Setting up armature and rigging

[Bonechilla]

This link may be better http://www.easy-share.com/1903750374/testing.blend

[Aligorith]

Hi,

No matter what method of skinning you use, a model set up (in its rest pose) in a relaxed mid-way position will always be favorable to the model you've got, as setting your model up in such a fashion will enable it to be rigged in an easier fashion with nicer deformations. Have a look around for info regarding "A-Pose" or "T-Pose" and the ins/outs of both methods.

Heat weighting works by determining the distance between the bones and the vertices in your model. Problems arise when certain parts of the model are so close to other "separate" parts (i.e. in your model, the thumbs intersect the thighs) that the computer considers all of the points in the vicinity of a given bone (i.e. thumb bones will be considered to be closer to both the verts defining the thumb AND the thigh) as belonging to the bone.

In short, here are a few things to do to your model to make it easier for the Heat Weighting or any other method:
* Legs - don't have these smacked right against each other. While you may normally stand in such a position, it is better to have these spaced further apart so that heat-weighting doesn't make any mistakes. Also, this makes it a bit easier to edit the model, especially in "tight" spots (i.e. inner sides of the legs).
* Arms - move these away from the body. The key thing here is to make sure that the verts of the arms are away from the body in some position which will still be somewhat relaxed. Ideally, figure out the range of motions required for the arms, and place them in a pose which is close to all of them. Keep it simple!
* Limbs - make sure these are slightly bent in the orientation that they will normally bend in. This goes for arms, legs, and fingers, in both the mesh AND the rig. Doing so, will make it easier for the IK-solver to reach to correct solution in most cases, reducing the incidence of unwanted pops/flipping.

Hopefully this will give you some things to work on,
Aligorith

[Bonechilla]

Hi,

No matter what method of skinning you use, a model set up (in its rest pose) in a relaxed mid-way position will always be favorable to the model you've got, as setting your model up in such a fashion will enable it to be rigged in an easier fashion with nicer deformations. Have a look around for info regarding "A-Pose" or "T-Pose" and the ins/outs of both methods.

Hey thx for the reply i'm not exactly sure what an A-Pose is but I modeled it that way because that was how the reference picture was positioned
Heat weighting works by determining the distance between the bones and the vertices in your model. Problems arise when certain parts of the model are so close to other "separate" parts (i.e. in your model, the thumbs intersect the thighs) that the computer considers all of the points in the vicinity of a given bone (i.e. thumb bones will be considered to be closer to both the verts defining the thumb AND the thigh) as belonging to the bone.
well actually the thumbs had no issue binding to the proper bone since it doesn't intersect the thigh it was just a couple verticies on the outside of the leg

however when i move the armature say the leg it deforms way past where the armature is.

In short, here are a few things to do to your model to make it easier for the Heat Weighting or any other method:
* Legs - don't have these smacked right against each other. While you may normally stand in such a position, it is better to have these spaced further apart so that heat-weighting doesn't make any mistakes. Also, this makes it a bit easier to edit the model, especially in "tight" spots (i.e. inner sides of the legs).
* Arms - move these away from the body. The key thing here is to make sure that the verts of the arms are away from the body in some position which will still be somewhat relaxed. Ideally, figure out the range of motions required for the arms, and place them in a pose which is close to all of them. Keep it simple!
* Limbs - make sure these are slightly bent in the orientation that they will normally bend in. This goes for arms, legs, and fingers, in both the mesh AND the rig. Doing so, will make it easier for the IK-solver to reach to correct solution in most cases, reducing the incidence of unwanted pops/flipping.

okay thx alot I'll attempt these solutions and try again

[Bonechilla]

is this better

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4189/isthisbetter.jpg

I'll try and bend the knees more but is this a proper rigging position?

[iliketrees]

Hi Bonechila,

Im not aware of the A-pose either, not sure how this position (how im thinking it to be which is like your posted image) would work if the character needed to raise his/her arms above the head?

My research (Im very new to rigging) suggests the arms should be more than 45 degrees but not as much as 90.

