Advice on Windows XP 64 Bit editions

[ErikSvensson]

I bought Xp 64-bit Pro because I didn't want to get Vista either (has bad experiences with it at work so... hehe) I think you should buy pro because an OEM license is really cheap for XP these days. I don't know what differences there are but pro always seems better. :)

I haven't run into a single issue with Xp 64-bits (maya-user) so I don't think you will do that either. Quicktime works great on it, never tried C4D though.

Erik

[BOXXlabs]

I must strongly encourage you to reconsider your choice XP64 if one of your main tools is After Effects CS4.

Adobe WILL NOT support this application under Windows XP64. I have heard many people say that they have this combination and that it works fine... OK. I have also heard about people having problems with this.

There are any number of reasons you may have had a "bad experience" with Vista before. Many poeple who tried it before either:

1) didn't have a completely Vista-compatible system, or
2) didn't understand that a few security (UAC) settings needed to be changed in order to get the annoying pop-up windows to go away, or
3) didn't take the time to learn the key changes that were made to the locations/workflow of the most often needed tools and functionality in the OS


We at BOXX were very skeptical about Vista for a long time - and actively suggested that our customers stick with XP64. However, for the past 6-9 months we have seen more and more pro artists choosing Vista 64 over XP64. And we're perfectly happy with this.

At this point, the vast majority of the workstations we sell are delivered with Vista 64. We've had very few complaints about performance, stability or useability from our customers - most of whom are working artists (and long-time Windows users) who depend on their system to work like they need it to every day.

Statistically, Vista (and Vista 64) produces no more technical support issues for our customers than any other OS. It's completely viable as an operating system.

Vista haters may be missing the boat.

[BOXXlabs]

Also I heard that the 64 bit editions have some compatibility issues with certain formats and programs such as QuickTime and C4D... Could anyone elaborate a little on this?



If you run a 64bit OS, you will need to install and use the 32-bit versions of your favorite APPS whenever you are needing to create Quicktime files.

[legmog]

Heya... Thanks for the replies guys (hah... I'm a poet and I didn't know it :p )

Thats some sound advice about Vista... I'll defiantly look into it.

And what you said about After Effects... How do you mean Adobe will not 'support' AE under XP 64?... How come? And by not supporting it... What does that mean exactly. Does that mean it will not run on XP 64? Or does it mean that it WILL run, but if you have any problems or errors, Adobe won't help you or back you up if it goes wrong?

Sorry if this seems like a newby question... I really am not au fait with all this computer stuff ^^.

Also when you said this..
'If you run a 64bit OS, you will need to install and use the 32-bit versions of your favorite APPS whenever you are needing to create Quicktime files.'


Does that mean if I am for example using C4D or After Effects and want to export or render a .mov file.... It will only work if my versions of C4D and AE are 32 bit?
Because basically.. The only reason I am going for 64 bit Windows is that it can access all the extra RAM... I am aware that you can get 64 bit versions of applications.... But I always intended to the regular 32 bit anyhows.... (or is that a dumb idea?)

[Srek]

I'm using Vista 64 at work and XP 64 at home on otherwise comparable systems.
Vista is definitly the better choice of the two, even though i dislike some of the interface stuff a lot.
As for QT. If you want to create QT movies on a 64 bit system you either need to use a 32 bit app (which is not as bad as it sounds since all current 32 bit apps can use up to 4 GB RAM when running on a 64 Bit Windows), or you need to render image sequences with the 64 bit app and later create a QT movie from them using QT-Pro or any other 32 bit video software. Since rendering image sequences instead of compressed footeage is generaly preferable thats actualy not a big deal.
Cheers
Björn

[vlad]

That's because there's still no Quicktime 64.

[olson]

I'd recommend Vista since all versions of XP are at the end of their support life both for applications and for the operating system itself. As for the versions of XP you listed the Windows XP Professional x64 Edition is for AMD and Intel processors that use the AMD64 architecture (extension of x86 architecture), and the Windows XP 64-bit Edition is only for Itanium series processors and will not work with any other processors and has been discontinued. Cheers!

[Benr]

I couldn't even get Adobe Production Premium CS4 to install on XP64. No problem on Vista 64.

[cdenny]

In the last three weeks I have reinstalled a new OS, clean slate and all, nine times.
First OS, vista x64-not bad but got bored with it;
Second OS, xp x64-ugly and had networking errors;
Third OS, vista x64 again-had a driver error which prevented sleep mode
Fourth OS, ubuntu x64-fun with the cube, but impractical and hulu was choppy
Fifth OS, WINServer 2008 (workstation setup)-not bad at all, I liked it, but got bored with it
Six OS, Vista x64 again-worked great out of box, but again, wanted MORE
Seventh OS, WIN7 x64-wasnt fond of the icons for running applications, some quarks
Eigth and current OS vista X64-working good so far, not going to change anytime soon
It was actually somewhat fun.

