TESLA Update

[Vizfizz]

Here's the text:

Hello All,

I want to give you all a brief update on the 3D Modeling Software, known to many of you as Tesla, that we have in development. We here at EITG, apologize for the delay in this communication, but we wanted to make sure our information was correct and confirmed before providing further details.

Nokia, the developer of the QT development framework has made significant changes in the licensing structure and levels of agreement. When EITG originally licensed the software from Trolltech, the previous owner of QT, we were structured under a fairly economical solution that would allow us several years of development. When our renewal occurred this program no longer existed within Nokia. However, rumor was stirring that Nokia would offer a free Open Source version under LGPL. This rumor was found to be true and Nokia announced this offering January 2009. This change has considerably delayed the development cycle. However, the cost savings of moving to the LGPL were too significant to pass up.

Also, as many of you noticed a very large company has trademarked the Tesla name. This is also under consideration and is currently being investigated. EITG wants to make sure any product release will not have to go through multiple branding changes that could delay product releases and cause any legal issues.

Thank you for patience and consideration and we will continue to provide you updates about the development of our 3D modeling program as they come available.

Best regards,

Brad Parscale

[mike33]

What's "QT"?


Thanks for the news.

Mike

[Vizfizz]

Everyone's programming lesson for the day:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_toolkit

[Vizfizz]

More on the QT situation:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/nokia-qt-lgpl-switch-huge-win-for-cross-platform-development.ars

[mike33]

QT: sounds like a breadth of good news for EITG

TESLA Name: Time for a new naming contest? Or keep it simple and call it the EIAS "Modeler" Ver. 8 and focus on what's in the software and not on how to name it.

Back to work...

~Mike

[Vizfizz]

This event is a huge boon for EITG. The new framework will allow EIM (going back to this for now) to save a bundle of money licensing wise and it will promote greater ease of use in the programming arena. Compiling gets easier cross platform. Of course the advent of this news means yet another delay for EIM, but we wanted a modern application and its better to address this now rather than later.

As for the name...well....I kinda saw this one coming.

[cjberg]

All hail EIMv2! (the right name, imho)

Well, it was an honest update... gotta give Brad kudos for that... sounds like good news for EITG, and they can sure use some.

would still love an estimated timeframe. 1 month, 3 months...

[Vizfizz]

Brad told me development is still progressing..not stopped. So that's good. I'll see what I can do about getting a timeframe.

[Vizfizz]

Oh...I'd also suspect that the money saved here, licensing wise, will also reflect as better prices to the end user. That's always appreciated too.

[juanxer]

So it was Qt!!! Well: one important thing to note is that Trolltech, last time I heard of them, were steadfastly incorporating the Cocoa plumbing needed to allow for multiplatform 64bit Qt code to work on OS X. So it ought to allow EITG's new Tesla framework some kind of route to 64bitness, if needed.
http://www.qtsoftware.com/developer/preview-qt-4.5

Going out on a limb, I'd say it could allow for Unix/Linux ports, if they merited the effort.


It would be sad to lose the "Tesla" name. What about "Bowie" (who played Tesla in The Prestige. Also, knife-related :D )?

[mike33]

Another question, will the QT news affect EIAS and Xpressionist in any way?

Also, I thought a while ago someone had created "sliders" similar to Animation Masters for their animation work. Does anyone recall who did this and if it was a custom program... I can't remember any of the specifics...

Thank you,

Mike

[DickM]

yes, would have been nice if XP had included sliders as part of the interface. I always had to create and program my own custom sliders in EIM/EIAS. Another time consuming part of EI that should be made easier and faster. Using the morph window sliders was not intuitive at all.

[mike33]

What did you use to create the sliders?

Thanks,

Mike

[DickM]

I used to create splines in EIM to act as sliders/controllers. Then import, then code. Too many steps but it worked. These are the kinds of updates I'm wanting in EI. Things to make stuff like this easier. New "TOOLS"!

Here's the final rig for Captain Electric in EIAS:

http://www.morleyarts.com/post/hero-facerig01.mov


Here's a rendering of the animation:

http://www.morleyarts.com/post/super-02.mov

[Vizfizz]

Richard,

Marvelous work (bravo!) and oh such a hassle to currently create in EI. So much of what you've done here I take for granted in Maya. You've got to create all the control sliders externally, import them, and then write all the necessary XP code to each slider in order to create the necessary relationships needed to drive the rig. It must have taken you forever to set this up properly. But the quality of animation is clear. Nice secondary motion in the chin. Nice sense of personality.

I can't help compare functionality like this vs yet another render feature and ask the question.. which draws more attention for the new user to EIAS?

