Back to C4D

[adem]

I think using maya is the best way to learn how good C4D is!

[hmmdonuts]

Virtual Reality Generators??? Damn, you must be using a different prgram to me! :D

Cheers

hmmdonuts

[geoffb]

You know I shared you sentiment for a long time. Until I actually took a workshop on Maya. Now I just want to learn more and more about it. I dont know why, but Maya just seems to come more naturally then C4D did for me. I'm not saying that I will be switching permanently, but I am having problems going back. For instance the Alt+MMB kills me, I know there was another post about it, but I only used maya for two days and when I tried to use C4D again, I found myself wondering why I couldn't pan around an object, and then I tried to Middle Mouse everything. That is just one aspect that I feel is better. Then there are the paint effects! Oh my gosh. In like 30 seconds or less I can create a feild of roses like none other and it would take me ages in C4D, or a plugin, and comes with Maya. I think I am in love! There are some many things that just seem to come more naturally in Maya than C4D, to me at least. I mean I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble not switching completely.

Regards,
Geoff

[pasto]

Well I am diving into Maya too.
I must admit that the effort wasn't put on the interface ! But the tools as Delta said are amazing, but not that far from C4D (particles and dynamics have a lot in common for what I saw in 2 weeks).


pasto

[mimo8]

the contributions in this post seem real honest and without any intention to battle the apps aggainst each other.
so I dare to ask my question abbout switching or not.

sometimes when I sttruggle with the timeline, animating a character I ask myself if the workflow and the overview for animators is clearer arranged in maya than in c4d?

I don´t have any comparision but when I have to scroll through endless objects till I find the one I just want to key this feels odd. for sure you can organize your list by using layers or using automatic modus - but what I miss the most is the abbility to turn off the X,Y,Z coordinates of each object and colapse them temporary into one track in c4d.

sorry for going into detail. I just don´t know if the overview in a complex bobe set up is allways a question of routine ( and more routine) or if ther is also a drastic difference amongst the various apps?
so how does the animation-workflow in maya seem to you in comparision to c4d?

thnx

[dg3d]

To each is own, but before i made my choice of buying Cinema 4D i decided to try all the demo that the compagnies we're offering. Maya PLE, Softimage Experience CD set, lightwave and Cinema 4D was the one that i liked what you could do and the interface. Now after buying the software and reading the book i find myself saying that i really have a great software in my hands and i do not regret it. I used Maya a little bit before and i must say that i prefer Cinema 4D. But this is me. I know each software are great and fit to peoples who use them.

[Geespot]

Ive never used Maya but I don't understand why Maya can produce the amazing character models I constantly see on the cgtalk finished gallery.

Does maya make it easier to make high quality characters? Whats so special about Maya that can produce fantastic models?

After lookignat a few Maya tutorials, it just seems basic mesh modeling that C4D can do.

[Brent Turbo]

Originally posted by Geespot
Does maya make it easier to make high quality characters? Whats so special about Maya that can produce fantastic models?

There's nothing magical about Maya that makes great characters. The quality you see is because a lot of great artists use Maya.

I use Cinema as well as Maya, and there's a good reason why a lot of people use Maya. It's a full featured, very mature application with big money for R+D. Once you've gotten into shading networks with Maya, Cinema's material editor looks like a toy. With just a handful of texture and utility nodes in Maya's Hypershade, you can create amazing materials.

I'd like to see something similar to the Hypershade added to Cinema, where users can take full advantage of utilities like samplerInfo, and connect those to any number of inputs on textures and shaders. You can literally do anything you want with Maya materials. You can make reflectivity based on surface luminance....easy! You can even stack several shaders and have one shader become exposed by only one specific light in your scene. If you can think of a way that light/material/camera can interact, Maya can most likely do it without a lot of fuss. Most complicated networks I've made using Fusion in Cinema start to fall apart once they get too complicated.

