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DuttyFoot
01-12-2009, 07:20 PM
has anyone here downloaded and tried the beta of windows 7 as yet.
i would love to hear your thoughts on it.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/

Tej
01-12-2009, 07:39 PM
Yeh, installed the 64 bit last night on a quad core with 8gb of ram and a firegl v5600, will run more extensive tests later. Although still in beta, so will have to wait for performance benchmarks until full version comes out. Will try out to test stability and general performance. The looks are a bit different again, with shut down button shuffled again, no more sidebar, and havent checked the UAC yet, but didnt seem to ask anything stupid for about an hour of use. Seems to be on right track so far.

To be honest, i have been using vista ultimate x64 since january 08. It has been a great OS, saying that it will run fine on a system of that specs anyway.

Windows 7 will try to sort out any glitches people felt with Vista, but still its pretty much based on Vista. I have still have to install drivers for ethernet and wireless. Microsoft says, most of the drivers that worked for Vista will work for Windows 7, but will have to wait and see.

Still very early to make any remarks, generally i would definitely think its going to be an improved version of vista. Will post more later, if i find anything interesting.

Try it on an additional HDD if you have got one.

Gentle Fury
01-12-2009, 07:41 PM
just looks like more eye-candy to add further to vista instability.

Boone
01-12-2009, 08:08 PM
I've not had any problems with Vista yet and is performing quite nicely. I've read in PC Format this month that Win7 is doing away with GDI - but havent they done that with Vista? I thought it all run off DX10...

Tamis
01-12-2009, 08:33 PM
Ugh, the bad acting in the video's just makes me wanna puke!!
Further more what's up with these horrendous graphics? The interface is way to flashy and distracting!

BigPixolin
01-12-2009, 08:38 PM
Here we go with more Vista mis-information and opinions that the originators can't seperate from fact.

ccherrett
01-12-2009, 08:39 PM
I had to stop at "We are Windows GURUs" :)

Seems MS likes to think a lot of themselves. I know it is marketing but I believe it goes far beyond that.

Anyhow back to real life. I have a lot of 3D to work on :)

cresshead
01-12-2009, 09:00 PM
will it run on my atari stfm?
how many floppy discs does it come on!

:beer:

runejw
01-12-2009, 09:18 PM
Installed Win7 64 bit this weekend.
Installation went quick.
The OS itself also has a more snappy feel to it - more responsive, less sluggish like Vista sometimes can be. A bit cleaner looking but that may be because it's Beta.

For rendering so far I have stayed with Win XP SP3 since that is quicker than Vista 32 or 64 bit - at least with 4GB RAM.

Tried Cinebench R10 on Win7 and it gave a benchmark of 11000 ca while XP SP3 on the same machine (with lots and lots of extra applications of course) currently gives me around 9850, so that's a healthy 10% gain !! (Q6600 quad core overclocked to 2.7 GHz)

Also generally have no complaints about the UI. The new start bar that organizes your apps is just fine. That you can shake a window to have all other minimize (do it again and they are restored) and some other nifty enhancements that are actually quite intuitive is a great plus in my book. Now I highlight intuitive here since that is something that is too often overlooked. Making good intuitive features that don't make you stumble, but come naturally is a big plus in my book.

Also the nagging security features of Vista have been tuned for the better. So less fuss and more productivity there.

Summary so far is better performance than XP SP3, not just in benchmark but in look and feel. I only hope they do not burden Win7 down with any performance-sucking "intelligent" features between the Beta and the final. If so they have a less fussy and better performing OS ready to take full advantage of new hardware.

In short it looks to be a winner from my viewpoint.

SheepFactory
01-12-2009, 09:48 PM
When is it coming out?

shredder19
01-12-2009, 09:49 PM
I did a upgrade from vista 64bit instead of a full fresh install just to quickly check the compatibility of the software I already had on my system, and everything was recognized, and my apps are working fine. Maya, photoshop cs4, fusion, Nuke, and a few games all run. As for performance increase over vista, Im not completely finished with that, but so far everything is running faster and less resources on the ram.

TAVO
01-12-2009, 11:35 PM
When is it coming out?

apparently in late 2009 or something around January or February in 2010. Im reading a lot of good reviews in pc websites as well as a couple of cg forums. :scream:

neuromancer
01-12-2009, 11:50 PM
I installed it on my laptop a few days ago. it's a 2.4 centrino core2duo with 2Gb or ram. the install went without any problems. the os feels way more responsive then vista ever was. it feels, even with all the eye candy on like an empty xp installation. no slowdowns, no glitches. installed quiet a bit of things on it like xsi, mudbox, cs4 studio and visual studio with ms sql and it still runs great without any crash or blue screen.

so far so good. considering it's the first beta i gotta say it seems they are on the right track to make something right. we'll see when it comes out... whenever that is.

cheers

Magierro
01-12-2009, 11:51 PM
I don't even wanna try it :D

for me win xp is the best , doesn't need as much memory as Vista na I suppose Win 7 as well.

