Help Honing Digital Painting Technique

[Rabid1]

Hey giffman, i like the idea and the start of this piece... and its cool you are jumping this far into the art world! As for crits i have a couple thoughts for you- working the strong lines out of the first comp was a big step, essentially you change the piece from being an illustration to a painting. There are a couple compositional elements that bug me: first that firey oven/kiln is being cropped in a weird way, i would either show it all or move in inside more? Second, his eyes seem to be looking at space, but you feel like they should be focused on the flying objects? Also, those men standing in the bg are very dark and shadowed...maybe just a tad too dark.

I like the way you handled the tools in the mid ground, they are well defined and interesting...but i think you could probably make those ojbects he's throwing a bit more detailed and stronger forms.

I think the colors work well, and the overall mood is fun and playful. You could probably push the detail work more, depending on how far you want to take it? Make sure you have the composition worked out first though! Remeber objects closer to the viewer (foreground) should generally have the most detail, strongest contrast and most saturated colors.

Keep it up hoping to see your progress!

[Cati]

It's a good picture and a great start considering you got the tablet very recently.

The bellows look better on your first picture. In your second picture the bellows are behind the character too much to recognize what it is. It lacks that 3d look you mention but not because of the perspective (atleast not to my eye). Values create depth and your bellows lack values. But are the bellows really so important here that you should go through all the trouble to make the viewer to see them better? I understand the importance if they are essential in the story that this illustration is for. If something is not essential to see - don't underline it.

This is only my opinion and you're free to disagree if you feel differently ;) :
I think you should first just stop and plan ahead. You have a good start already.

Because of the nature of your elements they are all pointing eveywhere and yet nowhere. I can see two hotspots that most of the invisible lines cut (I can include a picture to demonstrate this if you want); the table where most of the tools are and the area between small ball at the root of the bellows and the man.

The man's gaze is pointing outside of the picture but when you fix it in line with the bell you can see how easily you can spot this otherwise so lonely object. It serves a good example how you should plan the elements to guide the viewer's eyes through the picture. You don't have to do it with every single element but only those that are strong enough to make it worthwhile. It's not enough to stop the lines from pouring outside of the frames. Be careful what you point at. Good hotspots would be the man's face, the bell and the two men in the back.

The men at the back are creating a closed space. They don't interact with the rest of the picture and only their feet are pointing at the main character. Make the one the right look at the main character to create stronger interaction, tension and to guide the eye.

Just my thoughts - hope this helps in any way. ;-)

[thegiffman]

Rabid1 - thanks for your thoughts - I think I'll try to implement just about all of them. I'm not really sure what I can do about changing the cropping on the forge, though - basic perspective seems hard to change at this stage of the drawing. But pushing things back through some desatruation looks fantastic. I'll post another when I'm further along.

Cati - I think you misunderstood me about the bellows. The problem was the stick used to pump them not making much sense - some viewers were surprised that it was "over" the tongs. But the form is harder to decipher now, which I do regret, and it seems to mess up the composition.

I'd be very interested to see your analysis of where my lines are pointing, and where they should point. I'd like the user to focus on the face, the bell, and the fire, and then notice the figures in the background. Any suggestions on how to subtly help this composition would be great.

[thegiffman]

Here's a mock up with more of the objects pointing in the right place, the color satruation turned down a bit, and the eyes looking where they should. I'll add more detail to the foreground objects as I finish the painting.

[Cati]

I'm having difficulties with uploading the picture but I see you've already got what I was after.

It's a bit better now. I'm not entitely sure of the pipe's direction at the character's feet. Is it too obvious now that it's pointing straight to his face with the bell? It's such a strong element to be left as it was but now it's parallel to the big tube in the air on the left. The problem with sticks is that they are always pointing at something. And you have a lot of sticks. How to position them so they don't look so obviously arranged and neither are they randomly placed... that's the problem.

Honestly - I first thought that the wooden stick on the bellows is a baseball bat. I didn't realise it was a handle. It's so loose and it's right end defy's the laws of physics to be attached to the bellows that are supposed to be behind the fireplace. Perhaps it would look better if it's behind the fireplace? (I've never seen smith's bellows before so I'm no expert on this).

The character's gaze is much better now. It really alters the picture.

One thing to consider is the angle and the visibility of the fireplace. As Rabid1 suggested - bring it IN the picture to give it more weight. It would be ideal to get the corner of the fireplace more in line with the bell.

The big stick on the left side of the picture is very dominating. It's parallel to the man beside it and the small tube on the ground.

I think you had a good picture to start with and this is just slicing up hairs. I think you should just try to make most of this picture without altering it entirely, move on to next picture and apply what you've learnt. :)

[thegiffman]

Here's the current state. I've still got a bit to go, but I'm liking the way things are turning out. I'm most concerned right now about how I'm going to render the dirt floor. I tried playing around with a patch of it without much interesting happening. Any ideas?

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cp3ujq.jpg

[Rabid1]

Good update, i like the sharpness of the large objects and their details. Overall this seems like a few steps up from the previous posts. As for the ground i wouldn't make it tooo detailed...
You could add a light touch of 'noise' to it just to give it some texture and maybe a few footsteps or other markings. I think less is more here, there's already a lot going on in that middle-ground area. Also, are those tools suppose to be on the ground or on a table above the ground? It looks like they are all on the ground, but when comparing their sizes to the guy's feet they look really large?

I think Cati had a good point about those guys in the background... they seem very disconnected from the overall picture. Maybe that was your desire, but they seem to be
very detailed for such a presentation?

Anyway, good work this piece has already progressed well, i look foward to more.

[thegiffman]

The tools are supposed to be on a table about waist height. I'll definitely keep your impression in mind when I detail it - make it a little more clear (perhaps by ensuring that the table is a good deal lighter than the floor? I'm torn between utility (lit objects look closer) and realism (the table should actually be darker than the floor, due to the relationship of the surface normal to the fireplace.

I tried getting the bearded guy to look at the main character, but was having a bit of trouble getting the eyes to look right. Perhaps I'll redouble my efforts.

I'm really glad I left the airbrush behind for a stronger brush. Good riddance!

The stanza of the poem being illustrated (in the context of a young itinerant juggler not really fitting in anywhere):

The menfolk would comment: he needed a trade!
And donned him a smithy, and saw what he made:
His balls and batons and brass bells he could ring.
He'd toss 'till the shop of the smithy would sing.

[thegiffman]

Here's an update - work on one of the background figures, the fireplace, and some odds and ends. I'm trying to get the hang of texturing. Once I get the hang of doing it all by hand, I should be able to start trusting myself with shortcuts.

http://i43.tinypic.com/x1lu7k.jpg

[thegiffman]

Here's the final painting:

http://i41.tinypic.com/sglgyc.jpg

Thanks for all the help!

[Rabid1]

Well done giffman... you cleaned it up nicely and seemed to learn a bit along the way. Good job.

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