But Im guessing the A and T pose are meant for different movements in mind for the character

Your character reminds me of spider-man :cool:

[rikkiknight]

Hey,

The pose isnt bad, but I would maybe raise the arms out a little similar to the way they have it on the blender page you posted. The 'A' pose is generally a relaxed 'T' pose slightly. You'll want to bend the knees abit more as youve said. And maybe have the wrists slightly turned in more. But its not essential, it will be easier to work with 'planes' if you havnt had the chance to do much rigging, i.e. xy, yz etc. The 'T' pose will also help you work with planes more.
If you want some reference to the 'A' pose I believe jeff unay did some nice work in the hyper realistic series. With a 'A' pose you can still raise the arm up quite far, but it will depend on topology and the shoulder rig.
So, if want to stick with the current pose I would recommend lifting his arms more, becareful with his hands, they look a little too clenched.
Maybe have the feet turned out slightly more and as youve said have the legs bent. Then you should be set to go.

[Bonechilla]

i'm unable to succesfully bend the knees or spread the arm out properly to a T pose no matter what i do can anyone assist. Testing.blend (http://www.savefile.com/files/2016102) or advise me on what I could try and do.

**Well i do know that an intentional pose of the character is to hold a two handed weapon as well as extend his arms over his head to climb up a ledge**
I was however able to complete the other things
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9301/suittest.jpg


Im not aware of the A-pose either, not sure how this position (how im thinking it to be which is like your posted image) would work if the character needed to raise his/her arms above the head?
yeah I'm actually having difficulty with that lol


The pose isnt bad, but I would maybe raise the arms out a little similar to the way they have it on the blender page you posted. The 'A' pose is generally a relaxed 'T' pose slightly. You'll want to bend the knees abit more as youve said. And maybe have the wrists slightly turned in more.
I was able to turn the wrists inward and feet outward

But its not essential, it will be easier to work with 'planes' if you havnt had the chance to do much rigging, i.e. xy, yz etc. The 'T' pose will also help you work with planes more.

So, if want to stick with the current pose I would recommend lifting his arms more, becareful with his hands, they look a little too clenched.
Maybe have the feet turned out slightly more and as youve said have the legs bent. Then you should be set to go.
either I haven't heard of planes or i'm using them without knowing i have no idea since attempting to fix the model i have regressed to an earlier model deleted the rig and re-proportioned certain areas of the character

Well I was unable to make hands and that actually took me 6 days while everything else only took a day or 2 to complete. When i did initially complete the hands however i had come to find that the hand had more verticies than the torso legs and feet at which point i attempted to reduce around 100 verticies and attached to the arm creating a poor wrist :thumbsup:

[rikkiknight]

sorry might be my explaining there.
For example when you look through the front camera your working in the xy plane. Everything you create is at default aligned and flat on this plane. Top down, xz plane etc. (This is application specific I believe, some have their axis oriented differently)
When you start introducing angles into your rig things can get alittle more complicated, but not much. Sometimes its just a matter of a little more house keeping, making sure you dont have any extra (or crazy) transforms which sometimes occur

Hope that makes sense
Rik

[Bonechilla]

sorry might be my explaining there.
For example when you look through the front camera your working in the xy plane. Everything you create is at default aligned and flat on this plane. Top down, xz plane etc. (This is application specific I believe, some have their axis oriented differently)
When you start introducing angles into your rig things can get alittle more complicated, but not much. Sometimes its just a matter of a little more house keeping, making sure you dont have any extra (or crazy) transforms which sometimes occur

Hope that makes sense
Rik

ahh makes sense now thx

----

hmm after adding a couple verticies and changing the rotation point i ended up with this

is it okay for rigging (also is it okay that the back shoulder verticies are kinda spread out more than the front since i slightly bended it his whole arm)??


http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/383/testshot.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2838/dfg.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3600/dfhh.jpg

[Bonechilla]

can anyone confirm so i can attempt rigging again?

[rikkiknight]

It looks ok, sometimes you just need try it. The more varied models you try and rig the more you will see what will or what wont work.
Id say this is a good starting point to practise. Next time you model tho, consider the topology of your model and how it will deform. Where you want your edge loops etc. After rigging this character you might come across a few things.

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