Plugin : Freeware Scene Explorer

[LFShade]

That's a really cool project! I'll check it out:thumbsup:

RH

[visualboo]

Very cool. Installing now :thumbsup:

[Abraham]

Thanks a lot I will try it :) The XSI scene explorer is one of the tools I envy from XSI so your tool is very welcome :)

Ab

[Equinoxx]

just downloaded and installed it and posted some findings on your forum related to filtering objects outof the list.

cheers

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks guys for all of your comments. They really help, and I'll get cranking now on the new release :)

I haven't used XSI before, but now that you mentioned it, I'll take a look at its scene explorer and see what I can extract from there.

Once again, thanks. I'm off to reading the comments :P

Marsel

[Kustro]

wow .. very very nice ! :applause:
i am testing it now .. no problems so far
keep up the great work :thumbsup:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks :)

I've just uploaded Beta 1.0.3, where I have fixed all the major bugs reported from 1.0.2

So if you downloaded 1.0.2 two minutes ago, go-back ;)

Peace

[Taoizm]

excellent. I can't say how much Visualboo and I are liking this plug at work. Really, really handy tool.

[visualboo]

Man.... everything I do... everywhere I go... that damn monkey......... he keeps staring at me, those beedie eye's.... those freakishly white teeth. AHHHHHH!!!!



Hi Tao ;)



I just wanted to say on cgtalk that I LOVE this plugin. It's about time we got a decent outliner huh?

Thanks a billion Marsel :beer:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

:) You guys give me too much credit.

Thank you back for your suggestions. We'll make this thing even better.

Wait for complete layers manager in one of next releases. :wavey:

Marsel

[Reality3D]

Godd effort Marsel. And free!! :)

[Taoizm]

Originally posted by Marsel Khadiyev
Wait for complete layers manager in one of next releases. :wavey:


OOOoooo :drool:

[rremzie]

wOw this plugins rocks :buttrock: :buttrock: , can't wait for the layer implentation :drool:

[Joebount]

I gotta a bug ! :)

With Chris Subagio Domelight, when max generate the lights from the domelight, if you select a domelight's light after the rendering of you pic, Max crash.

Really good stuff except that :thumbsup:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Will fix :) (If haven't already)

Downloading Dome Light right now.

Thx for the report!

Marsel

[rremzie]

it would also be nice to create groups withing the explorer, and the possibility to drop materials on objects in the explorer :buttrock: :D

[Taoizm]

Is there a way to get it to remember it's position after shutdown? I'd like it to remember that it should be on my second monitor. (not a big deal but I thought I would ask.) ;)

[rremzie]

a little bug, when you change the name of light, the target name doesn't update, only when you change it manually

[Marsel Khadiyev]

I think I have fixed the Domelight bug. I have implemented the grouping/ungrouping items as well. I'll see if I have time to squeeze in the material drag'n'drop and the INI file I/O (for window position and misc. setting restoration).

I'll release 1.0.4 as soon as I'm done with those. Layers manager will have to wait till 1.0.5 then :P

Thanks for your input guys.

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

1.0.4 is out. Many bugs are fixed, but a few are still there.

Joebount: Could you check if you still have same problems with dome light?

Thx

[visualboo]

oo oooooo... Thanks Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

visualboo just doin' ma job ;)

I hope that monkey with freakishly white teeth isn't acting on your nerves too much. :beer:

[visualboo]

;)

Yeah, he was acting up so I put him in his cage today.

[Matt Leishman]

Hey Boo, too bad you can't put Colby back in his cage too.

Marsel, great work man. I've been looking for a tool like this for a while, so I was pretty happy when Boo pointed me in your direction. Keep up the great work.

[Reality3D]

Load your plugin
Create A primitive(box for example)
Delete it within your plugin
Go to edit/undo
CRASH

----
In general, your plugin does not generate max undo information. So max tryes to undo create the primitive that is already deleted and booom 8)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

sithwarlord: thanks :)

Reality3D: good point. I'll make a note to put undo/redo info in while deleting from inside the tree.

[mouj]

Howdy Marsel !

This script is great, i'm very thankfull that you have done it : )
Really like the ability to filter biped parts, navigate through groups and docking the window in the current viewport; the script itself is very usefull, i don't like Max's layer system that much and SE is very handy to manage mass display changes in complex scenes.

Something that comes to mind: would there be a way to "sort objects" in the list, by object types for instance ?

keep it up :thumbsup:

mouj

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks mouj ;)

If you think Max's layer management sucks, you're in for a treat. Wait for the release of 1.0.5 later today or early tomorrow.

I have implemented a more or less complete layer manager in the new version.

If I have time I'll implement sorting in next release, if not, then definitely in 1.0.6

Marsel

[doasromansdo]

Hi Marsel, I'm X. Cant wait to see 1.0.5 :) :thumbsup: I'm wondering off somewhere .... ttyl

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Allright, 1.0.5 is out, featuring a brand new layer manager. Please check it out and let me know what you think.

Layers in max are a fairly new concept and thus they are very underdeveloped. I have tried my best at making them user-friendly: simply drag-and-drop items from tree to the layer

Anyway, download it here:
Scene Explorer Beta 1.0.5 (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html)

Check out these new screens:

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen5_small.jpg

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen6_small.jpg

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen7_small.jpg

You can get then full-res ones at the site.

Marsel

[Taoizm]

Seriously... everyone here owes you a beer for this kickass plugin. The layers work great.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

:beer:
Thx Tao

Btw. somebody found two major bugs in 1.0.5 (for example doubleclicking layers window will crash max).

Download a quick fix Beta 1.0.5b
http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html

ciao

[visualboo]

wheeeeeeee!!!

