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Shade01
06-25-2003, 10:48 PM
Well, there are several instances of characters and objects being shot at in my film. How would you add the bullet holes appearing into the walls? I thought about layering a bunch of image maps amd dissolving from one to the other to show the progression of holes, but I know there's a better way, because there's always a better way. Any ideas?

Steve Warner
06-25-2003, 11:03 PM
People always hate it when I recommend commercial plugins, but here goes:

http://www.worley.com/polk/polk_acid.html

I'm using the Acid plugin right now to riddle a Russian Mig with bullet holes. It's easy to set up, easy to adjust, and it works like a charm. It will even allow you to affect the bump map on your surface so it looks like there is a chunk missing from your wall. :D

aurora
06-25-2003, 11:04 PM
Just a suggestion which I have not tried in this manner yet. What if you cut a poly where you want the hole(s). Make a copy of that new poly so it will have the same surface as your wall. Then start smooth shifting it several times such that at first it does not distort your wall but creates several new polys. Create a new surface(s) of these new polys so you can texture them to look like gunshot holes (whatever that should look like.) Then add an endomorph. With the new morph start moving those new polys back into the wall. To animate do a dissolve of the original wall surfaced poly as the bullet is hitting the wall and then start moving the enodmorph via morph mixer in synch with the bullet.
Just an idea but I bet Larry (SG) has a better approach using displacement maps of some sort.

SplineGod
06-26-2003, 06:55 AM
Actually acid isnt a bad idea. Great plugin!
If you want to use LW, how I would go about it will depend on how close youll get to the bullet holes.
If youre close up you could:
Do as aurora suggested and model in the bullet holes using stencil and smooth shift the holes in as an endomorph.
You could then use normal displacement---morph map----texture----gradient to allow each bullet hole to form based on a gradient. The input parameter could be distance from object (a null).
This way you can morph them sequenctially based on distance from an object.
Another suggestion would be to use Hypervoxels in sprite mode using a bullet hole clip on the sprites. You could also FXLink a bullet hole object to your emitter.
You can create the path for the bullet holes using the method described HERE (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67240)

Shade01
06-26-2003, 07:02 AM
Thanks, that gives me some options to work with!

Wesball
06-26-2003, 08:56 AM
just do it in after effects.

:)

yog
06-26-2003, 01:09 PM
Use an object sequence.
Copy your wall object and model a bullet hole, copy that object and add another bullet hole, and so on. By adding the appropriate frame number to the end of the object name you can control when each bullet hole appears.
Unlike morphs, object sequences don't require you to keep the same point order, or even the same number of points.

Steve Warner
06-27-2003, 03:54 AM
Hi Shade01,

The non-plugin approaches that people have described are excellent. But I figured I'd show you what could be done with Acid in about 5 minutes.

Bullets Divx 5.03 (http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/bullets.avi)

The bullet holes are placed with nulls. The closer the null is to the wall, the deeper the hole will be, although in this example they're all set the same. I also have control over the color and shape of the hole, how deep it is, the degree of texture in the hole, and a variety of other surface settings. The benefit of the null approach is twofold. First, it doesn't require any extra geometry, complex morphs, etc. Just place your null and you're done. Second, the bullet holes can be rearranged simply by moving the null around. That gives it an advantage over image or texture based approaches.

I know $199 may seem like a lot for a set of plugins, but I have found the Polk and Taft collections to be indispensible, especially when you're more concerned about getting the job done than finding creative workarounds.

Hope this helps! :wavey:

Steve

SplineGod
06-27-2003, 06:22 AM
Steve I see a wall and no bullet holes. Was that the right movie?

Steve Warner
06-27-2003, 06:28 AM
Hi Larry,

The movie is 60 frames, but the first 30 are blank (bad animator, no biscuit!). The last 30 have the bullet holes. I really should fix that...

Are you running Divx 5.03? I know that in the past if I've had a previous version, I could play the first frame, but not the rest. Let me know and if needed, I'll convert this into a more standard format.

Thanks!

Steve

*EDIT*

Ok, I've got another version up. Sorry again about the sloppy animation. :blush: This one has the camera a little further back than the previous one. It's still Divx 5.03. Let me know if you have any troubles viewing it.

Bullets2 Divx 5.03 File (http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/bullets2.avi)

Shade01
06-27-2003, 07:21 AM
That does look good! I could see where that would be awesome for a few holes, but I've got one scene where about 10 people are shooting at each other with automatic machine guns and nearly everything gets riddled with bullet holes. I can't imagine sitting there trying to place a null for each hole. Is there a points to nulls plugin?

