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olson
03-30-2009, 06:05 PM
Looks like they are out in the wild now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340727%201652541690%201652846898&name=Nehalem

The 2.66 GHz model (X5550) is much more expensive than I would've figured at $979.99 each.

vlad
03-30-2009, 07:28 PM
But the 5520 2.26ghz is pretty cheap at 380$. Heck, the 5345 2.33ghz Clovertown that I bought 2 years ago is still more expensive at 500$ :curious: Figure that out...

biliousfrog
03-30-2009, 07:32 PM
They do seem expensive although the 2.26 offers best bang-per-buck with the i7's, I suspect that the xeons will be the same.

I just got an email from BOXX with their new nahelem workstations and I was surprised at how expensive they are, especially after seeing the Lenovo ones and the Mac Pro's. The Boxx's work out approximately double an equivilent Mac (2.26ghz) at over $6k with 12gb RAM and single HD.

olson
03-30-2009, 08:41 PM
There is no 2.26 GHz Core i7, the slowest is 2.66 GHz. Keep in mind that the Lenovo probably comes with only a single processor in the base model, not sure if Apple does that or not. Cheers!

Benr
03-30-2009, 09:09 PM
It looks like Tyan has more reasonably priced dual LGA 1366 motherboards for these xeons compared with Asus. I wonder when any reviews will come out.

aglick
03-30-2009, 09:15 PM
They do seem expensive although the 2.26 offers best bang-per-buck with the i7's, I suspect that the xeons will be the same.

I just got an email from BOXX with their new nahelem workstations and I was surprised at how expensive they are, especially after seeing the Lenovo ones and the Mac Pro's. The Boxx's work out approximately double an equivilent Mac (2.26ghz) at over $6k with 12gb RAM and single HD.

Hi Steve,

Actually, looking at comparably equipped systems, each with dual 2.26Ghz Xeons, 12GB ram and low-end graphics cards, the BOXX is only about $400 more than the Mac.

And ours comes with Windows (and is supported under Windows).

;)

Cheers,

Adam

motoxpress
03-30-2009, 09:20 PM
Not much info on the Tyan MB right now. The PCI slots are pretty dismal from the product shots.

-gl

mortenolesen
03-30-2009, 10:49 PM
In theory, couldn't you just the mac pro with dual nahelems and just run windows on it? Would there be any difference compared to buying the more expensive similar PC?

Vilandra
03-31-2009, 01:24 AM
I too checked out the new Boxx 8500, and when compared to the same spec'd MAC Pro, the Boxx is only a few hundred more, and im guessing its because of the quadro card which I believe is more than what was priced with the MAC.

Im sure over time, the price of those Nehalems will come down. Then again the Qx9775's I have are still $1500. :surprised

luxwork
03-31-2009, 02:05 AM
this one looks promising from supermicro
it's cheap, and ATX form factor
http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/Product/Supermicro/MBD-X8DAL-i-O
and one of the permutations of this board has 8x SAS
I am curious how the 2.0 Ghz chips will perform vs a single proc 2.66
I am normally not a fan of overclocking, but I wonder if a dual cpu system will overclock. As a rendermachine, it may be worth it
MD

anevsky
03-31-2009, 02:17 AM
I just got an email from BOXX with their new nahelem workstations and I was surprised at how expensive they are,

I wasn't.

and Adam, comparing your brand against what are rediculously overpriced machines from Apple and saying its only a few hundred more..... and runs windows natively - wow, I got to get me one of those windows capable machines..... hehe

dmeyer
03-31-2009, 02:57 AM
Hi Steve,

Actually, looking at comparably equipped systems, each with dual 2.26Ghz Xeons, 12GB ram and low-end graphics cards, the BOXX is only about $400 more than the Mac.

And ours comes with Windows (and is supported under Windows).

;)

Cheers,

Adam


You could also look at the 2.93s where the difference is nearly $1200... :eek:

I think the point is that Nehalem across the board is a more expensive platform. Dell just announced their T7500 series but I haven't seen any pricing yet. If history is any guide it'll come in even higher.

aglick
03-31-2009, 03:09 AM
You could also look at the 2.93s where the difference is nearly $1200... :eek:

I think the point is that Nehalem across the board is a more expensive platform. Dell just announced their T7500 series but I haven't seen any pricing yet. If history is any guide it'll come in even higher.