[spacefrog]

Marsel:

GREAT little plug you have here !
Let's one wonder why discreet is'nt able to implement such a great thing....

anyway - i'm still on Max 4 and noticed that V1.04 was Max 4 compatible - while V1.05 is'nt any longer Max 4 compatible.
it gets recognized by Max4 but as soon as you press the "Open Scene Explorer" button Max crashes, too sad !

I guess it's the layer's support you implemented - which are Max 5 only.
Would it be possible to do a little Maxversion check and disable the layeroptions for Max 4 and keep the plug compatible ??

thanks for your great effort !!

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks for letting me know spacefrog.

Layers do exist in Max4, but they're extremly primitive. Max 5 layers are allow for a little more control.

In the next release I'll add version-checking code that'll disable all layer capabilities if necessary.

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.0.6 is out with many fixes and new features.

spacefrog: could you please let me know if it still crashes under max 4.x. I think I have fixed that problem, but haven't tested it because I use Max 5.

Marsel

[undoz]

Thanks Marsel for the plugin
this is a must have :beer:

[spacefrog]

Hey Marsel !

Woah ! you are very fast and responsive !

great that you impelemented the version check

tested and works so far,
a small cosmetic issue is that the layer button stays enabled, clicking it crashes Max, you might think of grey the button out.

another thing is that if you use "Dock to the active Viewport" you loose the ability to select another Viewport and maximize the new selected viewport. It always maximizes the scenexplorers viewport
EDIT: the problem only happens if you dock to the topleft viewport, with the other viewports it works - very strange !

greetings ;-)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

undoz: thanks. thats what I'm here for :)

spacefrog: Ahh yeah, I completely forgot about to toggle button. It will be removed (for max4) in next release.

About the docking to viewport: many people have complained about the same issue of maximing viewports. The best solution to that is to make SE dock on the side (resizing all the views accordingly). That is very tricky since SE uses its own GUI.

I'll see if I can improvize. Thx for the report. :thumbsup:

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

1.0.7 is out.

Because it has a new window interface, it might have some new bugs, but benefits outweigh the costs :)

spacefrog: I have found another place where SE could've crashed on R4, now its supposed to be completely compatible.

Marsel

[sireel]

Man this plug is unbeleiveable! Thanks for the contribution Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks Sir Eel.

Check out Beta 1.0.8 available for download.

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html

[Murf_Miser]

I'm gonna have to comment on this plug, amazing, truely amazing! Congrats and keep the updates rolling...

[Marsel Khadiyev]

:beer: I'll try

[Aearon]

right, you deserve at least one cold german beer man :beer:

i love it, this one has found a new home on my second monitor :)

some suggestions:
- the about windows says 1.07 in the 1.08 release
- can you add an option to automatically "zoom extents selected/zoom extents all selected" whenever you select an object in the explorer? i'd love that :D

*edit*

some other things

- in windows explorer, you can rename an already selected file by simply single-clicking it again.. possible?
- if you move around toolbars they don't behave as expected (ie as in most other windows apps), this is a minor one, but maybe you want to take a look at it for a future release
- the main toolbar also has a standard grey background, it doesn't change with the windows/max theme
- when you enter the rename dialog, the name/text should be selected by default, not the rename button.. requires an extra click this way ;)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

fist: thanks for suggestions.
I hyave decided for now to leave the toolbars/colors and work on the core functionality and bugs).

Automatic zoom-extents option sounds like a good idea. I wanted to add explorer-like renaming in the main tree, but:
1. it requires a significant extra chunk of code
2. it behaves weirdly, as you tend to select items often and they popup rename thing all the time.

Rename dialog thing, I've tried to do before but couldn't get it to focus properly. I'll try again.

Cheers.

[Aearon]

hey fast response!

everything you said makes sense, but get that focus issue cleared up ;)

thanks for having such an open ear :thumbsup:

[LFShade]

This thing just keeps looking better and better:thumbsup:

I have noticed something odd, though. When the window is docked into a viewport, you can still resize it! That seems unusual, especially since you can't drag it by the titlebar anymore when it's docked. Maybe you could disable resizing when it's docked into a VP?

Good work, though!

RH

[Aearon]

LFShade, that let's another thing come to mind

to make it more XSI like (:love:), is it possible to make this thing appear in the 'views submenu' next to schematic view and the like?

and.. you should also be able to access that viewport menu by clicking in top-left area of the window IF you implement this (that's also possible in the schematic view/asset browser..)

i hope this doesn't require another UI rewrite ;)
:wip :D

[Marsel Khadiyev]

LFShade: Good point about resizing... I'll see what I can do.

fist: Good point. Rewriting UI is all I do :) I'll see if I can manipulate View-specific quad-menus

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.0.9:

Scene Explorer now accessible from the viewport's extended menu.

Check out more new features on the site.

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html

Marsel

[zarkos]

First of all, I congratulate you for a astonishing plugin, but I have a problem. When I want to maximize toggle (alt+w) it always maximize nested explorer.

http://194.106.190.194/screen1.jpg
http://194.106.190.194/screen2.jpg

Second. wen you activate "make scene explorer stays on top" it realy means it :) even when you are working on other aplication (Photoshop, Internet explorer.....).

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks for letting me know, zarkos. I will have a look at the alt+w problem. I am currently trying to work out a way of docking SE as a panel as well.

By default SE will stay on top of Max window. The always on top option will put it on top of all other windows (if you are reading a web-page, or a help file, for example, it will be always visible).

Thanks for all the support guys.

Marsel

[jtothec]

This has to got to be one of the most useful plugins I've ever found for Max!

Thanks alot and keep up the good work.

:applause:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks jtothec :p

Wait for more exciting features like completely redesigned tree-based Onion-compatible layer manager in one of the next releases.

