Female drawing - i'm stuck :-

[DArcy1]

My best advice is this: until you know anatomy backwards and forwards, DO NOT try to draw figures out of your imagination. Find a good reference photo and copy it slavishly, several times if necessary. Use a grid to get it exactly right. This will train your eye as well as your hand. I googled a few, only takes a few minutes (note these images are copyright the photographers, but OK for practice)

Hope that helps

D'Arcy

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2359524/2/istockphoto_2359524-beautiful-woman-looking-down.jpghttp://pro.corbis.com/images/CB060458.jpg?size=572&uid={2311e599-c3a3-45eb-8653-f636c3a8f6c3}

[karan123]

My best advice is this: until you know anatomy backwards and forwards, DO NOT try to draw figures out of your imagination. Find a good reference photo and copy it slavishly, several times if necessary. Use a grid to get it exactly right. This will train your eye as well as your hand. I googled a few, only takes a few minutes (note these images are copyright the photographers, but OK for practice)

Hope that helps

D'Arcy



Thank you for taking the time to reply :)

I'm not actually drawing this girl from my imagination. I was watching a video of someone painting her and I tried to follow the his steps to teach myself how its done. So i'm really just trying to draw someone as you're describing but i'm limited by my knowledge. I hope i'm making sense.

I'd like to get this picture as good as I can before I move on and right now i'm sure I could do better, but where to start? To me, I don't think her face is very feminine and I don't know why (bottom lip maybe? eyebrows? distance between pupils?)

Also, I'm really struggling with the shading. At the moment all i'm doing is using a brush to darken some area's and lighten others (as shown in the attachment). Then I go crazy with the blur tool and adjust the opacity. The problem I have is that I obviously loose all definition. I was wondering if there was a different way to blend the colors together than the blur tool? I tried the smudge tool but the results are too unpredictable.

-Karan

[karan123]

Just an update before I go to bed:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5602/13491460pg8.jpg

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated! :-) This is as far as I got today. What do you think about the proportions? they seem alright to me but maybe i've been staring at the screen for too long!

I'll check back in the morning!

Good night :)

[CybrGfx]

Firstly let me start by saying that i'm not an artist. I just really enjoy drawing! I have been watching a video of someone speed painting on youtube and I thought that it would help my skills as a drawer to try and replicate the end product.Excellent way to learn. Watch and replicate. Anyway, quite early on I stopped taking cues from the movie and tried to further the image myself. But i'm stuck! I think its a lack of knowledge (of my tools and how to draw :) and experience. I'm not actually looking for it to be a replica any more, I think i'm happy with where this is going.Well, you most certainly will NOT help your skills by NOT following the directions. The entire purpose of the video was to teach you something. Something which, by your own admission, you do not know. How on earth do you think you are going to "further" the image, when you cannot even replicate the image with a step by step video showing you how???

You are not stuck because of lack of knowledge, you are stuck because you did not follow the instructions as they were presented to you.

If you are "happy" with where this is going, that is all that basically matters.

From a critique standpoint, though, I think this is bad. It's far too blurry and soft edged, although you can fix it by painting over it. The anatomy is bad, particularly the neck and shoulders, and the features are very boxy and skewed on the face. Perhaps following the video better would eliminate some of these issues, hard to say...I'm using photoshop CS2. Sometimes I think I use to blur tool way to much, I somehow always end up muddying my picture by blurring everything.Then STOP using the blur tool. You see it yourself, so why are you still doing it? Paint at a lower opacity, with a soft edged brush. I was wondering if I could please get some critque on my picture to help me make it better.Yes. Go back, watch that video again, and follow it as closely as possible. Do NOT make ANY variations for one full viewing and practice piece. THEN try it again, and veer off as you personally see fit. THAT is how you will actually learn something and improve your skills. Not just watching the video and then interepreting the directions as you think they should have been written...

~C

[karan123]

Hi CybrGfx!

Thank you for your time!

The entire purpose of the video was to teach you something. Something which, by your own admission, you do not know. How on earth do you think you are going to "further" the image, when you cannot even replicate the image with a step by step video showing you how???