[DickM]

Thanks Brian, that means a lot!

Yes, like you with Maya, after redoing the Captains rig completely in C4D and having this all as part of the gui and ready to go.....it's frustrating looking back at the capts days in EI. It did take a LONG time in EI, but also shows it's possible in EIAS to do cool and easy to animate rigs. I just wish it was made easier. The Captain still renders WAY faster in Camera of course! How I love Camera :love:

Can sliders be that hard to put into EIAS? I mean Morph window uses them right. EIAS should add the ability to make a control panel and add sliders to it which are then controllable via Xp. Brian, does this sound feasible?

Oh, btw, i really thought this was the V8 thread. I did not mean to hijack the Tesla thread if you wanna move this post.

[Vizfizz]

Yes.. I suppose we shouldn't hijack this thread. I'll move your post and question over to another thread.

[mike33]

As always Richard, great work on the Captain.

It's my fault the topic changed... I was curious if QT would migrate to other EIAS apps.

I saw some of your other animated captian files on the EITG site, your are certainly making good progress with facial animation.

Cheers, and thanks for showing the slider work.

~Mike

[arketype]

Can sliders be that hard to put into EIAS? ... EIAS should add the ability to make a control panel and add sliders to it which are then controllable via Xp.

This is what Kontroller was meant to do... eventually.
Right now it only gives manual numeric input.

But Jens has talked about adding sliders to have this sort of easy control over custom XP parameters.



I have experimented with these types of XP rigs too....

Maybe there would be a way to develop a "Custom Slider Toolkit" that had basic sliders already constructed with basic code functionality, so that the sliders only needed to be linked to the control parameters. This would save a lot of setup time.

If anyone else is interested I would like to discuss this possibility.

Dave

[Vizfizz]

I think that's a great idea Dave. I mentioned a similar idea in the animation work around thread. Kontroller is a start but it's limited to 5 channels. (if I remember correctly) The average rig requires dozens more than that. Sure you can add more kontrollers but we should just be able to add custom channels to any object or a null and then tie those channels into an customer interface-slider generator that can work with XP or set driven key.

[Vizfizz]

If one were to stick to a plugin idea rather than a null it's what I envisioned as a secondary purpose for Trestle. Imagine fusing Trestle with Kontroller except now instead of trestle tracking cv points for animation it generates custom channels to tie in with XP and gives the user the ability to draw a custom icon for the representing channels. Trestle can already generate as many channels as it wants for each cv the user draws. Well if you provide a function switch from cvs to custom channels the user can create a channel repository for whatever he wants and can have a custom icon to boot.

[jimjam]

Brian,

Please do get Brad to provide a rough timeframe on Tesla.

JimM

[Vizfizz]

I'll do my best.

[cjberg]

I used to create splines in EIM to act as sliders/controllers. Then import, then code. Too many steps but it worked. These are the kinds of updates I'm wanting in EI. Things to make stuff like this easier. New "TOOLS"!
Yea Rich... nice work on those sliders :hmm:

[arketype]

I think that's a great idea Dave. I mentioned a similar idea in the animation work around thread. Kontroller is a start but it's limited to 5 channels. (if I remember correctly) The average rig requires dozens more than that. Sure you can add more kontrollers but we should just be able to add custom channels to any object or a null and then tie those channels into an customer interface-slider generator that can work with XP or set driven key.

The biggest current issue with using geometry to fake interface elements is the lack of support for mouse events.

You can drag an object around (a slider) but there is no detection for "mouse down", or "mouse up", actions. These are entirely necessary for a full "heads-up" GUI.

I have been able to create not just sliders, but switches to turn things on and off.
Also multiple position "selectors" which can be dragged over wireframe icons to select one of many presets. By attaching these to a Control Camera you can even simulate elements that turn on and off to give some user interface feedback.

So there are some very real possibilities for creating custom productivity tools within EI right now. Obviously this would also be possible as a plugin (Kontroller 2?) or even an API enhancement for Animator for some more advanced/ sophisticated control interfaces.

Honestly, the coding is not much of an issue... Most slider type controls are fairly simple assuming you are controlling a parameter with a simple linear or geometric value change based on the slider position. Creating the geometry for the interface elements can be a real pain in the neck, however. This is the biggest hurdle for adding these kinds of controls using custom geometry and XP. So a kit of preset parts (with the xp code that drives their basic behavior) would seem to be a good start.

What kinds of controls would people most like to see?

