprised


ANIMAtion FEEDBACK STILL COMING :wip:

softdistortion
12-04-2009, 08:14 PM
Animation Feedback is UP HERE (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=651)

Shout out for Tal's work...I know you are watching. :wavey:
ALSO>Comments are open on the VFX Journal- leave a shout out for Tal! :buttrock:

snot_nose
12-05-2009, 09:12 PM
jkt: glad to have u aboard.
My suggestion for u is if u can to accentuate the heavy feeling of the bot with the sound/music.
my main inspiration for this animation was listening to dark drum n bass while animating.
obviously u can do whatever u like. just telling u my influence.

I wrote also a reply in softdistortion's video journal, maybe jkt should also read what i wrote there to understand which sound effect should be

softdistortion
12-06-2009, 10:47 AM
-copy pasted Tal's reply form the VFX journal for people to have context here as well as there.

snot_nose says:
Hey. thanx for the feedback.
my intention wasn’t making a gun fire. he was supposed to CHARGE his weapon.
about the back legs stretching i agree, i will try to play some more with this part, maybe pull them out more so that they don’t stretch so much.
did u make some test renders to see how the joints look like? do u think it looks ok with the rubber material or should I work some more on their deformation?

Ok, I saw the front part pf the main claw look like it was discharging and retracting...but I get it...Maybe the sound will fix it too.

I think the rubber should look ok, so you can concentrate on the rest of the animation work.
--------
Re sound>
In communication with Jay/jkt on sound...already reviewed his 1st iteration ...which he had created and sent with lightning speed...and sent comments for next version.

I'll be honest, I'm not plannin on music with this first clip, but will see what happens as it develops...I'm more interested on solid bot and ambient sound to compliment the visual levels we have.

softdistortion
12-07-2009, 01:15 AM
snot_nose says:

if u do want to add fire effects, it should be after the moment that he think he see something.
u should have told me before if u do want, but anyway i can hold this pose a bit longer and add some shakes for the fire .

not sure how much time i will have to work on it anymore though. i start to work today on a new project, and i hope to finish this one tonight and send u the mdd

Tal, I’m very happy with how your work turned out, however, I did tell you what I was hoping to see, and that was largely ignored in this animation….that’s fine, cause it ended up looking ok.

When I saw your animation with no explanation, I just assumed it was a firing move….anyways…If you can add a bit of body reaction it will look like a shot fired. If you don’t get to it we can make it work as it is with sound fx to match.

Please let me know when/if you will be available again…there’s more to do for the tracked shot..

Also we need to discuss the rig file with some info on your setup re finding more blender animators. There’s a lot left to do for animation!

snot_nose
12-07-2009, 03:11 PM
UPDATE (http://dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_small_eyes.mov)
I animated the small eyes (which u can see also in this clip)
added body shake for the gun fire after the surprise reaction.
made the up and downs of the walk a bit bigger.

THE MDD (http://dancingshapes.com/SD/take01.zip)

Ill try next week to organize the rig a bit more and write some explanations about it.
when this clip will be rendered ill put it on blender forum and ask people to continue with the animation

hope to see a render soon

softdistortion
12-08-2009, 02:47 AM
Tal- That looks very good.

It has a lot of character, and I think the last bits you added (even if it came from some mis-communication) added even more. Thanks for the final touches.

I'll wait for you to contact me about the blender file and info.

Maybe we can work together again some time in future :buttrock:

Barring techinical issues I will try to have a finished clip in the new year...it's only a few weeks away...I better get moving. :deal:

jkt
12-09-2009, 11:18 PM
Cool, ill just focus on sound design for the bot and if we need music or anything later I can do that. If we do, I would envision subtle textural / synthetic music. Almost sound design rather than music stuff, you know what I mean? Some kind of creepy and modern sci fi audio textures here and there in the background to add to the mood of it..but I will have a play with that when we are near the end.

sllink
12-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Hi Guys hope everyone is doing well. I have added some color to the debris using MODO paint however the color seems to be missing. I'm not sure if its something I'm doing wrong or what. I'm going to try again tonight to get some color in the exposed areas of the the pillar but that's the only area I seem to be missing the color. I'm using a texture to paint but its not showing up. I will try and get a image up tonight if possible.

s

softdistortion
12-11-2009, 02:07 AM
JKT- Sounds good...also emailed some info.

Sllink- You might need to go back the shader tree and make sue you click on the texture you are painting into.

EdtheHobbit
12-11-2009, 09:12 AM
Hey SD!

Whenever you get around to the next project, let me know, I might be interested/able to help out!

*subscribed*

sllink
12-11-2009, 05:35 PM
It turns out I didnt have the Global illuminations settings quite right so the color was pretty dark grey even though I was using the same backdrop image. Im still figuring out these blurry renders and stuff. I gotta get some new codecs to render to besides wmv and MS 1 on 64bit.

