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nkr10
02-02-2009, 12:18 AM
Hi, im a 18 year student and since 2months ago ive been wondering about my future and i cant make up my mind.


Im looking for a school for 3D animation and vissual effects, im aplying for EMILY CARR in vancouver, but my real goal is to go to VFS or GOBELINS.
The problem is that VFS is just a diploma and i want to have a bachelor documents, just for any situation that it would be helpfull, like if i want to teach, or if a job oportunity ask me for it.

If somebody can advice me i will apreciate it very much. I have 2 principal options:


EMILY CARR - Vancouver, CANADA

FULL SAIL - Florida, USA

What do you think about that schools?

And in terms of animation learning what would you choose: Canada or USA?

If you have any other suggested school please tell me.

Thanks ;)

Meloncov
02-02-2009, 10:02 PM
More important than the difference between countries is the difference between the schools. Full Sail is very technical, at the expense of creativity, while Emily Carr is very creatively focused, at the expense of technical skills.

MikeRhone
02-02-2009, 10:22 PM
I've yet to work with anyone that took 3d studies at Emily Carr.

PorkpieSamurai
02-02-2009, 11:26 PM
Yeah, I dont think their 3d reputation is very good, Emily Carr is very theory based courses.
You should explain what sort of person you are because if your the sort of person who learns on their own very easily then you might want to consider an academic education and dedicate your spare time to getting intimate with the more practical side of animation.

I know a lot of people go to vfs to learn the software and principles because they think their learning experience will be better than if they tried to learn themselves.

JesseDavis
02-02-2009, 11:51 PM
Yeah, I dont think their 3d reputation is very good, Emily Carr is very theory based courses.
You should explain what sort of person you are because if your the sort of person who learns on their own very easily then you might want to consider an academic education and dedicate your spare time to getting intimate with the more practical side of animation.

I know a lot of people go to vfs to learn the software and principles because they think their learning experience will be better than if they tried to learn themselves.

i agree with mister pork here.

kelgy
02-03-2009, 12:23 AM
Emily Carr never had a good reputation in traditional art either. Someone once made a lamp out of a roadkill cat and handed it in for assignment.



Supposedly it had a good 2d animation program, but it was very anti-traditional art when I applied there in the 90s.

When you are interviewed for the school and one of the interviewing teachers says: our philosophy is that the student throw out all their existing work and start from scratch

and the other says: I dont understand why you ( a 22 year old male) are doing monsters and demons and dark stuff when my 5 year old daughter does faeries, and pixies and nice things

you dont get a good school vibe.

I did hear that EA had established some sort of partnership with them a few years ago though.

twedzel
02-03-2009, 01:45 AM
To reiterate what all the others say Emily Carr is a Fine Art School, it is not well suited to producing visual effects professionals. It is not a trades or technical college and that is not its mandate. Do not go there simply for the degree. If you want a career in visual effects VFS will do much better for you. As for you narrowing down your options to full sail or Emily Carr, try to think of it this way. You will be spending tens of thousands of dollars at these facilities and devoting a huge amount of time and attention to the programs they lay out for you. They will be the breeding ground for your first contacts in the industry and quit probably the links to breaking into the industry. I would strongly recognsider your options and go for the best institutions you can get into that are producing the most "hirable" studants. The money you are spending is an investment in your futur. I wouldn't narrow it down to certain schools just because they offer degrees.

VisualNightmare
02-03-2009, 02:35 AM
Having attended Emily Carr myself, I can say its a great Fine Arts School, in a fantastic location. I cant speak for there 3d program, or its requirements, but Fine Arts at Emily Carr is not easy to get into without a substantial background in art, or some serious self taught skills.

nkr10
02-03-2009, 04:10 AM
I consider myself as a person who learns easily, and i really want to go to VFS the the problem is that, the certificate.. because y live in mexico and may be one day for any circunstance i will have to return and it will be very helpful to get a job.

chewedon
02-03-2009, 04:15 AM
How about Animation Mentor ?

Their student demo reels looked rather pleasing :)

Not sure what you'll get after graduating but they said 60% of their graduates are hired by the big companies, (faint memory from a video interview).

