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View Full Version : Autodesk snub prompts Foundry price cut


ptech
01-14-2009, 09:28 AM
http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/2009/01/autodesk_snub_prompts_foundry_price_cut.html;jsessionid=492B85E82CBDDCB1FED7118A013ECF41?tmcsTrackingInfo=$8DwcjRTxEr2n8jjnOw8sgADYqL335DI75Fc5BPPJoELHpDoGqHsmj-Kq-P-aqQ6LhuiHNW8kW54$

mustique
01-14-2009, 03:15 PM
from the article:
A statement from Autodesk read: "Autodesk undertook this decision for business reasons namely that The Foundry now develops and sells Nuke. Autodesk views Nuke as competing with Autodesk Toxik."

Toxic is competing with Nuke lol!

Well this joke made my day. Toxik is an ill advised poor piece of software.
I'm sure the few people who have to use it for whatever reason
(forget the maya compatibility thing) will not applaud this decision.

jupiterjazz
01-14-2009, 03:54 PM
from the article:
A statement from Autodesk read: "Autodesk undertook this decision for business reasons namely that The Foundry now develops and sells Nuke. Autodesk views Nuke as competing with Autodesk Toxik."

Toxic is competing with Nuke lol!

Well this joke made my day. Toxik is an ill advised poor piece of software.
I'm sure the few people who have to use it for whatever reason
(forget the maya compatibility thing) will not applaud this decision.

I second this.

And the efforts that ADSK is doing to pass data from Maya to Toxic are also ridiculous. Start from the crappy render passes of 2009, worse-most-needed-feature-ever-implemented.

But I don't want to go to far with the critics, otherwise I could argue even on the verb part of "Autodesk views" ;)

Nuke kicks ass and it is 100% production proof. Toxic can barely be named in the same typology of software. The attitude of ADSK (especially seen their strong-about-to-be-monopolistic market position) towards The Foundry with this move is pathetic.

p

RobertoOrtiz
01-14-2009, 04:39 PM
<mod hat off>
Well if I was in a competing company with Autodesk in the 3D Market,
I would be aggresively trying to contact them to make it a snap to port their tools to my 3D program.

It seems that the only way that smaller vendors will survive this juggernaut is if they start forming alliances wich each other.


-R

dprgb
01-14-2009, 05:20 PM
fxguide had a podcast on this a week ago where they interviewed The Foundry's co-founder Simon Robertson about it.

I think this article (and especially the title) goes a bit too far in making a huge deal out of this. The Foundry was removed from Autodesk's Spark developer program, where they would get free copies of Flame, Fire, Smoke, Inferno, etc. to develop and test plugins on. Now that The Foundry is a competitor (without even arguing Toxik vs. Nuke here) it doesn't really make any business sense to offer someone who makes a similar product free access to your flagship products.

From the fxguide podcast it seemed like they're still working on a solution, probably something like, "Your Nuke development team can have no contact with the Sparks development team."

Ohh, and it's not much of a snub - The Foundry's contract with Autodesk's Developer Network expired and Autodesk decided not to renew... which was always an option in the contract.

Gentle Fury
01-14-2009, 06:14 PM
ha ha...that is a funny quote....toxik....lol

blakshep
01-14-2009, 07:09 PM
i don't understand why is this a good business solution. in time if you want to use furnace you have to use nuke, and no autodesk software.
Softimage made plugin for 3dsmax, and i don't think it's because bad for business.ok this is the other way but still. It was good for autodesk, softimage and the users too.
i think this step is only making sense if autodesk wants to kill nuke

fxguide had a podcast on this a week ago where they interviewed The Foundry's co-founder Simon Robertson about it.

I think this article (and especially the title) goes a bit too far in making a huge deal out of this. The Foundry was removed from Autodesk's Spark developer program, where they would get free copies of Flame, Fire, Smoke, Inferno, etc. to develop and test plugins on. Now that The Foundry is a competitor (without even arguing Toxik vs. Nuke here) it doesn't really make any business sense to offer someone who makes a similar product free access to your flagship products.

From the fxguide podcast it seemed like they're still working on a solution, probably something like, "Your Nuke development team can have no contact with the Sparks development team."

Ohh, and it's not much of a snub - The Foundry's contract with Autodesk's Developer Network expired and Autodesk decided not to renew... which was always an option in the contract.

dprgb
01-14-2009, 07:29 PM
Softimage bought CAT from another company, and just continued it's development a bit, they didn't create it from scratch. And I don't think they bought it wanting a 3ds max plugin, they wanted CAT's intellectual property. That's what Autodesk is protecting - their own intellectual property.

And people don't use Flame / Inferno only for The Foundry's plugins - the bigger issue would be what sort of knowledge The Foundry could put into Nuke by being able to see more of the Autodesk softwares.