But looks fine , for me only looks.




regards

Michael5188
01-13-2009, 12:54 AM
They mention in the movie interacting with only your finger.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that require a touch screen monitor?

mynewcat
01-13-2009, 01:10 AM
Not that I'm bothered, but I think it might say in the licence agreement not to publish performance comparisons for a Beta version...:deal:

Anyway, I'm sticking with XP until there is some major reason for me to upgrade.

salmonmoose
01-13-2009, 01:37 AM
Grabbed the 64bit version.

I never had issues with Vista - Win7 just seems like a cleaner more streamlined version of that.

It SEEMS to use a lot of memory, perhaps that's just because I'm watching, but it uses around 1gig at idle - that said, I've got all the bells and whistles on - and have another 7 gigs free.

The setup is still fundamentally broken, and destroys your boot-record (dual booters know what I mean) - and whilst it's fast compared to other versions of Windows, it's painful compared to installation from modern Linux based LiveCDs.

It feels about as fast as XP64, and I certainly get higher frame-rates in DX10 enabled games, although much the same in DX9 stuff.

The new task bar is very slick, once you get used to it. It's got all the gooey bits of Vista without some of the headaches.

UAC is now configurable, although not configurable enough - you can't from what I've seen, say "always allow this program to modify my drive", but you can tell it to never notify you if ANY program modifies the drive (this seems a bit silly coming back from linux).

Oh, and I can't install flash. For some reason flash detects that I have less than 5 megs free and dies, despite around 2 TB of free-space scattered around my drives.

Koogle
01-13-2009, 01:53 AM
Win 7 Zzz7zzzz 7zzz.. yawn

same vista suckage, different version... they have made improvements sure.. but all those "performance improvements" are only as good as its weakest links.. And that is still its shit looking UI, and noobified user experience, they haven't really provided enough real valuable improvements to me at all, just nub fluff. I guess if you are noobie user who only uses and compares an OS by its original default installation, without ever tweaking it or trying to improve its functionality and workflow - both areas XP still has much more flexibility in, then perhaps its for you... this Vista ME 2.

Win Explorer - A lot could be said about this shit heap it many ways its gone backwards from where XP left it off at, it continues to be the biggest pile of crap to work with and look at and well I wouldn't even dare think of trying to customize it, even to improve it just a little.. MSuck design everything to the highest of every users standards(noob lab testing i guess).. And don't even try adding any far superier shell extensions to it without it looking even more shit that it already does, what with those highly configurable bars, jk.. they've pretty much trashed and noobified the Explorer in so many areas. They must hire some real idiots in the file Explorer department, I wonder if they work in the same building as the Internet Explorer team... probably.

Does that useless drm shite background process audiodg.exe introduced in Fista, still chew up extra cpu% cycles with each additional sound stream.. oh it does.. shhhh don't benchmark that against XP(where audio and sfx is pretty much handled by audio hardware)... well thanks Microsuck, dunno why PC users even bother buying a proper sound hardware anymore, you've pretty much made it useless and more of burden and a driver headache. But hey you can control individual application volumes when you do get it working.. what a value add!.. wow its almost like they forgot most half decent apps outputting any sound usually provide there own volume controls UIs/ keyboard, shortcuts most likely user configuable etc well except for Flash and Silverlight.. it would make faaar to much sense to provide users with a rmb context to control sound with those browser objects.. leave it upto web developer, they always know best :) NOT (things MS really fail at providing adequetly because they do everything right, don't they ).. oh well maybe they did it for the DRM afteral.

And look they've re-organized so many dialogs layouts for the bett-ards.. instead of less steps to do the same shit.. its more!.. yay well done, Microsuck I luv all those shity seperated control panel layouts, its not a mess at all (I guess tabbed dialog UI's that were all focused around providing settings to similar areas of customization are better seperated and noobified.. hey it looks good in the shit explorer window, and you get to use the crap crumb bar, I love the stale crumb bar, did you know you can customize it? nah jk )

