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View Full Version : CG animation schools to rich for my blood


Duhjin
03-07-2009, 05:05 AM
Is there such a School that is can teach me the skillz to put out good looking work and not empty my pockets at the same time? Also are there any good CG animation schools in N.Y. ?


thanks

KrzysztofFus
03-08-2009, 08:11 AM
SVA in NYC is the best CG school in the North East. And a large number of their graduating class get jobs in the Industry.

SVA is probably the 3rd best school for visual effects for film.

SVA is rated #13 in Computer Animation WorldWide

Plus, there are hundreds of studios now in the Northeast that do Commercial Work.
Job prospects are very high.

One setback is that tuition is 25k a year.

Boone
03-08-2009, 11:25 AM
Or how about you get off your own ass and do it yourself?

Go and get some books, dvds, software etc and just do it yourself. With The Animator's Survival Kit you have enough to get practicing with.

Get Blender, TrueSpace, Maya PLE, Houdini Apprentice, Messiah - or whatever - and go for it. True, you'll spend the first month or so trying to figure out the interface, but if you have a manual then its not exactly rocket science is it...

I know this is like a slap in the face, but the best thing for you right now is to just do it.

anobrin
03-08-2009, 12:44 PM
Agreed!
The web is like a FREE school if you are wiling to look for the resources
and USE them

Duhjin
03-08-2009, 05:11 PM
did it, done it, doing it now. I understand if you got the skillz you should be able to get a job, I'm working on it. And the tone in your type sounds like you can learn everything by yourself. And you make it seem like school is pointless, or at most not worth $40.000. I do somewhat agree but I would like to work with professionals and learn side by side with them. However the question still stands. Are there any good schools that wont cost me an arm and a leg to go to, and are there any good schools in N.Y... I would love to hear from people that made it into the business and how they did it. If you dont mind shearing your stories with the future competition =P thanks

LucentDreams
03-08-2009, 05:19 PM
you get what you pay for and any decent school is going to cost a good penny. Even a lot of ones I'd stay far away form will cost a fair bit too.

The only other serious option is to just study yourself, and post your works for critiques from other skilled people, but it will be a slower and more difficult road, and you may develop bad habits and such. I do think learning on your own is really viable route for CG but if your concerned with getting up to snuff fast and getting out there a good school will be worth it.

Its not about the degree or diploma at the end either, so don't concern yourself with what program will get you a BA or anything like that, concern yourself with schools that will cover what you need in an appropriate length of time with instructors who have relevant experience in the industry. This will cut out most standard institutions such as public colleges and universities. Look at schools that studios recommend on their sites. Don't go to a school thinking its half the price or even less and think it will get you the right kind of training.

Boone
03-08-2009, 08:53 PM
did it, done it, doing it now. I understand if you got the skillz you should be able to get a job, I'm working on it. And the tone in your type sounds like you can learn everything by yourself. And you make it seem like school is pointless, or at most not worth $40.000. I do somewhat agree but I would like to work with professionals and learn side by side with them. However the question still stands. Are there any good schools that wont cost me an arm and a leg to go to, and are there any good schools in N.Y... I would love to hear from people that made it into the business and how they did it. If you dont mind shearing your stories with the future competition =P thanks

If you want to work with professionals and learn from them then go to meet ups and events. I've met alot of skilled professionals(yes, even those who actually work on film productions) just by saying "Okay, lets all meet up". If you are willing to listen and take note then someone will take you under their wing. Buying someone a drink and using MSN can go alot further than you think...

Regarding "learn everything by yourself"; with some roles you will require proper training - for example; being a Doctor or a Solider. But for us artists we can be a bit more flexible in how we get our knowledge and experience. Teaching yourself requires a lot of self discipline and dedication, so dont think for a minute that I'm saying that its easy, because its not. There is always going to be a time when you ask others for guidence...