Video (http://www.vimeo.com/8120196)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2720/debris100.png (http://img99.imageshack.us/i/debris100.png/)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7719/losslessdebris6.png

softdistortion
12-12-2009, 03:46 PM
EdtheHobbit- would be cool to have you join in. :)

Sllink- Wow! That's what it's supposed to look like. Nice organic edges with concrete breakage surfaces rough and random. :applause:

Only comments :
1- did you also rough up the polys that were the pillar exterior surface? Cause they are supposed to be fairly smooth...Looking at the vid (coool by BTW) I think you did rough the ext surface, so...not to worry..lets set up the scene and see what it looks like as it is.

2- are you using the proper pillar exterior surface textures as your base for those areas?

3- are you also still doing the main pillar's broken surface?


Thanks for your detailed work on this :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

sllink
12-13-2009, 04:30 PM
Hi SD,

1- did you also rough up the polys that were the pillar exterior surface? Cause they are supposed to be fairly smooth...Looking at the vid (coool by BTW) I think you did rough the ext surface, so...not to worry..lets set up the scene and see what it looks like as it is

I think I can turn somethings down and get it smother I have all the maps on; normal map, displacement and 2 bumpmaps I will turn off the dis. and see if that will smooth out a bit more. lol

2- are you using the proper pillar exterior surface textures as your base for those areas?

Yep. Used the exterior images you took in Image ink to paint those surfaces (color only)

3- are you also still doing the main pillar's broken surface?

Aye... :argh: I forgot all about that. I will pick up it should be easier than these pieces.

Thanks for the feedback its always, always helpful! :buttrock:

softdistortion
12-16-2009, 04:29 PM
Glad it helps.
As always, thanx for all your work. :love:

snot_nose
12-16-2009, 05:06 PM
i saw the test render in the video journal
i dont know if its slow motion in purpose or not but i thought it might be important to remind that animation was done in 25 FPS!
also i think its better to keep the camera angles close to what i had because i worked mainly from this angle (especially for the walk).

the render looks awesome, hope to see some results soon.

softdistortion
12-16-2009, 05:44 PM
Yeah, will probably end up having to keep a static camera position...it's just sooooo boring.:)
I'm trying a few things to maybe add some spice...the slomo is intentional....might zoom the end if nothing else. Also did a 360 and it looks ok if you don't freeze frame...maybe some blur?? :wip:

BTW, Something happened while we were messing with the ground removal and now the MDD no longer works in Lightwave with my HD footage that was tracked. Can you let me know if you will get time to sort it out? If you can, I'd like to also set this copbot animation you did into the center position of that tracked footage and maybe get you to add a second bot circling him.

...still waiting to hear about the files...soooo...cheeky I am....not showing more progress till I get some Blender love tooo. :D

snot_nose
12-16-2009, 05:51 PM
it could be nice a camera movement, but a small one and from the same angle more or less.

I didnt understand what was the problem, and what u want me to do.
is the copbot animation works in lightwave without the HD footage? if u yes then can't u just import the mdd and then after import the footage into the same file. maybe lightwave tries to calculate the ground plane into the mdd vertex count.

I also didnt understand if u want me to center the bot in the middle of the track. cant u position the animated mesh in lightwave if u parent it to a master object?

softdistortion
12-16-2009, 06:31 PM
K thanks, I'll email you about it.

sllink
12-18-2009, 01:43 AM
Ok heres an image without the Displacement. Its a bit smother. Let me know what you think.

video (http://vimeo.com/8252027)


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2538/withoutdisplacement.png

softdistortion
12-19-2009, 04:02 AM
Yes, it's smoother, but we're losing the broken surfaces detail.
We need to keep the rough interior broken surfaces and return to the flat extrior.

Maybe painting a weight map for a gradient to fade off displacment maps on exterior surfaces, and on for interior?

sllink
12-22-2009, 01:27 AM
Hi SD,

I went back into Zbrush and smoothed out all the outer surfaces or at least those surfaces I believe to be outer surfaces :D. I then recreated the displacement, normal map and color maps. I also increased the size of the color map in modo to 4096x4096. I then adjusted the opacity of the displacement and normal maps to around 50% opacity to lower the roughness on the cracked surfaces but not to much to lose to much detail on the inside. Let me know if this works. We can tweek details if you feel it still needs it.

I think Im going to go back to the original mesh again and create another version either way. Zbrush and modo is fun!! I can wait till the next version of Zbrush comes out for the PC with GoZ. If I was doing this in LW it would be painful. In Zbrush all I had to do was reapply the displacement map and then smooth out the outer surfaces and then export both maps again and apply them to the exisiting mesh. If you get the chance SD feel free to put notes on a digital image of the debris pics I posted where you think some adjustments need to be made its no problem at all. Im getting a new wacom for xmas :D!

Let me know what you think.

Also (http://www.vimeo.com/8284790) Pillar video here.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6476/redodebrissmooth.png

softdistortion
12-23-2009, 02:54 PM
Hi Sllink-

I think one or 2 look near perfect :thumbsup: , but many still have deformed exterior surface and that doesn't make sense if it was a chunk out of a flat surfaced pillar.

Sorry if I'm irritating for being a stickler. :D

I'd suggest you take off the mesh deformation on all the ext. surfaces and have mostly a sharp edge on the transitions from flat exterior to roughed broken interior.

