AVTPro
03-25-2009, 07:14 AM
Did you guy see this?
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=745182
Gosh.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=745182
Gosh.
View Full Version : Amazing Art: Frontpage
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FelixCat
03-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Really nice work, the attention to detail is great. I would like to see those bugs animated.
Thanks for sharing, Alonzo.
FelixCat
Thanks for sharing, Alonzo.
FelixCat
futagoza
03-25-2009, 06:48 PM
Yes Alonzo, i have seen this, because i surf daily the CGTalk Galleries and other Forums here.
What me always surprises here at CGTalk how those Artist from "3rd 3D World Countries" can afford Max+Vray+ZBrush. Almost all images here are made with this Combo and when i look at the Country they are comming from iīm always (donīt have a word for ;-)).
BTW Does someone know what the prices are for Max+Vray+ZBrush in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, etc. are? Iīm really curious about that.
Regards
Stefan
What me always surprises here at CGTalk how those Artist from "3rd 3D World Countries" can afford Max+Vray+ZBrush. Almost all images here are made with this Combo and when i look at the Country they are comming from iīm always (donīt have a word for ;-)).
BTW Does someone know what the prices are for Max+Vray+ZBrush in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, etc. are? Iīm really curious about that.
Regards
Stefan
Vizfizz
03-25-2009, 06:54 PM
In many of those countries, copyright laws are commonly overlooked. I remember being overseas in Seoul and walking into software "stores" on the street where applications sat on the shelves with their photocopied manuals and they were sold for pennies on the dollar. And yes EI was there back when it sold for $7500.
...on the shelf, cracked, for $12.
The shop owner was proud of his offerings.
...on the shelf, cracked, for $12.
The shop owner was proud of his offerings.
futagoza
03-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Speaking of EI for 12 Dollars. i had also seen a complete "clone" of CGTalk on a chinese web site last year (unfortunately i donīt have the link anymore) with an EIAS forum, but the EI forum was later then removed.
Yes, iīm also aware of copyright issues in those countries, but wondered especially about China, because Autodesk has also a chinese outlet, if i remember correctly. And it would be interesting for me just to know what a license of 3ds Max might cost there. Microsoft did a campaign last year and offered Windows also there for about half the price.
Like i said just courious...
Yes, iīm also aware of copyright issues in those countries, but wondered especially about China, because Autodesk has also a chinese outlet, if i remember correctly. And it would be interesting for me just to know what a license of 3ds Max might cost there. Microsoft did a campaign last year and offered Windows also there for about half the price.
Like i said just courious...
Vizfizz
03-25-2009, 07:19 PM
I'd probably guess that the same application overseas is likely 20% higher.
ediris
03-26-2009, 05:51 AM
You guys dont know what you are talking about, stick to what you know and stop talking non sense.Pls i think i am one of the many people that has to leave from my 3rd world country in order for a better future.
I feel sorry for people that hasnt felt the need to survive in these evil world where people like me and Alonzo fight over a forum showing a white guy with his finger on the trigger and that is not censored, hypocrisy.
Scott is right after all as you can see.
I feel sorry for people that hasnt felt the need to survive in these evil world where people like me and Alonzo fight over a forum showing a white guy with his finger on the trigger and that is not censored, hypocrisy.
Scott is right after all as you can see.
futagoza
03-26-2009, 07:23 AM
You donīt get the idea, Edgard, or?
I was wondering how people can afford those softwares in those countries and what the prices are. What i meant with 3rd *3D* World Countries, simply watch their TV Stations (via the net) and look at their CG made ads/flying logos etc. which mostly look like if they are made in the 80īs. Another point you might not get is the following: Letīs assume those are mostly "cheap soft" users and are tolerated by CGTalk. Why should new users to 3D visiting this board here buying Software like for example a much cheaper product like EIAS (800 USD) compared to Max+Vray+ZBrush (several thousand USD) when they can post here the work made with "cheap soft" ?! Another point you might also not get, is outsourcing. You have seen those ads here from China too, i assume.
So simply donīt vent and give better an answer to my question. On the other side feel free, if you are offended and report to CGTlak Staff. I have no problem with this.
Regards
Stefan
I was wondering how people can afford those softwares in those countries and what the prices are. What i meant with 3rd *3D* World Countries, simply watch their TV Stations (via the net) and look at their CG made ads/flying logos etc. which mostly look like if they are made in the 80īs. Another point you might not get is the following: Letīs assume those are mostly "cheap soft" users and are tolerated by CGTalk. Why should new users to 3D visiting this board here buying Software like for example a much cheaper product like EIAS (800 USD) compared to Max+Vray+ZBrush (several thousand USD) when they can post here the work made with "cheap soft" ?! Another point you might also not get, is outsourcing. You have seen those ads here from China too, i assume.
So simply donīt vent and give better an answer to my question. On the other side feel free, if you are offended and report to CGTlak Staff. I have no problem with this.
Regards
Stefan
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 07:29 AM
Yes Alonzo, i have seen this, because i surf daily the CGTalk Galleries and other Forums here.
What me always surprises here at CGTalk how those Artist from "3rd 3D World Countries" can afford Max+Vray+ZBrush. Almost all images here are made with this Combo and when i look at the Country they are comming from iīm always (donīt have a word for ;-)).
