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Zarathustra
07-09-2003, 04:46 PM
I tried selling DFX+ on Ebay and the best offer was $200 - a far cry from what it's supposed to cost.
Perhaps I'll try again without a reserve price and whatever it goes for, it goes for.

I guess it's a great program if it's free, but nobody wants to actually pay for it. Maybe that's why it was given away in the first place.

Oh well, now I'm anxiously awaiting LW8...

Shade01
07-09-2003, 05:03 PM
Could be bad timing too. After Effects 6 was just released and costs less than what DFX is supposed to retail for. It also only does 8 bit color channels. There's probably going to be a bunch of new stuff coming out around siggraph too. I'm sure it's a good program in it's own right, but in the greater scheme of things, it will probably be outdated quickly.

Zarathustra
07-09-2003, 05:13 PM
WOW, I've had my head too deep in a current project. I had no idea AFX6 was coming out. Thanks, Shade01.

I agree with you about DFX+. There was so much Rah-Rahing about it last month I thought I'd present a bit of reality.

Well, if I try again and get $200, that's $200 back from the $500 for the LW8 upgrade - gotta look on the bright side :) .

Shade01
07-09-2003, 05:25 PM
It's also $200 off AFX 6 :)

jrsunshine
07-09-2003, 06:27 PM
Could it be that a lot of us got the LW 8 upgrade to get DFX+ for such a great price. That could have a lot to do with no takers..... the takers already got their copy. I'm not sure why you want to part with it so quickly... its an outstanding tool. I have already used it on a project with great success.

Roy

roguenroll
07-09-2003, 06:33 PM
well at least it looks like 6 has PSD layers.

Zarathustra
07-09-2003, 06:46 PM
Well, I doubt if I would have wanted it anyway, but as a Mac user it's not even an option for me.

I guess $200 should just be good enough...

takkun
07-09-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Shade01
Could be bad timing too. After Effects 6 was just released and costs less than what DFX is supposed to retail for. It also only does 8 bit color channels. Hmm, actually I think I read that it can handle 16 bit color channels now.

Petrik
07-09-2003, 08:57 PM
Hey there's no problem giving it away... send it to me. I just got an academic version of Lightwave because of the deal and didn't realise it was not going to be included with that.

We are using Lightwave at Uni so it made sence to get it rather than one of the other packages which I'd then need to learn all over again. With the deals and the new version comming out it seemed a good thing to do, except us students get left out in the cold with the deal. They'd much rather send it out to people who can't use it anyway.

jrsunshine
07-09-2003, 09:26 PM
I know this is a bit off-topic and I will probably get shouted down, but I am amazed at the snobbery of folks who have been using Adobe products for a long time. They act like the world of effects and graphics revolves around Adobe. I know the Adobe products are good products, but have personally hated their interfaces. I cannot close After Effects fast enough. I guess it is just me because it really seems like Adobe can do no wrong in so many peoles eyes. Well at least until the new Premiere... lol. Please be nice when you reply. :D

Finkster
07-09-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Petrik
Hey there's no problem giving it away... send it to me.

You're a bit of a chancer! Fair play to ye :thumbsup:

Triple G
07-09-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by takkun
Hmm, actually I think I read that it can handle 16 bit color channels now.

I believe he was referring to DFX+ with the 8-bit comment. I know After Effects 5.5 supports 16-bit color channels, and I believe 5.0 did as well.

devin
07-09-2003, 10:42 PM
The 3D industry is a pretty small industry / market in the scheme of things and I doubt that many ppl would think to just run a search for a specialized product such as DFX+ on eBay. By that I mean that DFX isn't one of the major companies (i.e. adobe or discreet).

I really wouldn't expect to find anything more than AE or combustion out there from the start. I don't think the lack of bids has anything to do w/ the quality of the product.

Have you advertised your offer on all the major boards/lists?