That might mean redoing the whole thing and masking the flat surfaces so as not to alpha brushing the exterior?

I know it sounds like a pain, but it will probably be faster than tweaking the one already brushed out of shape.

I'd also have another look at the textures if you do redo...Roughness is good, but it looks like the interior is a bit over dirty on textures. Might also be lighting...I'll upload the garage HDR for you to use as dome light source for more accurate colors.

sllink
12-23-2009, 03:16 PM
Hi Sllink-

I think one or 2 look near perfect :thumbsup: , but many still have deformed exterior surface and that doesn't make sense if it was a chunk out of a flat surfaced pillar.

Sorry if I'm irritating for being a stickler. :D
Not at all.

I'd suggest you take off the mesh deformation on all the ext. surfaces and have mostly a sharp edge on the transitions from flat exterior to roughed broken interior.

That might mean redoing the whole thing and masking the flat surfaces so as not to alpha brushing the exterior?

Agreed. Im gonna go back to the original mesh and start a fresh sculp

I'd also have another look at the textures if you do redo...Roughness is good, but it looks like the interior is a bit over dirty on textures. Might also be lighting...I'll upload the garage HDR for you to use as dome light source for more accurate colors.

I believe I am using the HDR as the source of lighting. I will shoot you some screen grabs of the settings. I may have it set incorrectly. :surprised

softdistortion
12-23-2009, 04:13 PM
Ok, or upload your scene file and I'll look at it.

...the hard shadow suggests another light overriding HDR...maybe you just missed to set the main light off or lower.

We should get dropbox setup since now we both can't use our Netdrive on 64 bit :banghead:

sllink
12-24-2009, 03:47 PM
Dropbox looks like it will help out a lot. Lets get it going I already have stuff all over the place and between machines. :D Let me know what you need me to do. Merry xmas bud! Hard to believe the year is almost done.

softdistortion
12-24-2009, 08:43 PM
Yeah, it went by pretty fast. :)

I sent you a dropbox invite to your sllink AT aol.com email, so if you want to upload your scene files go ahead and I will have a look see.

For files all over the place syndrome...I DON"T HAVE THAT PROBLEM...NOOOOO I DON"T!!! :D
You can sync all your machines if you install dropbox on all of them! Maybe I will try that tooooo!

all the best to you over the holidays!

sllink
12-28-2009, 08:49 PM
Ok SD,

We are up and running with dropbox. I will let you know once I put up the file. Im just about done recreating the debris again. I also believe I was losing a lot of the sharpness when I was subdividing the mesh in zbrush. With that in mind I had to re-flatten those areas in zbrush to maintain the hard-surface look vs. organic weathered look. I started with the orginal mesh and had to do some work on the non-planar polys in LW and bring it over to zbrush.

Did you get a chance to look at the pillar in the previous post? Let me know.

I hope everyone has a great New Year!!

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7269/newhardsurface.png

softdistortion
12-29-2009, 01:14 AM
Sounds good, will keep an eye open for the upload notices.

Thanks for sticking with it for a redo, it's looking so much more accurate. :thumbsup:

Other UPDATES>
Jay's sending steady updates on the sound fx and things are shaping up.
Render is running at 15mins per frame, so I have about 5 days of rendering to do on the single machine I have here at the moment. Then fixups for any drop frames etc, then comp...blah, blah...

I know it seems it's always a terrible wait to see the final shot, but it takes HUGE work to get it all setup finished. I've spent an age extra till today just tweaking textures and checking camera movement, and I'm still not sure it is 100%...

Anyways, if all goes well it shouldn't be toooooo much longer. :wip:

snot_nose
12-29-2009, 03:17 PM
wanted to know
are u still going to render it in slow motion with all those camera movements? (i hope not)
also are u going to add the fire effects when he is shooting?

softdistortion
12-30-2009, 03:46 AM
Thanks.
I'll email you today about that.

sllink
01-06-2010, 12:45 AM
Well I was having some problems today getting the mesh out of zbrush today. I finally managed to export a high poly mesh out of zbrush and render in modo.


http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7260/notexturesdebris.png

http://img704.imageshack.us/i/notexturesdebris.png/

softdistortion
01-08-2010, 03:23 AM
I saw you uploaded to dropbox and took it for a quick spin.

good news- It looks really good.
Not so good news, it takes 17hrs to render 1 frame with GI.

Well, maybe we can still do a short bullet time segment...

I am getting a couple more quad render nodes to help speed things up on the current render which is still not finished. So we can use my 3 machines and your i7 (if available) and see how far we get.

The animated bot render frames i have so far look saweeeet.

Sound is at revision 8 and still in the works.

sllink
01-08-2010, 08:32 PM
Hey SD,

Well I have another version I worked on yesterday with less polys. I also turned off the displacement and used the normal map instead. The render time depending on how far zoomed in your are varies at least with the settings I have. Again they may be all wrong. I will upload this second mesh and images as well. So you can test it out.