BTW Does someone know what the prices are for Max+Vray+ZBrush in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, etc. are? Iīm really curious about that.
Regards
Stefan
Stefan that's another "touchy" but "practical" issue. I imagine there are a number of artist that own ALL their software, but they are dwarf by the number artist driving the industry that don't.
Vray is free I thought?
What me always surprises here at CGTalk how those Artist from "3rd 3D World Countries" can afford Max+Vray+ZBrush. Almost all images here are made with this Combo and when i look at the Country they are comming from iīm always (donīt have a word for ;-)).
BTW Does someone know what the prices are for Max+Vray+ZBrush in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, etc. are? Iīm really curious about that.
Regards
Stefan
Stefan that's another "touchy" but "practical" issue. I imagine there are a number of artist that own ALL their software, but they are dwarf by the number artist driving the industry that don't.
Vray is free I thought?
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 07:37 AM
In many of those countries, copyright laws are commonly overlooked. I remember being overseas in Seoul and walking into software "stores" on the street where applications sat on the shelves with their photocopied manuals and they were sold for pennies on the dollar. And yes EI was there back when it sold for $7500.
...on the shelf, cracked, for $12.
The shop owner was proud of his offerings.
That's the reality. I would think it's a bit late to even complain about it now that Lucas, EA and others have production companies in those same countries.
As much as I don't like it, it's a dog eat dog world. Sit on your laurel and get run over or run out of business. To me, it boils down to a personal principles and nothing else. Simply put, I buy software whenever I can afford it but unless I know how to use it, I doubt if I could ever buy it. It's a catch 22.
Recently I bought Zbrush 3 for about $600. I doubt if I will use it as much as when I couldn't afford Zb2.
:shrug:
...on the shelf, cracked, for $12.
The shop owner was proud of his offerings.
That's the reality. I would think it's a bit late to even complain about it now that Lucas, EA and others have production companies in those same countries.
As much as I don't like it, it's a dog eat dog world. Sit on your laurel and get run over or run out of business. To me, it boils down to a personal principles and nothing else. Simply put, I buy software whenever I can afford it but unless I know how to use it, I doubt if I could ever buy it. It's a catch 22.
Recently I bought Zbrush 3 for about $600. I doubt if I will use it as much as when I couldn't afford Zb2.
:shrug:
futagoza
03-26-2009, 07:46 AM
Vray is free I thought?
Wish it was ;-) No, actually itīs a commercial product. I think itīs around 800 USD.
Regards
Stefan
Wish it was ;-) No, actually itīs a commercial product. I think itīs around 800 USD.
Regards
Stefan
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 08:17 AM
You guys dont know what you are talking about, stick to what you know and stop talking non sense.Pls i think i am one of the many people that has to leave from my 3rd world country in order for a better future.
I feel sorry for people that hasnt felt the need to survive in these evil world where people like me and Alonzo fight over a forum showing a white guy with his finger on the trigger and that is not censored, hypocrisy.
Scott is right after all as you can see.
Edgard. You are bothered by that pic. I will take it down. Very sorry it offended you, I was only trying to be humorous with a snappy comeback. there was a LOL after the word. I'm sorry, I don't try to be mean. Maybe we can both try to word or posts so they don't come off as abrasive?
And honestly, I don't have ANY dispute with you. I never have as far as I am concerned or I'm just naive. I have no animosity towards you.
All I know is I was trying to spread a few words of wisdom and it somehow got twisted around into some riff that I don't have with you. I try hard to be nice to everyone and I have no reason not to be kind to you whatsoever. Anyone accusing me of having a "fight" with you to me is just instigation. If it's Ok with you, I will keep trying to be friends. I will start by taking down the offensive photo and Maybe we can completely squash the drama. To me it's not good and only would make me look bad or unprofessional.
That's just my honest feeling. I will look for the post now.
Heck we can disagree and even quibble a little but not hateful my friend. I really only like to talk about fun stuff.
Even if you are a C4D user :) (that was a bad joke?).
I feel sorry for people that hasnt felt the need to survive in these evil world where people like me and Alonzo fight over a forum showing a white guy with his finger on the trigger and that is not censored, hypocrisy.
Scott is right after all as you can see.
Edgard. You are bothered by that pic. I will take it down. Very sorry it offended you, I was only trying to be humorous with a snappy comeback. there was a LOL after the word. I'm sorry, I don't try to be mean. Maybe we can both try to word or posts so they don't come off as abrasive?
And honestly, I don't have ANY dispute with you. I never have as far as I am concerned or I'm just naive. I have no animosity towards you.
All I know is I was trying to spread a few words of wisdom and it somehow got twisted around into some riff that I don't have with you. I try hard to be nice to everyone and I have no reason not to be kind to you whatsoever. Anyone accusing me of having a "fight" with you to me is just instigation. If it's Ok with you, I will keep trying to be friends. I will start by taking down the offensive photo and Maybe we can completely squash the drama. To me it's not good and only would make me look bad or unprofessional.
That's just my honest feeling. I will look for the post now.
Heck we can disagree and even quibble a little but not hateful my friend. I really only like to talk about fun stuff.
Even if you are a C4D user :) (that was a bad joke?).