Brent

[bry]

Hi,

there are advantages in both apps, the thing with maya is that it is much stronger in the advanced features, while laking the intuitivity of C4D in the most basic tasks.

features like Dynamics, Particles, Character Rigging & Animation have no match in C4D

on the other side, C4D's renderer and lighting tools are awesome and so much easier to use than Maya's. Xpresso is also awesome, as well as the apps philosophy.

however, maya is a much more mature app in the sense that every little tool/feature has tons of customization options, just look at the amount of things you can do with axes, and that's just a small detail. then there's MEL, which you have to learn (even if just a little bit) to understand where the real power of maya is! every single button/menu in maya is a MEL script that's in the scripts folder! not only you can have access to it (non-compiled), but it's even comented so u can understand exactly what it does!
With some knowledge of MEL, you could make Maya's interface JUST LIKE C4D's!

in the end, I stand with my opinion, there's no best overall tool, however, for each specific task, there's an app that shines a little more.

for still work and illustration, I choose C4D without hesitating, but when it comes down to animation, specially character animation, maya will save you a lot of time!


Bruno

[Byla]

I have been using Maya for like 6 months now, before I was a Cinema user. I havent switched or anything like that, its just, I have to use maya because my school demands that. And I have to say that for like 85 % of all jobs Ive done so far in Maya would be easyer and faster done with Cinema. Why?

1. bugs in Maya. Huge number of them, version 5.0 is even worse than 4.5

2. setting up Maya render or MR is pain in the ass. Cinemas render is awsome and much better for most of stuff. For other stuff, MR is better. And probably PRMan too. Maya default render engine sux in every espect. Quality, render time and stability. Specialy if you dont use batch :)

3. texturing in maya is poor, because of lack of bodypaint 4d.

4. UI has some nice features, but overall i think cinemas UI is better, faster.


And yes, I totaly agree with adem. using maya is the best way to learn how good C4D is!:eek:

[Boone]

Funny, I tried out a demo version of RealSoft3D 4.5 and have since never found another app that can beat its sub-division tools...but Cinema 4D R8 comes close.

I'm still trying out C4D, and I'm please with it so far. But I want to try Maya first before making a decision on a purchase...:hmm:

[mimo8]

as I sayed before I like this post a lot

is ther anyone arround who can compare the animation process of maya / c4d by giving examples


bry:"... Character Rigging & Animation have no match in C4D..."

what makes it easier in maya to animate?
how are the presets for character-anim?
thnx

[bry]

Hi,

Maya's rigging process, IK and constrains are just awesome.
You can rig a whole character in Maya in about 20 minutes, and I mean a very stable rig!
In a class I took, we were timed in our exercises and there's a record of 3:30 for a complete human rig except for the hands.
IK, FK, aditional controls, etc, etc.

This would be very hard to do in C4D, although I could rig a character in 15 minutes using Mme Sadie's new Constrainer plugin tag, a big help for CA in C4D.

Bruno

[brammelo]

Originally posted by Brent Turbo
I'd like to see something similar to the Hypershade added to Cinema, where users can take full advantage of utilities like samplerInfo, and connect those to any number of inputs on textures and shaders. You can literally do anything you want with Maya materials. You can make reflectivity based on surface luminance....easy! You can even stack several shaders and have one shader become exposed by only one specific light in your scene. If you can think of a way that light/material/camera can interact, Maya can most likely do it without a lot of fuss. Most complicated networks I've made using Fusion in Cinema start to fall apart once they get too complicated.

Brent

When they introduced XPresso, every user (who knew Maya) asked when they were going to use it for their material system as well. Trust me, they're working on it. But as always, there's lots and lots to do, so a timeframe isn't available. I think they will first try to rewrite the BhodiNut shader system so that it fits in with their "own" material system, so that you can have the Bhodinut shaders in the attribute manager (with hopefully better material previews).

B.T.W., there used to be something called Blunt Trauma that was trying to build a node based material system (from BhodiNut), but they stopped development.

