'The Character Design Studio' Blog is now up!

[XminusOne]

Awesome!!! Thanks!!!

[balistic]

Am I alone in thinking these drawings are incredibly poor?

I think a beginning artist would be much better served by picking up Glen Vilppu's discs.

[ShinChanPu]

Am I alone in thinking these drawings are incredibly poor?

I think a beginning artist would be much better served by picking up Glen Vilppu's discs.

You're not alone, but Vilppu's works aren't good enough. There are so many excellent sources...
:)

[fuss]

Well, you could use Vilppu's DVDs along with this (http://www.amazon.com/Human-Anatomy-Artists-Elements-Form/dp/0195052064/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234530795&sr=8-1) . Then you're pretty much set! Probably more knowledge than you can chew at once, all delivered on a silver tray.

Then just keep studying from life models before you attempt to do all from memory, otherwise your models might turn up looking stiff and unnatural as on... well, a certain website... :P

EDIT:

I wasn't trying to hijack this thread or talk Riven's work down... Before I knew better myself I was pretty amazed about this DVD set as well. I even purchased it and went through every single anatomy lesson on the discs! However, once I learned more and moved on I came to the conclusion, one should not attempt to try and teach others before mastering his own craft first... Flawed teaching methods can hurt the students more than it can help them, and while the anatomy information on the discs is quite decent, there are better and more comprehensive resources for that, like the book by Goldfinger I mentioned before (can't go wrong with Vilppu either!). However, for practically APPLYING your knowledge of anatomy, studing from life models can never replace a strict "procedural" approach. You CAN learn how to draw realistic humans from imagination and learning anatomy is the foundation for this, but you can't expect to draw realistic and natural looking humans without studying from life itself. Otherwise you end up with dead and unnatural looking characters, like the ones you can see on Riven's website... Don't get me wrong, I think Riven Phoenix is a decent artist and I appreciate what he's trying to do, but in my opinion his fundamental methodology is flawed in at least this one aspect and he should spend more time on learning and developing as an artist before moving on to teaching others...

But, who the hell am I? A guy on a message board who does not even have a portfolio... ;) These were just my two cents, at the end you have to decide for yourselves!

[balistic]

You're not alone, but Vilppu's works aren't good enough. There are so many excellent sources...
:)
Certainly. Vilppu was the first artist to come to mind, and the only one whose DVDs I've purchased. Of course there's no replacement for lots of life drawing from live models.

[Bucket]

Hrmm.. The comments confuse me. You ever seen someone knock someone elses art and so for a moment. You think, "this guy must have some badass art for talking that way" and then look in their portfolio and in the sketchbooks and go to their websites and that individuals art is not quite as mindblowing as their comments imply...

Yeah the vilpu stuff seems okay. I'm not blown away by it. Kind of pricy for something that focuses on one part of the body. I thought Mike Matessi and Hogarth Burne have better stuff.

I dunno I thought Riven's finished art looked above average... But hey I don't draw much so what do I know. Maybe he should change the name of his dvd, his site says manga and comic book art. That's a different category right?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XKWx0QPvUpM/RoRACbTEEgI/AAAAAAAAAJk/BsJX7GNB-3M/s400/RivenPhoenix4.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XKWx0QPvUpM/RoQ_dbTEEfI/AAAAAAAAAJc/8AYq9UThCpQ/s1600/ScorpionKing.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XKWx0QPvUpM/RoRACbTEEgI/AAAAAAAAAJk/BsJX7GNB-3M/s1600-h/RivenPhoenix4.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XKWx0QPvUpM/RoRACbTEEgI/AAAAAAAAAJk/BsJX7GNB-3M/s1600-h/RivenPhoenix4.jpg

[balistic]

If you told me you scanned those out of a 14-year-old's notebook I would believe you.

[Bucket]

I got this off a 14 year olds website. :D Sorry I couldn't resist. Please tell me you're good work isn't online and that your website is 10 years old or something. cause. I've seen better from amateurs. Anyways, when you've shown some work that actually shows you are competent in some area I'll give your opinion a tiny bit more thought. Or maybe if you actually explain your thoughts of why something is good or bad etc. Or pretend the image below is not yours and give me you oppinion on it?
http://www.bprince.com/OverwhelmingNumbersB2.jpg

[KolbyJukes]

I got this off a 14 year olds website. :D Sorry I couldn't resist. Please tell me you're good work isn't online and that your website is 10 years old or something. cause. I've seen better from amateurs. Anyways, when you've shown some work that actually shows you are competent in some area I'll give your opinion a tiny bit more thought.


Wow. That was incredibly obnoxious.

I agree with Balistic. The website claims that Riven Phoenix and his dvd sets are critically acclaimed, industry standard, frankly I find this hard to believe. I was expecting a portfolio and demo videos that reflected a rich knowledge of human anatomy.

The drawings are interesting, but they don't strike me as incredibly original or even anatomically correct. I wouldn't say his art is incredibly poor, but with the amount of accolades and hype on the site, I'd expect art on par with industry-leaders like Carlos Huante, Neville Page, Wayne Barlowe, etc.

[balistic]

Not worth the time.

[leigh]

Enough of this e-peen contest.

[urbanrockwell]

I've been working through Riven Phoenix tutorials right now. Just to sum up the dvds His approach is really unique. It is just a diiferent way of thinking and breaking down the human body in your mind. He states clearly that this is a GENERAL approach(meaning generic) approach to drawing the figure. Inventive drawing(Phoenix) is different from drawing what you see(life drawing). He also stated to refrence back with an anatomy book, or liife drawing observation along with his formulas. The drawings aren't the best that your use to seeing in a Gnomon or Concept art series because they're quick studies; he's just trying to help certain types of artists and learners have a differnt approach they can add with what they already know. Most of his lessons are only 7-15 minutes; so your not going to get a super dynamic demonstration but a general idea and general observational appproach. His approach is not for everyone: He states it in his series, nor is it the only and best teaching approach. It has helped me a lot. I'm not a concept artist but have decided to explore and try to get into it now. I have some formal school training with live models and Illustration but need to expand. My biggest problem was always seeing the figure as a complex approach but combining my studies from life drawing and drawing what I see along with Riven Phoenix is helping me bridge the gap and make more sense of things by adding an abstract (generic approach along with using a more consistent study tools of grat anatomy books and life drawing).

final thoughts: Riven Phoenix has a good niche for what he does to help certain types of artists. Depending on your level of understanding this series may or may not help you. It has definetly helped me and yes I would recommend it. The best way to learn is to go along with his tutorials but also refrence back with a good anatomy book to sharpen and enchance your studies. His techniques are good for helping work out your characters and figures. You wouldn't use this as final work for medical drawings and anatomically correct study sheets;

[urbanrockwell]

You would use this for a solid understanding when creating and working out your characters; especially when you have to work quickly and meet deadlines. When you think about it if your drawing out storyboards or character sheets for a company, you just need the general (basic) idea of anatomy to get your ideas flowing quickly. Anatomy for life drawing is just that; realistic, detailed and accurate drawings for anatomy only, not necessarily for commercial entertainment. A good contrast is myself and my best friend. I’m pretty descent with drawing portraits and likenesses from life and photos. My buddy is better with inventing out his head. He didn’t have patience with drawing from life; he’d rather look at a person for a while, and then go home and re-invent the image from his head and get a likeness. So it really depends on where you’re at as an artist and being open with other perspectives on learning to better yourself.

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