Steve Warner
06-27-2003, 07:41 AM
Yep. :) It's called NullIt

Points to Nulls Plugin (http://www.solidillusions.com/)

Go to the plugin page. It will convert any points in an object (even if the object is nothing but points) to nulls. :thumbsup:

With this, you wouldn't need to manually position each null. But you'd still have to keyframe when it should appear. There may be an easier way, so let me think about that for a bit.

Cheers!

Steve

SplineGod
06-27-2003, 08:13 AM
HERES (http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/bullets.avi) an example of using the approach I described earlier. It literally took about 5 minutes to setup and render it.
Its a bullethole Image on HV sprites. Im using some points I railcloned as a particle emitter with the nozzle set to vertex. This emits a particle one at a time from each vertex in the point order.
Very simply to do. :)

Steve Warner
06-27-2003, 08:19 AM
Hi Larry,

Very nice! :thumbsup: I'm seeing some strange shading going on in the bullet holes. It seems to shift over the course of time. Is that from the HV Sprite, or are you moving lights?

SplineGod
06-27-2003, 08:29 AM
Dunno... its pretty quick n dirty so it could be anything. :)
With a bit o tweakin it could look pretty nice.
It is possible to adapt what you were saying to this by using FXLinker with nulls to create reference nulls etc etc.

Shade01
06-27-2003, 09:32 AM
This turned out to be a very interesting discussion. I learned quite a bit from this thread. thank you guys for the help!

SplineGod
06-27-2003, 06:25 PM
Iknow what you mean. It makes you wish there were more hours in the day. :)

aurora
06-27-2003, 10:09 PM
This is why I love the LW forum. Usually if you ask a question on how to do something you'll get several replies each with there own method of conquering the feat in question. Many of which I would not have orginally thought of or even better yet even known I could do (Larry:) ).
By the way Larry I finally got your 'vines' approach to work. Thanks as always! In fact while playing with it I came up with a slightly different and neat approach for doing a melting iceberg I'm working on. We need to change your title from Spline God to just plan CG God!

SplineGod
06-27-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by aurora
This is why I love the LW forum. Usually if you ask a question on how to do something you'll get several replies each with there own method of conquering the feat in question. Many of which I would not have orginally thought of or even better yet even known I could do (Larry:) ).
By the way Larry I finally got your 'vines' approach to work. Thanks as always! In fact while playing with it I came up with a slightly different and neat approach for doing a melting iceberg I'm working on. We need to change your title from Spline God to just plan CG God!
Thanks! I prefer methods that give me more directly control.
The nice thing is that you can combine various approaches.
Im experimenting with getting some leaves and flowers to bloom along the vines as well. Ill be very interested in your iceberg technique. :)

adrencg
06-29-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Thanks! I prefer methods that give me more directly control.
The nice thing is that you can combine various approaches.
Im experimenting with getting some leaves and flowers to bloom along the vines as well. Ill be very interested in your iceberg technique. :)

Would it be possible to make another particle object(an explosin) spawn at each bullet hole using some kind of parent emitter setting?

Mike

HowardM
06-29-2003, 06:02 PM
yes, you can have a child emitter, pre-recorded or realtime, spawn when its parent particles are born, living or dead.

adrencg
06-29-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Thanks! I prefer methods that give me more directly control.
The nice thing is that you can combine various approaches.
Im experimenting with getting some leaves and flowers to bloom along the vines as well. Ill be very interested in your iceberg technique. :)

You're idea for bullet holes gave me some ideas....

I tried using a spline object with a high volume of points as a particle object set to "vertices", birth rate "1" per frame(not sec) to make a vine grow with HVs.

I created a sphere and selected the points which I wanted the vine to lay upon. i then pasted the points into the next layer, and in the 3rd layer, drew a spline object over the exact location of the pasted points. Then using the numeriic dialog box, I increased the number of points to 200 so it was really dense.

I then made it into a particle object in layout and set up some HVs on it.

By setting and envelope in the particle size, you can get some nice taper effects. Inverse the envelope and it looks like a teardrop rolling in the direction of your spline. The key to making it look right is making sure there are a high number of points on your spline, then there will be no seperation in the HV blobs and it will look like one continous vine -- or it could be a vein.

Changing the birth rate to 2 will increase the speed of growth, etc.

Try it, it's a whole new effect that I never knew I could pull off so easily.

Mike

adrencg
06-29-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by HowardM
yes, you can have a child emitter, pre-recorded or realtime, spawn when its parent particles are born, living or dead.

Does anyone know how to REALLY make that work. I try it all the time, and I got it to work one time, but I forgot which magic slider i moved to make it work properly. It's VERY tempermental. I did everything everyone always says....decrease the parent motion and position blur, increase vibration, all that stuff -- but all I see when I start simulation is a particle shoot out at about 200 mph and then nothing else happens.

What is the secret to using parent emitters?