I think I may need you to take a look at the image I'm using for the texture/with image ink. I set a texture map a 4096x4096 ok then I used a cropped a pillar image your took as the paint. I think the original was 4096 by 4096 but cropped its like 4096 by 1028 or something other than 4096. I will put up a image and show you what I did. I cropped the image so no matter what part of the image I use as paint it only paints the pillar image vs the back ground or sides of the garage that would get painted on the pillar if its in the image.

p.s. did you see the pillar video a couple of post back??? (not debris)

softdistortion
01-09-2010, 03:54 AM
Thanks.
I'll have a look at the second mesh and image map.

I tired your vid clip but it was set to private...don't know why but I have that happen on some of my uploads too. I have to keep checking settings to make it public.

softdistortion
01-10-2010, 01:04 AM
It's been a bit of wait to see any renders...still some issues to sort, but there's a nice update to look at in the Vidjournal (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=682)

sllink
01-11-2010, 12:58 AM
Hey SD I uploaded another debris file. It Renders in 13seconds. It occurred to me that since the mesh is frozen based on a subd level so adaptive subdivision is not needed when you render. I did two renders to make sure, 1 on and 1 off. please take a look and let me know what you think.

I also put the pillar image Im using for texturing its not even 4096 x 4096 up on dropbox for you to take a look at its 842 x 2498

softdistortion
01-11-2010, 02:11 AM
Took a look, but not sure I follow. You mentioned a normal map, but I don't see one, and the UVs look to be coming out of Zbrush with a new unwrap, so the old Nmap won't fit?

The full sculpt still looks better and after a few tweaks I think I got it rendering faster.
I tried the pillar texture that you mentioned and was in the dropbox folder, but it doesn't fit either from how it looks on my end.

I saved and uploaded what I had so far.
FILENAME> debris_pillar_ver03_sd_jan10_2010

The dropbox might look a bit different... arranged the folders a bit.


-----------------
Rendered and added the missing frames from that copbot clip.
Some issues but take a look either way. www.vimeo.com/8661198

snot_nose
01-11-2010, 03:10 AM
the render looks cool.
I uploaded a new version of MDD (http://dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_fix.rar) with legs on the ground and some changes applied to the animation
I also tried more or less to move the camera to a similiar angle to yours to fix some staging issues, u can see the preview of this mdd here (http://dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_newcamera.mov)

some comments, explanations and questions:
first i want to say that its strange for me that u rendered from this distance because we first talked about doing a close up, but the render is very far and from a different angle.
if i knew that u wanted it to be this distance and angle i would do some things differently
maybe for u it doesn't matter but for me as an animator the staging part was an important thing.

first thing that i noticed now was that his back leg was really popping in the begining. before it wasn't visible because of the different angle. anyway i fixed it now in the new MDD.

somehow, the the render seemed much faster then the original animation. did u speed things up maybe? did u use 25 FPS? anyway i also added some frames in the begining when he lifts the front arm to recharge, so that the movement will start smoother (this part looked really faster then before). i think you can re-render the whole begining until the end of the recharging part, because of the changes and the legs that are attached better to the ground

the first movement of the face claws is almost invisible because of the angle. they are being hidden by the hand when he turns around i also wanted them to peek out from the hand like how (http://dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_final.mov)i staged it before (http://dancingshapes.com/SD/take01_final.mov).
i think maybe i should have tried to export the camera to u before so that u could get the angle that i wanted.

the walk wasnt ment for this distance and some legs hardly had any keys because they were hardly visible before. anyway i added now some more keyframes on the legs and fixed some issues of the walk. it still doesnt look as i would like it to look but it looks better now for this distance and angle i think.

as for the rendering:
i would like to know what kind of passes/elements/layers/however its called in lightwave, you have (like diffuse, shadow, ambient occlusion, etc.)
is the preview that you uploaded already have some composting or is it only the main pass?
looks like everything could use at least more ambient occlusion.
are u gonna add also a roof plane (like the ground plane but for the top)?
because right now the roof disconnects the robot from the image, it looks like it needs some light/shadow on it, coming from the bot (maybe only AO phass on it will be enough)
the pole and the pipe seems to me too saturated then rest of the image and also i think could use some AO

anyway this were my comments, but i think it already looks cool.
the fire effect with its light on the environment would be probably a bit tricky.

I would be also happy to be involved a bit in the progress of the sound so that at least there won't be miss understandings between the animation and sound...

let me know if the mdd works fine, and if the legs are sitting better on the ground plane.

i think it could be cool if someone could add some Dust Particles when he is walking. could add more weight and realism to the project.

btw i get private video msg in vimeo for your last update...

softdistortion
01-11-2010, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the feedback and fixes.

I understand what you are saying....I think what happened was you got into the animation and went way further than what we discussed for the first clip. I wanted to start with a closeup, so I only asked for a bit of animation on the face claws and eyes...but then you gave me the whole 9 yards. Also I had the impression that you would not be available to do a second animation...take that together, and I had to shoot it WIDE to show it in a satisfying way.

Another reason I wanted to do a wider shot than your framing, was because it's easy to do it when you don't show any foot ground contact, just slap a backgorund image in the back and render.... I wanted to go beyond that, but again, I didn't think you would be doing a second animation for this type of shot,so I used what you gave me.