Or what about that incredibly well thought out defaulty fat iconed nub looking taskbar with just icons (they didn't copy the dock.. no no this was an original Windows pre 3.x design.. soo good for todays degeneration they've gone back to the idea :P ) .. weee now I can run my mouse over everything and see the pretty gradiants.. ooh look and I get to see which documents I have opened just by moving my mouse over each button.. wow that's incredible... and look if use [mmb] on most of MS own crap software, like IE, it opens a new document.. LOL did they fail to see that perhaps [mmb] would be better suited to universally closing applications (see as the RMB context now doesn't even appear directly next to the cursor.. no thats better spaced above the cursor.. extra fail points... I mean its not like every [mmb] button usage on most tabbed ui's has been defaulted too(closing).. almost like a standard.. they really do have a problem with following standards.. You know what really amazed me.. they somehow weren't totally confident on there new crap taskbar, and managed to provide an extra option for extra special users a way of reverting back to the original taskbar with text..clap welldone, its just a shame the only real improvement on the taskbar is the jump lists, and the visual file transfer progress bar.. thats really about it, no mousewheel sensitive taskbar app switching, no improved file D&D support onto a taskbuttons process, and a complete lack of user control on what mouse buttons like [mmb] do on the taskbar etc.. fail.

I guess if MS weren't targetting there OS for the nub market they might have gotten somewhere by now, but this year I feel its probably worth saying Apple Macs are great, go buy one :D I believe they also make an OS for the newbie user.

SheepFactory
01-13-2009, 03:02 AM
But does it come with Songsmith?



http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/index.html

khendar
01-13-2009, 03:05 AM
I guess if MS weren't targetting there OS for the nub market they might have gotten somewhere by now..

Somewhere....other than the biggest selling operating system in the world ??

ZacD
01-13-2009, 03:09 AM
Vista is extremely underrated, I've had 64bit vista ultimate for over a year, I've had no BSOD (well one when the GPU got fried, not vista's fault), very little crashes (the only ones I had were due to google chrome), No driver issues, it manages ram well (I'd rather it using ram to preload programs than wasting it just sitting there), most apps launch quicker and handle better in vista vs XP. I never have had a virus, don't even have antivirus, no spyware, its been a lot better to me than xp.

I have yet to try win 7 but I'm going to be buying it.

(BTW Microsoft doesn't make custom OS for the different levels of techies, they make OS's for your Mom, Grandmother, Great uncle, people that don't know what ram is for, and I believe they are doing a great job at making an OS for everyone, just wish it was easier to tweak.)

Bullit
01-13-2009, 03:12 AM
All okay except windows explorer which is utter X"!?!!%& ! and many organisational inconsistencies. You are never sure everything about some issue if it is managed from only a window or from another place too.

Performance wise i am in 4 year old laptop so that means something. Without all bell and whistles down i seems equal or better than a XP install.

tfortier
01-13-2009, 03:14 AM
From the tech people and reviewers its definitively a big big improvement and obviously the best windows out there. No more annoying popups, you can turn that down. Network connecting is simple and flawless and everything is more snappy. It also use less ressources than vista and is more compatible with old computer and underpowered netbooks. So far so good!

Go on engadget for more info...

salmonmoose
01-13-2009, 03:21 AM
From the tech people and reviewers its definitively a big big improvement and obviously the best windows out there. No more annoying popups, you can turn that down. Network connecting is simple and flawless and everything is more snappy. It also use less ressources than vista and is more compatible with old computer and underpowered netbooks. So far so good!

Go on engadget for more info...

I grabbed the 64bit version so it's not much use on my collection of low-spec machines, I also don't think it's a very appropriate OS for what I use my EeePC and EeeBox for. Whilst I'm sure it could run, I think the user experience would be less, with an 8th of the ram, and processor speed, a single core, and no GPU to speak of. You just can't strip it back like you can with Linux.

ZacD
01-13-2009, 03:21 AM
IMO Vista needs 3 gigs of ram to run decently, it seems win 7 just needs 2.

salmonmoose
01-13-2009, 03:32 AM
IMO Vista needs 3 gigs of ram to run decently, it seems win 7 just needs 2.

I ran Vista on a 1 gig Athlon 3000+ for a couple of years, sure was a bit slugish, but always seemed to be sluggish more on it's own time, whereas XP always seemed to want to be slow when I need it to be snappy.

Although, I'd never go back now I've had 8 gigs.

salmonmoose
01-13-2009, 03:53 AM
But does it come with Songsmith?



http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/index.html


Oh lawd, that's hilarious, who said no one had a sense of humor in Redmond.

Lone Deranger
01-13-2009, 03:56 AM
I've been giving various incarnations of Windows the finger for years. Didn't need a touch screen for that. :D

Jokes aside, Windows 7 overall sounds like a step in the right direction though. I hope the developers can keep a steady course and see this thing out the door in good form and in a timely fashion.

They mention in the movie interacting with only your finger.

salmonmoose
01-13-2009, 04:20 AM
Heh, apparently the downloader requires you have silverlight, MS really don't want to grab that Linux market do they? (Was going to try and see how it ran on my EeePC).

mtartist
01-13-2009, 04:59 AM
I wonder why no one has mentioned the killer feature of Windows 7.

Microsoft Paint!