Mike

adrencg
06-29-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by adrencg
Does anyone know how to REALLY make that work. I try it all the time, and I got it to work one time, but I forgot which magic slider i moved to make it work properly. It's VERY tempermental. I did everything everyone always says....decrease the parent motion and position blur, increase vibration, all that stuff -- but all I see when I start simulation is a particle shoot out at about 200 mph and then nothing else happens.

What is the secret to using parent emitters?

Mike

duh...parent in place is the culprit. Must keep that turned off when parenting emitter.

Mike

HowardM
06-29-2003, 08:45 PM
mike- you know you can edit your original post? so that could of all been one post?
ahem! so maybe clean it up? :)

so lets see an animation of this teardrop spline!

and yes of course parented emitters can be done, why would I suggest you do it?

TIP! ->One workaround Ive found for a bug known as "child emitter superfreakout" is to jack up the child emitter generator size.

SplineGod
06-29-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by adrencg
You're idea for bullet holes gave me some ideas....

I tried using a spline object with a high volume of points as a particle object set to "vertices", birth rate "1" per frame(not sec) to make a vine grow with HVs.

I created a sphere and selected the points which I wanted the vine to lay upon. i then pasted the points into the next layer, and in the 3rd layer, drew a spline object over the exact location of the pasted points. Then using the numeriic dialog box, I increased the number of points to 200 so it was really dense.

I then made it into a particle object in layout and set up some HVs on it.

By setting and envelope in the particle size, you can get some nice taper effects. Inverse the envelope and it looks like a teardrop rolling in the direction of your spline. The key to making it look right is making sure there are a high number of points on your spline, then there will be no seperation in the HV blobs and it will look like one continous vine -- or it could be a vein.

Changing the birth rate to 2 will increase the speed of growth, etc.

Try it, it's a whole new effect that I never knew I could pull off so easily.

Mike
Cool! The idea for the bullet holes came from a thread that I had posted about Vines a few weeks ago. :)
Check it out HERE (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67240&)

adrencg
06-29-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Cool! The idea for the bullet holes came from a thread that I had posted about Vines a few weeks ago. :)
Check it out HERE (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67240&)

If I had known you had already done it, I wouldn't have posted. It looks like your vine idea came full circle after spawning a bunch of other ideas.

Mike

Steve Warner
06-29-2003, 10:26 PM
Shade01,

I thought about how the bullet holes on my last anim needed to be placed with nulls. I thought that might be a limiting factor, especially when you said you needed dozens of bullet holes. Then I remembered that the Acid plugin can use any object as a source for the bullet holes.

I used the Spray Points tool in Modeler and converted them into single point polys. I distributed the points to sepearate layers with Fi's Distribute plugin and saved the object. In Layout, I loaded my wall and points, applied the Acid plugin to the wall and told it that every point was a bullet hole. I parented the points to a null and keyframed the movement so that they started away from the wall, but ended on the opposite side. Every time a point hit the wall, it left a bullet hole. The total process took 4 minutes to create, set up, and render.

Here's the result:

Random Bullet Holes (http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/bullets3.avi)

Once I realized that every point in my object acted as a virtual bullet, a ton of possibilities opened up. I now have complete control over the placement and timing of my bullets. Here's an example of gunfire graffiti that was set up and rendered in under 10 minutes.

Random Bullet Holes (http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/bullets4.avi)

Since multiple instances of Acid can be used, you can tweak the settings of each to get different results. Here's an still showing three instances of Acid. This does increase the render time, but the results look great. :)

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/randomshots.jpg

Larry's use of particles works wonderfully (and doesn't require 3rd party plugins), but this provides you with another quick way to get the results you're after. :)

Hope this helps,

Steve

SplineGod
06-29-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by adrencg
If I had known you had already done it, I wouldn't have posted. It looks like your vine idea came full circle after spawning a bunch of other ideas.

Mike
You should post anyways. The only reason I pointed you to my old thread was because of the method I used to increase the density of points along the spline without a ton of work. Id like to see any cool stuff you might come up with. The Xmen- effects thread has some very cool stuff that various ppl came up with. :)

Shade01
06-30-2003, 05:34 AM
Wow, I've been gone for a couple of days and the thread gets better! Steve you are really selling me on that acid! I've got a birthday coming up so we'll see :)

HowardM
06-30-2003, 03:27 PM
Make sure its not brown!
:)
I dunno Shade, like Larry showed you can do the exact same thing with PFX without the plug...probably more once you get playing with it!

SplineGod
06-30-2003, 07:12 PM
Its also possible to combine Steves idea with the PFX thing.
You could use FX Link to put Null along the spline and still apply acid/surface effectors/texture layer with falloff to the surface using each Null as the reference object. :)

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