I think maybe the solution is to render a clip especially for you to use on your portfolio...one that has as close to exactly your framing that you liked.


I agree about the face animation being lost behind the claw...I haven't shown it yet, but I wanted to edit in a cut to a closeup of that , so it will be in there.

The sound is progressing. Our sound guy is GREAT. Unfortunately while he has an amazing studio and is skilled at scoring, he is just cutting his teeth on foley and fx. The end result is that we are on revision 9 of the audio and I'd say it still has 50% of the fx to be added and finalized.

I'll try to upload something with the rough sound on it so you can hear what's happening. Bear in mind though, to try and be happy that you even get a clip with sound!

*will try to let you know how the MDD loads later today :thumbsup:

sllink
01-12-2010, 02:32 AM
Hi SD,

I have uploaded a new file. I loaded all the textures in the texture folder
the Modo scene file is "debris_redo_007lvl4_New and improved" if there is too much bump feel free to dial it down.

Heres an image of the shade tree with maps

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1236/texturesettings.png
By sllinkshirow (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sllinkshirow)

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6717/debris0090.png
By sllinkshirow[/URL

[url="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sllinkshirow"] (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sllinkshirow)

sllink
01-13-2010, 01:16 AM
Hi SD,

These colors are driving me crazy lol. Anyway while I was waiting for feedback I started working on the pillar to get some practice in. We can dial back the bump. I exported a decent mesh from from zbrush this rendered in about 20 seconds.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2613/pillarpano.png
By sllinkshirow (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sllinkshirow)

softdistortion
01-13-2010, 03:23 AM
Sorry for delayed reply.
I still have to get to looking at the files, but the last pics you uploaded look to me like you are getting it nailed now....maybe clean up the over-spray of texture on the broken edge and maybe a piece of the rebar could get added from the texture refs?

If the debris can match that pillar and still render at a decent speed, I think you have taken it far enough for our impact scene.

Nice work and thanks for sticking with it, it paid off!

snot_nose
01-13-2010, 03:41 PM
Slink, it looks grate!

SD did u check the file, is it working good?

I saw the other 2 videos you posted on vimeo (with sound and 1 with the beginning of the walk) and looks super cool. amazing how the sound can bring more life to the clip.

some small suggestions
i understand that its too early for comments on the sound, but just to make sure... when he is recharging his gun in the beginning i think there should be sound of recharging gun (chk-chk) and not sound of hitting something. when he turns around and scanning the place would be good to make sound of scanning (like the computer scanner)

anyway already look and sound grate, really looking forward to the end result.

btw any plans to get this to siggraph 2010??

softdistortion
01-13-2010, 04:54 PM
MDD file seems to be working fine. Any chance you could extend the walk at the end of this..could just repeat what is already there?

...would be nice if the walk section of the animation could be made into MDD for a seperate walk animation around 5 sec?

Re sound- yeah, it's still in rough stage. I asked our sound guy, Jay to start with only the footsteps till that was as solid as he could get it and now we are moving on to the rest.

sllink
01-14-2010, 01:18 AM
Ok I put both meshes in the same scene and it sure helped work out some of the inconsistencies I had. The color works pretty good but I had to redo the the inside surface of the debris, it did'nt match the inside of the pillar. It would appear that on the initial textures I used on the exposed surface of the debris was scaled to small so putting the two together worked out great to keep things consistent. I was able to add the rebar in, 2 of them actually.

as for the rendering speed have look for yourself here: RENDER TEST (http://www.vimeo.com/8730299)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6889/debrisandpillar.png
By [URL=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/sllinkshirow]sllinkshirow[/URL

softdistortion
01-14-2010, 01:19 PM
Nice work.
Ok, so we need some dust and smaller debris...you up for that?
I'm thinking displaced image planes and stuff like that.

I need to work on some muzzle flashes...hmmm...planes...volumetric lights... :wip:

New machines should be here soon, so also will get networking and render farm sw setup and running...haven't had to run a farm for a while, and to be honest, not looking forward to it...stuff like that is creative draining imo. :hmm:

sllink
01-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Nice work.
Ok, so we need some dust and smaller debris...you up for that?
I'm thinking displaced image planes and stuff like that.

Thanks. I up for anything although Im not sure what you mean by displaced image planes exactly. I have an idea. Are you talking about an image or animation with alpha image projected on geometry?

I need to work on some muzzle flashes...hmmm...planes...volumetric lights... :wip:

I may have some muzzle flashes around


New machines should be here soon, so also will get networking and render farm sw setup and running...haven't had to run a farm for a while, and to be honest, not looking forward to it...stuff like that is creative draining imo. :hmm:

[/url][url="http://img46.imageshack.us/i/flashm.png/"]http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4347/flashm.png (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4347/flashm.png)

softdistortion
01-14-2010, 02:51 PM
Ok, well go ahead and start some exploration for how to add in the dust...and yeah, was meaning alphas on image planes...the displacement I think will be needed because I want to do a freeze and rotate through the debris and flat planes would not look very good.

We might also be able to do it with LW particles and compositing. Will need some experimenting.