Zarathustra
07-09-2003, 11:12 PM
I posted on a few boards but I don't know what "the major boards" are.

jrsunshine: Yes, you're OT. I personally like AFX's interface because it doesn't try to be pretty - it gives you what you need and that's it. Much like Lightwave does. It's up to you to create something worth looking at.
Adobe snobbery has been well-supported for years. Photoshop is still king. After Effects ruled the roost for a long time and still has a major following. Illustrator is a decent app, too. As for the rest of them (especially Premier) they can go to hell.
Bottomline, you use what you like and what gets the job done. For me, DFX+ isn't it. Maybe for you it is.

Well, you can go bid if you want. I started it off at $150, no reserve.
Ebay bid (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3617383094)

dmeyer
07-09-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Triple G
I believe he was referring to DFX+ with the 8-bit comment. I know After Effects 5.5 supports 16-bit color channels, and I believe 5.0 did as well.

Only in the Production Bundle.

d4rk
07-09-2003, 11:41 PM
hmm... that is a tempting offer.

I wanted the bundle, but I can't afford the $1595 price tag and was going to get the EDU version of lightwave in the fall when I start school.. so I would miss out on that deal. I just might end up bidding on your auction... ;)

rickycox
07-10-2003, 12:23 AM
$200 bucks off the cost of lightwave, that's got to be better than a kick in the teeth. :)

Zarathustra
07-10-2003, 12:31 AM
uh...yeah. That's true, Riki.

jrsunshine
07-10-2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
jrsunshine: Yes, you're OT.


Thanks for being nice. I hope you are able to unload that copy of DFX+. An amen from the congregation on Premiere.

Roy

Vodoo_Child
07-10-2003, 04:52 AM
I am in the process of swapping out my dongle for a new one. I got DFX+ as part of the upgrade package. If you have not tried this yet, prepare to be shocked. The more I deal with companies like these the more I like dealing with the folks @ newtek. The swap from par port to USB is $99. They have to have the old dongle in hand before they will ship the new one. Now I don't know about everyone else, but that seems a little customer unfriendly. You know they plan to re-use the dongle, and I find it hard to beleive a USB is $99 dollars more. Did I mention they want to tack shipping and handling charges on to the $99. I had similarly unpleasant dealings with customer service when I was trying to upgrade my copies that came bundled with our companies DPS products. I don't think the product is the problem. It real is very good at what it does and the trianing DVD they sent was good. The videotape with version 3 was good too. The big turn off in my mind is thier customer support. Just my 2 pennies worth...

geoff3dnz
07-10-2003, 05:15 AM
FWIW, I would have to pay Newtek's official Austalasian distributor about NZ$250.00 to swap my parallel dongle for a USB one.

;)

faulknermano
07-10-2003, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
I posted on a few boards but I don't know what "the major boards" are.

jrsunshine: Yes, you're OT. I personally like AFX's interface because it doesn't try to be pretty

i personally hate the afx interface, especially the timeline.

illustrator and photoshop, otoh, are probably one of the better adobe products that i've used.

Thalaxis
07-10-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Vodoo_Child
If you have not tried this yet, prepare to be shocked. The more I deal with companies like these the more I like dealing with the folks @ newtek. The swap from par port to USB is $99.

I'm not too pleased about it myself. I think that if I had paid full-price I'd be ripping Eyeon a new one.

The worst part is that it took their customer service chick over a week to get back to me.

Zarathustra
07-10-2003, 07:53 PM
I did some digging and I thought NOW would be an appropriate time to remind everyone of Chuck Baker's words (June 4th):

"...we have arranged to offer you DFX+ and two modules, a $1785US value, for just $495US, and the [8] upgrade, a $495US value, free. Total value of free software, however you look at it: $1785US...If you don't want DFX+ and the two modules, no doubt you can recover more than the cost of the upgrade by reselling them to someone who does want them."