Ah. I might have gotten too carried away thinking I could make it look alright from where I left the video. I still refer to the video now and then to try and understand what he's doing but its a speed painting video and the cursor moves at an incredible speed and I struggle.

From a critique standpoint, though, I think this is bad. It's far too blurry and soft edged, although you can fix it by painting over it. The anatomy is bad, particularly the neck and shoulders, and the features are very boxy and skewed on the face.

Thank you. I am confident I can draw the eyes and hair very clearly, I just haven't attempted it yet. The rest i'm not as confident as nothing i've done so far as given a great result. Are both the shoulders bad? Whats wrong with the neck? Yes I agree that features are boxy on the face. Any suggestions as to how I could tackle these problems?

STOP using the blur tool. You see it yourself, so why are you still doing it? Paint at a lower opacity, with a soft edged brush.

Ah thanks for the tip! I'll try it. I'm actually not very controlled with my mouse and as a result I struggle to keep within borders and show a smooth curve without the pen tool and this is probably why I always resort to the blur tool. But i'll make an effort to slow down and just get it right before I think about blurring it.


Yes. Go back, watch that video again, and follow it as closely as possible. Do NOT make ANY variations for one full viewing and practice piece. THEN try it again, and veer off as you personally see fit. THAT is how you will actually learn something and improve your skills. Not just watching the video and then interepreting the directions as you think they should have been written...

Thanks for the tip! :) I'll see if I have time. I don't feel like its so bad that I need to just drop it and start over? It could be worse than I think and i'm just not seeing it. Maybe i 'll try a bit harder to fix this?

-Karan

[DArcy1]

I would add to this - since you are trying to create a copy of a particular image, using a tiny youtube video really is like doing it from your imagination. There is no way you are going to be able to sort out relative placement of facial features on a face 2" high.

My opinion would be to use the video as a process that you will learn, but in following the video steps use your own reference photo to work from.

D'Arcy

[aeryael]

I would suggest that you smooth her features a little. Her face and muscles are too prominent and masculine. Some shadows are too sharp and give the impression that some areas are bigger or deeper than they should be. Also, her dress seems cutted out from her breasts. It should go with their shape, adjusting to it. Try to paint the breasts first, without the dress, work on their roundness, and then draw the dress on top of them.

-Carol

[karan123]

I would add to this - since you are trying to create a copy of a particular image, using a tiny youtube video really is like doing it from your imagination. There is no way you are going to be able to sort out relative placement of facial features on a face 2" high.

My opinion would be to use the video as a process that you will learn, but in following the video steps use your own reference photo to work from.

D'Arcy

Thanks again! As best I can i'm trying to follow his work flow. But alot of what I was doing involved eyeballing proportions and guessing how things were shaded. After reading other threads I notice that it keeps getting suggested over and over for new artists to draw from grids as opposed to doing what i'm doing, and i'll keep this in mind for next time.

Do you by any chance know of some resources I can learn from that don't require me squinting at a 2" video to try and understand what is happening?

I would suggest that you smooth her features a little. Her face and muscles are too prominent and masculine. Some shadows are too sharp and give the impression that some areas are bigger or deeper than they should be. Also, her dress seems cutted out from her breasts. It should go with their shape, adjusting to it. Try to paint the breasts first, without the dress, work on their roundness, and then draw the dress on top of them.

-Carol

Thank you for commenting! I'll try my best to smooth things out. I've made a little progress on smoothing from the last time I posted please tell me what you think.

As for her dress, thats a very good observation and i'll put some thought into fixing it soon!! Thank you for pointing that out :).

_____________________

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8052/63334339ts2.jpg

There are a few things wrong and incomplete with this picture in my opinion.




Hair! I thought I would be able to draw this no problems but i'm struggling. Are there any good resources for me to learn how to draw good hair with a mouse relatively easily?
Obviously the eyes are incomplete.
Lips and ears need alot of work and the nose could do with a bit more definition.
The collar bone over her right shoulder (on the left in this picture) looks like its too high above the shoulder
Dress is incomplete.
I can't tell if this is looking good as a picture or not. I don't even know if it looks real. I'm regretting winging this a little but I feel like i've learned alot in the process. Any more critique would be great!