But here is a good start: learn enough to start an animation WIP. Models do not need to be textured and rendering can be simple playblasts. Post it in the WIPs section and you'll usually get good feedback from professionals who know what they are talking about.

Anyway, the best of luck to you.

Geta-Ve
03-08-2009, 10:09 PM
I can tell you one thing. No one will want you if you continually think spelling skills with a zed (z) at the end is OK. It is NOT ok to be intentionally ignorant.

Stormy151
03-08-2009, 10:31 PM
did it, done it, doing it now. I understand if you got the skillz you should be able to get a job, I'm working on it. And the tone in your type sounds like you can learn everything by yourself. And you make it seem like school is pointless, or at most not worth $40.000. I do somewhat agree but I would like to work with professionals and learn side by side with them. However the question still stands. Are there any good schools that wont cost me an arm and a leg to go to, and are there any good schools in N.Y... I would love to hear from people that made it into the business and how they did it. If you dont mind shearing your stories with the future competition =P thanks

I've found that anything "Good" usually isn't "cheap". So how much do you consider not an "arm and a leg"?

Duhjin
03-08-2009, 10:50 PM
I can tell you one thing. No one will want you if you continually think spelling skills with a zed (z) at the end is OK. It is NOT ok to be intentionally ignorant.


I didnít know I had to have such proper technical writing SKILLS when writing in forums. I thought forums are a place of playful writing. . Also should I use APA style? Is it ok to put lol? Or should I spell it out, laughing out loudÖ As you could have guessed Iím just fooling around and busting your chops and I hope you are too. If I knew spelling skills with a Z would make you that upset I would have never done it. Sorry for upsetting you. And thanks for your help it will be very useful in the future.

Thanks Duhjin

Duhjin
03-08-2009, 11:08 PM
I've found that anything "Good" usually isn't "cheap". So how much do you consider not an "arm and a leg"?



Not having a lot of money I just want to make sure I'm making the right decisions for myself. maybe I'm better off continuing the path I'm on. But its so slow and I just want to be around it and involved in the industry 24/7 first things first I know I have to put together my demo reel and I guess I'll see were that takes me.

I would still love to hear how people broke into the industry if you feel like shearing.

ThE_JacO
03-08-2009, 11:17 PM
I would still love to hear how people broke into the industry if you feel like shearing.
People already shared that countless times in past threads.
The #1 mad skill you should come to terms with for self-teaching is using the search button in sites like this, and taking advantage of resources like www.google.com :)

Duhjin
03-08-2009, 11:56 PM
People already shared that countless times in past threads.
The #1 mad skill you should come to terms with for self-teaching is using the search button in sites like this, and taking advantage of resources like www.google.com (http://www.google.com) :)

Your a 100% right... I'm on it. Thanks everyone for helping me out.

DanielWray
03-09-2009, 12:05 AM
Im not sure how it works in the USA, but over here, alot of the time students in the Uk can get help with paying for universities etc.

Ok, most people will say, dont go to a university or college that doesnt have much wieght behind, well i say take that with a pinch of salt.

There are two ways, learn at home, or learn at college/ university.

If you decide to go to a college or university and get a diploma or degree, you'll have 3 years of access to instant feedback from lecturers, aswell as the resources offered by the college etc, also they will teach you things, that perhaps you wouldnt study when learning by yourself, such as how to manage projects and money, how to set up small studios/ business, how to interact with clients and a whole host of other various topics.

Even if they dont teach the fundamentals, that' something you can learn at home, along with studying at college/ uni. you also have 2/3 years of developing your skills and producing a demo reel that will be extremley polished.

ThE_JacO
03-09-2009, 12:32 AM
Your a 100% right... I'm on it. Thanks everyone for helping me out.
You seem to at least be starting with the right foot when it comes to handling criticism.
If you can keep it up when it comes to your work, and you're focused and self-motivated enough in your work, you'll do just fine with the self-teaching path.
Probably more people than not that are in positions of any relevance in the games and vfx industries right now haven't received related high education, if any education at all some times.

