Help with Meshsmooth (Keep hard lines)

[sledgeweb]

Maybe I shouldn't remove the extra vert/edge? I just tried it and it removes that corner polygon if I do (after using cut to add the two new edges).

Perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way?

[NRat]

I dont think that chamfer is a good solution. You'd better try weight of vertices and crease of edges. I think it will help, but i can mistaken... :)

[holosynthetic]

the last image is the correct way to do it

[sledgeweb]

OK, but do I remove the existing vert? I treid that and it deleted the corner polygon. Or do I leaving it there... making three edges at the corner?

[SimonReeves]

read this

http://www.danielbuck.net/door_tut/doortut.htm

and this

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40373

and this

http://www.enriconencini.com/tutorials.htm

this too

http://www.munkmotion.com/tutorials/nsx/1a.htm

:thumbsup:

[visualboo]

How about this? There's always about 12 different ways to do something but here's one way.

1.27mb SWF (http://www.visualboo.com/movies/helpers/corners.html)

Hope that helped :beer:

[ToddD]

Nice vid Boo! Don't know if you have used it or not, but solidify would eliminate some of those steps:) Sledgeweb, if you made the identical shape you made, and instead of chamfering it all at once, did each side 1 at a time, the edges would form the desired result. Then you could just add a solidify modifier to give depth, and you are done!:beer:

[holosynthetic]

Originally posted by sledgeweb
OK, but do I remove the existing vert? I treid that and it deleted the corner polygon. Or do I leaving it there... making three edges at the corner?

to take out an edge without deleting a polygon simply select the edge and press the remove button while in edit edge mode for editable poly

[visualboo]

Originally posted by Tbonz816
Nice vid Boo! Don't know if you have used it or not, but solidify would eliminate some of those steps:) Sledgeweb, if you made the identical shape you made, and instead of chamfering it all at once, did each side 1 at a time, the edges would form the desired result. Then you could just add a solidify modifier to give depth, and you are done!:beer:
Yup... there's another way.

2 down..... 10 to go :D

That way is pretty clean btw... except it give some of the sides some weird shapes that are a little harder to control.

[sledgeweb]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Oddly enough, I did everything over, and this time, after I detached the polygons for the shape above, and applied a meshsmooth, it worked correctly. I didn't even chamfer any edges or anything. Weird... anyone know why this would happen (see images below)

Visualboo... interesting video, really helped. I used your idea of chamfering the corner edge in the green part below (basically a cockpit and windshield). It seem to work, but I get some funny geometry... is this OK?

Also, what was happening when you were selecting the verts far away from each other and hitting connect-1? Were you adding a new edge... or... well, I just really didn't understand what you were doing there.

Anywho... here's my progress. Is this looking correct, or is my technique bad? Sorry for the lack of detail on that last image...

Thx,
Sledge
http://www.cubit.net/3dwip/lambdaR2.gif

[EricCartman]

I think you need to weld some vertices...

[visualboo]

wow... it's hard to see what your doing cause it's not very zoomed in.

Also, what was happening when you were selecting the verts far away from each other and hitting connect-1? Were you adding a new edge... or... well, I just really didn't understand what you were doing there.
I was connecting those verts with a single edge to clean things up for a meshsmooth.

That poly would have had 6 sides but after I added that edge it made two 4 sided polys... just to keep things nice.

[sledgeweb]

VB-

Thanks for the feeback. I'll post zoomed in pics when I get home today. I'm decent at box modeling, but smoothing things is something I'm still learning. This shape is a bit odd for me because it has some very angular, flat surfaces, and also some curved surfaces (fyi, this is the cockpit section of a Lamda Shuttle from SW). I though it would be a good learning project... not too hard because it has a lot of flat, hard surfaces... like the wings, but challenging for me because it does have some smooth, rounded surfaces.

So... what I'm attempting now is to create the cockpit with the top of it rounded and the windshield detached. Hopefully I'm doing it the right way...

Any and all pointers are welcome.

-Sledge

[Marcel]

I've done a small explanation once on hard surface modelling with subdivisions:

http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=413#3480

If you follow the principles it's real easy...just put in the 'control' edges ALL the time. The downside is that you probably won't get there by chamfering, so you'll have to build a large portion of your mesh by hand. But with smart scaling and cloning it isn't that much work.