-Karan

[DArcy1]

One last thought - I made a few adjustments to her features - it is definitely not perfect but I think it is closer to reality and it may help for the next step.

Cheers

D.

[karan123]

Hey guys,

I have been away from photoshop for a while but i'd like to share the progress I have made since the last update.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4696/47979894.jpg

As you can see, there is still alot to do. The neck is especially messy because I re-drew her anatomy. The superficial muscles of her neck were actually not originating nor attaching in the correct places. The sternocleidomastoid is supposed to attached behind the manubrium anteriorly and ascend into the mastoid process of the skull laterally. The trapezoid muscles are quite prominent for her cranial inclination, and may need to be lowered a bit.

Still struggling with idea's for the hair. I've come up with some really crude mockups which look horrible. I always revert to the pen tool to draw hair and I get a very mechanical result. I can't seem to avoid the pen tool since I don't have a graphics tablet and drawing curvy nice lines by mouse is a nightmare.

All the shading is still very prominent, and i'm planning on reducing this effect all at once a little bit on. As long as the shading is correct relative to each other, then it shouldn't be a problem. If there are certain areas of shading that are too strong, let me know.

Anyway, like a said, still alot to do. Any further suggestions would be appreciated as always. Cheers and sorry for the long interval between replies. I'm going to be spending a fair bit of time on this over the next few days.



Regards,
Karan

[karan123]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/197/49375012.jpg

Update

Ears and body still require alot of work, hair needs to be cleaned up. Face is looking good to me. Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

[karan123]

Update

I'm quite happy with how this looks. I am completely stuck on the dress. I really want to draw her wearing some intricate and impressive but have no idea where to start. Preferably a cloth like material would be best. I know i can't draw cloth though. I'd like to learn how!

Are there any resources I can learn from?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/869/56159204.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/i/56159204.jpg/)

Im also not overly concerned with the background, though suggestions would be great. Its a bit of an after thought so matching a background with the picture may be a bit of a problem.

Comments/Suggestions would be appreciated,
Regards,
Karan

[karan123]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3843/picture3e.png (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/picture3e.png/)

Just another update. The hair needs to be cleaned up again and also I'm not sure at what step I managed to do it but the dress is completely lop-sided. Not sure how to go about fixing that....

Also, the dress remains incomplete.

Again, comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

[DArcy1]

Hi again

This has come a long way from your starting point. I really like the colors. You should feel proud :thumbsup: . However in the sence of polishing it you are coming to the point of diminishing returns here, given the anatomy problems that remain. It is just SO much extra work to have to guess at what something "ought" to look like instead of working from a particular reference photo (of a decent size!). In your shoes I'd make a few quick anatomy shifts as I've done here (mostly moved her ear and softened her jaw), crop it to avoid those shoulders, and start fresh with a new subject.

Go here: http://characterdesigns.com/index.php?sitepage=photosets
or here: http://lockstock.deviantart.com/gallery/
as a starting point - they are a wonderful resourse.

Cheers

D'Arcy

[karan123]

Thanks for the reply!

You might be right. Maybe I should just leave it at that and move onto another picture. It's been fun and I think it looks o.k but here's the final picture. Thanks to everyone who responded with a message.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8841/picture7uaw.png (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/picture7uaw.png/)

[CGmonkey]

The progress has been fantastic, you've gotten excellent help and you are on your way :) It's a wise choice to leave the image, there's a quota on how much you can learn from each image and we don't turn into masters over night, right? :)

I'm gonna try to answer many of the questions I see you're having (even those you don't have yet ;) ). Hopefully this will prove very helpful for you on your art journey. I'm gonna have to break these up in several posts.

Gesture / Idea / Concept

This is the most vital part and for many artists the most fun part. It's the thing you should develop most above all else, this is what makes you a great artist. For many great artists, this part is what takes the longest time, to figure out all the intricate details, overall composition and most of all: what the viewer should feel or read when he/she sees the picture.