[Vizfizz]

Well typically when tooling an animation rig there could be any number of controllers present. Generally they're just simple geometric wire shapes. Take a look at the previs rig tooled for the "Kirk" character I did on Star Trek. Rigged with The Setup Machine, this rig was constructed quite rapidly. However the custom "C" controller contains specialized Set Driven Key channels to drive blendshape targets for the face, skin tone, hair style, and various "species" triggers to change this base "Kirk" figure into various human races and other aliens like vulcans and so forth.

[cjberg]

You can drag an object around (a slider) but there is no detection for "mouse down", or "mouse up", actions. These are entirely necessary for a full "heads-up" GUI.

Technically accurate, there is no mouse down/up... but it is not necessary as XP sliders are active when moved... so you can move a slider and get realtime feedback. It would be very simple to create a GUI for XP to achieve this, if it does not already exist...

Cj

[DickM]

Well, the ability to create a slider similar to the one in the morph window. Being able to set it's min and max intuitively would be a nice start. And an easier way to choose what channels to drive rather than typing in code. Some kind of drag n drop node system would be nice but for that there'd probably need to be a new or another part of an interface for xp.

[cjberg]

Well, the ability to create a slider similar to the one in the morph window. Being able to set it's min and max intuitively would be a nice start. And an easier way to choose what channels to drive rather than typing in code. Some kind of drag n drop node system would be nice but for that there'd probably need to be a new or another part of an interface for xp.

Writing an intermediary plug that provided a GUI and controlled an XP script wouldnt be difficult...

[arketype]

Technically accurate, there is no mouse down/up... but it is not necessary as XP sliders are active when moved... so you can move a slider and get realtime feedback. It would be very simple to create a GUI for XP to achieve this, if it does not already exist...

Cj

Right CJ.

But there are other types of interface controls that are impossible.
I tried to emulate the navigation widget for google earth and found it impossible due to these issues.

Here are some links for two of the interfaces I created that were successful....

http://www.arketypedesign.com/SpecularArrayUpdate.mov
http://www.arketypedesign.com/Heliodon.mov

As you can see there are lots of opportunities for custom controls and interfaces.

Let's discuss the tools people would like to have then we can figure out the best way to implement them ;)

Dave

[DickM]

Writing an intermediary plug that provided a GUI and controlled an XP script wouldnt be difficult...

Then make it so! :bowdown:

;)

[mike33]

Right CJ.

But there are other types of interface controls that are impossible.
I tried to emulate the navigation widget for google earth and found it impossible due to these issues.

Here are some links for two of the interfaces I created that were successful....

http://www.arketypedesign.com/SpecularArrayUpdate.mov
http://www.arketypedesign.com/Heliodon.mov

As you can see there are lots of opportunities for custom controls and interfaces.

Let's discuss the tools people would like to have then we can figure out the best way to implement them ;)

Dave

Wow Dave. Those are some really cool set ups, this is the stuff I need to learn to do what I'd like to do. Is this all done through XP? and are these setups a perminent part of your work flow now?

Also, didn't someone use Python to help create sliders once? ...not sure...

Really glad to see this conversation and examples, thanks a lot for showing how you guys do your work...

Mike

[FelixCat]

Dave, CJBerg... i want to be like you when i grow up. ;D
I don´t underestand how you can do such things.
FelixCat

[arketype]

Wow Dave. Those are some really cool set ups, this is the stuff I need to learn to do what I'd like to do. Is this all done through XP? and are these setups a perminent part of your work flow now?

Also, didn't someone use Python to help create sliders once? ...not sure...

Really glad to see this conversation and examples, thanks a lot for showing how you guys do your work...

Mike

Yes, this is just Xp and some imported geometry. EI does not currently support Python scripting.

There are numerous tricks necessary to create the illusion of an on screen interactive interface, but basically the position of a control is used to drive some parameter through XP code.

The code is generally very simple. I am not an experienced programmer by any means and you can see what I was able to do. I think a more accomplished programmer like CJ could certainly do more sophisticated things.

What is shown here were my attempts to create some useful tools for my Lighting Studio products over at Paralumino.

I think the main idea was that custom interface elements could be more intuitive and useful than just a generic slider. A linear slider makes little sense and can be awkward to control rotation, for example. User feedback and interface design come into play, to help the user understand and use the controls.

[arketype]

I released this previously, but I'll post about it again...

This is a small project which allows rotation of GI skymaps, RT reflection Maps, and RT Refraction maps simultaneously with a single controller object.

It is very simple, and includes instructions.


http://www.arketypedesign.com/Downloads/SkyDomeController.zip

Have fun everybody :)
Dave

[A.C. Farley]

Hi Richard,

I like that a lot. Nice.

-Craig

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