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View Full Version : Im Lost,Golden rules?


iliketrees
02-25-2009, 11:17 PM
Hi everyone,

Iv been using 3ds max for just over a couple of months now and learning in my spare time (which Iv made a lot of!)

After learning basic poly modelling methods as well as some modifiers and attempting various modelling tutorials (incl heads which went wrong a lot) I came up with a kid character a couple of weeks ago which Im very happy with and spent 'a lot' of time making sure the geometry was all quads and neat (flowing)

anyway Iv now finished rigging him by following through Michele Bousquet's book - Model, Rig, Animate with Max 7 (which I found at my local library) several times and applying the methods to my own bone rig and for skinning the character.

I have 3 spine controls,
clavicle and wrist control
a pelvis control which also controls the legs,
feet controls
a move whole character control
elbow and knee swivel angle (look at) controls

plus custom attributes for controling fingers and foot roll

So with these controls are there golden rules of what to use at what point in terms of animating and how do you go about creating good timing? (the book doesn't go into animating rules as such, just mouth shapes for lip-sych and a couple of poses)

For Example

for a walk/run cycle you move the pelvis control forward, then move the feet controls to postion the feet, then move the pelvis forward again, BUT, (for instance) how do you know how far along you move it the last time to keep with the constant motion?

Is there a 'hub' for animating with bones in Max, a central station if you like to organise and contruct the animation?

It just seems like theres to much freedom and no 'history' as such to see what you've done while working on new movements.

I hope someone's on my wavelength and gets what Im goin on about, any help would be amazing, thanks!

Neil.

Couple of screengrabs of my rig/controls (perviously posted under the 'Rigging' Section when enquiring about mirroring manual vertex weights)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll279/neilparsons/rig_cgtalk1.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll279/neilparsons/rig_cgtalk2.jpg

archanex
02-26-2009, 01:44 AM
have you tried looking into trajectories? That gives you a kind of "history" when making new poses

also, I think you would get more replies if you were more direct in what you were looking to achieve

iliketrees
02-26-2009, 12:12 PM
well my point really is what tables/smaller applications in Max is most useful for animating?

Is it really just a case of constantly tweaking the control objects while scrubing the time slider?

or is there a more organised central 'control unit' as such to review and tweak animation?

thanks.

archanex
02-26-2009, 07:09 PM
wellllllllll there's the curve editor and the dope sheet... but honestly I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for either...

you may want to check out this article

http://www.animationmentor.com/newsletter/0209/feature_geek.html#tipTrick

good luck

DJ-Nicke
02-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Hey Neil,
First off, great work! For only using max a few months, that's an awesome amount (and quality) of work!

I've never read the book you refer to, but it sounds like you need some controllers to "centralize" your animation controls.

Have a look at this website for some tutorials and some free plugins:
http://penproductionsinc.com/tutorials.htm

What I usually do is make "Named Selection Sets" in Max; eg Left Arm, Right Leg, All Animation Controls. Then whenever I want to key a pose I select that set and key everything.

That's an "old school" way of solving the problem out of the box.

As for "history", you might want to look for a plugin that does "Onion Skinning" or "Ghosting" of your keys.

Personally I find this too slow, so I just go out and buy myself a Dry-Erase Marker and draw on my computer monitor. That's another "old school" technique, but there aint not school like the old school!

iliketrees
02-27-2009, 12:26 AM
Archanex -

Thanks for getting back to me, Iv looked at the curve sheet and must admitt im not a fan straight off but it might grow on me, the dope sheet on the other hand looks ace man, cheers. ah yea, and the link, some solid tips there for sure, though makes me think my trouble is likely due to not coming from a traditional background. Makes sense, I mean it sure enough's not going to help is it?

DJ-Nicke -

First off, thanks for the encouragement! I really mean it. Im not ashamed to say I'm the kind of person that needs to be pushed to produce the work I want too (not that I dont try to push myself) and hearing from someone that I'm not wasting my time, (lets add thats made it in the industry) is an awe inspiring and great thing, so big big up there.

to be honest the books awesome (for my level anyway), even more experienced guys may find it a worthy reference.. well thats what the quotes say on the front, but if you ask me I dunno if you should listen to them, I mean whoever's heard of a bad one right?

Funny that you should post that link, paul neale was the first person to reply to me when I had a skinning issue with my character just a couple of days ago and gave me a link to that/his site will give the plugins a good going over be sure.

Ah named selection sets, I did create some but just general ones consisting of the control objects (all of them) mesh, bones and ik chains that sort of thing. maybe breaking them down to certain controls is the way to go, nice one.

Are you serious about drawing on your computer screen? That funny as fook and wicked at the same time! ... I like it!

'Take me back to the old skool cause I'm an old fool...' - Cant resist the rap

DJ-Nicke
02-27-2009, 11:07 AM
Oh yeah, drawing on your monitor is a great way to freak out your workmates.

I haven't tested dry erase with all flatscreen monitors though. I imagine its ok though.

One time my supervisor caught on to the idea, only he accidentally picked up a PERMANENT marker and drew all over my screen. That was funny, until I had to clean it off...

Also, to help you organise your selection sets, Jim Jagger has a nice plugin which you can find on this page:
www.jimjagger.com/JPages/JJTools/Tools_JJToolsV8.htm (http://www.jimjagger.com/JPages/JJTools/Tools_JJToolsV8.htm)

There's also a plugin that allows you to set a keyboard shortcut to bring up the named selection sets... I can't find it right now.

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