I knew I should have challenged Chuck that very day. I held back because of all the confontational postings at the time, but that was one I DEFINITELY should have engaged him on. $1785! HA!!!
If he can sell my copy for "more then the cost of the upgrade" I'll split the $ with him. Damn BS Rah-Rah crap. Grrrrr:annoyed:

Psyhke
07-10-2003, 08:39 PM
Umm, it was just a deal that NewTek offered. You and I and many others took it. How can you be angry now and turn it around like you were cheated out of your money or something? It doesn't make much sense to me. You'll give yourself high-blood pressure if you dig for ways to get angry about stuff. :eek:

Triple G
07-10-2003, 08:43 PM
That does kinda suck, Zarathustra. That's exactly what I was afraid of if I had taken advantage of the deal. Makes me kinda glad that I didn't, (since I have no use for DFX+ either). It sucks that you would expect to get one price for it, and in reality it looks like you'll be getting far less. Still, if you look at it as getting the LW8 upgrade for only $295, it doesn't look like such a bad deal. :shrug:

Zarathustra
07-10-2003, 09:17 PM
I definitely don't feel cheated. I had every intention of upgrading to 8, so the $500 was set aside right from the start.

Aside from trying to sell this damn thing, I want to shine the light on the underbelly of this "fabulous deal" and all that nonsense talk. Certain people have a carte blanche and say anything without challenge. I'm just showing a real world situation instead of Rah-Rah fantasy.

As was said before, ANY $$$ I make off the sale of DFX+ is gravy and is essentially a gift from NT. It's "better then a kick in the teeth" as I believe it was put earlier by Riki.

I'm just annoyed I had to wait a month to call Chuck on his statements.
:hmm:

Nemoid
07-10-2003, 10:00 PM
i think that was a good deal for those who appreciated DFX+, but why taking such a deal considering we have to wait 4 long till Lw [8] comes?
there will surely be a good offer at the end of the year when Lw will be put out, i think.and also then we'll know more about it.

MadMax
07-10-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Vodoo_Child
I am in the process of swapping out my dongle for a new one. I got DFX+ as part of the upgrade package. If you have not tried this yet, prepare to be shocked. The more I deal with companies like these the more I like dealing with the folks @ newtek.

Eyeon tech support is no different than anyone elses. And is just as easy to deal with as Newtek.

The swap from par port to USB is $99. They have to have the old dongle in hand before they will ship the new one. Now I don't know about everyone else, but that seems a little customer unfriendly.[/B]

How is this customer unfriendly? Newtek does the EXACT SAME THING. I just swapped 3 dongles. Newtek had to have them before sending me USB dongles.

I find it hard to beleive a USB is $99 dollars more. Did I mention they want to tack shipping and handling charges on to the $99. [/B]

AS does everyone else. Shipping and handling isn't free.

Newtek charges 29.95 for a dongle exchange.

Their upgrade is 495.00, and if you want to get a manual with it, it costs you 99.00 more.

Alternatively, Eyeon charges 99.00 for the dongle, 29.95 for a manual.

The big turn off in my mind is thier customer support. Just my 2 pennies worth... [/B]

A friend of mine sent in a dongle to Newtek for replacement and he was down for over 4 months. He only got his replacement after he threatened to sue them.

So should I rip on Newtek then?

takkun
07-11-2003, 12:06 AM
Maybe you're just not reaching your target market. Just an idea, have you tried advertising in Digital Fusion and Compositing and VFX forums? I can think of at least four or five popular ones. Just post a link to your eBay auction. I'm sure the people in those forums know what DFX+ is capable of and would probably be more interested then your regular auction patrons.

jrsunshine
07-11-2003, 12:09 AM
Geeeez guys. Stop the crying. I'm getting depressed.

Go to A/W, Discreet, or whoever and cry. I'm sure Discreet will give you a gret deal on MAX and throw in Combustion to boot.
Roy:rolleyes:

NewTek, for whatever motives you desire to associate, seems to try to add value to your purchase. In my opinion, they did it here. If you want to get LW 8... hey guess what.... you get a great compositing app too. Wooo Hooo. If you could care less about DFX+.... fine.... you get your upgrade and ride into the sunset happy. As for tech support, everyone can have horror stories from even the best tech support departments. Here's a laffer, I felt I had outstanding experiences with the guys over at Hash when I was using Animation Master. Most people would agree the oposite should be true based on the word of mouth rep that Hash has. The point is it has a lot to do with us as the customer too.