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1940/painted2.th.jpg (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=painted2.jpg)



Complete with different brushes and shapes!

R10k
01-13-2009, 05:09 AM
Here we go with more Vista mis-information and opinions that the originators can't seperate from fact.

Yup. Vista has been superb for me. Once the bugs with drivers (mostly graphics card ones) were sorted out, using Vista has been pretty much a painless affair.

Bring on 7.

salmonmoose
01-13-2009, 06:28 AM
I wonder why no one has mentioned the killer feature of Windows 7.



Complete with different brushes and shapes!

Yeah it's about time - Wordpad has had a refresh too, but that's only as old as Win95, Paint has barely changed since 3.0.

It's now actually USEFUL for those random times when photoshop is too much to bother with

I understand there's a refresh on Calculator too.

Lone Deranger
01-13-2009, 10:35 AM
And then there was Songsmith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTXG2uKNLIw) . :eek: :argh:

I didn't think they could do worse than that seinfeld commercial.... but....... I was wrong. :surprised

Yeah it's about time - Wordpad has had a refresh too, but that's only as old as Win95, Paint has barely changed since 3.0.

It's now actually USEFUL for those random times when photoshop is too much to bother with

I understand there's a refresh on Calculator too.

Boone
01-13-2009, 12:28 PM
Yeah it's about time - Wordpad has had a refresh too, but that's only as old as Win95, Paint has barely changed since 3.0.

It's now actually USEFUL for those random times when photoshop is too much to bother with

I understand there's a refresh on Calculator too.

Absolutely - about time Microsoft gave into witchcraft.:wise:

ccherrett
01-13-2009, 01:07 PM
I never have had a virus, don't even have antivirus, no spyware, its been a lot better to me than xp.

Can you explain how exactly you know the virus status of your computer?

Saurus
01-13-2009, 05:37 PM
If you're a PC tablet user, Window7 in amazing. I thought Vista's tablet feature was awesome (over XP), but Window7 takes it to another level. I have a TC100 with a broken keyboard, so I'm all pen input. With Vista I limit myself to short emails, but with Window7 I could see myself writing long docs.

cheebamonkey
01-13-2009, 05:50 PM
I had to stop at "We are Windows GURUs" :)

Seems MS likes to think a lot of themselves. I know it is marketing but I believe it goes far beyond that.

Anyhow back to real life. I have a lot of 3D to work on :)

really? Which company thinks the gimps in their stores are geniuses, which is FAR from the truth? Oh yes, $teve Job$' Apple. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your product or your work, is there?

cheebamonkey
01-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Can you explain how exactly you know the virus status of your computer?


oooh oooh, pick me!!!


the lack of extra charges on his credit cards and he still has identity?

:)

3rd-Axis
01-13-2009, 09:21 PM
I remember back in the day when I had no antivirus on my computer and since it seemed like it was running fine I assumed I had no viruses. Then I burned a friend a cd and he did have an antivirus app on his computer. He called me up and was like "Dude!? Do you realize how many viruses popped up from that cd you burned me?" So I downloaded a free program and ran a virus scan and I remember my jaw dropping when I realized I had one virus after another. Now I never run windows without an antivirus installed.

ZacD
01-13-2009, 09:36 PM
Can you explain how exactly you know the virus status of your computer?

I had a free trial of something the first 30 days I installed the OS, recently decided to download Nod32 and another spyware trial, nothing showed up on either one.

Gentle Fury
01-13-2009, 09:51 PM
CheebaMonkey...do you work for MS?

JDex
01-13-2009, 10:11 PM
I've installed the latest build and have been playing with it for a few days now. It's been a bit frustrating actually. While in theory many of the new improvements seem nice, but in practice, things seem harder to do (in terms of efficiency). I held off on reviewing this until I felt it was no longer just me being "used" to the earlier windows ways of working, and to make sure I wasn't being unnecessarily obstinant. But this feels slower, and frankly less usable than XP did when I first tried the Longhorn beta.

MS seems hellbent on fixing problems that don't exist, or apply to many... while again neglecting performance and user efficiency. The installs get bigger, the overhead gets bigger, the interface gets bigger... the usefulness gets smaller. Drive seeks are slower. NTFS encryption/decryption time seems slower. Interface response is slower. many of these things could be because things aren't optimized, like drivers and so forth, but I'm not feeling enticed to think about upgrading my systems by this build.

I hope they turn this around before release, or they may have to extend the life of XP another decade.

mustique
01-13-2009, 11:32 PM
Yea, NTFS feels a little bit like the Queen.
WinFS will have to wait just as Prince Charles has to, he he!

richcz3
01-13-2009, 11:36 PM
Installed the 64bit Beta on a standby XP rig
AMD 3400 - 2GB RAM - nVidia 7800. A system I would never have considered for Vista64.
Install went very smooth and all drivers installed without issue. I'll have to load some games and see where that goes.