As trite as it sounds, if you're from a first world country, of average or better intelligence, and have no visa or legal issues, it's entirely and solely up to you and your dedication whether you'll succeed in getting a job in this field or not.

Geta-Ve
03-09-2009, 04:39 AM
I didnít know I had to have such proper technical writing SKILLS when writing in forums. I thought forums are a place of playful writing. . Also should I use APA style? Is it ok to put lol? Or should I spell it out, laughing out loudÖ As you could have guessed Iím just fooling around and busting your chops and I hope you are too. If I knew spelling skills with a Z would make you that upset I would have never done it. Sorry for upsetting you. And thanks for your help it will be very useful in the future.

If you can spell properly why would you choose not to? 'lol' is an acronym and a short hand for an emotion not easily expressed on the internet. Using a 'z' where an 's' should clearly go is not cute or humourous. In fact, to be quite frank with you, your post lost all credibility with me personally after I saw your version of 'skills'. It is akin to young 'thugs' or 'gangsta's' calling you 'dog' and 'home boy', who actually takes these people seriously?

anobrin
03-09-2009, 11:09 AM
If you can spell properly why would you choose not to? 'lol' is an acronym and a short hand for an emotion not easily expressed on the internet. Using a 'z' where an 's' should clearly go is not cute or humourous. In fact, to be quite frank with you, your post lost all credibility with me personally after I saw your version of 'skills'. It is akin to young 'thugs' or 'gangsta's' calling you 'dog' and 'home boy', who actually takes these people seriously?


I agree completely

philnolan3d
03-09-2009, 12:48 PM
Depends on what you mean by cheap. For example I started at University of The Arts (http://www.uarts.edu)as an animation major that was $18k per year for 4 years. I left there and went to The DAVE School (http://www.daveschool.com), which turned out to be a far better experience. DAVE was $25k (when I went, idk now), but it was only one year so far less over all.

You can only learn so much on the internet. You may learn technically how to use the tools, but at a school you gain SO much more from sharing ideas with others and working as part of a team. Studios will want to know that you play well with others. You may be a good artist but you're useless to them if you can't follow direction or work well on a team. I don't know about other schools but DAVE was set up like a studio. You went in and worked with the same people 5 hours a day 5 days a week. Everyone works together to share ideas and tips / tricks. Before it's over the whole class works together on one big film for a real client.

Boone
03-09-2009, 01:00 PM
Re: Duhjin.

Whilst Geta-Ve is making a bit of a mountain out of a mole-hill, I will just point out that there are employers who do look at this site. Sure, theres no harm in being yourself and playful but just keep in mind that employers might not be impressed by someone using such "slang".

LOL, back in school I once wrote "...Jesus, being a nice geezer, said to..." and got bollocked infront of the whole class. For me and my friends it was hilarious, but not for our teacher who was trying to get me through my GCSE. I could have just said "nice person" instead and still have my teacher's respect - but he pretty much gave up on me after that...:D

Geta-Ve
03-09-2009, 02:21 PM
Re: Duhjin.

Whilst Geta-Ve is making a bit of a mountain out of a mole-hill, I will just point out that there are employers who do look at this site. Sure, theres no harm in being yourself and playful but just keep in mind that employers might not be impressed by someone using such "slang".



It is not so much that he used it jokingly, if he were being sarcastic and such that would be fine (maybe he was?) but he came here asking for serious advice, I would think he would take the subject a little more serious. That is my main issue with it.
:shrug: :p

Via-Art
03-09-2009, 04:26 PM
You would be surprised how many people type the way he does with zeds and even talk that way WORKING in studios. I've been to alot of gaming and film studios where its actually okay to even speak that way. Not all thugs speak like that either so I wouldn't be so prejudice. Keep an open mind and accept that there's other cultures that speak differently, but are wonderful persons. I personally don't find it appropriate to type or speak that way and can't take most serious either, but I've slowly adapted and its not that bad so take a chill pill. There's no harsh voicing if you feel I'm speaking roughly. Other than that, to the OP... I and most of the artist here are self-taught and pretty damn successful so if you can find that discipline and dedication like others mentioned before me, I believe you will get quite far in this field.