That's all,
Roy

takkun
07-11-2003, 12:14 AM
Wait, I got a great idea! Just return it! Get your money back, you can get the Lightwave upgrade later and a better deal might come along. I might return mine also, that new After FX is mighty tempting.

rnb2
07-11-2003, 12:15 AM
I'd have to agree with others that ebay probably isn't the best place to sell DFX+ - it's just too specialized, and the likelihood of 2 people (all that any auction really needs to be successful) looking for it simultaneously on ebay is very, very slim.

Like you, I probably wouldn't know a better place to try to sell it, but if you ask around, cgtalk should provide some good advice. Will you get $500+ for it? Maybe, maybe not.

MadMax
07-11-2003, 12:20 AM
Hell I would have paid the 495.00 to upgrade to lightwave anyway when it came out.

That Newtek and Eyeon threw this deal together, and I get a great compositing app and extra modules for free is pretty slick.

I can't see how anyone could complain about that.

Chuck Baker
07-11-2003, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
I did some digging and I thought NOW would be an appropriate time to remind everyone of Chuck Baker's words (June 4th):

"...we have arranged to offer you DFX+ and two modules, a $1785US value, for just $495US, and the [8] upgrade, a $495US value, free. Total value of free software, however you look at it: $1785US...If you don't want DFX+ and the two modules, no doubt you can recover more than the cost of the upgrade by reselling them to someone who does want them."

I knew I should have challenged Chuck that very day. I held back because of all the confontational postings at the time, but that was one I DEFINITELY should have engaged him on. $1785! HA!!!
If he can sell my copy for "more then the cost of the upgrade" I'll split the $ with him. Damn BS Rah-Rah crap. Grrrrr:annoyed:

Plenty of people disagreed with my assessment right at the time. It wasn't rah-rah crap, just my best guess about the situation, and next time around I will refrain from offering such an opinion. The reason to buy such an offer is if you want what comes with it, for whatever reason, and people can figure that out for themselves, and what options they might want to exercise with their purchases after the fact. I felt some response was needed when some people were being downright nasty when we put a great offer on the table, but next time I'll choose a more appropriate approach to responding.

Chuck Baker
07-11-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
Certain people have a carte blanche and say anything without challenge.

Nobody has carte blanche, and if you think I do, then you need to review the activity on the forum. Everybody gets challenged on pretty much everything.


I'm just annoyed I had to wait a month to call Chuck on his statements.
:hmm:

Well gosh, then next time, don't wait. Nobody else does.

:)

Petrik
07-11-2003, 03:46 AM
Hello anyone listening?? Let's get back to the topic.

The topic of the original post was... "Can barely give away DFX+"

If you recall I said I'd be happy to recieve it as a give away.

What are you waiting for? ;)

Zarathustra
07-11-2003, 06:41 AM
Sorry, I got this crap via email today (well, tonight, or early morning...):


Cool Friends,

This is a quick note to let you know about a money saving limited-time offer for your visual effects tool kit from NewTek, makers of LightWave 3D® .
The LightWave 3D plus DFX bundle gives you a huge collection of tools to add to your visual effects suite. Simply put, dollar for dollar it's the best value in 3D animation -_ and it's the perfect addition to your existing suite of tools -- no matter what applications you currently use for modeling, animation, rendering and compositing, this bundle will help you work faster, smarter, and create beautiful eye-catching work.

Save $1,785 Today!
(HA! Yeah, ok)

Modeling
LightWave® Modeler is known as the industry standard in polygonal modeling, and also includes groundbreaking subdivision surface modeling for creating amazing organic objects. It's a complete and powerful set of tools that is also extensible through LightWaves built in scripting language._ You can also take advantage of the advanced UV Mapping tools and the ability to import and export a number of file formats._ This is the best, most flexible modeler in the business.