As others have already noted - Vista64 hasn't been a problem at all. In fact, I've been updating my XP rigs. Everything has run without issues. Its tough sitting back on a rig with XP on it.

Being that I've already invested in Vista64 - It will be interesting to see what if any compelling features W7's final release will have.

Michael5188
01-14-2009, 02:02 AM
And then there was Songsmith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTXG2uKNLIw) . :eek: :argh:

I didn't think they could do worse than that seinfeld commercial.... but....... I was wrong. :surprised

Oh...please tell me that video was a joke.

Really.. was that video a joke?

khendar
01-14-2009, 02:10 AM
Oh...please tell me that video was a joke.

Really.. was that video a joke?

Are you laughing ? :P

R10k
01-14-2009, 02:41 AM
Drive seeks are slower. NTFS encryption/decryption time seems slower. Interface response is slower. many of these things could be because things aren't optimized, like drivers and so forth, but I'm not feeling enticed to think about upgrading my systems by this build.

Sounds like a beta to me.

ccherrett
01-14-2009, 02:55 AM
really? Which company thinks the gimps in their stores are geniuses, which is FAR from the truth? Oh yes, $teve Job$' Apple. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your product or your work, is there?

I believe in "Let another man's lips praise you". I find Microsoft to be the most arrogant nasty vicious computer company to date. They push hard agendas, care not for other people, so yes I find it very humorous when a few guys pop up and proclaim they are the best on an operating system that is by far the worst in many areas. Oh and if I was asked I would say that Apple would have locked us down far more that Microsoft if they had won the first round, but I fear they will win the next.

ccherrett
01-14-2009, 02:57 AM
I had a free trial of something the first 30 days I installed the OS, recently decided to download Nod32 and another spyware trial, nothing showed up on either one.

OK fair enough. The original post did not sound like you had tried any anti virus.

Thanks

ccherrett
01-14-2009, 02:58 AM
oooh oooh, pick me!!!


the lack of extra charges on his credit cards and he still has identity?

:)

Sorry the question was not for you and has already been answered showing your comment to be incorrect.

JDex
01-14-2009, 03:13 AM
Sounds like a beta to me.

Aye... Longhorn didn't have the same complaints from me though. It was ahead of it's predecessors by public beta in all performance scenarios I can recall.

salmonmoose
01-14-2009, 04:03 AM
I've installed the latest build and have been playing with it for a few days now. It's been a bit frustrating actually. While in theory many of the new improvements seem nice, but in practice, things seem harder to do (in terms of efficiency). I held off on reviewing this until I felt it was no longer just me being "used" to the earlier windows ways of working, and to make sure I wasn't being unnecessarily obstinant. But this feels slower, and frankly less usable than XP did when I first tried the Longhorn beta.

I assume you're using the same 7000 build that the rest of us are. Some things admittedly took me a little time to get my head around. Although as someone who'd switched out of XP and into Vista, I imagine I had some habits that helped me get through the pain.

I've found with Vista, and to some extent Windows7 navigating by mouse alone does not work so well as a keyboard / mouse team or even keyboard alone. I spend my time clicking on a search box, entering a few characters, and finding the task I want. This is probably not the most user friendly experience, but as a coder, it works for me, because I can zip around using the keyboard only.

R10k
01-14-2009, 04:05 AM
I find Microsoft to be the most arrogant nasty vicious computer company to date.

You should get out more. Microsoft are typical of a company of their size.

They push hard agendas, care not for other people, so yes I find it very humorous when a few guys pop up and proclaim they are the best on an operating system that is by far the worst in many areas.

A company like Microsoft is large enough to be made up of both good and bad people. Also, saying "far the worst in many areas" makes no sense. Each OS has its good and bad points. Considering the backwards compatability Windows allows, and the configurations and programs it works with, Windows is a very solid program.

ZacD
01-14-2009, 04:09 AM
I believe in "Let another man's lips praise you". I find Microsoft to be the most arrogant nasty vicious computer company to date. They push hard agendas, care not for other people, so yes I find it very humorous when a few guys pop up and proclaim they are the best on an operating system that is by far the worst in many areas. Oh and if I was asked I would say that Apple would have locked us down far more that Microsoft if they had won the first round, but I fear they will win the next.

Hard agendas? XP was out for around for 6 years before vista, that's really long in terms of OS and technology. They try to make their OS for the masses and they're competitive, that doesn't make them the devil reincarnate. I seriously doubt apple will "win next round" they are still at 15% or less of the market, their OS changes less than windows, everything they make is overpriced (epically the standard stuff, headphones, computer monitors, ect.) I'm not a big Microsoft fan nor Apple fan, I use both OS daily, own products of both. They each have their own faults, and I must say Vista has treated me a lot better than XP, and I'd expecting Win 7 to be even better, there's a lot of things I don't like about windows, but I can only dream.

khendar
01-14-2009, 04:11 AM
Oh and if I was asked I would say that Apple would have locked us down far more that Microsoft if they had won the first round, but I fear they will win the next.