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 08:31 AM
OK. I took it down. Now that I think of it, we may have had a dispute about EI vs C4D but I never realized it was an argument. I thought it was just techno-babble. I use to be naive like that. The thread got closed and I was even got mad at the moderators when all they were doing was ending a useless "word match". Conversation like that don't make a lot of sense because most people have been using software they love for 15 years. They would just go on and on disagreeing for 15 more years. I've learned to avoid them but sometimes I accidently fall into one or one falls on me. Honestly, I don't have time for lengthy debates. It will hurt me and my client. Maybe one or two post and silence.
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 08:36 AM
Wish it was ;-) No, actually itīs a commercial product. I think itīs around 800 USD.
Regards
Stefan
Actually I don't render much.
I think the biggest problem is big companies that make huge budgets and don't buy software.
I buy hardware and software whenever I can so I can get bigger budgets.
Regards
Stefan
Actually I don't render much.
I think the biggest problem is big companies that make huge budgets and don't buy software.
I buy hardware and software whenever I can so I can get bigger budgets.
ediris
03-26-2009, 09:03 AM
Stefan let me tell you , in Venezuela(South America) we get paid very well for an a flying logo. Enough to save for a license of any software.
But take in consideration that most of peoples work here is not them alone as a freelance artist but as a whole or as part of a company.
I for one work in a company which can afford any toy or tool, now with the global crisis tell me who can afford to get a new MacPro.
Well probably these EUropean guys like your self who think that the world revolves around them might be able to get one of those toys. But i know i dont need one that is why i choose EIAS because is affordable solution but until when?
Until you start getting plug ins here and there and spending time learning the software you just loose more money.
Maybe there are many artist like Scott or ALonzo that has gone to a level of work that is correct but you have to run the mile.
China, the rendering farms are in China and if you want to render them out you have to have the original license,piracy of software ? most of people have there pirate copy of a lot of software sleeping in a HD. The companies i have worked for they have the tools i just dont see the need to point fingers to 3d world countries in whatever terms you mentioned and with all the respect of the world that you might have.Sorry but that is the reality that most people like yourself has never experienced. That is why i said to talk what you know about and limit your self to that alone.
If i dont know something i will ask, i have being everywhere besides Africa and Australian continent my english havent stopped me form getting jobs around the world. So i might have not knowledge of english but i can say i have lived plenty.
But take in consideration that most of peoples work here is not them alone as a freelance artist but as a whole or as part of a company.
I for one work in a company which can afford any toy or tool, now with the global crisis tell me who can afford to get a new MacPro.
Well probably these EUropean guys like your self who think that the world revolves around them might be able to get one of those toys. But i know i dont need one that is why i choose EIAS because is affordable solution but until when?
Until you start getting plug ins here and there and spending time learning the software you just loose more money.
Maybe there are many artist like Scott or ALonzo that has gone to a level of work that is correct but you have to run the mile.
China, the rendering farms are in China and if you want to render them out you have to have the original license,piracy of software ? most of people have there pirate copy of a lot of software sleeping in a HD. The companies i have worked for they have the tools i just dont see the need to point fingers to 3d world countries in whatever terms you mentioned and with all the respect of the world that you might have.Sorry but that is the reality that most people like yourself has never experienced. That is why i said to talk what you know about and limit your self to that alone.
If i dont know something i will ask, i have being everywhere besides Africa and Australian continent my english havent stopped me form getting jobs around the world. So i might have not knowledge of english but i can say i have lived plenty.
ediris
03-26-2009, 09:12 AM
Alonzo i dont see the need for that pic, thanks for the reply man i think in the way i write my post sometimes i try to think over and over again before i hit SUBMIT REPLY.
I hope EIAS gets mdd files support and Paralumino products gets included into ANimator, but i guess is us who gets the worst part out of it.
I try to get tools like C4D compared to EIAS because i think they have a smart product as you are doing with Zbrush and Maya that is all.
Alonzo i own EIAS, i have EIM i am upgrading to EIv8 and getting Tesla at the same time. I dont own C4D i just learn it by watching tutorials and working at the same time in the office.
I stopped upgrading my coy of AE when the software started to get buggy. But that doesnt mean i stop using it. i am lucky enough to learned evrything by my self.
I did help Scott to get a model, i lived in the beach with my sleeping bag and my laptop, crazy yes but that is the life i have now . Lucky for me i dont have to go back to that anymore but i dont mind going back to that way of living, so you see a lot of stories behind a particular character.
I hope EIAS gets mdd files support and Paralumino products gets included into ANimator, but i guess is us who gets the worst part out of it.
I try to get tools like C4D compared to EIAS because i think they have a smart product as you are doing with Zbrush and Maya that is all.
Alonzo i own EIAS, i have EIM i am upgrading to EIv8 and getting Tesla at the same time. I dont own C4D i just learn it by watching tutorials and working at the same time in the office.
I stopped upgrading my coy of AE when the software started to get buggy. But that doesnt mean i stop using it. i am lucky enough to learned evrything by my self.
I did help Scott to get a model, i lived in the beach with my sleeping bag and my laptop, crazy yes but that is the life i have now . Lucky for me i dont have to go back to that anymore but i dont mind going back to that way of living, so you see a lot of stories behind a particular character.
