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Mangled Poly
07-10-2003, 10:13 AM
wieght maps are not sticking

in the right hand i have re painted it like 5 times even closed and reopened lw but for some reason ill paint or calculate weightmaps and for somereason it will save the whole skeleton right execpt for a couple bones in the right hand?

3DDave
07-10-2003, 05:17 PM
I don't see how the bones (Skelegons) would make that occur to the mesh?

I have been using this skeleton for several of my characters and have adjusted the weight maps on the mesh without any problems.

You may want to look into how your making your weight maps? Also the names of the weight maps that you are making may not correspond with the maps on the bones. You can change this in either Layout under bones/properties or under the Skelegon editor in Modeler.

Let me know if that helps?

Mangled Poly
07-10-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by 3DDave
I don't see how the bones (Skelegons) would make that occur to the mesh?

I have been using this skeleton for several of my characters and have adjusted the weight maps on the mesh without any problems.

You may want to look into how your making your weight maps? Also the names of the weight maps that you are making may not correspond with the maps on the bones. You can change this in either Layout under bones/properties or under the Skelegon editor in Modeler.

Let me know if that helps?

I realize its not the skelegon nto sure why i linked name with it its just ive never had this problem till i tried your sekelton....

the maps are assigned right, and im painting them in vertex pain then normalizing... then they look perfect in vertex paint then i press save and it says it saves, but when i go into modeler to look at the maps they arnt there

SplineGod
07-10-2003, 06:16 PM
vertex paint will sometimes mangle weight maps.
After saving see if you can see the weights with the viewport set to weight mode.
Another thing, I would try not using weight maps at all first.
I rarely have to use them or when I do theyre so simple that I dont have to use vertex paint.
Change your bone falloff to ^128 and start testing defomrations.
See if a hold bone or two will help hold certain areas before moving on to using weights.

adrencg
07-10-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Mangled Poly
wieght maps are not sticking

in the right hand i have re painted it like 5 times even closed and reopened lw but for some reason ill paint or calculate weightmaps and for somereason it will save the whole skeleton right execpt for a couple bones in the right hand?

i believe its a bug....

It happens to me all the time, and how I create my weights has nothing to do with it. Sometimes, there'll be one point that will not attach to a bone and i have to clear the map in that area and re-assign the weight map value to the point(s).

As a side note, I've been getting away with some really nice weight bends by just using these basic weight zones:

Right arm, left arm, Right Leg, left leg, head (no torso weight)

Having a weight map for every little bone in the model is overkill in most situations, just make sure the fingers are aspread a good distance apart when setting up. Having a weightless torso assures that no weigh maps are crisscrossing each other, thus eliminating many of the headaches that go with weightmap setups(blending of maps....aaaaargh!!!!) Try it.

just make saure the head bone is set to 1000 strength and turn off Multiply by rest length.

-- and i am using 3d Dave's superb skeleton, by the way.


And oh....get FI's weight map blur plug for ultra smooth map fades. Your hips will never bend better....




Mike

SplineGod
07-10-2003, 10:04 PM
If you go thru the process in a logical way it will save tons of headache and time.
1. Apply basic bones
2. Set falloff to ^128 as a starting point
3. Pose character to test deformations
4. Add additional hold bones.
5. Adjust bone rest length, falloff etc to adjust deformations.
6. Add weights as a last resort

Adding weight maps to every bone is a bad habit to
get into. Adding weights to most bones is not much better.
If weights are needed make one for each arm for example and assign all the bones for that arm to that weight. Multiple
bones can be assigned to the same weight map.
In most cases I rarely need to use weight maps.

Petrik
07-11-2003, 09:39 AM
Damn I should have been paying more attention to Kevin when he was going through his rigging methods at user group. I know he didn't bother with weight maps.

At that time I had not got to the stage of animation yet and so most of it was way over my head. I am now following Albee's book and although he claims not to be too hot on weight maps (and in fact does not really go into it that much other then to start you off with the leg) has you doing weight maps for pretty much all the bones.

Well better get back to studying some more on this topic. When I'm done with Albee I've a got a few characters of my own that need to get some life put into them.

SplineGod
07-11-2003, 07:03 PM
The logical way would be to put weight maps on last. The other thing is Ive never run into a situation where I put weight maps on every bone...thats just asking for trouble IMO. Thats tehy way you would do it im Maya but with Lightwave its totally unecessary.
In Lightwave you put bones into a character, rest them and they work. With the selectable falloffs you can quickly get pretty good deformations. Even Newtek said that with the newer falloffs you dont really need weights (but theyre there if you do). In most other 3Dapps you have to assign points to bones.
The amount of tweaking that you would have to do would be tremendous and not fun at all. Did you get the rigging CD? Kevin did because it sounds like what he covered is the same philosophy I cover on the CDs. :)

Mangled Poly
07-11-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
If you go thru the process in a logical way it will save tons of headache and time.
1. Apply basic bones
2. Set falloff to ^128 as a starting point
3. Pose character to test deformations
4. Add additional hold bones.
5. Adjust bone rest length, falloff etc to adjust deformations.
6. Add weights as a last resort

Adding weight maps to every bone is a bad habit to
get into. Adding weights to most bones is not much better.
If weights are needed make one for each arm for example and assign all the bones for that arm to that weight. Multiple
bones can be assigned to the same weight map.
In most cases I rarely need to use weight maps.

I guess this may seem to be the logical way to you but to others it may not be, i see bone wieghts starting to become more popular in programs like motion builder, which i use.

SplineGod
07-11-2003, 09:40 PM
Logical for me is based on doing it for hours a day for months.
It makes sense to start applying weights if the software you use is designed to use them to pin points to bones.
Lightwaves bones work as soon as theyre turned on.
It doesnt make sense to start using weights when they may not be needed or needed in only a very simple way.
Ive seen people spend literally hours creating and tuning weight maps only to find out they were never needed in the first place.
Testing deformations first before deciding what needs to be fixed/tweaked/pinned down IS logical. :)

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