Shall we go into Apple's dirty development practices ? :)

JoshBowman
01-14-2009, 04:33 AM
Shall we go into Apple's dirty development practices ? :)

Ohh yes please, grandpa Khendar, tell us the rotten apple story again!

Pyke
01-14-2009, 05:35 AM
The best release of Windows for me was Win2k. Extremely stable, bare bones when you needed it, no flash or fading menu's. Hell, I think you could even turn off AA on your text. I really wished they had pushed forward with that design philosophy with their next releases.

There are so many better paint options out there than MS Paint, so many better word editing options out there than word, notepad, better calculators, better browsers....I wish that MS would release an OS that was just that-an OS. Offer to versions, one with the 'lifestyle' stuff on it (the music players and editors and sound things and all that iLife crap), and one that is just a bare-bones OS.

I don't even want it to find drivers for me. I want it to JUST run the programs I want to install and run.

az3d
01-14-2009, 05:39 AM
just looks like more eye-candy to add further to vista instability.
If you've read reviews you wouldn't think so, there is a lot more functionality and bug-fixing according to PC World. Most reviewers are saying that so far Windows 7 is going in the right direction.

Apoclypse
01-14-2009, 06:13 AM
I do have to say that them stealing Apple's dock is the best thing to ever happen to windows. It has made the taskbar actually useful. I'm quite impressed but I was also impressed with Vista when it first came out because it was so damn pretty, but after using it for a bit, it was a kind of mediocre experience. I'm not going to give up my Mac for a Windows 7 machine as I don't think I will ever go back to Windows other than at work, I still think that the team MS put together this time around are at least trying to improve the experience, not just make it prettier.

darkZ
01-14-2009, 06:15 AM
I understand the need of the coder community especially for the so called "bare bones" OS. Vista can always turn of all the bling if you want it that way. But as a company Microsoft has to cater to the masses which is in my opinion 90% casual users and the remaining 10% as enthusiasts or professional coders and developers. So as successful product Vista was a step in the right direction, Win7 after fixing the bugs and performance improvements just takes it further.


The best release of Windows for me was Win2k. Extremely stable, bare bones when you needed it, no flash or fading menu's. Hell, I think you could even turn off AA on your text. I really wished they had pushed forward with that design philosophy with their next releases.

There are so many better paint options out there than MS Paint, so many better word editing options out there than word, notepad, better calculators, better browsers....I wish that MS would release an OS that was just that-an OS. Offer to versions, one with the 'lifestyle' stuff on it (the music players and editors and sound things and all that iLife crap), and one that is just a bare-bones OS.

I don't even want it to find drivers for me. I want it to JUST run the programs I want to install and run.

Shady3D
01-14-2009, 09:33 AM
y would any one try that sick Microsoft OS, i didn't get the beta and never will get it, and when the new version will come i will stick with my Linux + Windows XP combination.

I've been using Windows since windows 95 and till vista and then i found the fact that windows suck, so i installed Windows XP and searched for alternatives, so my options was Mac OS X or Linux, but Mac OS X needs a lot of cash to be able to get good environment (iWork, iLife,....), and to dump my current PC, so i passed

in other way i tried Linux BEFORE (Fedora) and we didn't get along, so i decided to try it again with Ubuntu and i was surprised with every thing, from the speed of doing tasks, handling hanged software, multitasking, very easy interface that i can customize freely without getting another software to do this for me AND PAY FOR IT, and the very powerful command line, the free software that can make anything and everything, and the fast development of it (every 6 MONTH a new Ubuntu is born not 6 YEARS), and the list goes on and on.

the only thing that makes me stick windows XP in my PC is Flipbook Pro, Photoshop, and SOME Games, any thing else is just in Linux as a Linux version, alternative or emulator.

and also another thing u will not need to format ur Linux OS, and install it again as Windows as Linux is known well for its stability, so Linux is the MAIN OS for the servers, and in studios, and NASA :buttrock:

inguatu
01-14-2009, 12:19 PM
and also another thing u will not need to format ur Linux OS, and install it again as Windows as Linux is known well for its stability, so Linux is the MAIN OS for the servers, and in studios, and NASA :buttrock:


hrmm.. have any hard facts on that information? Or are you just spouting off Microsoft trollism/Linux fanboyism?