Darkherow
03-10-2009, 11:49 PM
If you want professional teaching then go and do it, so long as you research on the internet what schools are industry proven and are tought by professionals. Also try visiting the courses that you intend to go to with some sort of tour and ask some of the students what they thought of the course. As for the cost of the course I agree with the others it will cost you but also in my opinion you will get alot more out of the course when professionals are teaching you what you need for the industry and should lead to a career. Professional advice is also invaluable in terms of cost. Aside from teaching, it is also what you put in that is most important, even with amazing teaching, you still need to work hard and learn on you own too. What I mean by learning on your own is to stay late after classes and work on what was tought in class by yourself as there is no fast way to absorb all the information with just a class, you still need to practice it. Even if learning is slow you still have to keep pushing to be able to reach that career. Well good luck what choice you make but just remember to do your research on the school and courses, in my opinion being tought by professionals what I would chose to do and what I did do.

philnolan3d
03-11-2009, 01:18 AM
Some more things I forgot to mention about going to a school-- School is your first step in networking. If you're being taught by professionals, those are possibly your very first industry contacts, they might even recommend you for a job that they hear about. Same goes for your classmates. If it's anything like my school a large number of your classmates will be out there working in the field after graduation. So they seem like your buddies in class, but after you graduate they become instant business contacts. Maybe through them you might meet more people.

Aside from just networking, schools like DAVE have job placement and good advice on making a demo reel. William Vaughan started teaching at my school long after I had graduated and moved back home, so we never officially met in person. But he sure did offer to give me interview tips over the phone when I was interviewing with Blizzard.

Will your demo reel have some shots that need long render times or would benefit from more render time? You can bet the school has a bigger render farm than you do at home.

Duhjin
03-11-2009, 05:32 AM
You make a lot of strong points and are very helpful. On a side note I was reading the Sticky: FORUM PRIMER: The Unofficial Truth about The Industry by -dc-, at the top of the page. And what a great read I couldnít walk away. Anyone new to the forums or has not seen it should check it out. Again Thanks everyone for your advice and help.

Duhjin

MrPositive
03-11-2009, 01:08 PM
I've found that anything "Good" isn't "cheap". So how much do you consider not an "arm and a leg"?

I completely disagree with that sentiment. I bought a $500 dollar Turnbull and Asser shirt once and I've worn it twice and hate it, meanwhile the Autodesk Maya shirt I got for free last year, helped get me my current girlfriend and is becoming a rag. Shrug. In essence, it comes down to rolling up your sleeves and researching these schools websites, asking questions, finding out the passion of the 3d instructors, and reviewing student reels. It's no different than anything else when it comes to knowledge. I never pimp the school that I've instructed 3D at for 9 years on this site, but we are dirt cheap and have assisted in sending students to Pixar, Rhthym and Hues, Firaxis Games, etc., etc. who knew nothing about 3D when they arrived. And I'm sure there are many other similar types of high quality, low cost schools around. In other words, I don't like cliches and closed statements. :) I also don't believe in sweeping generalizations concerning success and people. Does everybody need to go to school to get into this industry? Absolutely not, go self taught if you can do it. Do some people need to go to school to get into this industry? Absolutely.
Will some schools steal your money if you don't do your homework? You bet your ass.

Geta-Ve
03-11-2009, 02:20 PM
You would be surprised how many people type the way he does with zeds and even talk that way WORKING in studios. I've been to alot of gaming and film studios where its actually okay to even speak that way. Not all thugs speak like that either so I wouldn't be so prejudice. Keep an open mind and accept that there's other cultures that speak differently, but are wonderful persons. I personally don't find it appropriate to type or speak that way and can't take most serious either, but I've slowly adapted and its not that bad so take a chill pill. There's no harsh voicing if you feel I'm speaking roughly. Other than that, to the OP... I and most of the artist here are self-taught and pretty damn successful so if you can find that discipline and dedication like others mentioned before me, I believe you will get quite far in this field.