AzOne
03-26-2009, 09:18 AM
Hi Stefan,
I'm from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. So I'll relate some personal experience :)
Most of the 3D/ Motion graphics/ post-production professionals I know use fully paid versions of the software we use to earn our living (e.g. Maya, Final Cut Studio , Adobe Suite, Lightwave etc.) . Some pros are able to afford them because the company that they work for foots the bill. Freelancers like me have to bite the bullet and pay from our pockets. Usually we are able to make up the cost after several paying projects.
The cost of most of these apps are higher here than in the US. However, the Internet has been a blessing with the ability to buy direct from the software vendor. Most of my current toolset I bought on-line.
I bought EI at v. 2.7.5 when it was really expensive (along with a Mac Quadra 840av, lots of RAM, some extra storage and Form Z). But I was able to get some architectural visualisation projects to pay for it all within a reasonable timeframe.
There are many schools and universities here teaching multimedia and creative content development. Many students have access to high end software through these schools.
Cracked apps can be found, of course. Some folks starting out in the business here do use some "cheap" software, but I find that they usually purchase original copies within a year or two of surviving in the business.
There are government and private TV stations in Malaysia. The quality of the CG they air depends on a lot of factors. Some in house graphics look poor because, although the station might have a high end 3D app (e.g. Maya), the in-house staff are not properly trained, or not motivated enough to learn to utilise the app for best results.
I'm from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. So I'll relate some personal experience :)
Most of the 3D/ Motion graphics/ post-production professionals I know use fully paid versions of the software we use to earn our living (e.g. Maya, Final Cut Studio , Adobe Suite, Lightwave etc.) . Some pros are able to afford them because the company that they work for foots the bill. Freelancers like me have to bite the bullet and pay from our pockets. Usually we are able to make up the cost after several paying projects.
The cost of most of these apps are higher here than in the US. However, the Internet has been a blessing with the ability to buy direct from the software vendor. Most of my current toolset I bought on-line.
I bought EI at v. 2.7.5 when it was really expensive (along with a Mac Quadra 840av, lots of RAM, some extra storage and Form Z). But I was able to get some architectural visualisation projects to pay for it all within a reasonable timeframe.
There are many schools and universities here teaching multimedia and creative content development. Many students have access to high end software through these schools.
Cracked apps can be found, of course. Some folks starting out in the business here do use some "cheap" software, but I find that they usually purchase original copies within a year or two of surviving in the business.
There are government and private TV stations in Malaysia. The quality of the CG they air depends on a lot of factors. Some in house graphics look poor because, although the station might have a high end 3D app (e.g. Maya), the in-house staff are not properly trained, or not motivated enough to learn to utilise the app for best results.
ediris
03-26-2009, 09:34 AM
I think Stefan doenst know about Lucas Film SIngapore or studio like http://www.frameworks.com.sg/ and the whole studios in China Town Singapore.
I do work in a creative shop and there are some talented people here, here they live to work.
I do work in a creative shop and there are some talented people here, here they live to work.
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 09:41 AM
Ediris,
that does so very exciting and you have a very good. I need to be more mindful of the economic crisis when buying hardware. Maybe I should back up to DVD more, eventhough I'm find it tedious.
Actually, one of my clients sends he work to China. (no not David). That's just the way things seem to be set up now.
I see people here are from all over the world. It makes more sense to me now why our opinions my vary vastly. Our experiences and background are very different.
Anway, I'm not rich at all Ediris. Maybe one day but not today :)
that does so very exciting and you have a very good. I need to be more mindful of the economic crisis when buying hardware. Maybe I should back up to DVD more, eventhough I'm find it tedious.
Actually, one of my clients sends he work to China. (no not David). That's just the way things seem to be set up now.
I see people here are from all over the world. It makes more sense to me now why our opinions my vary vastly. Our experiences and background are very different.
Anway, I'm not rich at all Ediris. Maybe one day but not today :)
ediris
03-26-2009, 09:47 AM
Oh yeah man one day.
Well i am 34 years old no kids, my family lives in the U.S they are from Venezuela , so is pretty hard for everyone to survive. But i still can get software that is my addiction.
But that is about to change in a year or so when i will hopefully have a family to take care of.In the mean time i have to think of my future as a Broadcast Motion Designer and what tools to purchased.
By the way love the front page image
Well nevermind the llink is not working
Is the human character real or not?
Well i am 34 years old no kids, my family lives in the U.S they are from Venezuela , so is pretty hard for everyone to survive. But i still can get software that is my addiction.
But that is about to change in a year or so when i will hopefully have a family to take care of.In the mean time i have to think of my future as a Broadcast Motion Designer and what tools to purchased.
By the way love the front page image
Well nevermind the llink is not working
Is the human character real or not?
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 09:51 AM
Alonzo i dont see the need for that pic, thanks for the reply man i think in the way i write my post sometimes i try to think over and over again before i hit SUBMIT REPLY.
Sounds like we are both winners now :)
i lived in the beach with my sleeping bag and my laptop, crazy yes but that is the life i have now . Lucky for me i dont have to go back to that anymore but i dont mind going back to that way of living, so you see a lot of stories behind a particular character.
I use to sleep on the floor next to my computer in NY offices so much that now that I have an apartment with 2 bedrooms and a studio, I still sleep on the floor next to my computer a lot.