Please don't hesitate to post any bugs on our forum if you find some.

Cheers.

Marsel

[KaB]

Awesome plugin Marsel!

Good to hear about the Onion compatible manager. I was just about to ask about that. I use Blur's Onion all the time. It would be wonderful to see those functions in this plugin.

Great work so far. Keep it up.

[mouj]

Howdy Marsel !

Just don't want to let this thread die, so i'm bumping shamelessly : )
I must say again that this plug is excellent, actually i don't even know how we managed objects before :scream:
Also, thanks a lot for the sorting options, just what i was expecting (and even more) !

so keep it up, please !!

mouj

[Marsel Khadiyev]

thanks mouj ;)

The plugin is currently under heavy development, I'm trying to see if I can make it go even faster while making the layer manager sync at the same time :)

Let me know of any thing you'd like to see! :cool:

Marsel

[Abraham]

Not a lot to say just a big thanks :) It's true, this tool is really nice and improve at a very fast speed :) Many thanks

[begemot]

Marcel, God bless you for this plugin... at last some usability added to Max...
I just can't express how badly I needed somethig like Scene Explorer

[Marsel Khadiyev]

:) glad to be of service :beer:

[egz]

Hi,

First I'd like to say that this is a great plugin! It really makes my life a lot easier.

I have one suggestion:
I'd like to see click and drag support for hiding and freezing objects, like you have in After effects. Say you have the objects teapot1 through 8 and you want to hide them all, just click the eye on teapot1, keep the mouse button pressed while dragging down until you are over teapot8. As you pass over the other icons they are also changed to the hidden state (not toggled, if some are hidden already, they stay hidden). This would speed up some operations a lot.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Nice suggestion egz.

I'll see what I can do. Just so you know, though, if you select all of your teapots and click on any toggle item, it will toggle all of them.

You can also try experimenting with shift-toggle and alt-toggle functionalities (which work on hierarchy level).

Marsel

[sforsyth]

Man, I've been playing with this for 5 minutes, and it's a life changer almost in the magnitude of meshtools. Well done and fair play to you for doing this.

:thumbsup:

Oh, you probably already know this, but Add layer in Max 4.0 using build 1.1.1 instantly crashes Max.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

thx.

Add layer in Max 4?? I thought I disabled layer support for Max 4 :| ahh you're probably using the menu. Good point !

Wait for the new release later tonight or tomorrow, with re-made layer manager (with full Onion support), and tree update manager.

Marsel

[Abraham]

I really love this tool :D
A suggestion but not sure at all if it's easy or even possible to do so forgive a non programmer if he is askin' for the moon : it would be nice, when selecting an object in the explorer to have a right click menu option like that "edit material" that would launch the material editor with the material of the selected object :) (damn, with such a nice tool you turn us greedy :D)

Ab

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Nothing is impossible, Abraham :)

The feature you suggested is widely discussed and will be implemented a bit later (as soon as core stuff is more or less complete).

Cheers

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Just released Beta 1.1.2. Lots of new features and fixes. Check out the new layermanager. Some screens below:

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen8_small.jpg (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen8.jpg)
http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen9_small.jpg (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/images/screen9.jpg)

Peace.

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

New version 1.1.3 now available.

Download Here (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/)

BUMP :D

[KaB]

AWESOME!!!!! :buttrock: :thumbsup:

Great job Marsel! This is one hell of a wonderful tool. :applause: :applause:

[jeef]

just last week i was thinking to myself that i should try and write some sort scene explorer but my programming is limited... cheers! :D

[DarkMantid]

Man love this plugin BUT sadly it took down our render farm :/ .. we we all had to uninstall it..

But the EMPHERE Utilities section in the titlebar remains ?

anyone know how to get rid of this >?

[jeef]

customize the UI... just delete it?

[mouj]

Marsel, you're too fast, i don't even get time to test anything : )
:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:
Keep it up !

mouj

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks guys! :)

DarkMantid: I'd be very interested to know how it crashes, and would be very happy to fix whatever went wrong.

Is there any specific info you can give me? Max version, SE version, error type, etc. would be very useful.

Cheers :wavey:

Marsel

[DarkMantid]

Hi Marsel,

sadly i got myself into a massive panik when the renderfarm went down, took about 30 mins to get it back up and delete the plugin (as our max's use a shared directory for plugins)

So basically i didnt get a chance to note what blah.cpp module failed .. I may try and simulate the problem locally on my computer and report back if i get a chance to today.

I have been singing you praises to the lads around work .. due to your ferocious support of theis plugin ,,,, keep up the good work !!!

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks DarkMantid.

Thankfully I get fewer and fewer crash reports (most usually Max 4 related), thats why now every bug is of a huge importance.

If you'd be able to track that one down, that would be great.

Also let me know if there are any features you want/need!

Marsel

[DarkMantid]

Originally posted by Marsel Khadiyev
Thanks guys! :)

DarkMantid: I'd be very interested to know how it crashes, and would be very happy to fix whatever went wrong.

Is there any specific info you can give me? Max version, SE version, error type, etc. would be very useful.

Cheers :wavey:

Marsel

Hi Marsel I partially remember now that the crash occured on a newtwork render Max 5.1 (sp) " The error was somthing along the lines of "An error was found in bitarray.cpp"

It "may" have not been your plugin that caused this .. but circumstances did point towards it

[Marsel Khadiyev]

bitarray.cpp eh? :)

There are a couple of things that puzzle me in that case. First is that SE doesn't handle any rendering callbacks, so I don't see any way it could crash specifically during rendering.

Second is that it is in a full release mode, which means that it shouldn't give assertions (like "Error occured in something.cpp on line blah"), but rather neatly crash.