I probably would be surprised you're right, but it doesn't make it right, nor does it mean I have to, or even should, be accepting of it. As per the prejudice remark, that is a laugh and a half, the whole label of thug and gangster comes from how they dress and act.

:shrug:

Difference of opinion I suppose.

Anyhow though, I agree a lot of artists that are self taught are amazing, however the amount of discipline you need is staggering.

Also, for the money issue being brought up, let me just tell you. I paid 20 grand for my CG school in Toronto, Canada (IADT) and it was the worst investment of my life thus far. I received nothing out of it, most of the teachers were idiots, no offense to one of the teachers (nice guy) but he was teaching us out of a Maya guide book, and basically I am no further than I was 5 years ago. Granted after school the lack of growth is my fault, but the school was horrendous. So more money does not always mean better schools. As many say, research, research, research!

ThE_JacO
03-11-2009, 02:34 PM
Anyhow though, I agree a lot of artists that are self taught are amazing, however the amount of discipline you need is staggering.
I'm self taught, lack any form of discipline or moderation, but am still doing ok and have been for a few years.
Nodding and smiling at meetings and soaking people in gasoline at dailies to threaten them with a match is the magic bullet in my experience.

On a more thread related notice, could the thugs and moderation police discussion have an end please? The OP seems to have gracefully taken on board the concepts of proper vocabulary and spelling several posts ago. I'm positive we can move on and start nitpicking punctuation now :)

MrPositive
03-11-2009, 02:52 PM
On a more thread related notice, could the thugs and moderation police discussion have an end please? The OP seems to have gracefully taken on board the concepts of proper vocabulary and spelling several posts ago. I'm positive we can move on and start nitpicking punctuation now :)

You forgot a period at the end of that last sentence. This post brought to you by the grammar brigade. Peace out.

Geta-Ve
03-11-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm self taught, lack any form of discipline or moderation, but am still doing ok and have been for a few years.
Nodding and smiling at meetings and soaking people in gasoline at dailies to threaten them with a match is the magic bullet in my experience.

I fail to see how you could possibly properly teach yourself anything without any form of discipline and/or moderation as you put it. Perhaps you are an exception to the rule, or maybe you simply don't realize how much self discipline you actually have. You obviously get your work done so that in itself shows a good amount of discipline.

I still believe in what I said. :p

blenderhead
03-11-2009, 03:06 PM
I can tell you one thing. No one will want you if you continually think spelling skills with a zed (z) at the end is OK. It is NOT ok to be intentionally ignorant.

C'mon Geta, ease off. How many people post these kinds of threads here who don't even know what punctuation is? It's the internet. I'm sure he wouldn't spell it that way on a college application. He doesn't need to impress or behave properly around us. We are just random people on a message board.

I am also dismayed that not a single post in this thread actually answers his question. This guy is a noob, who is asking a genuine, well structured, and life changing question. I wish I could answer it for him, but I don't live in the States, never mind N.Y., so I wouldn't know. Sure everyone can post 'just buy Gnomon's back catalogue', and that is a fine suggestion for studying alongside your college course, but the reality of the situation is, if this guy ever wants to travel and work (which this career choice affords people) outside of the 51 states then he needs a degree. He was just asking where he could get one for less than the extortionate prices the U.S. charges. I don't blame him. I got mine for free, essentially, and grants for general living while doing it. I would certainly not pay tens of thousands of dollars for a college education, I couldn't even if I wanted to.

EDIT: Phil Nolan makes an excellent point. Networking is also something you get from going to college.

