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TOMMY 3D FREAK
06-27-2003, 12:34 AM
Hi,

I've been modelling on this head for two days now (it is my first head), and I was wondering if anybody can help me out... It seems to me that something is wrong about this head, but since it's my first, I can't exactly point out what is wrong. Can you guy's give me some hints to make this a good head?

qu2k
06-27-2003, 12:47 AM
dont post rendered smoothed wires. they tell us nothing

its in the sticky at the top of these forums too

vorlon
06-27-2003, 12:51 AM
The proportion is off. The top part of head should be equal to lower part. I.e., the top of eye socket to botton chin should be the same as the top of eye socket to top of the head. Now, the top head is so short, his brain is squeeze so tight, he is seeing gods and demons in his vision (j/k) :)

Also, the back of the head seems too 'fat', I mean where the neck meets the head. You might want to check that.

Also, look at human anatomy book, it should help you in figuring out proportion.

TOMMY 3D FREAK
06-27-2003, 12:53 AM
As you wish.......................

Lukashi
06-27-2003, 12:58 AM
he means u should post a non rendered non meshsmoothed wireframe

gmask
06-27-2003, 01:21 AM
The tip of the nose and nostrils are too small and the lips look to be puckered. Make the end of the nose larger and try to more smoothly transition from the cheeks to the mouth. There should not be an edge all the way around the mouth.

Where you using a reference image when modelling this or is on the fly?

ambient-whisper
06-27-2003, 01:31 AM
Warning: this is what we expect of wireframes.
http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images/WIP/Orc-wire.jpg
just take a snapshot of your viewport and you will be fine.
also. please try to make the heads in the images bigger. at this point you dont have to worry about rendering it, because its still too early for render stage.
notice how much black space you got in the image. try to fill that up with your models. also you might even want to split it up into 2 images. have 2 views per image.?

while your at it. read over the rules. you must mention which application you used/ etc.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70610
we are being easy on people for now but after this forum settles in, threads that dont follow the rules will be deleted on sight.

cheers=)
and thank you.

TOMMY 3D FREAK
06-27-2003, 03:22 AM
I've made the head with 3d studio max and meshtools (sub-d).


I've read your comments and this is what I've done with it. I also included a screenshot of my new model.

TOMMY 3D FREAK
06-27-2003, 03:29 AM
Here's a screenshot of my perspective view:

Goon
06-27-2003, 04:17 PM
Its not bad for a first head. Theres no way i'm showing you mine.
But it could stand improvement.

Study your anatomy. Here is a Skull (http://www.fineart.sk/skul2.jpg) ( I just ripped that off of fineart.sk (www.fineart.sk). Think they'll mind?)
Take note of the cheekbone. It does not amourphously hover below the eyes in a blob. It does not merge smoothly with the entire length of the nose. You may be making the surface of a head, but you need to be aware of what lies beneath that. It will heavily impact where and how things go. No matter how much fat is on the face, a skull lies beneath.
Next, look in the mirror and smile. Notice how the flesh deforms? Do you think your model can do this? I dont, you dont have the mesh flowing in the correct direction for the mouth. Go HERE (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469). This is the cgtalk topology thread. Notice the flow of polygons on the face. These are designed to work with both the bone and muscular structure of the face in order to animate and look better. Yours if pretty good for the eyes, but it breaks down entirely for the mouth and flesh around it.
Clean up your mesh, there are tri's, odd connections and wierd things going on.
The head is, in addition to being misproportioned, very boxy. The brow is flat, the face lacks depth, you could stand to pull several features back.

TOMMY 3D FREAK
06-27-2003, 08:32 PM
Hi,

First of all, thanks for helping me! I've been trying to change the model according to your comments, and the result is in the attachement. I've tried to use the skull as a reference for the bones, and I was wondering if it's any better then before?

gmask
06-27-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by TOMMY 3D FREAK
Hi,

First of all, thanks for helping me! I've been trying to change the model according to your comments, and the result is in the attachement. I've tried to use the skull as a reference for the bones, and I was wondering if it's any better then before?

Looking better but the nose is still too small .. you should enlargen the tip, nostrils and raise the bridge as well. The lower lip looks too thin so fatten it up a bit.

yngwix
07-23-2004, 09:57 PM
You seem to have very nice control of modeling tools so I have no doubt you could model anything you want to. However I think you might consider taking a deep look into human anatomy.

Through detailed observation it is possible to understand that human face, as well as any other part of our body, it is mainly composed by specific functional structures. Not only skin but also bones, muscles and internal organs should be considered and understood when approaching difficult tasks such as modeling a head. This way you will have not only feelings about what is right or wrong with your model but also the knowledge to know that disproportion might imply:

#1. Unwanted deformation, that reveal character's inability to think, see, hear, breath or eat. Unwanted of course only if proportion is what you have in mind to achieve.

#2. Desired deformation which could reveal personal thought about particular symbolic human expressions. Visual metaphors are welcomed here.

If somehow you feel like described in #1, try taking some pictures (front / side) to someone close to you and start modeling. I am sure lots of questions will arise about differences between the modeled character and the real one. This would lead you into deep observation.

On the other hand, feeling like #2 would be just about forgetting the classics and letting your mind free to experiment.

However being a #1 or #2 guy does not release you of others critique about structure and visual logics (which you are now supposed to learn through reading and observation).

I have never showed my work to anyone... I am really shy about my work, but you may have a chance to see some of it here:

http://members.supercable.net.ve/tor77/SenseLab/sense.html

Project 2 [in progress] is my first attempt at modeling a human face.


Hope that helped. Happy researching!

PS. Please forgive my bad english!

[Ace]
07-25-2004, 01:36 AM
Nice shot for a first head model. :thumbsup: I agree with most of the remarks : Take your time to study the anatomy of the human face, how muscles are constructed and where they connect. Take a look at Martin Crol's Ogre (link in this thread). example:The polygon-row going from one nostrill, passing by the corner of the mouth, go completely under it, back up the other corner and ending at the other nostrill. These things will able you to more automaticly achieve more correct forms, and if you would ever would want to create morph target's for this model, it's a must. You will recognize these things in any good anatomy book.

Another great tip that helped me in head modeling : Try to look as much as possible in the perspective viewport, preferable without wires and with smoothing on, when you manipulate in general and in detail. Working in Orthogonal viewports misleads and results in neglect of the foreshortening problem, and gives effects as a flat face and too cubical head forms. Whenever you use photo's as a reference (you should look a lots of them, or better, take a good look at people arround you, ask a friend to keep stil for a minute ;)), don't forget that a camera puts perspective in a picture. Don't use it 1 on 1 as a backgroung in an orthogonal viewport.

Good luck, don't give up :bounce: :)

Goon
07-27-2004, 05:57 PM
(this thread is over a year old)

yngwix
07-27-2004, 09:50 PM
Hmmm... seems like a year old, but it is not.

My reply is barely five days old... but seems like posted in 2003? :surprised

Still confused...

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