Of all of the different operating systems I used, sometimes twice or thrice, vista is the best. Overall I believe all of the operating systems are lacking, and I hate them, but they're the best we have. Vista has the most compatibility, and honestly, xp is just fugly.
USE VISTA X64! DONT REINSTALL 9 TIMES TO FIGURE IT OUT.

-Chris

p.s. for those who read my "operating system??" thread, this is why I asked.

[salmonmoose]

Does that mean if I am for example using C4D or After Effects and want to export or render a .mov file.... It will only work if my versions of C4D and AE are 32 bit?
Because basically.. The only reason I am going for 64 bit Windows is that it can access all the extra RAM... I am aware that you can get 64 bit versions of applications.... But I always intended to the regular 32 bit anyhows.... (or is that a dumb idea?)

Depends what you're doing really - if you generally multitask, then running 32bit applications in x64 isn't so bad, because you've got more room to move. However, if you generally only use one application and it's only able to access 4gig of ram, you're holding it back.

64bit applications can also use 64bit variables, which should make some maths faster - I don't know how common this is internally however, but it's worth noting that 64bit does not just mean more RAM.

If you're tricky, you can probably convince mencoder to encode .mov files and use a 64bit compiled version :)

[legmog]

Aaah.... This is all very interesting.

It seems a route issue here is the difference between 32 Bit applications and 64 bit applications.

And from what I gather on these forums (and a bit of Google research), is that regardless if you have a 64 bit OS... If the programs you use are 32 bit versions, then those programs are limited to only accessing 4 gig of memory right?
However 64 bit versions cannot create QT files but 32 bit apps can.

I am however a bit skeptical / confused about 64 bit now after doing a bit more research...
I searched for Cinema 4d 64 bit in Google...
One of the links I looked at ( http://www.creationengine.com/html/p.lasso?p=15384 )
And it said this about C4D 64 bit

'- Support for 64-bit on Mac OS X
CINEMA 4D R11 is the first comprehensive 3D package completely re-engineered to take full advantage of the Mac OS X 10.5 release. As a native 64-bit Cocoa application, CINEMA 4D can be used in 64-bit mode to utilize greater RAM resources so you can build and render more complex projects. All 64-bit processors are supported. Users can easily switch between 32-bit and 64-bit mode to suit their individual needs.'


Ok so I get it can run as a 64bit application on a Mac Operating System... But there was no mention to 64 bit running on Windows...
Then I found this link...
http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/1408/01408_01408.html
From this it seems there is a 64bit version of C4D, but only for version 9??
So I presume if one has 64 bit Windows.... The only version of Cinema 4D which is itself a 64 bit app is version 9? Meaning v.10/ v.11 and above are only 32 bit apps and can thus only make use of 4 gig? That seems a bit of a bummer, having to revert all the way back to v.9 just to be able to make use of 64 bit, losing out on all the great features of the post 9 versions.
Or at least thats the impression I got anyway.

I also got put off a bit by this link... http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/1426/vista_64_bit_or_32_bit_version_x64_vs_x86/
And the same with this link too (although the problem was eventually rectified) http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/19/860949


It seems to me, from the research I've done... Although 64 bit is probably the future of computing, it's still in very early 'toe in the water' phases at the moment, and there's still very few actual 64 bit applications to run. And from those links + the discussion we've had here about QT, there seems to be quite a lot of compatibility issues in which some things can not even run at all :( .

I'm just finding it very hard to get my head around and take it all in, considering I'm a total noob with all technical things like this ^^.
Also it seemed from some of those links, people seemed to be able to interchange between 32 bit and 64 bit!... I dunno wether they were talking about the OS or the Apps when they interchanged between the 2...

"ive had 64 bits on my dell and i couldnt installl certain antivirus and programs
so i converted to 32 bits and it gave me a better experience with it"

"Cinema 4D doesn't run on it at ALL! 32 bit nor 64 bit!!! "

They're just speaking like they can switch between the 2 with ease...... Oh god I'm so confused ^^... I think my brains turning to mush with all this OS, 32-64 bit compatibility talk ^^.
I can just see it now.... Going for 64 bit Windows and having a ton of problems and spending hours upon hours on forums trying to resolve everything ^^.

[imashination]

Well first, there is an advantage to use a 64bit OS instead of 32, even if youre only using 32bit software. Under windows 32bit, realistically each app can only access between 1.6 and 2.6 gigs of ram due to the amount reserved by the OS for itself. If you run the same 32bit software on a 64bit version of windows, the program will be able to use 4 gigs of ram, so this alone is a good advantage.]

Secondly, lets say you run a web browser, email, 3d app, photoshop, music player.... All of these apps can access their own 4 gigs with a 64bit os. under a 32bit os theyre all squashed into the same ~2gigs of space.

For c4d, the windows version has been 64bit for a few years. Only recently has the OSX 64bit version been released.

If you have c4d 11 then you have 64bit and 32bit versions for mac and windows regardless of which version your purchased

Ignore problems with antivirus etc, these were sorted long ago, read the date of their posts, theyre probably back from 2007

Short version: just install a 64bit OS, you have no good reason not to.