Autodesk is still growing Toxik, it's not like they're going to drop it and leave the desktop compositing market. A lot of Toxik came from the higher up programs, as they grow Toxik and want it to compete it probably wouldn't be a great idea to give your competitors free access to your software. Just because it can't compete on featureset now doesn't mean Autodesk can't continue adding features to it and 'grow' it into a competing product. The upcoming OSX release indicates this.

And I'm sure GenArts is happy with the decision.

Listen to the podcast - it certainly doesn't seem like The Foundry's that upset about it, they see it as a business decision and like this poorly titled article states, they're still working on a solution.

cresshead
01-14-2009, 08:18 PM
the headline seems more in tune with tabloid 'sensational eye catching headlines' than actual events, there appears to be alot of anti autodesk news now that autodesk have a strong position in 3d visual effects.

dprgb
01-14-2009, 08:26 PM
from the article:
A statement from Autodesk read: "Autodesk undertook this decision for business reasons namely that The Foundry now develops and sells Nuke. Autodesk views Nuke as competing with Autodesk Toxik."


Incidentally, I just heard from Mike Seymour (who wrote the fxphd article a week before this one came out) that Autodesk never made this statement - he (Mike) did. I did, at first read, find the quote an odd one for Autodesk to make, they would never make a statement like this, they're far to large a company. They'd say something much more bland and boilerplate.

BenBolin
01-14-2009, 10:08 PM
Well, the Foundry was a part "Autodesk's Developer Network" for years, developing plugins for Autodesk's compositing software. The Foundry made it's money off of Autodesk's customer base. Then, according to wikipedia, The Foundry acquired Nuke from D2 software in 2007. Regardless of the quality of Toxic, Nuke competes with Autodesk's compositing software (I admit, I don't know the distinctions between the various compositing packages in Autodesk's product line) . It sounds to me like it was The Foundry that did the snubbing.

blakshep
01-14-2009, 10:09 PM
autodesk bought himself a strong position in 3d visual effects. maybe that's the reason for anti autodesk news
the headline seems more in tune with tabloid 'sensational eye catching headlines' than actual events, there appears to be alot of anti autodesk news now that autodesk have a strong position in 3d visual effects.

RobertoOrtiz
01-15-2009, 02:05 AM
here are more details of what this means:



By removing access to the host machines, Autodesk makes it hard for the Foundry to support their Tinder, Furnace and Keylight plugins. A point Autodesk has acknowledged. And so for the last few weeks Autodesk and the Foundry have been working to try and find a mid-ground where Autodesk can let the Foundry have machines to test on, but not full access - which is clearly unfair to Autodesk as they compete now with the Foundry at a 'Nuke" level. Autodesk has given very strong verbal confirmation that it is keen to find this middle ground and in no way wants to stop the Foundry from developing sparks for the Autodesk systems community. The problem is that the deal to end the Developer Network program ran out Jan 1st. 2009. As of this week, the Foundry have deleted and destroyed all Autodesk material - in line with the ending of the Developer contact, and they are left with no way to even check a bug report.


http://www.fxguide.com/article521.html

cresshead
01-15-2009, 10:13 AM
autodesk bought himself a strong position in 3d visual effects. maybe that's the reason for anti autodesk news

hoping not to take this too off topic but you mean because autodesk runs it's business 'in profit' and can expand you think it deserves bad press for being succesful?

would you sooner have seen maya, xsi, mudbox, motion builder disapear from your options to get 3d apps and just leave 3dsmax?

i fundamentally find it 'odd' that people are so negative on a companies ability to navigate these turbulent times...avid was looking to unload an app they couldn't get into people's
studios..their stewardship may have given us the ice development but in marketing terms
xsi didn't give an app that took enough sales away from maya and 3dsmax..

at least you still have options to buy apps such as xsi, mudbox, maya and motion builder
you may not feel they are owned by 'mr perfect' but at least they're being developed and promoted stil and not a dead app owned by a teachers pension scheme for example...

re toxic there will no doubt be a negotiated agreement to move forward as such a thing will benefit both parties.

theotheo
01-15-2009, 02:32 PM
This happened to Eyeon as well when they introduced connections to Discreet Stone raids. ADSK didnt like and eyeon was left out in the cold.

Good for the foundry, Im sure they'll be just fine.

-theo

Jon A. Bell
01-16-2009, 12:12 AM
When I read the headline, I was hoping it meant that The Foundry had dropped the price of Nuke by an order of magnitude. No such luck. ;)

Hope they work things out; it would benefit both parties.

-- Jon

Cheesestraws
01-29-2009, 11:42 AM
http://www.fxguide.com/qt/683/all-is-forgiven-sale-ends

It looks like they sorted things out.

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