JoeBananas
03-11-2009, 03:10 PM
there's also the online training options:

Video training which I use all the time, and is a very quick way to learn:

http://www.digitaltutors.com/digital_tutors/index.php
http://www.cg-academy.net/

and best of all, online classes where you can ask a lecturer questions if you get stuck:

http://www.fxphd.com/

and

http://www.escapestudios.com/en_GB/training.html

Geta-Ve
03-11-2009, 03:27 PM
I am also dismayed that not a single post in this thread actually answers his question.



Maybe you missed a few of the posts that do actually try to help him? The ones in between my bickering about spelling :P

A lot of folks have been trying to say that he doesn't necessarily have to rely on schools to get the CG education he needs to succeed in the industry. And, more importantly, that the more money a school charges doesn't make it a better school.

There have been a ton of help comments already, and also comments asking us not to speak of grammar anymore! :D I can continue the discussion re PM if you wish, as I would still say more, but I think the whole argument is a bust anyways, as, like Jaco says, the OP has in fact stopped. :P

Anyhow, another question from myself, what happened to the stickied thread that had a link to a ton of schools? I know it still exists in the CGS Wiki (as I put it in there myself) but why is the sticky gone?

anobrin
03-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Ive learned alot from here
http://www.video-tutes.com/

it covers a variety of programs

Wick3dParticle
03-11-2009, 06:15 PM
Hey Duhjin.

Here are my thoughts on the whole subject:

You can go very far on your own, especially at this day and age.
Most likely you will get farther on your own than any school will get you education wise. But getting your education in a school can offer you things that you probably wont be able to get on your own like, learning to work in a team, Structured learning curves and deadlines. You will also learn a lot from your peers, and working closely with them will definitely expose you to a lot more. You will also develop a network through school, whether it is with peers or school alumni. If your goal is to work at a major studio, more and more studios are requiring college degrees.
Dont judge a school by its price! Ask about successful alumni, and check out students work. Most schools will post their graduate's senior projects somewhere on the website. If you do choose to learn on your own, try to be as involved as possible with the forums and industry related communities, as that will become your main source of networking.

As for Geta - Although I agree that propper grammar is important, I think you have taken this a bit out of proportion. Yes, employers might be hanging out and reading these forums... but that doesnt change the fact that this is a casual place to freely express your ideas regarding anything industry related. I wear Jeans T-shirts and colorful sneakers to work every day... While some people would agree that my work outfit isnt a traditional one, I was never critisized for it nor taken not seriously at work for dressing the way that I feel comfortable dressing. Keep in mind that there are people of all trends and age groups on these forums and in this industry.

Duhjin, Skillz and a great attitude will get you far. Consider both paths, and go with the one you find most suitable for you. Be dedicated!

~Ilan

mxdirector
03-11-2009, 07:30 PM
Or how about you get off your own ass and do it yourself?

Go and get some books, dvds, software etc and just do it yourself. With The Animator's Survival Kit you have enough to get practicing with.

Get Blender, TrueSpace, Maya PLE, Houdini Apprentice, Messiah - or whatever - and go for it. True, you'll spend the first month or so trying to figure out the interface, but if you have a manual then its not exactly rocket science is it...

I know this is like a slap in the face, but the best thing for you right now is to just do it.
i would advise against that, with out seeking some form of help froma experienced person or a fellow newb to the industry.
maybe im just easily distracted, but if i could go back, theres alot of things i would change about how to learn 3d (first being would be to ban zbrush).

philnolan3d
03-11-2009, 09:33 PM
And, more importantly, that the more money a school charges doesn't make it a better school.

Just look at Full Sail. :p

Boone
03-11-2009, 11:55 PM
i would advise against that, with out seeking some form of help froma experienced person or a fellow newb to the industry.
maybe im just easily distracted, but if i could go back, theres alot of things i would change about how to learn 3d (first being would be to ban zbrush).