[BOXXlabs]

It seems to me, from the research I've done... Although 64 bit is probably the future of computing, it's still in very early 'toe in the water' phases at the moment, and there's still very few actual 64 bit applications to run. And from those links + the discussion we've had here about QT, there seems to be quite a lot of compatibility issues in which some things can not even run at all :( .




Well KUDOS to you for putting in some real legwork and honestly trying to understand the implications for 64bit computing for you - as an artist.

There is so much conflicting data -and so many conflicting viewpoints about this topic over the past few years that it may be hard (as a non-techie, relative newcomer) to come up with an accurate final analysis. Let me help...

I think that if you were to parse the all information you Googled and/or read on forums or manufacturer's websites and only include data from 2008/2009 then you should find that the VAST majority (99% ?) of professional graphics design applications for Windows are by now either native 64 bit - or are still 32bit, but run great in a 64bit environment.

As for the maturity of 64bit Windows computing in general, I'll stake my reputation on my endorsement for the use of 64bit OS's for graphics workstations.

If you buy/assemble quality parts (or better yet, a quality preconfigured system) that are tested and sold as "Vista64/XP64 Compatible" then there should be no worries about system staibility or performance problems with any of the programs you may need to run.

In fact, I see only upside-and ZERO downside to running Vista64 as an artist.

This is pretty much the bottom line as far as i am concerned.

;)

[legmog]

Hi imashination and BOXXlabs... Thanks a lot for the responses... Thats made thing a lot clearer. Things are finally starting to make sense ^^.
I really appreciate everybody's input. It's been invaluable.
I think I'm now pretty much ready to compile an exact list of components for my custom PC now... I'll post it up soon as a new thread for some more general advice / last minute checks ^^.


I do however only have 1 more question regarding OS's now... And that is..

For high end graphical 3D work... What 64 Bit Vista do you believe is the best to go for...

Windows Vista Business

or

Windows Vista Premium?


Thanks.

[olson]

Hi imashination and BOXXlabs... Thanks a lot for the responses... Thats made thing a lot clearer. Things are finally starting to make sense ^^.
I really appreciate everybody's input. It's been invaluable.
I think I'm now pretty much ready to compile an exact list of components for my custom PC now... I'll post it up soon as a new thread for some more general advice / last minute checks ^^.


I do however only have 1 more question regarding OS's now... And that is..

For high end graphical 3D work... What 64 Bit Vista do you believe is the best to go for...

Windows Vista Business

or

Windows Vista Premium?


Thanks.

Vista Business if its for a workstation. It will allow for more memory and dual socket motherboards, and doesn't have all the extra crap of Ultimate like the movie maker and media center. Cheers!

[ErikSvensson]

I must strongly encourage you to reconsider your choice XP64 if one of your main tools is After Effects CS4.

Adobe WILL NOT support this application under Windows XP64. I have heard many people say that they have this combination and that it works fine... OK. I have also heard about people having problems with this.

There are any number of reasons you may have had a "bad experience" with Vista before. Many poeple who tried it before either:

1) didn't have a completely Vista-compatible system, or
2) didn't understand that a few security (UAC) settings needed to be changed in order to get the annoying pop-up windows to go away, or
3) didn't take the time to learn the key changes that were made to the locations/workflow of the most often needed tools and functionality in the OS


We at BOXX were very skeptical about Vista for a long time - and actively suggested that our customers stick with XP64. However, for the past 6-9 months we have seen more and more pro artists choosing Vista 64 over XP64. And we're perfectly happy with this.

At this point, the vast majority of the workstations we sell are delivered with Vista 64. We've had very few complaints about performance, stability or useability from our customers - most of whom are working artists (and long-time Windows users) who depend on their system to work like they need it to every day.

Statistically, Vista (and Vista 64) produces no more technical support issues for our customers than any other OS. It's completely viable as an operating system.

Vista haters may be missing the boat.

Vista hater is a such strong word though... I myself don't hate it but I don't like it either. The navigation from maya when I want to save a file is just messed up in it (when you browse a lot of folders that is..) They introduced some really weird stuff that I can't really explain... like XP's more then and use the folder cache app on that. And vista @ work eat 1.30 gb ram when i boot, my pc at home with XP eats 500 mb in idle.

Off topic but I won't upgrade til windows 7 probably. :) To the topic creator I guess your safest bet is Vista when there is no support for some of your apps in XP-64.

Erik

[imashination]

The amount of ram in use when you boot is irrelevant, its not really using it, its just making use of it whilst youre not. Vista loads in apps that you use often, just in case you want to launch it. If you use a different bit of software and it needs more memory, vista will drop the cached apps and free up the ram for the other app that needs it.

[ErikSvensson]

The amount of ram in use when you boot is irrelevant, its not really using it, its just making use of it whilst youre not. Vista loads in apps that you use often, just in case you want to launch it. If you use a different bit of software and it needs more memory, vista will drop the cached apps and free up the ram for the other app that needs it.


I meant when the PC was running. But I'm no good with hardware so I'm not that trustable. :) Still my pc at home seems to work better, but it might be something else too of course, but they're almost identical.

Erik