Character: Jenny

[Lordrych]

hey if your wondering why your thread was deleted, read the rules before you post ok!

Rych

[agreenster]

Need more to criticize.

Keep working...

[golem]

hey! is a very strange way to start modeling something... we could say that is a very strange shape (i mean, i can recognize eyes, nose, mouth).

let's try to be serious.
why don't u try to model it with patches instead of poly? i see u don't use the classic "box way", maybe u will find it easier and closer to your style.

golem

[visgoth]

Well, from what I can see the nose is looking okay. From this angle the eyes appear to be too far apart (one width between them is the standard).

Be sure to post a screenshot of the mesh too, otherwise I suspect this thread will be deleted.

[varius]

golem: Strange? I learned it when I was modeling Joan Arc with tutorial... And patches? I used it one time, it wasnt good... but I'm little better in max now so maybe I will try again? I dont now:)

visgoth: Once again problem with eyes... It will be corrected with next update...

Here is little update:
http://free.poltronic.net/~varius/Jenny/lights7.jpg

And wires:
http://free.poltronic.net/~varius/Jenny/wire.JPG

[eirenicon]

Originally posted by golem
why don't u try to model it with patches instead of poly? i see u don't use the classic "box way", matbe u will find it easier and closer to your style.

No, he's not using the classic "box way", he's using the classic "poly modeling way", modeling poly-by-poly. It's a fairly popular method, and the Joan of Arc tutorial shows it very clearly. I would heavily recommend against using patches for organics, especially something like a face. They're just painful.

varius, I've nothing to critique at this point, maybe when you've got more volume to the head :)

[Preacher]

Originally posted by timothyD
No, he's not using the classic "box way", he's using the classic "poly modeling way", modeling poly-by-poly. It's a fairly popular method, and the Joan of Arc tutorial shows it very clearly. I would heavily recommend against using patches for organics, especially something like a face. They're just painful.

varius, I've nothing to critique at this point, maybe when you've got more volume to the head :)

I know of the Joan of Arch tut, and I was wondering if anyone new of a good comprehensive tutorial that gives the "box way"?

[bonko]

Good lord. Man the technique you are using is probably the most tedious unnecessary way to model as possible. Contrary to a post above, this technique sucks, unless you are a Buddhist Monk attempting to reach Zen. I would definately either model using sub-d modeling techniques, there is a forum on this site in the max section that addresses this.

The way you are modeling now is completely unintuative and really, really slow. You do much better by creating a lower poly cylinder and start connecting edges, cutting, and pushing and pulling verts.

If you don't like poly modeling and you are using max, spline model and create you surface with Surface tools. Hey in the future I think it would be a good idea to upload something substantially more complete. I mean are we supposed to give you pointers on the nose. Its certainly a significant landmark of the face but...

Not trying to give you a hard time. Anyways hey do things smarter not harder because in art production its all about speed and accuracy and quality. Cheers, I'll be waiting to see the new models you create.

[Wiro]

Well the method used IS subD, it just uses a lowpoly cage that's being created poly by poly instead of by cutting up a box. Both ways are totally viable and depending on how you prefer to model they can both be quick.
I myself prefer the boxmodelling way but as the Joan of Arc tutorial shows it's works just as well poly by poly.

Preacher, I have a boxmodel head tutorial on my site that might be of use.

As for the head itself, I think you should have waited with uploading such an early WIP. The mouth and early nose look very good but it's hard to judge if everything works well together without seeing at least a rough approximation of the whole head.
The eyes don't look right but it's hard to tell at the moment.
You might also consider modelling the mouth slightly parted. It'll make it easier to select verts, UV map and skin later.

Wiro

[ctaborda]

shouldn't this go in WIP ?..

Read the RULES.

[Wiz]

erm ,perhpas you havent' read the rules?
They wip forum is ment for people to post i guess if they are
not intrested in true crits ,this forum is ment as a -more serious wip and gallery forum i would say? it's ment for true critics ,and only to assit the artist ,so he posted in the correct place.

anyways ,so far it looks like a good start ,but it is a bit too early i assume ,would love to see it develop further.

[Troll]

you should work more on the edgeloops. Check out this image Lildragon posted in another thread. I found it very helpful

http://www.cbsp.com.br/3d/Pictures/Daniel/Edgeloop_e_1600x1200.jpg

[varius]

Hey... sorry for no updates or respond,adn thx for replys... but I'm in England/London right now, learning and practising my english:) I'll be in house in month, so there will be no updates in July... See Ya

[varius]

Okey, I'm back and I've done some updates:
http://free.poltronic.net/~varius/Jenny/jenny.jpg

http://free.poltronic.net/~varius/Jenny/jenny2.jpg

Not much...still working on her:)

See Ya All

[varius]

Hi all. I got back to this project after two months and here are results:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/Jenny/jennyA.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/Jenny/jennyB.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/Jenny/jennyL.jpg

I worked on edgeloops too:

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/Jenny/jennyW.jpg

Give me some crits & tips!