If you ask me there are far too many people who want everything handed to them on a plate. Years ago, I was told "You've got it easy - software used to cost almost as much as a house, but now you only pay a few thousand...", yet now I'm the one saying "You people have it easy! I had to make do with half-decent cover-cd-mag software, but now you have access to many open source applications...".

Seriously, we have it good nowadays. For education in this field I would look to evening courses and fill in the rest for myself. It gets even better when you make the effort to hook up with pros for a drink...

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone paying out for an education is stupid or anything - but if that path is not open to them then there is another good option to fall back on. All it requires is hard graft and dedication...

errantspark
03-12-2009, 12:18 AM
i would advise against that, with out seeking some form of help froma experienced person or a fellow newb to the industry.
maybe im just easily distracted, but if i could go back, theres alot of things i would change about how to learn 3d (first being would be to ban zbrush).

That might be a little harsh, but it is important to learn the basics, even if you're a child prodigy you will always benefit from having the basics down pat. I know if you've learned bits of a program more or less on your own it sucks to have to sit through beginning tutorials, but I don't even know the number of times I've talked to somebody who was a total noob and still learned something from them. Then again, with apps like 3DS max you never actually know the application there's always little things that escape you. I would also tend to agree on the zbrush bit, sculpting is great fun, but until you know topology and anatomy you should be learning those.

BUZZFX
03-12-2009, 12:33 AM
IMO If you already have good drawing, color and composition skills, and feel semi talented as an artist, then you already have a head start.

I would have liked to have attend a C.G. school but supporting a family and going to C.G. school was out of my reach so I went it alone. I did go to Art school for my training though which taught me all of the art fundamentals (Color theory, Composition etc.). A lot of art schools will offer 3D training as one of their course and art colleges are quite often a lot more inexpensive than schools that specialize in 3D training.

Sure I wish I had more skills in a lot of areas but learning all the skills in 3D doesn't have to happen overnight.

All the best. :)

dax3d
03-12-2009, 02:43 AM
Just look at Full Sail. :p

Lol, doesn't Dave School charge the same?

And I definitely agree that with all the types of training available in the form of DVD's or online classes, you can learn without going to a school or university. But I think it's important (as has also been mentioned) to go for other reasons. I went to a university for business before animation, so I had to take a variety of courses that are helpful for non-animation reasons, and the networking was huge too. I keep in contact with classmates from school and we have helped each other out once we got into the industry.

You can get in either way, it just may be a harder path depending on your personality, ambition, and dedication.

Good luck

dancgfx
03-12-2009, 04:56 AM
I've learned something important from this thread. Although i was expecting a good list of art schools that doesn't charge much:surprised.

Lunatique
03-12-2009, 08:06 AM
Whether to be self-taught or school taught is probably a decision based on personality and financial feasibility. Some people love the school environment of having other students to share the learning journey with, and teachers available to answer questions, but a good school will cost you, and even some not so great schools will cost just as much. You need to pick the right school because there are some bad ones out there with faculty members that have no talent for teaching, are barely artists themselves (as in their portfolios will get rejected at just about any decent studio), and have no persuasive industry experience to speak of.

To learn on your own, you have to be able to sit down and go through learning material step-by-step and actually do the tutorials instead of just scanning through the lessons, and learn to be resourceful and use the internet as the free education it is. You can still have a community to grow with--forums like this one and others. Post your questions, post your works for critique, participate in discussions, join collaborative projects...etc.

As for myself, I'm self-taught, and perhaps because I'm self-taught I'm a lot more sensitive to issues regarding the efficiency of learning/teaching methods. I've taught art schools and one common thing I noticed is that an unmotivated and lazy person will be that way whether he's learning on his own or in a school environment, and a passionate and hardworking one will be that way no matter if he's teaching himself or in a school environment. The good artists are the good because they either work hard, work smart, or have talent. The really good artists would have a combination of two of those qualities. The amazing artists will have all three qualities. Being self-taught or school-taught has no bearing on any of it, although a really good teacher can point out what you're doing wrong and help guide you if you stray.

mxdirector
03-12-2009, 04:41 PM
If you ask me there are far too many people who want everything handed to them on a plate. Years ago, I was told "You've got it easy - software used to cost almost as much as a house, but now you only pay a few thousand...", yet now I'm the one saying "You people have it easy! I had to make do with half-decent cover-cd-mag software, but now you have access to many open source applications...".