Maybe I am wrong, and in that case it would be great to find out why, but in any case, thanks for letting me know !

Regards.

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.1.4 released. After spending 2 days implementing the new backbone code for SE, it turned out to be almost 1.5 times as slow, so I will keep the old one for now. :) However I think this one has the biggest changed feature-set yet.

- Added "Edit material..." right-click menu option that opens material editor with current object's

material (note: option is only displayed when an item has a material)
- Added selection filter that only filters objects that are currently selected and keeps them in SE window

as long as they exist and the filter isn't turned off
- Added wildcard search engine (supports both Unix-style * and ? characters)
- Filters now applied to both- main tree and the layer manager. Note: this can be turned off in settings
- Added status-bar info on object's name, material name, and polycount
- Implemented better middle-button scrolling algorithm (flickerless)
- Added select-by layer and object selection in layers, as well as an option to toggle this feature on and

off
- Added "Group to point helper" right-click menu option that creates a point helper and groups selected

objects to it (Maya style)
- Fix: Faster selection in SE
- Fix: The information floating toolbar is now dockable to the left vertical toolbar
- Fix: Unhiding/unfreezing objects during hide/freeze filter will add those objects to se
- Fix: Automatic update after material assignment
- Fix: Crash on item drag out of SE widnow
- Added properties menu option

[LFShade]

I think there's a way in Maya to just show a set of wanted objects in the list. It's really helpful for narrowing the list down to just the control set for a character, for instance. Is there currently a way to do that in SE without freezing or hiding objects? If not, then maybe you could consider a way to filter by a pick list. Just a thought:)

RH

[Marsel Khadiyev]

THis is one of the new features of 1.1.4

Select your objects, then click the "Filter selection" toolbar button, and voila !

I haven't tested it extensively, as I have just added it, but it seems to do the job.

[KaB]

Hey Marsel, found a bug.

Seems that 1.1.4 crashes VRay Distributed Rendering Spawner. Its not that big of a deal but I do have to take the plugin out of my plugin folder before I start rendering.

Just reporting it.

Thanks

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks KaB,

it appears 1.1.4 is erroneous in Max 4 and Max 5. I will investigate into this today, and will hopefully release a stable build.

I will also try to test on VRay.

Marsel

[Aearon]

hey marsel, 1.14 makes my max crash on startup with the "An error occured..." message. i'm using 5.1

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Hey Kai,

are you using 1.1.4 or 1.1.4b? I have released a patch that fixes the crash problem about an hour ago.

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/files/e_se_b114b.zip

Cheers

Marsel

[jeef]

i havnt had a chance to really use this plugin yet, but i have had a play...

i thought about asking this but feel it would almost be shifting your project into a different direction, but nonetheless ill say what ive got to say :)

is it possible to add the objects controllers?
where im getting with this is basicly using the scene explorer for animation control...

anyway, great work thus far :thumbsup:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

There are plans to add constraint display as well as the controller display in the future (yes, there is an agenda :) )

It certainly is possible, but will require some re-ordering of things. I will keep this in mind, as it has been suggested by a couple of other people as well.

Marsel

[jeef]

:buttrock:

[LFShade]

You know, Marsel, what jeef asks might be well outside of the scope of what you had planned for SE. But it really is a novel idea. The upcoming release of Max6 will offer a much-improved schematic view that will address the issues of easily accessing controller/dependency info, but it seems like viewing and editing this info would also be a natural extension to the UI of SE. Think about it, that's all I ask:)

RH

[RichardB]

Marsel

What can I say?

I've been using your plug-in mainly for Layer Management: your plug-in does exactly what I want, and what I've been trying to work out how to do in Max.

It's intuitive: I've read the Max files on Layer Management a dozen times and I still can't work the one it ships with: I took one look at your plug and instantly knew what to do and how.

I guess Discreet will be calling you re: Max 7

:)

Thank you, excellent plug.

Rb

[jeef]

to tell the truth, i sorta semi got the idea from watching making ofs/// like shrek and all the pixar films... they have that table of controllers and their values, you click on the number and drag to change the value... looks like a real tidy way of keeping all your animatable controllers in one place... :applause:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks Richard :) Your support is my fuel.

LFShade: Yes, Max6 does seem offer a better schematic view but some of the problems of schematic view arize in its size on screen (it takes up half of my monitor if I want to actually manage something).

Speaking of schematic views... I think I will try to pick up that schematic material editor idea. I've been studying Bobo's Treematograph and Darktree's stuff and think that their features (along with many new ones) would make a pretty cool plugin.

I've also studied the schematic view technology, and think it'll be a good idea to write things from scratch.

I'm still 100% on SE though ! :cool:

Marsel

[Aearon]

1.14b fixed the problem :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Ok, I am a little confused about what you guys need/want with the controllers exactly.

For example, there would be a control view for each object, which would be opened and which would have a transform controller and visibility controller.

The transform controller would then go into position, rotation, scale, roll, etc.

This seems too much like the track-view though, or is this what you want? Help on the subject would be greatly appreciated as I'm working on this right now :)

Marsel

[LFShade]

I can only speak for myself, here. I would just like the ability to access basic controller tracks like transform, modifier, and visibility, and be able to bring up the controllers' property dialogs. It would also be nice to be able to see the controller dependency, but not strictly necessary. However you can think of to implement that would be fine. I could explain further, but it's going to take a bit of thought and maybe some pictures:)


RH

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Sounds doable. I will try to hack something together for next release just so you and other people can take a look and point me in the right direction.

Cheers.

