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d8ed
06-29-2003, 05:31 AM
well.. you guessed it.. it's my first head. took roughly about 8 or 9 hours to get to this point. followed some video tutorial i found somewhere. it's 530 subds and it's done in LW. the mesh is dirtier than i'd like it to be at this point but i'll live with it. what can i do to make it better? please disregard the lighting/composition/surfacing. thanks in advance.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head01_WIP.jpg
http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head01_WIRE.jpg

BiTMAP
06-29-2003, 05:42 AM
you know that is a very interesting edge loop around the eye, I'm not sure if it will work, but it most definatly is diffrent lol.

d8ed
06-29-2003, 05:47 AM
man you caught that fast.. following that tutorial the guy does so many things so fast it's hard to keep up. he kept using spinquad to spin pairs of quads around and he did it so fast sometimes it didnt show up on his limited fps video. so the point of this little story is that i ended up with a swirly eye loop before i realized what had happened. since i'm using this first head as a learning experience i left it alone for now. aside from animation.. do good loops make for easier texturing? any other advantages?

also can anyone provide a link to an image with ideal loops? would be much appreciated.

discode
06-29-2003, 06:41 AM
Hello:


Edge loops allow for proper deformations when animating. I would suggest taking a look at this tutorial head (http://www.secondreality.ch)

d8ed
06-29-2003, 08:55 AM
i remade the eye completely. not sure if i went out far enough with the edge loops though but they're all uniform now. no more spiraling loops. it's so much easier to model when it's like this.. i didnt realize how much more difficult it was to move points around on an uneven surface like that.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head02_WIRE.jpg

d8ed
06-29-2003, 11:36 AM
latest.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head03_WIP.jpg

bantza
06-29-2003, 01:04 PM
Seems to me that forehead is little too short vertically and cheeks are too back. I suggest trying out with a higher upper head (or shorter lower head) so that the eyes would be little closer of the center of the head vertically. And maybe bringing cheeks more forward so the other cheek would be more visible in perspective view. Of course final decicion is up to you, but doesn't do any harm experimenting a little?-)

iBlue
06-29-2003, 05:35 PM
the eyes are too high to anatomically correct, human eyes are almost perfectly in the center of the head.

romans_5_8
06-29-2003, 07:11 PM
For your first head, this model looks pretty good. but i suggest dropping it and start another one from scratch. the more heads you make the more you'll get used to how the edges should rest on the head. i made a few quick notes on how you can improve on the next model. There's also an image of a old wrinkled face to help see how the skin stretches. I'd suggest making an old person. it'll help you get used to how the skin should fold. but don't get discouraged, it looks way better than my first head. and probably my 2nd and 3rd. i hope this helps

in His Grace
Charles

http://www.geocities.com/cromans_5_8/Head02_WIRE.txt http://www.geocities.com/cromans_5_8/wrinkled_face.txt

d8ed
06-29-2003, 08:56 PM
thanks for all the tips guys! that old man pic sure is ugly.. poor guy looks like tree bark. i'm gonna tweak this head a bit and then start on a new one right away.

amazing how when you said the cheeks were off.. they started to look way off.

i'm gonna work on pushing the cheeks forward, pushing the area around the lips forward and centering the eyes more. that should make the forehead a bit bigger as well.

@romans_5_8 thanks for taking the time to draw that out for me. i really appreciate it.

is the ear OK by the way? i struggled quite a bit on that thing. and every reference i could find looked completely different.. i tried to make it as generic as possible.

thanks again guys. i'll post progress tonight or tomorrow.

romans_5_8
06-29-2003, 10:20 PM
glad i could help. I'll be looking forward to the next update.

d8ed
06-30-2003, 03:18 AM
latest. i brought the eyes down, pushed out the cheeks, added some lines around the nose and puffed up the upper lip slightly. i also tweaked the lower lip and defined it more. slight tweaks here and there.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head04_WIP.jpg
http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head04_WIRE.jpg

romans_5_8
06-30-2003, 05:41 AM
It's looking much better. you brought out the forehead more and tilted the nose forward, which looks much more natural. here's a couple of main anatomical issues that i see. and the rest of it is just a matter of what looks good. Keep in mind that the eyes and mouth convey a lot about a character. so they require a lot more attention. stuff to keep in mind for the next one. you'll be able to pick it up pretty quick.


http://www.geocities.com/cromans_5_8/head_notes.txt

d8ed
06-30-2003, 05:58 AM
yeah for some reason i had his head tilted back which made his eyes look too high.

unless he's asian? man you know your stuff it sounds like =)

thanks again for the best critique i've ever had. you've brought quite a few things to my attention i never would have thought to pay attention to. it definitely pays to know the underlying musculature of the face that's for sure.

i'll tweak this guy a bit more and post the final update. might not be perfect but he's far better than i could have imagined going into my first head model. modeling such an easily recognized and familiar thing was very intimidating. especially after seeing some horrendous attempts by others.

since you sound like you've done this before =) what's the average amount of hours one should expect to spend on a fairly realistic head model?

romans_5_8
06-30-2003, 08:09 AM
yeah, the face is really tough becaues it's so familiar. But you're starting out well. i've been doing this for a few years, but like you, i'm still learning. generally when i model a character, i'll spend anywhere from 4 days to a week for the head, and another 3 to 4 weeks for the body, depending on the detail of course, and what the camer is going to focus on. But at the end when i start texturing, i'll revisit the head again. that way i'll have fresh eyes and i'll be able to catch stuff i've missed before.

(sometimes when something doesn't look right, and you can't figure out why, you should just start on another model and come back to it later)

but all that is an idealistic timeframe. generally when you're in production, you should have about 2 - 3 weeks for a generic character. but i've worked at companies where i've had a week and others where i've had a month.

with all that said, keep at it. you're doing well.

d8ed
07-01-2003, 05:30 AM
this is the final. i could keep tweaking forever but the more i tweak the more i have to tweak. i'm gonna start on another head tomorrow while all the information i've learned is fresh in my head. thanks again for all the help everyone. it's very appreciated.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head05.jpg

d8ed
07-03-2003, 01:55 AM
argh. i couldnt stop. someone mentioned some things to fix and i started seeing all these other things.. so i kept tweaking and fixing. here's latest. i worked mainly on the eyes/mouth/jaw/shape of skull. the jaw and the shape of the skull are giving me the most problems. i think i'm gonna widen the skull right behind the ear area. i wish i could find reference for the back of a bald man's head =)

hope i didnt ruin anything.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head06.jpg

d8ed
07-03-2003, 01:58 AM
and a new wire.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head06_WIRE.jpg

d8ed
07-03-2003, 03:07 AM
shape of the neck update. does the chin seem to go too low for anyone? i raised it up but it looked weird so i changed it back.

http://www.d8ed.com/Images/Head07.jpg

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