Proof of concept: :)
http://members.rott.chello.nl/mvijfwinkel/revolver.JPG

http://members.rott.chello.nl/mvijfwinkel/revolver_wire.gif

See that every hard corner has the same edge layout? one main edge and two edges besides that to keep the shape in control...
(ignore the barrel, it has more edges than it needs. The front used to be a bit more curved but I took that out)

[sledgeweb]

Nice. How exactly do I go about putting the control edges in? Say I have a regular cube, how would I insert the control edges to round off just one surface of the cube? (I'm at work right now and can't get to MAX or I'd fool around with it...)

BTW - That revolver rocks!

I understand the principle on the cube... I just have trouble applying it to something I'm doing. Perhaps posting closeups of my object will help...

[l7d]

say you have an 'editable poly' select 'edges' and cut from the rollout thinger, then by hand you need to cut lines wherever u need them

[xynaria]

The method used by Marcel is a pretty much guaranteed method and calls out for a tool to do what is sometimes reffered to as solid camfering.. I know Mesh Tools is supposed to be able to do this but I never managed to get it to do so workably. Using Max's camfering will only end in tears and Max's smoothing does have real problems in being able to sharpen using smoothing groups when the edge angles of the hard edges are other than 90 degrees to each other. The problem with the 'solid camfering method' is that you do inevitably have to use more polys. Smoothing groups can do what you want without that overhead but will fail in certain circumstances or cause more problems than they solve. Personally I never use vertex weighting due to he mesh distortion it causes. Ideally the smplest method would be to be able to define edges as sharp or smooth and I'm lead to believe that both XSI and Cinema 4D have this ability though whether it works in all instances I would like to know. Certainly it is a consideration that Max should perhaps have considered. Nendo certainly had it. :)

[Marcel]

I don't use vertex weigthing either, mainly because it is not very predictable. You have to jump back and forward and mess around too much.

When I build a mesh I generally start with a single polygon. I start cloning edges to create the basic shape and trying to think a bit where the control edges should go.
Usually I forget some so I have to cut those in afterwards.

After I have the basic shape I make the 'control' edges all around. (third image)
When that is done I can select the outer edges give the object some depth (also making sure that I put in another control edge).

Sometimes you end up with a lot of edges without a use, if the object is perfectly flat at that point you can go crazy with triangles and remove those unnescessary edges. If the object is curved your probably better of spreading those edges out evenly (like the edges on the right side of the object).
I should have spread out the edges on the top of the object too, forgot that :).

Removing those extra edges is good because it will make your object lighter. If you can't remove them spreading them out is good to prevent bumps in your model.

If you put the meshsmooth on top it's best to use 2 subdivisons. You can use 1 subdivision, but then you'll have some smoothing problems near the corners of the model (long flat polygons meeting very short polygons with an angle don't smooth well).

I agree that in the beginning it is sometimes hard to see how the edges should run, but if you've done a few objects this way it's a piece of cake. :)

http://members.rott.chello.nl/mvijfwinkel/building.GIF

[Marcel]

Also take a look at this thread, this is really taking it to the max!

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=55577

(Scroll down for the wireframes)

[sledgeweb]

OK... so if you make the cuts by hand, how to you keep them all straight? On the cube example, all the control edges were parallel to the cubes edges. I suppose you could use slice plane... but that might be difficult on more complex shapes. I did create a cube and cut the control edges in as shown, but they were not lined up precisely.... it still worked, but probably not as well as it should.

[visualboo]

What version of max do you have?

[sledgeweb]

Max 5...

[Marcel]

About keeping the edges straight: it depends on how you do it.

Making the chamfered cube for example is most easily done by extruding faces. That way they new edges are automatically straight.

Other times you just cut them at the right spot, or move them afterwards. When you are cloning edges you can use the transfor gizmo to move them along a certain axis. Remember that you don't need absolute prescision all the time, you don't need to line up every edge pixel-perfect.

There is no magic trick (or nobody has told me yet :) ), in any case a lot of tweaking is nessecary.

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