I have a computer near my bed and couch and I still want to sleep on the floor. LOL. :bounce:
No worries Edgard, artist life is not a black and white straight line.
Sounds like we are both winners now :)
i lived in the beach with my sleeping bag and my laptop, crazy yes but that is the life i have now . Lucky for me i dont have to go back to that anymore but i dont mind going back to that way of living, so you see a lot of stories behind a particular character.
I use to sleep on the floor next to my computer in NY offices so much that now that I have an apartment with 2 bedrooms and a studio, I still sleep on the floor next to my computer a lot.
I have a computer near my bed and couch and I still want to sleep on the floor. LOL. :bounce:
No worries Edgard, artist life is not a black and white straight line.
futagoza
03-26-2009, 10:06 AM
Hi Aziz and Edgard,
it was probably not good from me to divide countries so that you get the feeling i was refering to you guys too. Iīm aware of the fact that in South America or certain Asian Countries good infrastructures are there along with talented people. But like i said it wonders me when i visit the CGTalk galleries and forums (maybe my impression is wrong) that you see more and more excellent works from Mainland China, Russia and other East European Countries and they never ask questions in the Big 5 Forum, ask for advise or help etc. and only present their work. So does it mean then they have all the top 3D education facilities there, where they get trained and supported from Universities/companies? And what after finishing their studies, do they all get top employment to buy Max+Vray+ZB?
Anyways, nevermind. This discussion could be probably endless and i donīt want to spend to much time for it. Thanks for your insight and happy modeling/rendering!
Regards
Stefan
it was probably not good from me to divide countries so that you get the feeling i was refering to you guys too. Iīm aware of the fact that in South America or certain Asian Countries good infrastructures are there along with talented people. But like i said it wonders me when i visit the CGTalk galleries and forums (maybe my impression is wrong) that you see more and more excellent works from Mainland China, Russia and other East European Countries and they never ask questions in the Big 5 Forum, ask for advise or help etc. and only present their work. So does it mean then they have all the top 3D education facilities there, where they get trained and supported from Universities/companies? And what after finishing their studies, do they all get top employment to buy Max+Vray+ZB?
Anyways, nevermind. This discussion could be probably endless and i donīt want to spend to much time for it. Thanks for your insight and happy modeling/rendering!
Regards
Stefan
ediris
03-26-2009, 10:15 AM
No way Stefan is a very interesting topic , i mean i know that here people get training in Australia because Singapore is close to it.
China i dont know anything but i told my boss that we need a render farm and she said that we can send it to China but you need the original license off course that is why i am got a MacPro with 16GB of RAM to be able to render 2k , hopefully we will get the job, so we are not gonna send this proposal animation to China we rather do it in house.
Is a short one anyways so there is no need to it.
China people go to the U.S or Europe to get education and than they get hired in big studios as we all know they are well talented and trained.
In South America there is a lot of talented people that just make a living out of generalist animation but only a few of them.
That is why i say Lucas Film Singapore, by the way Singapore is considered to be the tenth most expensive capital in the world. The first one is Tokio and Osaka following. Madrid and Barcelona are 23rd so is a lot of opportunities here.
China i dont know anything but i told my boss that we need a render farm and she said that we can send it to China but you need the original license off course that is why i am got a MacPro with 16GB of RAM to be able to render 2k , hopefully we will get the job, so we are not gonna send this proposal animation to China we rather do it in house.
Is a short one anyways so there is no need to it.
China people go to the U.S or Europe to get education and than they get hired in big studios as we all know they are well talented and trained.
In South America there is a lot of talented people that just make a living out of generalist animation but only a few of them.
That is why i say Lucas Film Singapore, by the way Singapore is considered to be the tenth most expensive capital in the world. The first one is Tokio and Osaka following. Madrid and Barcelona are 23rd so is a lot of opportunities here.
AzOne
03-26-2009, 10:32 AM
I wondered about the same thing too, Stefan.
I think there may have been threads on CGTalk or some other forum which discussed how CG artists pop up from all corners of the world. I think in countries where CG information or formal training is hard to come by, the folks who are really interested come together and learn through group energy :)
I remember learning how to program for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum in the mid-80s. We had 2 units in our school. Reference material was scarce but we learnt by sharing the secrets of programming we "discovered" and then trying to out-do each other. I remember a friend got a book to program an IBM computer from somewhere. He managed to apply his understanding to the Spectrum and he was the first guy to ditch BASIC and do hex programming! One of our group eventually went to California to study engineering. I was told he was one of the engineers who worked on Apple's Newton...I still wonder if that story is true ;)
I think it's great that we have such an international collection of EIAS users...especially when we consider EIAS' market share compared to the other 3d apps.
I think there may have been threads on CGTalk or some other forum which discussed how CG artists pop up from all corners of the world. I think in countries where CG information or formal training is hard to come by, the folks who are really interested come together and learn through group energy :)
I remember learning how to program for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum in the mid-80s. We had 2 units in our school. Reference material was scarce but we learnt by sharing the secrets of programming we "discovered" and then trying to out-do each other. I remember a friend got a book to program an IBM computer from somewhere. He managed to apply his understanding to the Spectrum and he was the first guy to ditch BASIC and do hex programming! One of our group eventually went to California to study engineering. I was told he was one of the engineers who worked on Apple's Newton...I still wonder if that story is true ;)
I think it's great that we have such an international collection of EIAS users...especially when we consider EIAS' market share compared to the other 3d apps.