Animation
For many jobs, LightWave's straightforward animation toolset is absolutely the quickest way to get results. LightWave is number one 3D program for TV production because its workflow is designed to meet the needs of tight time constraints and budgets. With LightWave, you can push the limits of animation._ It includes built-in expressions, the ability to create your own tools, and nonlinear animation functions._

Rendering
Everyone agrees - LightWave 3D has one of the best-looking, most flexible renderers on the market today. Many Maya and 3D Studio Max users use the LightWave renderer for their final output in order to get the rich and film-like "LightWave look."_ It's also easy to use LightWave to create elements to be composited later._ LightWave gives you easy output for multipass rendering, variable alpha channels, and .PSD files.

Compositing
The LightWave 3D plus DFX bundle also gives you professional compositing, courtesy of eyeon Software's Digital Fusion DFX+._ This node based compositing package is recognized as one of the most powerful in the world, and adds keying, image stabilization, motion tracking, plus support for RLA and RPF format images.

LightWave 3D : Massive Value plus NewTek's Customer Service Values.
When you buy LightWave, you don't buy into extra costs or a service plan. That's just part of NewTek's ongoing commitment to our customers and our products. We don't charge for technical support, because we don't think you should have to pay to figure out how to solve a problem. We don't charge for maintenance upgrades, and LightWave users consistently get dozens of new features at no cost in our maintenance upgrades.

Find out more about LightWave and DFX+

LightWave has the most active online community of any 3D program, dozens of websites devoted to it, and hundreds of free additions and plug-ins created by our user community._

By adding LightWave to your set of tools, you are making a smart investment that will make your work better and pay for itself many times over.

The retail value of the LightWave 3D + DFX bundle is $3,380._ For a limited time, you get all these visual effects tools for one low price of just $1,595:

• LightWave Modeler
• LightWave Animation Toolset
• LightWave Renderer
• eyeon DFX+
• eyeon DFX+ Visual Effects Module
• eyeon DFX+ 3D Module

Make the intelligent choice._ Buy tools you can use.


BLAH BLAH BLAH RAH RAH RAH.
Maya and Max users are using LW to render? I love my LW but that's piling it pretty high.

Why the hell isn't NT hypeing LW8 specifically?! Isn't it supposed to be great? I sure hope it is F'ing phenomenal (I have $500 invested in that bet)!!! What's with the continual pushing of DFX+? Push LW!!! Give some vague clue as to what's gonna be in it and stop wasting space with paragraph after paragraph of what DFX+ is for. Christ! I was fairly calm at the initial posting, but I'm growing annoyed.
No, actually I'm getting worried that apparently the greatest thing about the new LW upgrade is it comes with DFX+! I sure hope that's not true. There's a bunch of things everyone here wants to see in 8, and DFX+ isn't anywhere near the top of the list.

hee hee - I just noticed the F'ing banner at the top as I'm typeing - it's the LW/DFX+ banner. ugh.

isnowboard
07-11-2003, 06:51 AM
Who forced you to upgrade?

Triple G
07-11-2003, 06:53 AM
I got the same email. My question is, why are we just getting this now? Wouldn't it have been smart to send this email out at the beginning of the deal, not after it was originally scheduled to have ended? Ah, well...:shrug:

robinson
07-11-2003, 06:54 AM
Just be patience for another two or three weeks Zarathustra, then we have seen at least a preview and after you heard that Lightwave 8 isn’t supporting the mac anymore you can start flaming.

HAHAHA (you know the bad evil laugh) :twisted:
just kidding…

Good luck on your ebay auction !!!