James Gourney, one of my all time favorite heroes has a blog which he daily updates. Right now he has a series going on where he describes the process he undertakes to make a picture -- take a look at how lenghty process he goes through to make one 'simple' picture: part1 (http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/utopiales-poster-part-1.html), part 2 (http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/utopiales-poster-part-2.html) , part 3 (http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/utopiales-poster-part-3-maquette.html) , part 4 (http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/line-drawing.html) but it's not even done to date:)

A picture starts with an idea, right? If sometimes it's only "I wanna draw a pretty girl". If it's a portrait the idea should be all about the gesture. A portrait can be realistic and if that's the case, live model or photographic reference is the only way.

I love women and I love women that makes me feel something when I look at them, whether in real life or in a picture. Your picture made me feel something, but after analyzing your picture I came to the conclusion that you intended the viewer to feel something else. See my two attached images at the bottom --

1: This is how I think you meant me to read it. A confident girl.

2: I read it as a heartbroken girl at prom, being left by her date and she's all alone with the disco lights blazing in the background.

There's a dissonance with your gesture. There are two roads to go down I believe - subtle (hard to execute) and obvious (relative easy), none of those two roads are especially bad, it's just a matter of expression. Your image is undecisive, which I don't consider a road to a fantastic piece of artwork (albeit your image looks great!!!).

In my opinion, an artist who are not so comfortable with the human gesture shoud start to learn how to make an obvious gesture (rage, sadness, happyness) because many times the viewer imbues his own emotions and create something subtle of the obvious (melancholy, nostalgia etc).

Now I'm gonna try to touch on the technical aspects of making an image, which also is a great fun part of it :)

[CGmonkey]

Anatomy

Anatomy is a pretty big subject, so I'm gonna try to touch on some of the parts that are within your picture. You have a good understanding of anatomy, that shows. You should never stop focusing on learning more anatomy, it's a neverending story :)

Unforuntely I couldn't go as explanatory as I wished in the anatomy, but I have some other topics I wanna touch upon before going :)

[CGmonkey]

Value, Hue and other jizz

I'm running out of time here but...

Value is the most important thing in your picture. It's so important that anatomy doesn't matter if the values are bad :)

You values aren't too bad but can be improved immensly by just thinking the right way.

Tip #1: Use soft brush to get big gradients but remember to use hard brush to get definition.

Tip #2: Cast shadows define form

Ultra Tip of the century #3: When it comes to Values you can never be TOO subtle.

Tip #4: Contrast is everything, so balance the picture so that highlight gets the most contrast.

Tip #5: Shadows don't loose color, you shadows are way to desaturated. Unfortunately I don't have time to show you.

Ugh - I've ran out of time so I need to run, hopefully this has been to some help for you :) If you feel like it, send me an P.M to your next artwork and I'll try to help you out along the process.

GREAT WORK mate!!! :)

[karan123]

Hi CG Monkey!

That was out of this world! I'm sure everyone who is following this thread will benefit immensely from your comments. Thank you most sincerely for your reply and taking the time to illustrate your points. There's alot to take away from what you've said and it'll take me a few reads to grasp.

Reading the theory behind a good composition or a good drawing is one thing, but having those ideas applied to your own work really teaches you something! I would not be following these concepts had you not illustrated them the way you had. And thank you for your encouragement!

Absolutely fantastic! :-)

Kind regards,
Karan

[quidditas]

Just wanted to say your progress on this thread was amazing, Karan. I nearly fell off my chair when you mentioned you were using a mouse! You must be incredibly patient.
You seem to have a really good knowledge of the technicalities of anatomy, you just need practice applying it. I'll add my voice to others who mentioned how difficult it is to make progress without a good reference to work from. I have no idea how you did this working solely from a Youtube clip. Just search the internet or magazines for photos for practice (giving credit where it's due, of course).

Really, with the knowledge and dedication you have already, you'll improve rapidly with practice.

Also want to say I was so impressed by CGMonkey's generosity in taking the time to give such lengthy and detailed advice; likewise, I think this will be really helpful to lots of people. It got me thinking a lot about values; that's something I usually just try to deal with intuitively, but maybe I should study them closely and take a more rigorous approach, see if that improves my future paintings.

Cheers!

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