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ajsfuxor
07-04-2003, 02:23 AM
Hey CGTalk'ers

I've finally found some webspace to post my rig, which i would love everyone to tear apart, break, and give me heaps of crits on. The rig was done by myself and James Robison of Two Heads Productions (www.twoheads.com.au). The model was done by Grigor Pedo Pedrioli at CGC Melbourne.

The rig itself is pretty easy to use (i hope) and if u need any help, just ask. There may also be some not locked down rots etc, but not too many i hope. (A shoutout to knoxie for keeping the rig on it's toes ;)

Rig.Zip (http://www.mrated.com/download/Rig.zip ) (617kb) Right click > Save target as

This rig was done for a Video Clip for an Australian band called Ultrasun. The gang at CGC in Melbourne put this one together. Check it out and let me know what you think. Although after doing this project I now have a new respect for deadlines :)

Ultrasun Video Clip (http://jupiter.cgc.com.au/~kelsey/UltraSun/UltrasunBlurFinalSm.mov ) (39MB Quicktime)

ENJOY, and any crits on the rig would be much appreciated!!!

modi
07-04-2003, 09:33 AM
Pretty cool rigg. I wanted to downlaod the music video but it is 125MB, can u encode it with Divx or something.
A few things about the rigg
The deformations on the arms aren't the best
U should add an FK control for the arms and the spine.
The hair setup dosen't seem to work for me.
Cool stuff , cheers.

thematt
07-04-2003, 02:54 PM
hey yes it's pretty cool..but has it has been said, too bad there's no Ik fk Switch...I didn't find a way to disconnect the sticky arm neither ..maybe you do never use that but it's pretty handy sometime..exellent rig anyway particulary love all attribute on foot.

cheers and thanks a lot for sharing

nottoshabi
07-04-2003, 10:24 PM
The rig is pretty nice I like the Mid_Back_Control it ads a nice atribute there. I find some of the controls a little time consuming. The L_Wrist_Control should have the translates and the rotates on the same control, and have the fingers on a different locator all on its own. And the foot is a little to croudit in the chanell box. Thinck about how confusing the Graph Editor is going to be.
And you might want to devide the rotations in the arm. Do some aniamtion test with it, and youl see what I mean about the cluter.
Over all its a nice rig. :thumbsup:

But you r definetly going to need some Fk controls in there. (Arms and back).
And try to ad individual filange controls. That gives the animator more freedom in that area.
Thats just my 2 cents.
Great job.


:wavey:

Doogie
07-04-2003, 11:02 PM
One quick thing is, why not set up your feet like your wrists (why have a separate trans and rot ctrl??)

Might wanna rotate the thumb's joint axis a lil. Look at the way your thumb curls. I know you have attributes to move it in most any direction, but I couldnt get it to look right when i tried to make him hold up the number '4'

I know ppl will be asking for an IK/FK switch, but I don't like current methods of switching and for most cases should at least try and stay one or the other (I say use a different rig for FK arms.)

Also, how about having a simple way to turn off the ponytail easily

I'll try and take a closer look later.


-Paul

ajsfuxor
07-07-2003, 05:34 AM
Thanks for taking a look at the rig guys, much appreciated.

MODI: Ill take a look at the vid clip, it shouldn't be that large, i may have put up the wrong link or something. The skinning itself wasn't the best. I think this rig has no influence ojects, and was the initial skin. But i know this wasn't the best skin we had. As for the hair, move the hair controller and then press play. The hair is all dynamics, with an extra control for manual keying.

THEMATT: IK/FK was something we didn't take into account at the time, but i'll post another one of my rigs in the next months or two, with all the bells and whistles. Totally agree, this rig would have been nice if we had FK/IK controls. Not sure what u mean about the sticky arms thing?

NOTTOSHABI: The arm rotations are divided if u look at the bone structure. The Hand having two controls is something we have tried to avoid, but having time contstraints, we couldnt avoid it. The reason being is that on the hand control is a little switch that orientates the hand to either world or local rotations (local being they are dervied from up the arm). We haven't been able to do this sort of setup on one control yet. We are looking into using expressions to set this up.

DOOGIE: refer above comment about the arms...and yeah, FKIK would have been nice.

Thanks everyone!!

dmcgrath
07-07-2003, 07:50 AM
Overall I like the rig as well. I personally perfer to do more FK things for the specialty stuff, unless there is a need to repeat the same move many times.
If I really pick it apart, I would take some of the controls off the foot and put them on a secondary control. Something that doesn't get used very much, like the foot lean and toe and heel pivots. might be better off not being keyed every time you move the foot. (I found out a similar situation when making brake lights and turn signals for a car on the same controller. All of a sudden it didn't get animated as easily.)
As for other things, it is mainly a workflow issue for me.

I really wish everyone would read this so I will make it big and bold and red, this isn't because I am mad or being overly critical of your rig. Please don't be upset.


Stop parenting IK's and other objects under your control objects.