Btw I hope there is not a thread about, lw 8 isn’t supporting the mac anymore soon, I just couldn't resist…:shame:

Triple G
07-11-2003, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by robinson
JBtw I hope there is not a thread about, lw 8 isn’t supporting the mac anymore soon

Aw, man...bite your tongue! If Newtek ever decides to pull Mac support for Lightwave, well...*shudder*...I don't want to think about it. :cry:

But anyway, as Zarathustra was saying, I kind of understand what he's getting at. It does seem a little weird that there's been far more hoo-ha over DFX+ than any actual features of LW8. I'm sure DFX+ is a great package, but I'm really hoping that it's not a smokescreen to cover up a lackluster LW upgrade. Please prove me wrong, Newtek. :love:

Zarathustra
07-11-2003, 07:04 AM
Who forced you to upgrade?

I'm just one of those real stubborn, loyal dorks I guess. LW is the only real 3D app I've used and I've used it since 5.0. It seemed a knee-jerk reaction. I stubbornly stick with my LW and my Mac and It's anyone's guess how long both loyalties will last :) .

I don't know what's worse, waiting for LW8 or waiting for football season - so much anxiety.....

takkun
07-11-2003, 07:22 AM
Stop being such a whiner, why did you get the deal in the first place?

Return your copy to Newtek and get your money back.

Problem solved. geez.

rickycox
07-11-2003, 07:36 AM
The thing that bugs me is that Newtek get char-grilled at every turn. It's the same old thing every time, people sequeling like stuck pigs no matter what NT does. On this occassion they've given us a sweet deal, people had the freedom to opt in if they wanted or wait if they had reservations.

You know they're never going to release specs on the new product, prior to the launch.

E_Moelzer
07-11-2003, 07:59 AM
Ugh, this really makes me shudder.
I mean, no matter whether you are on the Mac or on the PC, this IS a gerat deal. DF is one of the best compositing- apps out there.
Deals like these dont grow on trees and NT certainly had a hard time getting that deal to work for the PC allone. I perfectly understand that they did not get a deal as great as that for the Mac at the same time.
Why dont you Mac- folks go and blame Apple for not offering NewTek a deal for Shake or FCP like Eyon did with DF?
Ever thought about the possiblity that NT tried to get a good Mac- deal but did not get one? If NT did not have a deal "LW8.0 with FCP" or "LW 8.0 with Shake" it is very likely that this happened because of Apple not being interested in creating such a deal for their "beloved" Mac- users. In another discussion some people meant that FCP was soo great that there was no competition to it on the Mac, not even on PC. So you know, where there is no competition, there is no need for great deals. Sorry Mac- folks, but maybe it is indeed better to have a wider selection of good tools, than just one super, ueber, mega- tool.
My 2 cents...
CU
Elmar

Nemoid
07-11-2003, 08:16 AM
Well, really, Zarathusra, u seem to me too much angry...

first of all, the deal was good for those who liked DFX+ and i think they're many. it was a great offer, because really u got 2 apps at a ridicolous price.

and LW[8] will be a major release.

you had to get informed about DFX+ if u don't liked it, then u had not to buy the deal.

the fact u have difficulties to sell DFX+ is because its not easy to sell so a specific package, and people often prefer to buy it new, from a reseller, wich gives them more guaranties apparently.

the best thing u can do is to learrn DFX+and use it now that u have it.

about Lw[8] how can u talk of it before its released ? after SIGGRAPH, when u will know more about it, then u will have the possibility to complain or enjoy it.
that's why in this transition period, i choosed to wait till Lw[8] is out.

we all desire a great and bright Lw evolution, and i think Nt is working for us. complaining in the manner u do really is unuseful.

powerwave3d
07-11-2003, 09:11 AM
Group Hug
:love:

robinson
07-11-2003, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by powerwave3d
Group Hug


“Egg xactly” !!! :rolleyes:

To help Zarathustra out, he also said this !!!

1. Well, if I try again and get $200, that's $200 back from the $500 for the LW8 upgrade - gotta look on the bright side
2. I guess $200 should just be good enough...
3. I definitely don't feel cheated. I had every intention of upgrading to 8, so the $500 was set aside right from the start.
4. As was said before, ANY $$$ I make off the sale of DFX+ is gravy and is essentially a gift from NT. It's "better then a kick in the teeth" as I believe it was put earlier by Riki.
5. I don't know what's worse, waiting for LW8 or waiting for football season - so much anxiety.....