Again - actually only about $400 difference in price between the two manufacturers when configured using the 2.93Ghz procs, entry level graphics & 12GB ram. (and actually, the difference is only $200 if you count the copy of Windows you would still need to buy for the MAC)



I think that once everybody sees the pricing from HP, Dell, etc, this discussion will have more context.

A new generation of intel CPUs does not change the business models, value propositions or pricing structures of ANY of these companies or products in ANY meaningful way.

To expect something different in these regards is expecting a lot.

dmeyer
03-31-2009, 03:26 AM
Again - actually only about $400 difference in price between the two manufacturers when configured using the 2.93Ghz procs, entry level graphics & 12GB ram. (and actually, the difference is only $200 if you count the copy of Windows you would still need to buy for the MAC)


I'm still getting around $1k with the online cofigurators after throwing Vista cost into the mix. I opted for the Quadro FX1700 as its the most comparable to the GT120 until you begin offering the 580. :shrug: Looking forward to the sure to come 8550s...

Teirz
03-31-2009, 03:48 AM
this one looks promising from supermicro
it's cheap, and ATX form factor
http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/Product/Supermicro/MBD-X8DAL-i-O
and one of the permutations of this board has 8x SAS
I am curious how the 2.0 Ghz chips will perform vs a single proc 2.66
I am normally not a fan of overclocking, but I wonder if a dual cpu system will overclock. As a rendermachine, it may be worth it
MD

Yup I would be curious to know how well does the dual E5520 performs vs a single Core i7 2.66, especially at the rendering power.

biliousfrog
03-31-2009, 08:52 AM
Hi Steve,

Actually, looking at comparably equipped systems, each with dual 2.26Ghz Xeons, 12GB ram and low-end graphics cards, the BOXX is only about $400 more than the Mac.

And ours comes with Windows (and is supported under Windows).

;)

Cheers,

Adam

No matter what I try I don't get anywhere near that...The closest I managed was around £1000 more than the Mac (using XE to convert the Boxx price)...and the Mac's are more expensive in the UK.

Timmay
03-31-2009, 02:45 PM
So what is the high end AMD chip?

Either current or soon to be released?

olson
03-31-2009, 04:29 PM
So what is the high end AMD chip?

Either current or soon to be released?

For dual socket workstation its the Opteron 2386 SE which is a 45nm quad core running at 2.8 GHz. There's also the Opteron 8386 SE which can be used in systems with 4 or 8 sockets for a total of 16 or 32 cores at 2.8 GHz.

Soon to be released is their "Istanbul" processor which is an Opteron with 6 cores and is a drop in upgrade for the existing Socket F (1207) motherboards. Later this year is a new platform for servers and workstations with DDR3 memory. Cheers!

Benr
03-31-2009, 09:03 PM
this one looks promising from supermicro
it's cheap, and ATX form factor
http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/Product/Supermicro/MBD-X8DAL-i-O
and one of the permutations of this board has 8x SAS
I am curious how the 2.0 Ghz chips will perform vs a single proc 2.66
I am normally not a fan of overclocking, but I wonder if a dual cpu system will overclock. As a rendermachine, it may be worth it
MD

I think most dual cpu motherboards have very limited if any overclocking capability. It probably varies though, and Skulltrail was an exception.

Timmay
04-01-2009, 12:58 AM
Do you need to use ECC memory with these Xeons?

Or can you just use desktop ddr3?

I can't seem to find any ddr3 ecc 1333 RAM.....

motoxpress
04-01-2009, 02:18 AM
So, Apple is once again the lowprice leader ;)

-gl

Timmay
04-01-2009, 02:23 AM
Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Server Processor Model

$379.99 x2 $759.98
.

.
Crucial 3GB (3 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) ECC Unbuffered Triple Channel Kit Server Memory Model CT3KIT12872BA1339

$72.99 x4 $291.96
.
.
COOLER MASTER COSMOS S RC-1100-KKN1-GP Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case

$199.99 $199.99
.
ASUS Z8NR-D12(ASMB4-IKVM) Dual LGA 1366 Extended ATX Server Motherboard

$479.99 -$20.00 Instant $459.99
.
.
Vigor Monsoon III LT Dual 120mm Fan CPU Cooler Socket 1366 Ready

$66.99x2 -$5.00 Instant $123.98
.

SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

$199.99 -$10.00 Instant $189.99
.
.
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (bare drive)

$179.99 $179.99
.
.
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

$69.99 x2 $139.98


Subtotal: $2,345.86


Doesn't include a power supply which I already have.
Not sure about the mobo (no reviews).
Not sure if my cooling is suffiecient.
Also, can't find any other RAM, so there could be better.

FAR cheaper than a Mac, even though the GPU is for gaming.

motoxpress
04-01-2009, 02:37 AM
Not talking about a screw together box. I am talking about pre-built workstations. Even so, I am glad you put the list together. I was about to do it myself.

-gl

smoluck
04-01-2009, 08:58 AM
Tyan have launch his own Motherboard now.

http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=632

http://www.tyan.com/images/systemboards/s7002.gif

zenerry
04-01-2009, 02:40 PM
I've just created a thread asking if this MB cansupport i7 920 processor.!!

It would be great, wouldn't it??¿!

vlad
04-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Not talking about a screw together box. I am talking about pre-built workstations. Even so, I am glad you put the list together. I was about to do it myself.

-gl

Well how do you think Apple build their computers? They screw the damn components together, which makes them screw-together boxes. Buy workstation components, set them up in a case, install OS : you've got a pre-built (by you) workstation. ;)

Did a little shopping for the PC equivalent of the dual 2.66 MacPro which is listed at $3300

At Newegg :

- Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core : $760 (2 x $380)
- TYAN S7010AGM2NRF Dual LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SSI EEB Server Motherboard : $390
- Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) ECC Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Model : $135 (3 x $45)
- CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply : $110
- MSI N95GT-MD512-OC GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 (which is the equivalent of the OEM GT120 of the Mac) : $65
- COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Black/ Silver Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case : $190
- Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive : $80
- Logitech LX 710 Laser Black USB Cordless Standard Desktop : $65
- Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DVR-116DBK : $25

Total : $1820
That's almost a $1500 differential, with which you could build a barebone dual quad renderslave.

olson
04-01-2009, 05:00 PM
I've just created a thread asking if this MB cansupport i7 920 processor.!!

It would be great, wouldn't it??¿!

Core i7 products are lacking the necessary QPI links to the other processor socket (since memory controllers are built into the processor like Opteron), only Xeon processors will work in that motherboard. Cheers!

dmeyer
04-02-2009, 02:18 AM
Well how do you think Apple build their computers? They screw the damn components together, which makes them screw-together boxes. Buy workstation components, set them up in a case, install OS : you've got a pre-built (by you) workstation. ;)

Did a little shopping for the PC equivalent of the dual 2.66 MacPro which is listed at $3300

At Newegg :

- Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core : $760 (2 x $380)
- TYAN S7010AGM2NRF Dual LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SSI EEB Server Motherboard : $390
- Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) ECC Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Model : $135 (3 x $45)
- CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply : $110
- MSI N95GT-MD512-OC GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 (which is the equivalent of the OEM GT120 of the Mac) : $65
- COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1-GP Black/ Silver Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case : $190
- Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive : $80
- Logitech LX 710 Laser Black USB Cordless Standard Desktop : $65
- Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DVR-116DBK : $25

Total : $1820
That's almost a $1500 differential, with which you could build a barebone dual quad renderslave.

Don't forget the OS plus whatever your time is worth.

vlad
04-02-2009, 02:50 PM
OK, add 200$ for Vista (or just transfer the license from your old computer ;) )
And if your time's worth 400$/hour and more, then buy prebuilt. I personnally found it easier to build my computer up than my daughter's Ikea bunk bed.

mortenolesen
04-02-2009, 08:18 PM
Anandtech has been testing the 5570 render power on 3ds max. Not as convincing as I hoped, but maybe it is just me that misunderstands something.
http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3536&p=11

aglick
04-03-2009, 02:49 AM
Their test uses the default scanlne renderer -hardy a modern rendering engine...

All of our testing shows about a 20% to 30% improvement in mental ray, VRAY rendering (and pretty much every other kind of modern raytrace rendering) between Xeon 54xx and Xeon 55xx (Nehalem) -assuming the same CPU clock frequency and system RAM.

Anandtech are very good at what they do - but thier understanding of benchmarking and analysis of 3D pro rendering performance leaves alot to be desired...

But throwing in comparisons to 4-way server systems just confuses the matter. Everybody should be aware that these type of systems provide horrible price-performance efficiency for 3D rendering and digital media production workflows...

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