Cool...Do you have animated muzzles? what is the resolution?

sllink
01-14-2010, 07:16 PM
Ok, well go ahead and start some exploration for how to add in the dust...and yeah, was meaning alphas on image planes...the displacement I think will be needed because I want to do a freeze and rotate through the debris and flat planes would not look very good.

Oooo this sounds like fun...!!! I will try a couple of techniques and we can pick what works and looks best.


We might also be able to do it with LW particles and compositing. Will need some experimenting.

Yea, Im thinking the same

Cool...Do you have animated muzzles? what is the resolution?

Yes I do. I can render out at any size however the muzzle flashes are images with alphas.

softdistortion
01-14-2010, 07:29 PM
sounds good, look forward to seeing what you come up with :bounce:
Any chance I can get the flashes to look at and try in comp?

softdistortion
01-14-2010, 07:39 PM
It's uuuugleeee, but here is a first run on the tracked footage (skipped each 2nd frame for speedier render...hence the jumpiness) we have from the garage shoot.
LINK (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=700)

snot_nose
01-15-2010, 01:17 AM
MDD file seems to be working fine. Any chance you could extend the walk at the end of this..could just repeat what is already there?

...would be nice if the walk section of the animation could be made into MDD for a seperate walk animation around 5 sec?

i cant really repeat whats there because its not a walk cycle and he dont walk in a straight line. but it shouldnt take a lot of work if i will add something like 2 more steps since i already have the timing more or less nailed (I can also probably copy the up and down keys of the y axis and make the rest from it)

I also thought to make a walk cycle that u can reuse but i cant really tell u when i will have time to make this things right now.

once the current render is ready with sound i hope to get some time to organize the rig and publish it in blender forum.
I think maybe there is a chance also that we can get this into blender presentation of siggraph. at least to show how it collaborates with other softwares.

keep us updated.. :beer:

sllink
01-15-2010, 12:42 PM
sounds good, look forward to seeing what you come up with :bounce:
Any chance I can get the flashes to look at and try in comp?

Hi SD,

I rendered a sequence for you yesterday and put it in the dropbox.

softdistortion
01-15-2010, 01:38 PM
snot- yeah, I understand.

sllink- thx, will have a look today.

softdistortion
01-20-2010, 02:28 PM
UPDATE

ANIMATION-
If you look at this clip> 360 CAMERA (http://softdistortion.com/vidjournal/?p=700) ....it only shows less than half of the tracked camera footage we have. The full clip circles in a full 360...so if you imagine where the camera in this shot starts also being where it ends, that's how much tracked footage I have.

The animation we have so far does not even allow 180 degree of that footage to finish before the bot stops moving and sits. I know it's a lot more to fill over double the time for him to move, but if he could keep walking or do something else I could make a render with the full 360. Which would put this in another level also just for the length of the shot we would have. Almost NO one tracks shots this complex and long with tracking occlusions etc...Infact, if we didn't have Victor Wolansky on tracking, it wouldn't have happend imo....so it is outstanding from that technical area also.

*this 360 is the footage I wanted to do the 2 bots battle scene with, and you can probably see how it would look amazing with that in it. I'm using it for this since it's all we have right now *

I think to help fill out the rest, you could let him stop and sit for a few seconds in between movements, and also reuse some of your existing animation. Since we would be seeing him from different angles while the camera circles, the same animation will not look identical from the new angles.

Any progress with the rest of the clip and the sound?
would like to say yes, but I am having problems getting the networking and render nodes running. It will be a while I think before I am up to 100% production speed...I only have so much time to work on all of it and adding network/render farm management job to my work is not helping.

Sound guy, Jay, is still working. He wants more details on timing, but if you add animation adjustments, I won't give him that yet....I outlined that he should make his setup flexible and be prepared for a few version of this clip.


SOUND-
We're thinking of doing some animation tweaks, so can't give accurate timing for all motions till SN is done.

Main elements should remain close to what we already have shown would still be "cachunk" loading sounds in the recoil movements he does before and after the gunfire.

I am not sure we need scanning sounds, although, add them so I can hear what you have in mind...mainly I want to hear more varied servo sound for his limb motion.

Rough it in as best as you can with sounds in the caliber we have it at now, and let me hear what you are adding.


EXTRAS-
Sllink is working on the impact scene and has the pillar looking pretty great so far. He's now working on some dust and smaller debris cloud FX.

The shot idea at this point will be a frozen "bullet time" shot ala "The Matrix".
It will have the camera moving in a semi circular path -with the robot in a still frame impact on the pillar.

Likely the bot mesh will be modeled/modified to have dents and broken bits flying off him as he hits the pillar.

jkt
01-20-2010, 07:30 PM
Hey yeah that's fine. I'll source a few more sounds and get them ready to implement, but I won't finalize anything until the animation & camera is done. Keep me posted.

Cheers looking good all

Jay

snot_nose
01-21-2010, 12:07 AM
the overall timing will be almost the same for the sound i think i will just make some movements stronger, like the shooting part (more movement and sharper) and stronger drops for heaviness and some more shakes on the body, more in the walking part. but the timing i think will be almost the same, maybe the part when he turns slowly i will make a bit slower but will take some frames from the next movement, so that there will be more contrast between the movements.