Marsel

[jeef]

before i mention my opinion on your delima id first like to say that scene explorer makes it SOO easy to reorganise my links! awsome! :beer:

your delima: i will speak for myself also, personaly, i was hopping for the controllers to be listed almost like in a spreadsheet, so i could see (within the filtered objects) the values of the controllers i want to animate, without having to select a dummy, then animate its Z value... would be neat if i could just click the number abd drag up (like a spinner) to increase it... BIG thing being without the need to select different objects, there would just be a list of the dummies im going to animate and the values (in some cases maybe x, y and z position)

hope that helps give you at least an idea of what one person is thinking :blush:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Hmm, so let me get this straight.

jeef: You want one spreadsheet (grid)- style structure that would display ALL of the controllers among the objects currently present in SE. All of these controllers would be on the same level (ie. position controller and its float controllers for X,Y,Z would lie on the same column). Then each "leaf" controller (the controller that doesn't have any sub-controllers) would have a spinner button that you can drag to change the value.

LFShade: You want a separate expand/collapse button for each item that, when expanded, would bring out item's transform, visibility, modifiers controllers organized in a hierarchy. (This is what I'm working on now).

Perhaps both these features could co-exist with the option of either one being toggles on and off. Or maybe there should be a unified solution that would fit both proposed interfaces?

In any case, I'll be happy to implement both suggestions as long as they're possible :)

Marsel

[LFShade]

Going with a spreadsheet-like layout, or just an extra column off to the right of the list for values, would be fine. I like the idea of being able to access/edit the controller values, and I'll be satisfied as long as I can also use this interface to change and edit controller types as well.

RH

[jeef]

im just trying to think how a good way to integrate it would be... without messing up what youve done thus far :)

i think (uh-oh), going slightly away from "spreadsheet" idea, maybe there could be a seperate column and you can drag controllers into it (or add them or whatever?) and that can be your "controller list" im not sure how you would do this, maybe it would setup wire params to teh spinners automaticly??

was almost thinking something like the Attributes Holder but without the need to select the holder... the spinners/sliders would just be there...

have you used Attributes Holder?

(im still finding SE awsome for setting up links ;))

[Marsel Khadiyev]

The problem with the spreadsheet layout is that it would require a new window and would take up more space. And besides, that wouldn't very very 'integrated' and consistent with the rest of the interface.

What I was doing thus far, is creating a separate hierarchy for every item that could contain all of the parameters.

I have used attribute holders, and they again would bring up the inconsistency issue.

I will let you know when I release the next version so you could see what I mean.

Marsel

[Aearon]

i have to agree with Marsel... i also think this would be a major shift of focus, plus it would really clutter up the display. imho a well-done spreadsheat deserves a seperate script (hint hint) :wip:

[LFShade]

I agree with Marsel also. So what I'm suggesting is (if possible) a treeview with an extra column off to the right. When an object's tree is expanded, there could be a controllers entry under that, and each controller could have its value displayed in the righthand column. Right-clicking a controller could provide a context menu to let you view the controller properties, assign a new controller, etc.

Again, failing this, I'd really just like to see the ability to assign controllers and edit their properties, and not necessarily manipulate their values. Whatever works!

RH

[jeef]

i also think this would be a major shift of focus
this is what i was worried about...

well, i guess ill just wait to see what you release and comment on that... no matter what you do with the controllers its still an awsome plugin ;)

[credmond]

What about building into the scene explorer a listing of the controllers and then have it provide a link to, let's say, a track view or dope sheet or controller property box that has been specially configured based on that selection (with only that object and that controller displayed and everything ready for editing)?

This makes the scene explorer a centralized hub for getting to other editors, rather than trying to build into the scene explorer functionality that overlaps with other editors and that bloats scene explorer or blurs its purpose. What I want from scene explorer is a tool that lets me navigate a max scene via a tree layout and get to the other editors through that interface.

Sort of like along the line of what the "Edit Material" function in Scene explorer does now.

The spread sheet controller view is a great idea, just best I think developed separately and then hooked onto scene explorer when it has been fully thought out and developed.

Just my 2 cents

[Aearon]

well LFShade's idea seems workable though...maybe you could just put another symbol next to the objects, which would open the controller settings at the click of a button, or another right click menu item. in any case i think this feature should be optional (esp the column for editing values).. most people people who just use SE to organize their scenes could probably care less about more stuff cluttering the view

as always just my humble opinion :)

[LFShade]

credmond-
That's what I was suggesting - SE should bring up the built-in controller property dialogs rather than implementing its own. I just think SE would be a cool place to access this stuff from:)

RH

[jeef]

on a more SE related note, is it possible to show/hide/freeze/unfreeze children?

personaly i would have thought if the tree was collapsed hitting show/hide would show/hide the children as well, but if it was expanded it would only show/hide that object

just a thought? :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

jeef: Have you played around with Shift+click and Alt+click on the visibility/freeze icons? You could also select all children (from menu) and click on one of the vis icons.

About the controllers: I am afraid implementing a separate column in tree view would do more bad than good. On the other note I am experimenting with a separate hierarchy with mixed results. The best I can do is make a hierarchy close automatically when it loses focus for now.

You'll see what I mean in next release.

Cheers. :P

Marsel

[jeef]

*slaps head*
cheers bud :buttrock:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.1.5 released (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html)

fist, jeep, LFShade: I have tried many different approaches to what you guys suggested and had to re-write the whole thing 4 or 5 times to get something even remotely usable.

Check it out, let me know what you think.

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

jeep=jeef :beer: its so hard to edit posts on this forum

[jeef]

hah ;)

damn, re-write the whole thing?
downloading now, im sure youve got something good going either way ;)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Well, not the whole plugin, but the controller display part of it :)

I've had some negative reactions to it so far (with the namechange and all), it'd be good to hear your opinion.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

PS: credmond I somehow overlooked your post ! In any case, I think you're right, I will not try to reproduce the behaviour of existing tools, I will try to either give access to them or expand their functionality.