[varius]

Litle update:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/Jenny/jenny8.jpg

Give some critz!

[varius]

Hi... I completly reworked this face. I think that proportions are right(correct me, if not:>). I need also some tips how to make her more realistic Thanks for help:)

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/2.jpg

P.S. There are some bugs on nose that I saw after rendering. I'll try to correct them tomorrow.

[varius]

Front & Side(isometric views)
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/front.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/side.jpg

And some wires:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/wire1.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/wire2.jpg

[J.K.Makowka]

Big improvement on the eyes and the lips, but the nose (exspecially th bottom of it) is just wrong. Also have a look at the eyeballs, the seem too small but the eyelashes also don't connect to the actual eyeballs.
And the jawbone seems to be overemphasized for a woman.

[varius]

Reworked nose, and little improvmnts on eyes

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1a.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/2a.jpg

Anything to improve or should I go with texturing?

[varius]

Can you tell me is the overall shape of head good or not? And is the ear in good position and has good size?

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/sidea.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/fronta.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1b.jpg

[varius]

No replys? I need litle help here:)

[J.K.Makowka]

the ear could be tiny bit lower, and the area on the outer side of the eyes (best seen in the front pic) is too far out.
The nose has improved a lot but the bottom still isn't quite there... too flat and the holes have a strange shape.
Good work so far.

[varius]

Ok. So I moved ear, workend on nose and on some details. Here are results:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/frontb.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/sideb.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/nose.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/nosewire.jpg

If the bottom of nose is still wrong, would someone be so helpful and paint some help lines over render?

[J.K.Makowka]

http://www.metagons.com/images/SI0205.jpg

got this pic from www.metagons.com
I guess it is a picture from Peter Syomka ( http://www.primitivex.com/ ). He is really a great mesh-artist ;)
Metagons is a great source of example wireframes, you should have a look at the wiredepot.
Anyways, see how the bottom of the nose isn't flat at all... thats what is wrong with your mesh.

Otherwise... I still think the area on the outside of the eyes right above the cheekbose looks wrong... hard to explain...it is too flat.

What i really like is the mouth... thats is something you did quite well, and the mouth is one of the hardest parts of the face.

[mayhemation]

general modelling rule i have been taught is to keep triangles to a minimal and use less and let the smooth tool make the curves.

off to a good start.
would start tweaking with features next.

[varius]

ufff... great site. I looked at almost all wires:) Thx for site, going to 3d max now:)

mayhemation: hey... can you tell me what you have in mind writing "features"?" I just dont understand this sentence.

[varius]

hi. worked on nose and on this outer-eye area. That site have a lot renders to learn from:). Here it is:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1c.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/2c.jpg

[varius]

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/nosec.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/nosewirec.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/frontc.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/sidec.jpg

[J.K.Makowka]

Getting better... I am waiting for the next update ;)

[varius]

Hey... not much, just worked on topology. But I feel that something isnt right:( Maybe face should be wider? Help, becouse I dont know what to do:) I Added the texture, it is now easier to see shapes I think.

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/wires.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1d.jpg

[Annuostivix]

maybe the face could be a bit wider, I'm not sure really. I think a reduction in the red veins in the eye could be nice. I accidentally pressed alt+middle mouse button to rotate the view, because I wanted more shots of the wires, hehe. That's how you change the angle in the perspective view in 3ds max, if you aren't familiar with it. hmm, I don't know. The eye area seems to be lacking something but maybe not. it's really hard to tell, because it's really close in my opinion to being just fine. It's really good, so I don't know, I guess only time can tell. Great job so far!

[J.K.Makowka]

The forehead directly above the eyebrows could have a little bit more detail.
The face is pretty long but not in a unnatural way, you might as well leave it that way (or change it.. your choice).

My advise would be to start modeling the ears/integrating them into the head and have a look at it again afterwards.
That gives you a bit of a distance and the ears are a essential part of the head afterall.
Right ow they are way to flat (pressed against the head) that is also what makes the head look quite long.

Edit: Her upperlip is quite long also; maybe move the mouth (and the geometry below it) up a bit? That would make the head less long and the upperlip would be a bit shorter also.