DickM
03-26-2009, 12:45 PM
== I really only like to talk about fun stuff. Even if you are a C4D user :) (that was a bad joke?).
HEY NOW!! :cry: You have offended me :D
;)
HEY NOW!! :cry: You have offended me :D
;)
Gigayoda
03-26-2009, 02:26 PM
I'm originally from Guatemala and as far as outsourcing is concerned I would say the big marketing companies that have left Europe or the US have spread to more affordable locations where there was inherent talent just no education for the latest soft. These companies would collaborate with universities/colleges to "up" the craft.
Most starts as print material as in some of my friends cases, but after the software is learned they begin integrating the 3D, the videographers, the photographers, with the latest tech. The big catch is that in Guatemala for instance people can live on $1,000 a month and have savings and a descent education. The people in graphic arts with tech behind them have a higher salary a month but in comparison to the 3d salary statistics we had in the forum recently you can have an army of designers that would out pace the U.S. 4:1 or 3:1.
I also have a friend who joined EA and ended up moving to Canada. There the salary is comparable but living expenses are nicer so again the ratio out there would be 2:1 designer out there.
The license issue has been around for a long time. The big companies (I don't mean to offend) in some cases don't have the controls to monitor how many installs are placed on a machine. Nor do they always support an IT, usually they fly someone from HQ to setup render farms and network the office. Then employees "borrow" or copy the software so they can learn at home. However here is the key factor to the users releasing the beautiful imagery. Most of them can't afford the computer. So some would work, then spend endless hours at the company to both become an asset and as a true artist dedicate their time to the craft until they reach mastery.
I've never agreed with the term 3rd world. Rather there are countries that have more under privileged individuals than privileged. Same applies to resources and education. Some "3rd world" actually threaten the status quo to become a super power, but the super powers keep them at bay. That may open a different can of worms. Suffice to say countries have resources where people who are driven to succeed will find a way.
Here are some samples of some spectacular portfolios/studios from around the globe. Again by no means am I singling any one out but did leave out U.S. studios. These sites have a good reference to global studios http://www.fairspot.com/ and http://www.stashmedia.tv/
http://ghost.dk/ - denmark
http://www.sifondg.com/ - Argentina
http://www.yanivfridman.com/ - Mexico
http://www.domestika.org/ - Venezuela
http://www.peppermelon.tv/ - Argentina
http://www.4060.com.ar/ - Argentina
http://www.bionic-systems.com/ - Germany (just a fan of their work)
http://www.sant.at/ - Brazil
http://dslab.art.br/ - Brazil
http://www.onesize.nl/ - Netherlands
http://www.michaelpaulyoung.com/ - Thailand
http://www.goodmorningstranger.com/ - Canada (link for old site on bottom)
http://www.analogue.ca/ - Canada
http://www.pikaboo.be/ - Belgium
http://www.alexismarcou.com/ - Greece
http://www.resin.com.au/ - Australia
http://www.iameuropean.com/ - Australia
http://www.korb.lt/ - Lithuania Nice work here
Hope you all enjoy. This is more of an inspiration and helps me gage where I stand in a global motion/3D graphics market. It applies to you fine folks in this forum :bowdown:
Most starts as print material as in some of my friends cases, but after the software is learned they begin integrating the 3D, the videographers, the photographers, with the latest tech. The big catch is that in Guatemala for instance people can live on $1,000 a month and have savings and a descent education. The people in graphic arts with tech behind them have a higher salary a month but in comparison to the 3d salary statistics we had in the forum recently you can have an army of designers that would out pace the U.S. 4:1 or 3:1.
I also have a friend who joined EA and ended up moving to Canada. There the salary is comparable but living expenses are nicer so again the ratio out there would be 2:1 designer out there.
The license issue has been around for a long time. The big companies (I don't mean to offend) in some cases don't have the controls to monitor how many installs are placed on a machine. Nor do they always support an IT, usually they fly someone from HQ to setup render farms and network the office. Then employees "borrow" or copy the software so they can learn at home. However here is the key factor to the users releasing the beautiful imagery. Most of them can't afford the computer. So some would work, then spend endless hours at the company to both become an asset and as a true artist dedicate their time to the craft until they reach mastery.
I've never agreed with the term 3rd world. Rather there are countries that have more under privileged individuals than privileged. Same applies to resources and education. Some "3rd world" actually threaten the status quo to become a super power, but the super powers keep them at bay. That may open a different can of worms. Suffice to say countries have resources where people who are driven to succeed will find a way.