PorkpieSamurai
02-03-2009, 05:17 AM
I consider myself as a person who learns easily, and i really want to go to VFS the the problem is that, the certificate.. because y live in mexico and may be one day for any circunstance i will have to return and it will be very helpful to get a job.


In this industry its all about your portfolio and exeperience not the peice of paper that states what your degree is.
Oh also your reputation is vital!

kelgy
02-03-2009, 08:37 AM
Unless the interview teachers were imposters, Emily Carr did have a bias against traditional fine art skills, self taught or substantial background.
They tended to prefer "clever" art over technical skill.
They also changed their name 3 times in 25 years.

For a while they even stopped having portfolio requirements for entry and wanted students to make something specifically for admittance.

But they do have more competition now, so maybe they have recently been forced to abandon their bias against traditional art.
It was very hostile to it from the 80s-through mid 90s.

I knew someone who was expelled because he did a prosthetic makeup appliance for one assignment.

Imhotep397
02-03-2009, 01:46 PM
Personally I think you should look into The Ringling School in Florida, Art Academy University, CalArts, Savannah College of Art and Design those are the best schools in 3D/animation at the moment and they all offer degrees. BYU also has a burgeoning animation/3D program with alumni connections to Pixar execs. To a large extent, I think that any school that has an actual program and at least one or two good instructors will work for the talented and driven student though. My only issue with Goebelins would be the language barrier, the French are well known for not speaking any language other than French in their country so if you don't speak French fluently that would be a huge impediment to learning a very complicated set of skills.

circusboy
02-03-2009, 07:35 PM
In this industry its all about your portfolio and exeperience not the peice of paper that states what your degree is.
Oh also your reputation is vital!
Not if he's an international applicant trying to work in the US someday. Indeed a degree shaves 12 years off work experience (as far as immegration are concerned).
Obviously everything else is true for landing that job and for the CGI company to want to sponser you. But unless you've been working 12 years they need you to have a degree to 'land you' as far as immegration are concerned.

Saurus
02-03-2009, 08:02 PM
I find Emily Carr students more rounded. They have better artistic eyes than the majority of VFS artists. VFS doesn't have art background requirements, they only require you to have the money. Only those who are already good in art accelerate in VFS. Plus, some companies in particular game companies with corporate background requires people to have bachelor degree to to move up to position like producers...which VFS doesn't require.

MikeRhone
02-03-2009, 08:38 PM
I find Emily Carr students more rounded.


As artists, not in 3d/CG.


VFS doesn't have art background requirements, they only require you to have the money.


These days plenty of talented people walk into VFS with enough cash. They pick the most promising from that pool. Cash is the cover charge, but you have to prove you're not going to be dead weight.


Only those who are already good in art accelerate in VFS.

People with strong art backgrounds have the advantage in areas that are considered strictly artistic such as Modeling or Matte painting. Rigging, Effects, Comp and (In my opinion) even character animation evens the playing field slightly.



Plus, some companies in particular game companies with corporate background requires people to have bachelor degree...*snip*

Degrees come into play when looking for work internationally. As does citizenship and residency. Emily Carr would help you with the former, not the latter. To get work in Vancouver, residency and citizenship is the key. I have worked with exceptionally few people that have degrees.


*snip*... to move up to position like producers

You are just as likely to become a producer from going through a business school as you are an art school.

nkr10
02-03-2009, 10:08 PM
Having attended Emily Carr myself, I can say its a great Fine Arts School, in a fantastic location. I cant speak for there 3d program, or its requirements, but Fine Arts at Emily Carr is not easy to get into without a substantial background in art, or some serious self taught skills.


So do you recomend Emily Carr for a bachelor and a good preparation for VFS?
I see that you are studying at VFS, do you applied there more with your empirical knowledge or more with the knowledge adquired in Emily Carr?

Im not excellent in drawing, but i learn easily with practice, and what i want to do is work more in the computer than drawing.

Wongedan
02-03-2009, 10:59 PM
Hi, im a 18 year student and since 2months ago ive been wondering about my future and i cant make up my mind.


Im looking for a school for 3D animation and vissual effects, im aplying for EMILY CARR in vancouver, but my real goal is to go to VFS or GOBELINS.
The problem is that VFS is just a diploma and i want to have a bachelor documents, just for any situation that it would be helpfull, like if i want to teach, or if a job oportunity ask me for it.