I'm particularlly curious on how you know the percentages of what NASA is using considering you are Egyptian, working in Eygpt and probably don't have clearance or access to NASA's network or engineers. Also what is "the servers"? Servers around the world, collectively? Have you canvased the planet polling all ends of the earth for this information.

I love (hate) people who spout off all this crap in order to back up their weak argument. Pitiful, and definitely Shady.

Shady3D
01-14-2009, 12:45 PM
hrmm.. have any hard facts on that information? Or are you just spouting off Microsoft trollism/Linux fanboyism?


there are many articles talking about this, but with my little experience with Linux i am saying that


I'm particularlly curious on how you know the percentages of what NASA is using considering you are Egyptian, working in Eygpt and probably don't have clearance or access to NASA's network or engineers.


about NASA sure we don't have any thing to do with NASA in Egypt, but if u looked at the fedora's project site u will find this information with pictures :deal:


Also what is "the servers"? Servers around the world, collectively? Have you canvased the planet polling all ends of the earth for this information.


and about this i am sorry about it, what i meant to say is that large percentage of servers runs Linux, and u can check wiki if u want to be sure.


I love (hate) people who spout off all this crap in order to back up their weak argument. Pitiful, and definitely Shady.


so.

Tamis
01-14-2009, 01:31 PM
Also what is "the servers"? Servers around the world, collectively? Have you canvased the planet polling all ends of the earth for this information.


It's sad to see someone make a comments like this, you darn well know what he is trying to say! you are just taking advantage of the fact that his English skills aren't perfect.

Further more windows never got famous for its server side, it was it's client side that made windows big. The idea that NASA's servers run on Linux is very likely to be true.

RobertoOrtiz
01-14-2009, 01:57 PM
Knock it off.

This is my only warning.
-R

danlefeb
01-14-2009, 02:44 PM
Wow, this topic has gotten off the original topic.

I finally got Windows 7 installed last night on an older desktop after a few days of randomly playing with it here and there to get it installed. The issues I was having weren't due to Windows 7 at all, but were due to an older BIOS that wouldn't allow me to boot to a USB DVD drive (anyone know a way around that?). The computer I installed it on didn't have an internal DVD drive. After some playing around, I ended up just copying the install files to my local hard drive and installing Vista and then upgrading to Windows 7 on a secondary hard drive.

My first impressions were that it's very similar to Vista - at least graphically. It also seems to run faster than Vista on my older system (I've also got Vista Business Edition on it - dual boot). Despite beta testing and using Vista for years, I've never personally had any of the issues that other people claim to have with Vista on any of my computers, so that 7 looks and acts like Vista was a good thing in my opinion. The only hardware configuration that didn't come through from the Vista upgrade to 7 was my Quadro FX 500 card didn't get recognized, so Windows installed the generic driver. I ran an automatic search for new drivers and it found it, installed it, and worked fine. So far, I'd say I'm pretty impressed for a first public beta!

SalvadorRuizJr
01-14-2009, 04:27 PM
I installed on my Mac Pro and it worked right off the bat. Everything running smooth so far, and I haven't had to download any drivers (though there were updated drivers for my monitor and graphics card).

Pyke
01-14-2009, 04:51 PM
I understand the need of the coder community especially for the so called "bare bones" OS. Vista can always turn of all the bling if you want it that way. But as a company Microsoft has to cater to the masses which is in my opinion 90% casual users and the remaining 10% as enthusiasts or professional coders and developers. So as successful product Vista was a step in the right direction, Win7 after fixing the bugs and performance improvements just takes it further.

Oh I definitely agree with you there. Im not talking about a Windows thats 'programmer savy', that you would have to run everything through a command line...Im talking about a windows without the fluff.
What I want is a windows that doesn't have the things that aren't essential to its running. I don't WANT to have paint, calculators, word programs. I don't want the extra animations that zing and whoop and slide across the screens. I don't want fancy 3d transparent windows, and a gizmo/gadget toolbar that tells me stocks and the weather.

Now I know that most of that stuff you can turn off-but the thing is that just because its not doing at that point, doesnt mean its not loaded into memory, or wasting precious hard-drive space.
Have a 'lifestyle' version of windows, and have a 'bare bones' version. It cant be that hard to remove the extra stuff. I don't even care if they charge the exact same amount of money, when I'm clearly getting less-cos I WANT less.

I don't just mean this with Windows tho-I mean it with OSX as well. My brother bought a MacBook, and while it is a very nice piece of hardware, and the OS is very slick-i think it would be better without all that iLife crap. The thing is that Apple advertise the fact that you can 'do it all out of the box'. Windows has always been a more mainstream (and IMO, superior and far more flexible) OS.
I'm not hoping that they move forward, but rather that they take a step back. I know its just wishful thinking-but there are A LOT of professionals that (I think) are hoping for the same thing I am.