Use the constraints that Maya has built-in to the animation area.
You will find you life much easier by doing this one extra step alone.
First and foremost, it will make it so you don't need TWO control objects for you hand. You can then put the translate and rotate option sback together. Then maybe make a small locator or somethign to put on the finger spreads and pinch controls, etc.

Point constrain your IKs to your controls objects, and then HIDE the IK handle.
Use Orient constraints to your advantage. They are tricky because sometimes the orientation of your object might move after doing the constraint but you can use the offsets in the channel box to set it right.
Also, get the character so you can easily import it into another scene, this means making more groups and getting things set into it properly. My best advice is to look at Page Ten of my tutorial (in my signature, shameless plug :))

This will clean up your scene a lot.


cheers!

-dan

ajsfuxor
07-07-2003, 08:04 AM
why is it that you shouldn't parent anything under control objects? Don't too many unneccesary constraints slow down your rig?

dmcgrath
07-07-2003, 08:18 AM
You should just try it and see what I mean. How many constraints do you want to use? I am basically talking about a handful of constraints here, not several dozen. And to tell you the truth, I don't really know the true answer to your question. In my experience I haven't noticed any signifigant slowdown using any constraints. It is true that that is one more node that Maya has to evaluate, but we are talking esentially the same thing as parenting something and moving it. Sort of...

ajsfuxor
07-07-2003, 08:22 AM
But you still havent answered the question. Why not parent things under your control curves?

james THP
07-07-2003, 02:20 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the crits and positive response... definitely some things to consider for next time...

a few things about the rig...


the reason we have separate controllers for the translate of the arm and rotate of the wrist is due to the wrist orientation setup (not joint orientation - just it's general angle). a group above the 'Hand_control' is point constrained to the 'wristRig' joint and receives it's rotations from an orient constraint with two inputs, the 'wristRig' joint(local) and a null node with default rotations(world). This is what the 'world_local_ORI' att on the 'Hand_control' controls. This allows us to switch our wrist to either follow along the rest of the bones in the arm, or have free 'world' orientation which is uneffected by the movement of the arm... effectively locking the hand in position....and the wrist itself is free to be rotated with the hand_control.

for example, imagine your character doing pull ups hanging from a bar... place the hands in position and move the back up, (depending on your setup) this will make the wrist orientation change (following the parent bone's change in position), and to keep the hand in the same position you would need to counter animate it against the movement in the torso.... whereas by switching our control to the 'world' orientation it is uneffected by the movement in the torso... however it is also nice to be able to switch the orientation back to follow with parent joints for normal posing...

this setup inhibits you from having both trans and rotate controls on the one controlCurve...


hope these pics explain it a little better...

http://www.twoheads.com.au/tempImages/Local.gif

http://www.twoheads.com.au/tempImages/World.gif


fk on the arms and back wasn't necessary for our purposes (obviously a "full" rig would have every option, but not every option is needed for every rig...)


regarding too many attributes on one node, i think it really depends on the complexity of the animation required... we had only a little close-up hand animation, so separate finger controls would have just been a pain in the butt selecting each different finger, however if you had the opportunity to focus on very detailed hand animation then i can see the benefit of the individual controls...

anyway enough ramble, thanks for replying, after digesting so much info from this site, it's nice to give a little something back...

cheers

james

dmcgrath
07-07-2003, 10:34 PM
The wristOri control is really a good thing, This is the way I was taught to do it, also the way I have the setup on my rig tutorial. It reallly gives you an extra attribute for flexibility in animation.

aj,
I am sorry if you feel the parenting question wasn't answered well enough for you. Really what I mean, it's about keeping this clean in your organization of your rigs. When it comes time to look for stuff in the outliner, or hypergraph. Wouldn't you really rather like to find it under a node called IKHandlesGrpN_1, where all the IKs are located? Rather than having to dig under specific bone groups? The basic operation won't change either way you do it, but when it comes time to troubleshoot a problem with your rig, after someone else has broken it (for example). You could go straight to where the problem is with less effort.

One more crit I noticed is the Lean attribute on the foot, its pretty cool to have something like that, but I might limit it's rotations. The ankle can roll outward, but inward is virtually impossible, unless the ankle is broken.

:cheers:

ajsfuxor
07-08-2003, 01:06 AM
Thanks for clearing that one up DMC. I thought there was some operationally 'functional' reason for doing what you said. I totally agree about having the outliner neat and tidy. As I am still a student, i am still learning how to keep things nice n clean ;)

As for the foot roll inwards, limits may be good on the foot roll, but i don't like to limit the animators too much. The ankle can roll in just tiny bit, so i like to keep it there.

Thanks again for the rig crit, very much appreciated. As i said, ill have another more advanced rig posted in the next month or two, and you'll be the first one i send my rig to crit :)

Thanks Y'all!

dmcgrath
07-08-2003, 08:07 AM
Were all here to help each other, so I'd be happy to crit anything else you send my way.

:beer:
-dan

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