If somebody can advice me i will apreciate it very much. I have 2 principal options:


EMILY CARR - Vancouver, CANADA

FULL SAIL - Florida, USA

What do you think about that schools?

And in terms of animation learning what would you choose: Canada or USA?

If you have any other suggested school please tell me.

Thanks ;)

depends on where you want to work. if you have a time to spend
get real school with bachelor on it.

Saurus
02-04-2009, 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saurus
I find Emily Carr students more rounded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRhone
As artists, not in 3d/CG.

You should go to emily carr and check out their stuff during graduation day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saurus
VFS doesn't have art background requirements, they only require you to have the money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRhone
These days plenty of talented people walk into VFS with enough cash. They pick the most promising from that pool. Cash is the cover charge, but you have to prove you're not going to be dead weight.

That's right. If you got talent, you should excel in VFS. I feel sorry for those people who spends thousands of dollars and go no where because they don't have what it takes to be in the industry. VFS doesn't have any screening. All they require is that you have the money and I think that is wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saurus
Only those who are already good in art accelerate in VFS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRhone
People with strong art backgrounds have the advantage in areas that are considered strictly artistic such as Modeling or Matte painting. Rigging, Effects, Comp and (In my opinion) even character animation evens the playing field slightly.

Don't know about rigging, but Effect and comp can use a bit of artistic knowledge. When you take composition, colour theory, etc, I think knowledge of art helps. Character animators can use a bit of acting knowledge. I know a couple of animators who took acting because of animation. To think about it, it would help riggers if they know a bit of acting since they have to mimic facial movements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saurus
Plus, some companies in particular game companies with corporate background requires people to have bachelor degree...*snip*


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRhone
Degrees come into play when looking for work internationally. As does citizenship and residency. Emily Carr would help you with the former, not the latter. To get work in Vancouver, residency and citizenship is the key. I have worked with exceptionally few people that have degrees.

Actually it's happening in Vancouver too. In order to be a producer at Radical, you have to have a degree. And I wouldn't be surprise if this is the same case for EA because they also have a corporate structure. Small FX studios , which Vancouver has a lot and privately owned game companies doesn't require any sort of degree.

I least if you don't make in the industry, I sure that degree should help you else where.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saurus
*snip*... to move up to position like producers


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRhone
You are just as likely to become a producer from going through a business school as you are an art school.

Read my comment above

circusboy
02-04-2009, 08:12 PM
Im not excellent in drawing, but i learn easily with practice, and what i want to do is work more in the computer than drawing.
Hmm the art school that I got my BFA at did have entry portfolio requirements.
I would thinks EC would be the same. Do you have anything like one?

nkr10
02-04-2009, 09:05 PM
Hmm the art school that I got my BFA at did have entry portfolio requirements.
I would thinks EC would be the same. Do you have anything like one?



Yes, one of the requirements is a portfolio with 15 works.. I do have a portfolio, well I think i'm missing like 4 works but this week ill be working on it. The advantage is that it could include works like photography, sculpture, computer art(photshop, etc.)..

But, how strictly is the revision of it (when you sent yours)?

VisualNightmare
02-05-2009, 12:53 AM
So do you recomend Emily Carr for a bachelor and a good preparation for VFS?
I see that you are studying at VFS, do you applied there more with your empirical knowledge or more with the knowledge adquired in Emily Carr?

Im not excellent in drawing, but i learn easily with practice, and what i want to do is work more in the computer than drawing.

Emily Carr, or any art school is good preparation for a learning environment like VFS, in my opinion. I cant speak for the program at VFS, as I'm still a few months from starting. But my advice would be to figure out how you learn and what type of learning environment you need to get better at what you do. Then decide on a school that best meets your need.

nkr10
11-03-2009, 03:56 AM
I knew someone who was expelled because he did a prosthetic makeup appliance for one assignment.


A quick preamble, now I'm studing at Emily Carr, it is just the foundation year but I like it, I've been improving my drawing skills and also my english, but the latter is still bad.