Cheers,
BaRa

[mimo8]

Originally posted by bry
...This would be very hard to do in C4D, although I could rig a character in 15 minutes using Mme Sadie's new Constrainer plugin, a big help for CA in C4D...

where can I find this plug?
thnx

[danb]

i like this thread as i have been fortunate to test maya, lightwave, 3dmax, and xsi. i keep coming back to cinema because of that glue that someone mentioned earlier. the other thing i would like to point out is that this conversation would have no merit if i took place last year or the year before. version 8 has made leaps. especially with animation and character rigging. this just points out how quickly the program can and will be improved. i especially like the interface. i love those windows that i can undock, kick ass. when i get my dual monitor card its going to be alot of fun to use cinema. i can tell you that i have never used that sentence for any other software. maya fun? yeah right, only if you've been using it for 5+ years. max fun? pfffft! lightwave? dinosaur. xsi? only if you got dual xeons.

we are not alone my friends. alot of people have been noticing cinema lately. its got the most bang for the buck and i am making it my first choice from now on.

[Boone]

Well, guys - I've had a go at animation using Cinema 4D R8( Demo - core program).

Its pretty much the same as RealSoft3D 4.5's animation system, but I think C4D is much easier to use.

After getting my new PC, Cinema 4D R8( core program) is next on my shopping list. Can't wait to join the C4D community!:beer:

[bry]

Originally posted by danb
maya fun? yeah right, only if you've been using it for 5+ years

That's not true... I took a 4 weeks intensive maya course and I'm telling you... unlike C4D, u can't learn maya by yourself, but once u have, it's the easier and faster app to use, except for lighting and rendering, where C4D is really ahead.

Now, C4D is my weapon of choice, but Maya is currently much more powerful. C4D has been growing and getting better and better very fast and I think it's a great tool that will become even greater in the near future.

About the Constrainer tag plugin, it's not out yet, but should be very soon, ask Mdme Sadie.

Bruno

[Boone]

Re: Bry.

I've have to learn Maya, even though I want C4D as my personal 3D app...

What are my chances of getting to grips with Maya within a month? At least enough to say to employers - "Yeah, sure. I'm familar with Maya."?

[bry]

www.3dbuzz.com

Go to forums-general-lounge.

They offer a 4 week maya course (U4) that is incredibly amazing!

Detailed info on www.3duniversity.com

Bruno

[ThirdEye]

My general opinion is that C4D is faster and assures better results in a shorter time when you compare it to Maya. Maya workflow is the result of several programming teams, C4D has been coded by a few people and the results are clear, sometimes Maya just doesn't shine for its common sense. Maya is maybe more powerful than C4D, assuming we're talking about Maya complete, if you take Maya Unlimited then it's like comparing apples to oranges.

modeling:

a) nurbs/patches: C4D is worse than Maya for sure, Maya gives you good patches and decent nurbs, C4D Nurbs are not so powerful

b) poly/subds: i generally prefer C4D's Hypernurbs to Maya smooth proxy/subds for a matter of workflow and speed. Maya gives you ngons but the tools are just clunky and slow, try to bevel an edge. C4D is superior for weights and stuff like that.

animation:

dunno about Maya but EVERYTHING in C4D is easily animatable. About CA... It seems it's not so terrible in C4D, it just lacks some tools but it seems it's not so far from Maya's if you use Mocca, Visual Selector and the new mdme_sadie ik plugin. Plus SIK is just great. The biggest advantage of Maya over C4D is the possibility to create your own tools in a simple way using MEL, this is just more complex in C4D.

rendering:

C4D just wins hands down. Mental Ray's integration is far from perfect plus it can be really complex to set up, and if you're not a master expect long rendertimes. Our lighting system is just fantastic, you have every kind of light you may desire with a plethora of options

painting:

this is just a matter of Bodypaint3D and Paint FX, but it would be like comparing apples to oranges again. Bp is not perfect but i bet Maxon will update it when possible, and we already know that they never fail when they create something new.

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