So stop the whining and get back to work, make something nice… :deal:

Badllarma
07-11-2003, 10:03 AM
Well I've been having a good read of these threads and to be honest overall it seem to be supportive of NT thank god!

Jess guys and girls it's one hell of a deal, to be honest I was going to sell mine then the more I looked at DFX the more I thought I'll give this ago and you know what it's bloody great

I'm definately converted and it's free of course our hard earned money is paying for LW 8 upgrade not DFX! The time to start moaning is if LW 8 sucks AS IF:thumbsup:

So all i want to know now whats the release date in the UK Chuck if you want me to sigh NDA thats fine I just want to know when I should book time off from my full time job to start playing with my new toy:beer:

Bytehawk
07-11-2003, 12:10 PM
Got my DFX package a few days ago.

didn't mean to sell dfx anyway, but hey

this opens up a lot of new possibilities to LW users. It's been a while since I have been as exited about a piece of software as with DFX+

render in passes, adjust diffuse etc.. in post compositing with Zbuffer mmmmm

gotta admit - this was a great deal!

one satisfied customer here :thumbsup:

comanche
07-11-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Bytehawk
....one satisfied customer here :thumbsup:


Me too! Thanks Newtek :applause:

jrsunshine
07-11-2003, 02:11 PM
Is there an echo in here?

:D

lightwolf
07-11-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by MadMax
Eyeon tech support is no different than anyone elses. And is just as easy to deal with as Newtek.
Actually, no it isn't. From my personal experience Eyeon have the absolutely best tech support of any company I've dealt with.
Heck, they even fix you up with patches if you encounter a bug they can fix, and you're on a deadline. Or they at least tell you it's a bug.
I've gotten turn around times from question asked on the ML to the answer posted by a programmer of two hours, and this is from Germany to Canada!

They used to give out great T-shirts: "We suck less!", and they're right :)

Sorry for the rant,
Cheers,
Mike

jrsunshine
07-11-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by lightwolf
Actually, no it isn't. From my personal experience Eyeon have the absolutely best tech support of any company I've dealt with.
Heck, they even fix you up with patches if you encounter a bug they can fix, and you're on a deadline. Or they at least tell you it's a bug.
I've gotten turn around times from question asked on the ML to the answer posted by a programmer of two hours, and this is from Germany to Canada!

They used to give out great T-shirts: "We suck less!", and they're right :)

Sorry for the rant,
Cheers,
Mike

Woooooo Hooooooo !!!!

I like this kind of talk. Thank you NewTek and Eyeon.

Roy

comanche
07-11-2003, 03:30 PM
Is there an echo in here? :D

in here ... in here ... in here? :p

Edit: Excuse me, I don't want to sound like a troll, but the whole discussion (whining and blaming) gets boring. Noone is forced to order free software. I'm quiet happy with the deal. So thanks again to Newtek and Eyeon!

zaam
07-11-2003, 05:27 PM
Just a couple of things in no particular order:

— Thanks for the idea. I wasn't going to take advantage of this deal since I already own DFX with all the modules, but even $100 off the price of my upgrade is gravy. I see no problem here. It's unfair to hold Chuck's feet to the fire on this. The deal is a good value.

— I'm still learning DFX - I've used After Effects since WAY back. Observations — AE is still a great tool, particulatly if you have a lot of time invested and most things are automatic. HOWEVER, if I had to go with one or the other from here on, I would probably lean toward DFX. So far it feels like it's in a different class than the Adobe apps. Unless you can pony up the bucks for SHAKE, DF is probably the best thing out there (if the workflow suits you).

And as for Adobe's much touted common interface, it's becoming more of a mess IMHO with each update. Illustrator 10 is still my vector tool of choice, but the interface is CRAP. I'll spare the details for now, but a company like Adobe should be able to do much better.