Thx for putting your 2 cents in :)

[Aearon]

hey marsel.. don't forget to tell people to delete the old sceneexplorer.dlu ;)

max will spit out a lot of cryptic error messages if you don't

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Ahh... good point. This renaming thing is driving me crazy ! :)

[Aearon]

the new name kinda makes sense though.. with all the added features :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Yup, I guess. It was either "Scene Manager" or "Billinear Heterostedasticity Autonomous Node Interpolator"... I hope I made the right choice :D

[LFShade]

I like it...and I don't. The way you've implemented controller access is good enough, but I fail to see the necessity or advantage of keeping two separate treeviews. What's the purpose of the bottom treeview? It makes the interface seem a little strange, especially since resizing the upper half can obscure parts of the toolbar in its default layout.

I also found a couple of bugs. When you expand the "Parameters > paramblock" item, then double-click on any of the parameters, Max will crash. Also, when SM loses focus the controller section collapses. This happens even when you're just task-switching to another application. I don't think that's a desired behavior; at least that's not what I would expect to happen. Also, there's one item in the contoller type list (on the right-click menu) labeled something like "missing animation controller." It will let you assign it as the controller for a channel, though I'm not sure what the results are and it appears to have no properties. That's all the bugs I've got for now.

The name change thing doesn't bug me at all, though you'll definitely want to make a note about the removal of the old plugin before installing this one:)

Good work on the controller access so far, I think it could just use some polishing. I look forward to more updates!


RH

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks LFShade. The controllers right now are just a concept, they still need a lot of development and fine-tuning.

I will try to use your comments as a blueprint for next release. Should I ditch the separate tree thing alltogether and simply make a pop-up window for controllers?

I am not sure if I can filter out the "missing" controllers (Max can be very weird at times), but I'll try anyway !

Cheers.

[LFShade]

Wait a minute. Nevermind my comment about the separate tree view, I forgot that the bottom half was the layer manager:blush: I like things the way they are in this version, if you can just iron out the bugs (such as the tree collapsing when SM loses focus). There may be little issues that I (or others) won't notice until I'm actually using the plugin rather than just testing it out.

Excellent so far:thumbsup:

RH

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Ok, I'll make the tree stay open if you alick away in Max. Unfortunately I have to make it collapse once you a- start scrolling in SM, b- want to open controllers tree for another item. Is that ok, or should I re-implement it and think of ways of leaving it open?

Marsel

[LFShade]

Expanding/selecting another item could be a valid reason for collapsing the previous tree, but simply clicking away or switching tasks shouldn't cause a collapse.

RH

[jeef]

well, i really like it so far but i dont know about the current angle with the controllers... it reminds me of dope/curve editor and i dont like the dope/curve editor very much...

my original thoughts were that youd be able to cluster the needed controllers only... but still think this moves away from your original intentions... :hmm:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

jeef: this brings out a good point.

I was also going to put filters on the controller items. For example you could only leave the items that actually have controllers assigned. Or you could only leave float-controllers, or only point-3 controllers etc.

Maybe even an option to leave only the controllers that can be edited or replaced, or only the ones that have a 'properties' dialog (although I don't think its possible yet).

Stuff like this should simplify your life hopefully :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.1.6:
- Added filter by layer
- Fix: Filter selection now updates interactively
- Fix: Crash in dataview on double-click
- Added icons for different controllers
- Removed 'missing' controllers from RC menu
- Fix: added properties arrow to default layer
- Groups now stay open on refresh, with an option to stay closed in settings panel
- More space added to the layer panel's top (for easier dragging/resizing)
- Added filters to main menu
- Fix: Selected items stay selected after refresh

Direct link (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html)

[jeef]

ah, that version fixed a couple of things... didnt comment cause i knew you were still working on it ;)

one thing ive still noticed is collapsing a tree within the controllers doesnt re-size the tree, eg: any objects below wont "shift up" unless you actually collapse the object...

if i were to do this my way, as in this is just my opinion, from what you have now, i would have a small maybe dialog or just divide the current window and i could drag a controller to it and display its value and a spinner/slider so i could have a list of specific controllers... just like attributes holder

i dont know how you would save such a list tho unless you used a seperate "controller list" file that you saved manually...

but thats just what i was thinking :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

I see what you're saying. Interesting idea, I'll give it a shot in a couple of versions.

It would take a big chunk of code to make the controller tree resize, 'm not really sure if resizing is that importabt right now, as you can scroll inside it. Although if it really bugs you I can give it a shot.

Marsel

[jeef]

nah, doesnt bug me at all... ;)

yeh, i realse its quite a different thing to do with the controllers... thats just what was on my mind ;)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Keep these ideas coming ! :)

I think a good way of organizing controllers would be by sorting them, like you mentioned. I also want to implement controller search algorithm, so you cvould, for example, only find all of the position float controllers from a specified list of objects. That has been requested before, I just never realized SM would get to the stage where there would be an excuse to implement it :cool:

Marsel

[drunkirishmic]

someone hire this guy, the dedication is pouring out of every orrifice!

looks fantastic, i am checkin it out right now

[SeaQuake]

First off, thanks a lot Marsel for this very useful plugin.

I like it very much, but I have a little comment on layers, since it's the part of the plugin that I use the most. I understand that when I double-click on a layer, it becomes highlighted, and therefore becomes the active layer. Thefore whenever I create a new object, it will be already part of that layer. The problem is that when this happens (or whenever I hit Refresh), all the layers lose their Inheritance (visibility, color and the rest) options, so I have to re-enter them manually, which is quite frustrating.

