looking for the perfect car paint shader

[Per-Anders]

using radiosity/hdri or just standard shaders?

[AdamT]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
using radiosity/hdri or just standard shaders?

I think the key is to use HDRI reflections and no specular highlights. Or you can use HDRI reflections with Lumas in the luminance channel (multi-layer specs) to get a nice metallic look.

[Per-Anders]

well, the thing is theyr'e very different shaders that you would use depending on what you wanted.

if you want the perfect shader using radiosity and hdri then you have ot use an inverted fresnel in the color channel, and a blurred version of the hdri image in the environment channel (just do that with the blur settings in cinema) overlayed with a normal fresnel, and fresnel again in the reflection channel, and that's just a start, flecks etc involve messing around further still with diffusion, i had a shader that i set up for alberto to do this a while back.

if not hdri then use either lumas in your luminance channel, or danel volumetric material. these will get you "ultimate" car shaders pretty easily. bu really we need more detaisl, are we talking metallic, what method of rendering are you using etc?

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by AdamT
I think the key is to use HDRI reflections and no specular highlights.

Wrong imo, you should use both for a simple reason: you need to customize the blinn settings with a negative diffuse falloff value and that doesn't work if you disable the speculars, just use a metal specular with 75%-200% values for width and height, it works like a charm

[PJC]

Since it's for an animation set outdoors, no GI, and I am considering using HDRI but for now, I don't think we will be.

I started using Fresnel for Reflectivity and a colored noise in color and specular color (for the metallic fleck) and was getting okay looks, but it still seemed to be missing something. Can I layer a glass shader over top for the gloss?

tried Symbionts Metallic Paint Shader, which was awesome(has multiple speculars), but it started showing the wireframe thru on the render when I was tweaking it, so I dropped that and put in a bug report to Darksim.

This isn't the vehicle, but here's the color we going for:
.http://www.dodge.com/vehicle/vehicleSpec/images/vehicle_images/exterior/242/99/CC03_DR1L61_2TA_PR4_APA_XXX_XXX.jpg

it must be me, I love the Bhodi-Nut shaders, but their names are not very descriptive...I will experiment with them.

Thanks for the great responses so far!

- pjc

[unclebob]

I model in Rhino and use Flamingo to render/texture and they have an angular blend with metalic settting. Can C4D do somthing like this ? I like Rhino for modeling, but the render engine is kinda slow and I am looking to do some animation too. So, I'll be getting C4D later this summer.

bob

oh, I didn't model the car, this is a for a friend who wanted to see an orange color blend.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
Wrong imo, you should use both for a simple reason: you need to customize the blinn settings with a negative diffuse falloff value and that doesn't work if you disable the speculars, just use a metal specular with 75%-200% values for width and height, it works like a charm
Interesting. I'll have to give that a shot!

[ThirdEye]

If a result like the one i obtained http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallery_image.php?image_id=257 can satisfy you then get C4D, but you can get even better quality from your renders, that was just my 1st attempt at car modeling and the 2nd one is already better than that, i just have to finish it :p

[handige_harrie]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie

if you want the perfect shader using radiosity and hdri then you have ot use an inverted fresnel in the color channel, and a blurred version of the hdri image in the environment channel (just do that with the blur settings in cinema) overlayed with a normal fresnel, and fresnel again in the reflection channel, and that's just a start, flecks etc involve messing around further still with diffusion, i had a shader that i set up for alberto to do this a while back.

What do you mean by 'overlayed'? Using fusion?

All these fresnels are they 'out-of-the-box' or do you adjust them?
And can someone explain to me what lumas is for and what it exactly does.

I didn't use all these special tricks and got a nice basic look.
I just used an almost standard Danel material with a bright luminous plane and a hdri-sky.

Looks pretty much like the red truck and might be a good start.

Get the file (R8) (http://members.home.nl/hcgl.hermans/carpaint-test01.zip)

ThirdEye you had a beautiful orange-gold material on one of your Murcielago w.i.p.'s. Any chance on sharing that?

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by handige_harrie

ThirdEye you had a beautiful orange-gold material on one of your Murcielago w.i.p.'s. Any chance on sharing that?

I can't share that since i'm using some hdri maps in the environment channel and it would be a huuuge file, but i posted the recipe in that WIP thread, just copy it ;)

[handige_harrie]

Okay I just did and it certainly produces or softer look that is more realistic (that is: if you're not aiming for the showcase look on the red truck).

But I'm not really convinced this is the perfect shader :shrug:.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by handige_harrie
Okay I just did and it certainly produces or softer look that is more realistic (that is: if you're not aiming for the showcase look on the red truck).

But I'm not really convinced this is the perfect shader :shrug:.


Tweak, tweak and then again tweak, that's just an indication for the right way, up to you for your settings, you won't find a perfect shader to fit all the situation, cgi is all about tweaking and cheating.

[derwolpertinger]

@handige_harrie: lumas shader is used to create multiple speculars, normally you put it in the luminance channel.

[PJC]

I got something going on pretty good with Lumas in the luma channel, Fusion(I've been looking for a way to combine materials for since we got c4d) with Fresnel and a 3D noise (for the metal fleck) and a few other things. I will show an example soon.

Now for the swirls in the paint...

- pjc

[AdamT]

Originally posted by PJC
I got something going on pretty good with Lumas in the luma channel, Fusion(I've been looking for a way to combine materials for since we got c4d) with Fresnel and a 3D noise (for the metal fleck) and a few other things. I will show an example soon.

Now for the swirls in the paint...

- pjc

Sounds good. Note that you can nest Fusions within Fusions to develop really complex shader trees. Sort of a PITA to work with, but the results are worth it.

[PJC]

Here's the progress so far. The red on Dodge products aren't too metal flecked, but I like the fleck.

Oh, and this isn't the new Dodge we're working on (that one takes 650MB of RAM right now to load into Cinema) it's the early stages of a comic book project I'm pitching to Marvel.

http://www.ccpots.com/PJCdemo/c4dtsts/painttest.jpg

ande here is the file on a standard cube. You can turn on Luminance (it has Lumas in it) to "pop" it a little more if there isn't a ton of light, or want an extra robust highlight. It's not perfect, so let me know what everyone thinks.

Cinema4D Red Metallic Car Material (http://www.ccpots.com/PJCdemo/c4dtsts/carshadercube.zip)

thanks again for all the help.

- pjc

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