Here are some samples of some spectacular portfolios/studios from around the globe. Again by no means am I singling any one out but did leave out U.S. studios. These sites have a good reference to global studios http://www.fairspot.com/ and http://www.stashmedia.tv/
http://ghost.dk/ - denmark
http://www.sifondg.com/ - Argentina
http://www.yanivfridman.com/ - Mexico
http://www.domestika.org/ - Venezuela
http://www.peppermelon.tv/ - Argentina
http://www.4060.com.ar/ - Argentina
http://www.bionic-systems.com/ - Germany (just a fan of their work)
http://www.sant.at/ - Brazil
http://dslab.art.br/ - Brazil
http://www.onesize.nl/ - Netherlands
http://www.michaelpaulyoung.com/ - Thailand
http://www.goodmorningstranger.com/ - Canada (link for old site on bottom)
http://www.analogue.ca/ - Canada
http://www.pikaboo.be/ - Belgium
http://www.alexismarcou.com/ - Greece
http://www.resin.com.au/ - Australia
http://www.iameuropean.com/ - Australia
http://www.korb.lt/ - Lithuania Nice work here
Hope you all enjoy. This is more of an inspiration and helps me gage where I stand in a global motion/3D graphics market. It applies to you fine folks in this forum :bowdown:
leigh
03-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Yes Alonzo, i have seen this, because i surf daily the CGTalk Galleries and other Forums here.
What me always surprises here at CGTalk how those Artist from "3rd 3D World Countries" can afford Max+Vray+ZBrush. Almost all images here are made with this Combo and when i look at the Country they are comming from iīm always (donīt have a word for ;-)).
BTW Does someone know what the prices are for Max+Vray+ZBrush in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, etc. are? Iīm really curious about that.
Regards
Stefan
I think you'd find people in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, and indeed Hungary (where the artist whose work is being discussed is from) wouldn't appreciate you labeling their countries as "third world". In fact, that's downright offensive. If you want to insult people's countries, please don't do it here, or you'll find yourself banned.
What me always surprises here at CGTalk how those Artist from "3rd 3D World Countries" can afford Max+Vray+ZBrush. Almost all images here are made with this Combo and when i look at the Country they are comming from iīm always (donīt have a word for ;-)).
BTW Does someone know what the prices are for Max+Vray+ZBrush in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, etc. are? Iīm really curious about that.
Regards
Stefan
I think you'd find people in countries like China, Iran, Romania, Russia, and indeed Hungary (where the artist whose work is being discussed is from) wouldn't appreciate you labeling their countries as "third world". In fact, that's downright offensive. If you want to insult people's countries, please don't do it here, or you'll find yourself banned.
Vizfizz
03-26-2009, 04:48 PM
Gentleman...this is Leigh. She is CGTalk's highest admin. Just so you know she is the final authority on any discussion on this site.
3DArtZ
03-26-2009, 06:08 PM
Well I certianly dont want the wrath of the top admin on me, and I do agree. it is a bit insulting to have one's country labeled third world....
But Hungary is actually listed as "second world" Probably due to its hurting economy and imf bailout hopes....
EIAS forum is a battlefield as of late!
But Hungary is actually listed as "second world" Probably due to its hurting economy and imf bailout hopes....
EIAS forum is a battlefield as of late!
FelixCat
03-26-2009, 06:19 PM
Hi, Brian. Absolutely OT. Leigh is a nice lady that used to give great ideas for texturing, some time ago? i remember to follow her tutorials, they were great!.
BTW, we are all a bit sensitive this days...? frankly i donīt think second world or thrd world are insulting things, itīs an economical definition, based on general income... no implying second class or third class people (i come from a third world country; Chile, and donīt feel insulted)
FelixCat
BTW, we are all a bit sensitive this days...? frankly i donīt think second world or thrd world are insulting things, itīs an economical definition, based on general income... no implying second class or third class people (i come from a third world country; Chile, and donīt feel insulted)
FelixCat
Vizfizz
03-26-2009, 06:28 PM
Must be a full moon.
Thing is, we're used to having a fairly self contained community. Post forum, the platter, and even EI's forum isn't quite as broad as CGTalk's. Literally there are millions of members to this website and even if we think we're just chatting amongst ourselves, fact is everything here is accessible to anyone. Sometimes we forget that....
When conversations are abbreviated or moderated, it isn't because the moderator is some kind of overlord hell bent on censorship. There are specific rules here. Perhaps a recap of specific rules is necessary. Personally, I think I'm pretty reasonable. I try to work things out as much as possible because I don't like discord. I don't always succeed. Generally I feel most people may not think they are saying something wrong. Its hard to access tone in the written word. Is something that is written intended to be sarcastic, demeaning, or is it said with genuine sentiment or no emotion at all?...sometimes its hard to tell.
EI users are opinionated. We always have been. We just need to assure that we're putting our best foot forward because we are the representatives of EI to the global community.
Thing is, we're used to having a fairly self contained community. Post forum, the platter, and even EI's forum isn't quite as broad as CGTalk's. Literally there are millions of members to this website and even if we think we're just chatting amongst ourselves, fact is everything here is accessible to anyone. Sometimes we forget that....
When conversations are abbreviated or moderated, it isn't because the moderator is some kind of overlord hell bent on censorship. There are specific rules here. Perhaps a recap of specific rules is necessary. Personally, I think I'm pretty reasonable. I try to work things out as much as possible because I don't like discord. I don't always succeed. Generally I feel most people may not think they are saying something wrong. Its hard to access tone in the written word. Is something that is written intended to be sarcastic, demeaning, or is it said with genuine sentiment or no emotion at all?...sometimes its hard to tell.
EI users are opinionated. We always have been. We just need to assure that we're putting our best foot forward because we are the representatives of EI to the global community.