I dont think i will manage to fill up the 360 degrees. because i think most of the movements will not look so good as they are now from the back, and its too much work for me now (i will need also to match the camera movement in blender) the only thing i think i can do for now is a walk cycle that u can reuse. and maybe for now we can take part of the shot (not the whole 360) and put the walk cycle inside and then to cut into this shot (maybe part of the 360 in the begining and part in the end).

I will be glad if u can render also from the same angle that i did for me. its more important for me that it will be the same angle then the same distance. i will probably also use just part of it (for the claws movement) and cut to the shot that is already rendered.

any testings with the fire muzzle?

sllink
01-21-2010, 03:00 PM
UPDATE

EXTRAS-
Sllink is working on the impact scene and has the pillar looking pretty great so far. He's now working on some dust and smaller debris cloud FX.

The shot idea at this point will be a frozen "bullet time" shot ala "The Matrix".
It will have the camera moving in a semi circular path -with the robot in a still frame impact on the pillar.

Likely the bot mesh will be modeled/modified to have dents and broken bits flying off him as he hits the pillar.

Hey everyone!!

Im having way to much fun. I been researching every possible way to complete the debris dust cloud and enjoying every bit. The new Blender aphla 2.5 SMOKE is incredible I will post some vids soon. I wish LW could do that as easily as Blender. LW seems to provide more control but doesn't look as fluid whereas the physics calculations in Blender drive the smoke naturally. In either case we may even be able to comp both together to get the look we are looking for. :) I will certainly try.

softdistortion
01-22-2010, 07:55 PM
Tal- emailed you.

Sllink- Sounds promising lets see whatever you get happening. :buttrock:

sllink
01-25-2010, 03:00 PM
I will post what I have so far up later tonight. I've been researching just about every conceivable way to do this (at least available to me). I've managed to render at least 2 or 3 versions. The scene is a pillar and wall with bullet impacts and fragments flying with smoke trailing from the holes from where the bullets would be impacting the wall. However my first try with some basic settings worked fine. I increased the density of the mesh and I started getting some collision errors so with that in mind I may have to calculate each particle scene separately then save the particle motion to get the correct effect. Then bring it all back together without having calculations. I have books everywhere along with magazines however its been a great learning experience plus a lot of fun.

I tried rendering the particles as surface voxels also sprite cards as well as FX Linker geometry. We can apply multiple image sequence cards if we use sprites however for testing I only used one so they may look a lot alike.

softdistortion
01-25-2010, 07:49 PM
ahhh, you tease, now I'll spend all evening anxiously checking back. :p

sllink
01-26-2010, 02:29 AM
Hi SD,

Heres two vids. I have another but I didnt have the space to upload. I will put copies in the dropbox for your review as well. The video I wasn't able to upload uses cards on the sprites that I rendered as an animation image sequence of a piece of the debris from the original model spinning round.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9412/bulletjb.png

Video1 (http://www.vimeo.com/8985022) (without MB and less smoke)

Video2 (http://www.vimeo.com/8985236) (with MB and more smoke)

softdistortion
01-26-2010, 11:45 AM
That looks really promising Sllink, nice work.
The way you have the pillar getting hit could possibly be tied in nicely with our existing sequence of the bot firing his gun...now he has a target.

Will look at the rest of the vids and give some more detailed feedback.

sllink
01-26-2010, 01:33 PM
Its a pretty neat little setup if you get the calculations done in the proper order. All the debris, smoke and displacements, are all driven by a parent emitter that acts as the Gun. I didnt render the sprite gun fire though but I could have. We could put actual geometry inside the pillar (rebar cage) that could also be exposed due to the displacement. Would probably only hold up in a long shot though. I found this method in an old 3dworld mag I think its about a year old or so its when LW9 came out so it uses some nodes?

Did you ever get that render farm setup? I was working on setting mine up last night but I ran into a snag. The error I think is due to LW64bit vs 32bit. Im using my 64bit machine as the server however when I try to run the starnode bat file that lodes the LWNS file from the server machine it says the file isnt 32bit. My farm has 3 32 bit machines in it but now Im not sure I will be able to use them or not.

I was wondering if you have run into this issue? I've been looking for you on Messenger havent seen you?


:wip:

softdistortion
01-27-2010, 01:24 PM
SLLINK-
Its a pretty neat little setup if you get the calculations done in the proper order. All the debris, smoke and displacements, are all driven by a parent emitter that acts as the Gun. I didnt render the sprite gun fire though but I could have.

Looks super...It will take our shots up another level if we get it integrated properly...which you know we will! :D


We could put actual geometry inside the pillar (rebar cage) that could also be exposed due to the displacement. Would probably only hold up in a long shot though. I found this method in an old 3dworld mag I think its about a year old or so its when LW9 came out so it uses some nodes?

Rebar I would be perfect...wanted to have it but didn't think we would be able on this project.

I upgraded to 9, so I am ok with nodes as long as they are setup in the scene file...I haven't had time to find my way around nodes yet.