— As for eyeon tech support, my experience on 2 occasions with them was outstanding.

jrsunshine
07-11-2003, 06:33 PM
Look at that .... The people are speaking.

Zaam:
I agree with you on the interfaces of Adobe products. They are sooooooooo steeped in legacy to soooooo many users that Adobe is afraid to change.

DFX+ is so natural to the compositing process I find myself wondering how I ever did projects before I had it. LOL.

Roy

MadMax
07-11-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
Sorry, I got this crap via email today (well, tonight, or early morning...):

Save $1,785 Today!
(HA! Yeah, ok)

Hmmm......

Funny, I look at Eyeon's website. Yep, that's what they sell it for.

Lightwave upgrades are 495.00 normally. Check. 2 for 2.

DFX+ is free and a 1795.00 value, check. That's what they sell it for.

So what's the problem? There is no rah rah BS, it states quite simply and directly the facts.


BLAH BLAH BLAH RAH RAH RAH.
Maya and Max users are using LW to render? I love my LW but that's piling it pretty high.

Actually no it isn't piling it high at all. It's obvious you have little first hand knowledge of the real world or more specifically production in a real facility.

The simple fact is that Many effects houses DO render out their Maya scenes in Lightwave. Most professional pipelines use a mix of apps to facilitate the most efficient use of resources they can. Lightwave's renderer is fast and amazingly powerful, and far more cost effective than licensing Renderman or Mental Ray.

I'll be sure to tell my employers what idiots they are for having Maya and Lightwave both, and that Zarathustra himself has stated in no uncertain terms that noone uses Lightwave to render Maya files.

Why the hell isn't NT hypeing LW8 specifically?! Isn't it supposed to be great? I sure hope it is F'ing phenomenal (I have $500 invested in that bet)!!! What's with the continual pushing of DFX+? Push LW!!!

Newtek is announicng LW8 at Siggraph. Since that is a big rade show, and they have built hype for that, it would be pretty stupid for them to do as you suggest and dilute the Siggraph event.

I see that you are a Mac user. That explains the hostility. I couldn't figure why someone was raging so loudly over free software.

You don't want it? I'll buy it off you.

Thalaxis
07-11-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by MadMax
Actually no it isn't piling it high at all. It's obvious you have little first hand knowledge of the real world or more specifically production in a real facility.

Just another example -- there was a bit of discussion on the
HighEnd3D rendering mailing list about a solution that one studio
had. They did their modelling and animation in XSI, and used a
custom script or plugin (I don't remember which, but it was an
in-house dealie) that allowed them to pop the whole thing into
LightWave at the click of a button... so that they could fire it off
on their LightWave renderfarm.

One interesting factoid that came up is that said studio discovered
in their testing that LightWave's radiosity was faster than Mental
Ray's Final Gathering.

Unfortunately, it was over a year ago, so I do not recall much by
way of details.

Nemoid
07-11-2003, 08:11 PM
Lw is strategic in many fields in 3d work, and small companies enjoy to use it for different reasons.

some of them are the following:

1) it has one of the best poligonal and subpatch modeler in the market with a fast workflow. many companies use it in modelling their objects, to refine them or animate them in other apps.
many high end apps have not such a speedy modelling workflow like Lw.

2) traditional 3D animation is easy in Lw, expecially regarding things like flying logos and SFX (wich are great part of 3D jobs company do day by day)

3) the Lw rendering even if not the faster, is one of the more precise and accurate. even some photography expert said to me that it has a really good photo- quality look maybe depending from the quality of its good algorythms.
for a company this quality coupled with great price policy in licences and the possibility of multipass rendering, works great.

this explains also why such a deal was very interesting for a company or solo artists wich use Lw to produce great works.

the fact that Lw can be easily used combined with Maya is also interesting.
companies tend obviously to use the best tools for what they need, so this means Lw and Maya work well together.
:thumbsup:
and i bet also that LW+DFX+ works great..:D

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