Gigayoda
03-26-2009, 07:28 PM
(i come from a third world country; Chile, and donīt feel insulted)
FelixCat
I second you on that one. Not insulted at all myself. Ultimately the main question beyond licensing is... What are they feeding these artists from abroad to cook up some phenomenal renders? :D
FelixCat
I second you on that one. Not insulted at all myself. Ultimately the main question beyond licensing is... What are they feeding these artists from abroad to cook up some phenomenal renders? :D
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 07:38 PM
HEY NOW!! :cry: You have offended me :D
;)
Hahah. Yeah...but it's OK if i offend you tho' Rich. Haha.
You my buddy. ahah. :thumbsup:
;)
Hahah. Yeah...but it's OK if i offend you tho' Rich. Haha.
You my buddy. ahah. :thumbsup:
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 08:04 PM
Must be a full moon.
Thing is, we're used to having a fairly self contained community. Post forum, the platter, and even EI's forum isn't quite as broad as CGTalk's. Literally there are millions of members to this website and even if we think we're just chatting amongst ourselves, fact is everything here is accessible to anyone. Sometimes we forget that....
.
I need to cosign your post Brian.
CGTALK is far more public than any other EI forum or platter. It's very different here. It is not just the EI community that we are ALL accountable to. Brian, "asked" to represent the EI community here. It's a HUGE favor he did. No matter what, I REPECT him as" forum leader" for the extensive amount of work he did getting "us" this forum.
"I have been on this forum for years before EI got here and I'm not going to leave if you guys BLOW IT and get EI KICK OFF THIS BOARD!!"
There's about 15% truth in that statement. It's almost impossible to tell that there's 95% humour.(yes, doesn't add up correctly I know) Let's not take things so seriously. No one is attacking your skill level, your experience or person. This is a place to GROW. Truth is most of what I know about 3D is from CGTALK. I hold being a member of this form in high regard even before EI came here.
Only thing that can be done is give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes post just arent aware of cultural, social-economic "fo-pahs" (sp) ...Do's and Don'ts. Even if sometimes we are having a crazy day and say something wrong. Honestly I believe the change in season effects people strangely. Or just personally taking a "Break" ourselves if things start to spiral out of control.
Anyway, I think it's a good idea to post "term of service" just before abbreviating a thread and I think you a doing a good job of it all with Challenges, company interest and mediations. ( the mediate: that means keep things close to the middle haha)
I'm just happy there's no penalty for grammer or typos and that there's an EDIT button. haha. My post make more sense as time goes by. haha. edit edit edit.
Thing is, we're used to having a fairly self contained community. Post forum, the platter, and even EI's forum isn't quite as broad as CGTalk's. Literally there are millions of members to this website and even if we think we're just chatting amongst ourselves, fact is everything here is accessible to anyone. Sometimes we forget that....
.
I need to cosign your post Brian.
CGTALK is far more public than any other EI forum or platter. It's very different here. It is not just the EI community that we are ALL accountable to. Brian, "asked" to represent the EI community here. It's a HUGE favor he did. No matter what, I REPECT him as" forum leader" for the extensive amount of work he did getting "us" this forum.
"I have been on this forum for years before EI got here and I'm not going to leave if you guys BLOW IT and get EI KICK OFF THIS BOARD!!"
There's about 15% truth in that statement. It's almost impossible to tell that there's 95% humour.(yes, doesn't add up correctly I know) Let's not take things so seriously. No one is attacking your skill level, your experience or person. This is a place to GROW. Truth is most of what I know about 3D is from CGTALK. I hold being a member of this form in high regard even before EI came here.
Only thing that can be done is give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes post just arent aware of cultural, social-economic "fo-pahs" (sp) ...Do's and Don'ts. Even if sometimes we are having a crazy day and say something wrong. Honestly I believe the change in season effects people strangely. Or just personally taking a "Break" ourselves if things start to spiral out of control.
Anyway, I think it's a good idea to post "term of service" just before abbreviating a thread and I think you a doing a good job of it all with Challenges, company interest and mediations. ( the mediate: that means keep things close to the middle haha)
I'm just happy there's no penalty for grammer or typos and that there's an EDIT button. haha. My post make more sense as time goes by. haha. edit edit edit.
AVTPro
03-26-2009, 08:35 PM
Now that I think about it...
Brian, BOW DOWN TO ME!!! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
I have been here since 2003!!!
Felix and I have more TENURE than you. LOL
Just joking. You Rock. :buttrock: :arteest: :bowdown:
Brian, BOW DOWN TO ME!!! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
I have been here since 2003!!!
Felix and I have more TENURE than you. LOL
Just joking. You Rock. :buttrock: :arteest: :bowdown:
FelixCat
03-26-2009, 09:52 PM
Alonzo, we are geting old and still no CA in EiAS :D
Just joking. Hope the birth of v8... i need those lighting tools too.
FelixCat
Just joking. Hope the birth of v8... i need those lighting tools too.
FelixCat
AVTPro
03-27-2009, 02:20 AM
Alonzo, we are geting old and still no CA in EiAS :D
Just joking. Hope the birth of v8... i need those lighting tools too.
FelixCat
Yep. Getting Old buddy. OK. This year!! :)
Just joking. Hope the birth of v8... i need those lighting tools too.
FelixCat
Yep. Getting Old buddy. OK. This year!! :)
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03-27-2009, 02:20 AM
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