Did you ever get that render farm setup? I was working on setting mine up last night but I ran into a snag. The error I think is due to LW64bit vs 32bit. Im using my 64bit machine as the server however when I try to run the starnode bat file that lodes the LWNS file from the server machine it says the file isnt 32bit. My farm has 3 32 bit machines in it but now Im not sure I will be able to use them or not. I was wondering if you have run into this issue?

No, I haven't cracked it yet. Haven't had the issue you are having with 32bit, but then I haven't even got that far yet...All but 2 machines are Vista 64 and that OS is a pig for networking imo...I never had problems on XP, but this time it's a royal pain with V64. Vista has so much idiot proof security stuff that it does... invisibly...you have to figure what it's done before you can do what you want. :scream:

I have 2 more machines coming this week and picked up a new 8 port switch, so will be busy for the next while trying get it all sorted into the existing wireless Hub. :banghead:

After the network is up and running I'm thinking of using BNR (http://butterflynetrender.com/) controller so I have one controller setup to run LW,Modo and AE on the farm boxes.

Would be cool if you get your machines setup too...maybe after that we can see about linking our farms over the net?? exciting times ahead.

I've been looking for you on Messenger haven't seen you?

Sorry, haven't been on MSN much lately :blush: ...will try to remember to login cause I do want to talk more about the great particle FX you have done.

softdistortion
01-27-2010, 01:29 PM
UPDATE-

*Tal's request for a replication of his camera position is almost done...will try to get it uploaded for Jay to have for sound...then posted in next day or 2.

**Need to post updates on the above and Sllinks particle vids in the VFX journal ASAP.

***Reviewing model tests submitted by applicants for VFX2

****Cracking the render farm setup...also will try to do some info vids for peeps following this stuff.

sllink
01-27-2010, 03:52 PM
:wise: SD you are full of info!

Thanks for the info on ButterflyNetRender. Im gonna download the trial version and give it a shot. I will model a rebar cage and stick it in the pillar and re-render so we can see how it looks. You know I was looking for those bullet impacts you textured in the Shirow forum to see if those could be used as the impact displacements but I couldn't find them. I thought those we be pretty cool if we could get those to work.

Also after thinking about this setup Im gonna experiment to see if we can get the same or better results from a easier setup. I will keep you updated.

Im so spoiled with this new machine..lol I turn everything on and hit render without caring anymore...lol. FPrime 3.5 shows particles too. Oh the joy :scream:

softdistortion
01-28-2010, 02:28 AM
:wise: SD you are full of info!

Thanks for the info on ButterflyNetRender. Im gonna download the trial version and give it a shot. I will model a rebar cage and stick it in the pillar and re-render so we can see how it looks.

NP, let me know how you make out with BNR.
Rebar would be great to see in there when the surface blows away.

You know I was looking for those bullet impacts you textured in the Shirow forum to see if those could be used as the impact displacements but I couldn't find them. I thought those we be pretty cool if we could get those to work.

Dude, that was so long ago, I don't even remember what I did for that render. :D

Also after thinking about this setup Im gonna experiment to see if we can get the same or better results from a easier setup. I will keep you updated.

Sweet.

Im so spoiled with this new machine..lol I turn everything on and hit render without caring anymore...lol. FPrime 3.5 shows particles too. Oh the joy :scream:

Fprime? hmmm...will have to ad that to my list. :)

snot_nose
01-28-2010, 02:32 AM
SD thanx I appreciate it.
did u maybe also added some lights from the gun fire? or do u want to do it later in the comp?
(I mean lights that affect from the fire on the bot and environment)

I hope to find some time soon to work on the walk cycle. I cant recycle what i already have because if i will just copy the keys the bot will jump back to the first position of the first step. i can only copy the up and down and rotation keys.
when i will make a cycle the bot will move in the same place all the time and u will need to move it forward (and then u can move him as much as u want), or i can move it forward myself and maybe make a bit of variations on the steps, but then if i will send u the mdd like this it will limit the animation length.

Slink do u still plan to use blender 2.5 for the smoke? it will be cool if there will be more use of blender in the project, even though its still the first alpha version.
i wanted to move the project into 2.5 things seem to work fine except that the mdd export is still not integreted in it.

softdistortion
01-28-2010, 02:36 AM
Tal- the render is done, but it still looks too fast compared to what you wanted. I don't know why, cause I reset everything for your 25fps.

Can you double check you saved the MDD at that frame rate?
=============

I can keep adjusting and re rendering or try to time map it as close as possible to what you sent in the vid clip...what you want to do?

Re muzzle flashes- yeah I am not happy with it yet, so will need some more time to work on it.
There's a few options, just need time to test them out.

===============

Walk cycle would be cool as loop or longer MDD that you add variation to...If possible on of each? :)

snot_nose
01-28-2010, 03:23 AM
hey cool, send it over and ill just slow it down a bit in the editing for now.
the mdd says 25. maybe ill ask in the blender forum if someone know something about this.

if u have a sequence or something i can use for the meantime for the muzzle flash, can u send it also, maybe ill use it for the meantime