I may be doing something wrong (or missing to activate a setting), but if it were a bug, I hope it gets fixed.

Again thanks a lot for your efforts.

Regards

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks drunkirishmic, SeaQuake :)

SeaQuake: Thanks for pointing this out, it is indeed a workflow bug (since I had to improvize with the enheritance options). I will try to fix this is one of next releases.

One thing to ease your mind: even if it doesn't show that the objects inherit from layers, the objects actually still do, so you don't really lose any properties of layers.

Cheers.

Marsel

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.1.7:
- Added interactive spinners to all float-controllers for fast manipulation of data inside dataview
- Fix: Major crash fix when opening dataview after using it in another scene
- Fix: On group hide/freeze toggle, all nested groups are toggled as well
- Fix: Rotate icon displayed instead of scale icon in controller view
- Closed groups now have a square around the icon, open groups don't
- Grouped objects now highlighted with yellow color (to distinguish between linked objects)
- Max's UI colors are adopted for main window face, tree-background and tree text colors
- Added an option to auto-detect layer properties after layer manager is refreshed (ie. inherit display, inherit render, etc.)

Direct Link (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html)

[jeef]

yes! those spinners are EXCATLY what i was thinking of!! :buttrock: :buttrock:

now if they updated the display onChange that would be spot on! :thumbsup:

other thing i noticed, they dont update when you scrub the time... dont know what your intentions are yet tho?

awsome update man :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Ahh yes, I forgot to add timeslider handler (will do in next release). I will probably also put an option for that constant update (maybe some people wil very large scenes would prefer it off).

Glad you liked it :)

Marsel

[SeaQuake]

Hi Marsel

The Refresh problem with layers seems to be gone, but there is still another problem. Let's say that I have 3 layers: BOXES, SPHERES and CYLINDERS. Now I will highlight CYLINDER to make it the active layer. Now if I create a new cylinder, it will be added to that layer, BUT, if I hide that layer, the new cylinder will NOT hide with the others UNLESS I uncheck inherit visibility and reactivate it.

Another thing, if I have no layers in a scene (just the World layer), if I toggle its visibility, nothing happens. I would have expected to hide all the objects in that layer.

I like the controller values and spinner, but maybe would have like to type-in a value on d-click.

I would also like to be able to rename a lyer by pressing F2, instead of having to r-click->Rename.

Thanks again, and I hope I am not being too picky.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

No probs SeaQuake, those are all good points.

I'll fix the spinners and do a temp fix on layers. Keep em coming :)

Marsel

[Jed]

These spinners are really cool but since you can't see the display on change and there is no undo function (ctrl+z doesn't work right ?), I find it still a bit limited.
I'm currently working on a very large scene with lots of instanced geometry. One filter I would like to see implemented is ab instance filter, where only one instance of a particular object would show in the list. That would make it really useful on instanced lights too.

Also, bear with me if I haven't read the whole thread, but is it still incompatible with Dave Humphries ' Onion layer system ?

Still, that program has come a very long way since I started using it a few weeks ago. You're doing a great job, Marsel. Keep it up .

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Yeah, spinners so far are just a concept (in active development). I will add a lot more features to them for next couple of releases.

Instanced objects are a little difficult to detect, but I could make an algorithm that 'scans' the scene for duplicated (and thus instanced) geometry. Good idea.

Onion layer system is compatible. All onion group data is read and written inside SM, so loading Onion scenes should be easy and intuitive. I haven't implemented Onion material system as I am planning on making a more improved one later on.

We are currently in a process of writing help for SM (since there are too many features to remember now), so hopefully that will aid people in the future.

Thx for feedback Jed.

Marsel

[Jed]

Yea what I meant by non compatible is that SM reads the onion layer data, but the hide/unhide function for layers in SM is not working (for layers created through the onion at least).
Or am I doing something wrong ?

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Make sure that you have the "Inherit display" etc. right-click options set for the layer that you are trying to hide/freeze.

By deafult in Max 5.1 all objects use their own properties (not the layer's).

[Jed]

Oh cooooool, it's working now. Hey I'm getting addicted to that manager :) Great job Marsel.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

I'm glad you're enjoying it Jed. More is coming ! :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Beta 1.1.8 released

- Fixed l-button inside dataview crash
- Added interactive update while dragging spinners
- Fix: Dataview tree now resizes on expand/collapse of items inside it
- Added all common SE-Tree properties to Dataview trees (such as middle-buttom panning and dynamic grad'n'drop

abilities for future versions)
- Added object parameter list to the dataview
- Added better dataview spinner behaviour:
*right click resets the value to 0.0
*double click pops up manual enter prompt
*dynamic increment (increment value depends on the initial value of the spinner)
*multiple editing (select more than one items with spinners and drag-change all at the same time)
- Added undo to dataview spinners
- Fix: Crash on open files that have missing bitmap/world unit change dialog
- Added 'Invert selection' right-click menu option
- Added undo to layer delete (refresh required)

Direct Link (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html)

[jeef]

very nice, i like the fix on the tree resize and dynamic update with changing the spinner :)

i did notice one crash, i made sure i did it several times to figure excatly (or close enough) what was causing it:

when im adjusting a spinner, if i change my mind i normly, while holding left mouse, i press right mouse, which brings up rc-menu, and then i just click away... i noticed if, while adjusting the spinner, i rc inside the controller 'section' it brings up the controller menu, thats fine, but if i right clicked outside that controller section it brought up no menu, also, after that, ive let go of all buttons and the spinner still goes with the mouse... then when i click again the trees collapse and clicking again caused max to crash (it all just dissapeared)

hope i made that one clear? :)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Hmm, I'll try to follow your steps to reproduce this crash, I'll let you know if I did. :)

Marsel

[Abraham]

Hum, the more I use your tool, the more I like it :D I wish I would have critics or ideas for new features but right now I don't, so, at least thank you very much :)

Ab

[KiboOst]

Hi, just installed it and seem nice. Just a bug found : set sm as viewport (right clic, extended, esphere), then open another max scene, crash (reproduceable each time). max5.1 sp1 maxtreme winxp.