Is that true? that somebody was expelled for that? a teachers told us that a girl did a sculpture out of crap for an assignment and for another "project" she ran naked carring something damaging the walls, then she stopped at the front desk, she peed and menstruated on the floor; and of course recorded everything. And I think she is still there, she just got a lecture for not filling a form-permit to use the building instalations.

googboog8
11-03-2009, 04:48 AM
a teachers told us that a girl did a sculpture out of crap for an assignment and for another "project" she ran naked carring something damaging the walls, then she stopped at the front desk, she peed and menstruated on the floor; and of course recorded everything. And I think she is still there, she just got a lecture for not filling a form-permit to use the building instalations.

thats gross... :surprised

i'm glad i went to vfs

Karnageddon
11-03-2009, 05:00 AM
If you really want a bachelor's degree, don't rule out Sheridan College in Ontario (I think it's the only one in Canada that offers a bachelor's in animation). I would suggest you check out their site and gallery and decide if its something you're interested in as well.

kelgy
11-03-2009, 05:15 AM
And I think she is still there, she just got a lecture for not filling a form-permit to use the building instalations.

** I'm glad I wasnt there. I know in the mid 90s someone had made a lamp out of a road killed cat and I heard someone else in Foundation did a project where they set up a car battery with a bucket of water and shot themselves in the arm(with a gun) and then dared people to knock over the bucket and electrocute them. I assume that sort of thing goes on more in Foundation year than later on.

I think it tolerates traditional art if its "clever" but if its "craft" they dont like it-although the guy who got expelled was in the 1980s. And the guy who told me about it teached at VFS later on.
EC still doesnt have a traditional plasticine figure sculpting and moldmaking course according to their calender(unlike Toronto's major art school). EC used to be Vancouver School of Art--always wondered why they changed the name, seems kind of exclusive to name it after a particular artist.
If it was accomodating to traditional art then it wouldnt have such competition from VFS and others. And now its a university isnt it?


Well the campus is nice at least.
If you drop into Dragonspace, look for some mermaid birdbaths--I know the artist well. ;)

nkr10
11-03-2009, 05:41 AM
** I'm glad I wasnt there. I know in the mid 90s someone had made a lamp out of a road killed cat and I heard someone else in Foundation did a project where they set up a car battery with a bucket of water and shot themselves in the arm(with a gun) and then dared people to knock over the bucket and electrocute them. I assume that sort of thing goes on more in Foundation year than later on.


EC still doesnt have a traditional plasticine figure sculpting and moldmaking course according to their calender(unlike Toronto's major art school). EC used to be Vancouver School of Art--always wondered why they changed the name, seems kind of exclusive to name it after a particular artist.
If it was accomodating to traditional art then it wouldnt have such competition from VFS and others. And now its a university isnt it?
Well the campus is nice at least.
If you drop into Dragonspace, look for some mermaid birdbaths--I know the artist well. ;)



That is sick :|, I have to ask that to somebody in the school, there are some strange things there and all the school is full with painting and graffiti (that is not always nice, specially if you are new, as me the first time I saw the campus).

Is Dragonspace the store next to the public market? It is full with medieval and fairy art right? I've seen it just passing by, I will go there tomorrow thank you.

And I will start sculpture this week but I'm not sure about the focus of the course.

kelgy
11-03-2009, 06:49 AM
That is sick :|, I have to ask that to somebody in the school, there are some strange things there and all the school is full with painting and graffiti (that is not always nice, specially if you are new, as me the first time I saw the campus).

Is Dragonspace the store next to the public market? It is full with medieval and fairy art right? I've seen it just passing by, I will go there tomorrow thank you.

And I will start sculpture this week but I'm not sure about the focus of the course.

**yep that's the store.

Hopefully they will let you use oil based clay and not just ceramic clay in the course.

Jettatore
11-03-2009, 11:20 PM
nevermind, didn't realize how old this thread was.

nkr10
11-04-2009, 03:31 AM
I hope so, and I went to the store and didn't find the birdbath " ( haha but I really liked all the stuff there.

kelgy
11-04-2009, 04:08 AM
Yeah they might have sold out their stock or not get them in the Fall and Winter. Too bad the artist doesnt make any money off them after getting paid for the prototype. ;0

Neat store aint it.

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