[TheRow]

I must emit when i saw the first image I was like "what are u doing?" and now GOD DANG!.. from that u made this.. keep going I would realy like to see the end result..

[varius]

Hmmm... I played wit it a little bit, here are results:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1e.jpg

There is one thing then annoy me... in 3/4 view everything is all right when i turn around head(front view but with persp.) it is very thin:( Look:



http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/perp.jpg

It is becouse of perspective or my model?

[visgoth]

In the straight on front view it's apparent that the face isn't wide enough. The cheekbones should be pulled out a bit more, as right now the temples are the widest part of the face. Also, shift the temples in slightly, and that should fix the thin look.

[varius]

Ok. Few fixes, some test procedural texture and here she is:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/1f.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/2f.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/sidef.jpg
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/frontf.jpg

There some bugs on surface... I fix it... someday... maybe:)
If you have some more critz on shapes, say it right now:)
I'm going to model some nice body for her:)

[varius]

hi. i've done some texturing. Color map and spec&bump on mouth... but i dont have good photos for textures, where i can find some?

and one more thing: some tips about painting leashes?

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/col1.jpg

[varius]

Hi, I've just done som test hair, must work on thih texture:>:>

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/hair1.jpg

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/hair2.jpg


One with GI:

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/hair3.jpg

[Drakaran]

well, the overall shape of the head isn't bad, but there are some problems: the ears are too thin and the chin needs to be made wider in all directions. you need a LOT more poly hair, layering the sheets and the eye lashes should be pointed and much more random. Basically it's a good shape, just needs much more tweaking.

[varius]

No replys... :(

Anyway I worked on eyeleashes... this time I used spline. i must move some vertex but I havent got time for it now. Here it is:
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/leash1.jpg

EDIT: Sorry Drakaran, i havent seen your post:) I try to improve this things in next update.

[varius]

Hi. I took some reference and played a bit:) Here is the result(there are some bugs on surface, i correct them when i end with proportions).
How is it now? Give some feedback!
http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/new1.jpg

[varius]

No replys, eh? Is it so ugly?:>
Anyway, here is a little update. Changes few things and removed bugs on the surface. REPLY THIS TIME!!!:)

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/new2.jpg

[Quester99]

Not ugly at all, man! Your model is looking great. Her tearduct looks way too red, her ears look fake cuz they are so thin, and her lips are REALLY glossy (unless you meant it that way, the power to you!) Overall, it is a great model :D Keep updating and don't lose heart because ppl don't post replies!!

[varius]

THX Quester99! There lips are meant to look that way. And as for ears - they depend on hairstyle. If the hairs cover ears I wont touch them, if not, I'll redo them.

Now I'll model hair and brows.

Do anyone know some pages where can I find hi-res photos(for a face texture)?

[Drakaran]

face texure? I think pretty much everyone makes their own or finds someone willing to skin. it's not like a "one size fits all" thing.

[varius]

HI. I moved few vertex and add simple skin texture. I think this is last modeling update(if you dont have some big critz). Now I'm going to model body, and then i work on textures and hairs.

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/new4.jpg

[J.K.Makowka]

It looks like the upper half is a bit too big compared to the lower half.
And the ear is way to flat.

Not a bad model so far.

[hpslashluvr]

no, if you are talking about the head, the eyes are halfway down the head, which is correct

[J.K.Makowka]

Originally posted by hpslashluvr
no, if you are talking about the head, the eyes are halfway down the head, which is correct

Sorry, should have made it clearer, I ment it volume wise.
Hope that is clearer ;)

[Garma]

Interesting discussion on the beginning of this thread. Anyway, ears are too flat and I agree about the upper-half of the head (it's that from a man now) but for the rest it's ok. Ow and remove the awefull lipstick :'(

[EdmX]

hey

looking good..
i would work more on the ears and watch out for the eye edge loops..

[varius]

thx for all comments:)

J.K.Makowka: Can you tell me what "volume wise" means?:> Or just put few lines on my picture.

Garma: Do you have some pictures showing "female: upper-half? Becouse I'm not sure what to correct.

EdmX:Yeah... there is something strange in eye edgeloop(it looks like some spiral:>) I dont know how it came out. I try to improve it.

[J.K.Makowka]

What I mean is, the upper head isn't to tall, or to broad or anything, but too big in every direction, kinda hard to explain.

Just select all vertixes from about the middel of the nose up and scale them down uniformly.

[varius]

Ok. I scaled upper half. Here are results, and a few views.

http://poczta.pnet.pl/~varius/new/new5.jpg

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