Seriously, we have it good nowadays. For education in this field I would look to evening courses and fill in the rest for myself. It gets even better when you make the effort to hook up with pros for a drink...

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone paying out for an education is stupid or anything - but if that path is not open to them then there is another good option to fall back on. All it requires is hard graft and dedication...

although they are major aspects of it all, i think one needs a few other things, goals and competition.
i simply dont want people to fall in to the same traps i did when self teaching. i think some one really needs specfific direction. if you could imagine a race with me in one track and some one studying 3d at college in another track. then he would be running in a stright line towards a goal. but i would be running 10 times faster but in every direction, i would literally be running circles around him.
if i had some form of direction i am confident i would be in the industry by now.

and competition is very important, expectionally if you are learning alone.working alone, you are comparing yourself to the very best in the field, its kind of depressing.
a bit of heatly competition is certainly a perk. i tried a few times but none of them went any where.

the bottom line is, that if i could go back a couple of years and change things, i would. i just would like to think that others dont go in to self teaching so blindly.

Boone
03-12-2009, 06:50 PM
although they are major aspects of it all, i think one needs a few other things, goals and competition.
i simply dont want people to fall in to the same traps i did when self teaching. i think some one really needs specfific direction. if you could imagine a race with me in one track and some one studying 3d at college in another track. then he would be running in a stright line towards a goal. but i would be running 10 times faster but in every direction, i would literally be running circles around him.
if i had some form of direction i am confident i would be in the industry by now.

and competition is very important, expectionally if you are learning alone.working alone, you are comparing yourself to the very best in the field, its kind of depressing.
a bit of heatly competition is certainly a perk. i tried a few times but none of them went any where.

the bottom line is, that if i could go back a couple of years and change things, i would. i just would like to think that others dont go in to self teaching so blindly.

You are correct regarding goals and competition. In art I am pretty much self-taught, yet since pitting myself against others in the HMCs my modelling skills have increased significantly with each challenge. Before the HMCs I would set my own targets such as spending at least one hour every night in Maya without fail, seeing a project through to completion by a certain date and so on...

As for guidance, I have said that getting in with professionals is important. Take every oppertunity to attend events, gatherings, a drink down the local and evening classes. Being self-taught does not mean locking yourself in your house and relying 100% on the internet; its about being resourceful with your time, money and what is around you. Being resourceful is after all a highly prized skill. For example, a friend of my family was a professional for creating Wedding videos. I scoffed at him at first, but not only did he introduce me to Macs, Final Cut Pro and some flashy high quality cameras - he also took me to an evening Master Class for Lightwave, which was presented by a very decent chap by the name of Andrew Bishop. At the time I didn't appreciate what my friend had done for me( I was a Maya user at the time, and felt falsely superior ) and I made the mistake of not attending further classes. And to think the classes didn't cost any more than a donation of a few quid at the door... :banghead:

Kanga
03-25-2009, 05:11 AM
I can tell you one thing. No one will want you if you continually think spelling skills with a zed (z) at the end is OK. It is NOT ok to be intentionally ignorant.
Guilty as charged :blush:

It is true though that whatever study you choose you are going to have to do the lion's share by yourself. Your aim should be how to create a terrific port folio. That isnt really something you can buy. Schooling can be great, self study can be great, but the next quote says it all.

I've taught art schools and one common thing I noticed is that an unmotivated and lazy person will be that way whether he's learning on his own or in a school environment, and a passionate and hardworking one will be that way no matter if he's teaching himself or in a school environment.

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