Great piece of software anyway :beer:

Kib

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Abraham: I'm glad you're liking it.

KiboOst: cool, thx for letting me know. That anomaly will be terminated immediately :)

Marsel

[shimra]

thanks alot:applause:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

:)

Beta 1.1.9:

- Fix: Fixed a couple of major crashes. First happened on opening a scene when SM is docked. Second happened on opening/resetting a scene requiring 'Obsolete format' dialog.
- Re-enabled 'Use Max's GUI colors' option- now when turned off, will use SM's native colors
- Further enhanced dataview spinner behaviour:
* Ctrl increments the change, alt decrements the change
* Single click for edit mode, drag for spin mode
- Fix: On node delete datatree for that node now automatically closes
- Added option to turn off the datatree's auto-sizing algorithm (note: datatree now will scroll with the rest of SM's items)
- Added an option to have all items auto-expand on refresh
- Added an option for a confirmation request before linking is performed through drag'n'drop
- Removed unnecesarry ParamBlock2 structures from datatree

Direct Link (http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html)

[jeef]

i feel like im being selfish and flooding you a bit here, if so just tell me ;)

-i was able to reproduce that error still (by accident actually)
-one thing i noticed was that the custom atributes values didnt show in the tree
-awsome, i just found that you can drag objects from the list and into the layer, much easier seeings i had tons of objects all linked and everything and i didnt want to pick the item in the layers list (list too long) and seeings is was at the top of the object list.. sweet :thumbsup:

spinners much nicer, was actually going to sugest the ctrl+alt combos... you obviosly waay ahread of us ;)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

jeef,

ahh yeah, the error ! I somehow overlooked that post and thus forgot to fix it. I'm putting it on my todo list as I write this.

I'll have to look deeper to figure out why cust. attributes aren't there, I'm sure its shouldn't be hard.

I'm planning on adding many more custom controls to the tree (ie. checkboxes, buttons, etc.) for all different object params and such. I'm hoping to pick off where Max's GUI has left off.

I see you too have discovered the layer d'n'd :)

Great feedback, keep it coming!

Marsel

[MarkusB]

Hi Marsel,

GREAT WORK MAN !!!!!! :thumbsup:

I just downloaded your scene manager and i am very impressed. This tool is really great.

If i will find a bug, I let you know ;) ... hehe

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Cheers ! :beer:

Marsel

[rlph.]

I just wanted to say big THANK YOU to Marsel for making this sweet scene explorer and generously releasing it for free! It makes my life so much easier and it has saved me from hours of work... :beer: :applause:

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks rlph. :)

The new version is on its way and is being rigorously tested in several productions for past few weeks and as we speak.

Just want to let you know that I'm still working on it, just on a higher level.

Cheers.

Marsel

[visualboo]

*eexxxcellent*
-Mr Burns

[zarkos]

Originally posted by Marsel Khadiyev
Thanks rlph. :)
Just want to let you know that I'm still working on it, just on a higher level.

Ohh great! I was wondering what happened with it.

[Marsel Khadiyev]

We've just released an update for SceneManager.

This is the first non-beta version. It has been tested extensively and modified in many ways such that it is both comfortable to use, and is robust and error-free.

Our main goal is to make SM as stable as possible and make it as complete al possible. That is why some of the features had to be removed or turned off (such as advanced search and datatree). We will work on them as time goes and release them when they're error free and robust.

Anyway, get the latest version (V1.0) for Max R4/5 and Max R6 at:

http://www.ibmr.net/SceneExplorer/download.html

Thanks for your patience and great support. Continue posting your wishes as we are still looking for useful suggestions for new versions.

[Schwinnz]

I really had to post a big THANK YOU !!!

:beer:

This scene manager is REALLY useful ! :)

[Atog]

thank you Marsel, you bring to us what we need and we wanted for a long time from discreet, your scene manager is very well made, very usefull, stable, in one word it looks like perfect (imho, it doesn't "look like", IT's perfect). I think it will become a must-to-have script. if i have some idea for making it better, i will give you, but i must admit that it seem difficult :thumbsup:
I'm waiting your next max plugins, but anyway, take your time and bring us the best you can do ;)

[Marsel Khadiyev]

Thanks Schwinnz and Atog for replies.

One other thing new to this release is the extensive help file by Chris, which captures all of the functionality of SM and explains all the new features in detail.

Marsel

[Chris Thomas]

Yeah guys, to follow up on Marsel's comments. Please report any bugs that you find to here..

ibmrnet@ibmr.net

with

SM_BUGS

as your subject. Please be as clear as possible on your bugs and include steps that will always result in the bug manifesting if possible. Failing that just be as clear as possible, the more info you provide, the easier it is for Marsel to track the little critters down. Also, if you have issues getting SM to even work (there have been some) please give us info on what version for Max your using and any 3rd party plugins, plus info on your OS and service packs.

Also please let me know if you find any issues with the help file i.e. info that is wrong or even unclear, maybe you think an area could have more info. Let me know and I'll try and see to these issues.

Send SM help mails to

SM_HELP@christopher-thomas.co.uk

Cheers

Chris Thomas

[cecofuli]

Greate, but i have 3ds max 7.5 installed and don't load the plug. I have installed te dll file . work only the 3ds max 6.0 version.

[cecofuli]

And in the 3ds max 6.0 version the layer aren't in the correct alphabetical order.

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