Im always holding out for GOOGLE to release an OS. They have a flair for getting interfaces just right, and their design always follows the motto of 'Keep it simple'.

Digiegg
01-14-2009, 05:17 PM
I really don't understand why people hate Vista so much.
I mean... honestly, okay, I heard all these fuss about Vista getting errors and eating up memory and what not. That kind of scared me to install it on my computer.
Later on a lot of the people using it were saying it's perfectly fine so I installed Vista 64bit.
It runs flawlessly for me. No errors, nothing. Everything is compatible, driver support for most programs are out there. It uses all the hardware I throw at it.
People should seriously stop talking and actually install the damn thing and experience it for themselves.

Now, what's the biggest reason to go into Windows 7?
I think they're trying to release it because Vista got a bad name.

Shady3D
01-14-2009, 05:35 PM
Im always holding out for GOOGLE to release an OS. They have a flair for getting interfaces just right, and their design always follows the motto of 'Keep it simple'.

i wish this too, and i think it will start from the bottom, as some people managed to run Google Android (OS for mobile devices) on net-book, so i think with some development and a good X window manager (as the current is for mobiles) they will manage to conquer the desktop & laptop world.

I really don't understand why people hate Vista so much.
I mean... honestly, okay, I heard all these fuss about Vista getting errors and eating up memory and what not. That kind of scared me to install it on my computer.
Later on a lot of the people using it were saying it's perfectly fine so I installed Vista 64bit.
It runs flawlessly for me. No errors, nothing. Everything is compatible, driver support for most programs are out there. It uses all the hardware I throw at it.
People should seriously stop talking and actually install the damn thing and experience it for themselves.

and about the vista experience i am not the only one saying that, if it was good studios will be the first to use it, also there is many tests of performance between vista and XP from CG stuff to copying a simple file (u can check ZDnet for more articles about vista and XP and even windows 7).

Magnus3D
01-14-2009, 05:46 PM
So.. how much does Windows 7 suck ? i just downloaded it and i'm planning on trying to install it in VMWare tonight if that's even possible. Anyone knows if it's possible ?

/ Magnus

Michael5188
01-14-2009, 05:51 PM
So I'm not very savvy as far as the new windows OS's go (vista, 7), or very technically savvy period. I have a question I hope can be answered from a level-headed, objective angle.

What reason would I have to upgrade? In other words I'm running XP, things work well and I never have issues with the OS.

So putting aside the fact that people complain about bugs and etc. with the new windows operating systems, what would change for me beyond a new graphical interface, and convient tweaks in the layout.

This is probably a ridiculous sounding question, but I simply don't know.

aaraaf
01-14-2009, 07:03 PM
As far as upgrading and why someone would want to... XP is a rather old operating system. Installing it is a pain on a newer system, especially depending on how old your install CD is. There are a lot of newer pieces in 64bit for newer systems. I never got XP64 running quite right (others have had great success). Vista 64 installed and ran smooth from day 1, recognizing pretty much my whole system. 8 GB of RAM is nice. On a laptop, Vista's wireless features are really solid if you travel fairly often.

It's funny that people complain about finding drivers for Vista to be difficult... on any newer system it seems that Vista installs with what are not the latest or best but at least working drivers and I have to search out working ones for XP. Anything lesser than an XP service pack 2 later-on build is hard to install onto SATA based systems, sometimes requiring a floppy with drivers. This is my own personal experience, not based on what I've read, so it may be very different across the board.

I also find it funny that people bash Microsoft for aggressive marketing... I was close to giving an Apple PC build a go when their anti-Windows/PC ads came out. It would have been my first desktop that was a store bought build in quite some time (Apple's simple cases are really nice). Those ads left such a really, really nasty taste in my mouth I ran. They were deceptive and often flat out wrong in their coloring of Windows and Vista particularly. I really liked Microsoft turning it around on them with the "I'm a PC" ads... never a mention of Apple in them.

As far as Windows7, is the new dock just a toned up version of toolbars on the taskbar? It doesn't look too different from my Vista/XP setup in that way, except a little larger and more obvious (and more finger/touch display ready). I am looking forward to downloading it and giving it a go on one of my spare systems or rather dated (only 32bit) tablet PC laptop.

richcz3
01-14-2009, 07:39 PM
I really don't understand why people hate Vista so much.Well - I had zero intentions of getting Vista at any point. Now as a Vista64 user, I feel MS is largely to blame. It doesn't help that Microsoft's marketing was absolutely horrendous. Add the effective Mac marketing juggernaut = Vista Death.

I mean... honestly, okay, I heard all these fuss about Vista getting errors and eating up memory and what not. That kind of scared me to install it on my computer.Well Vista does have a big memory footprint (and from what I can tell 7 does) but had Microsoft bothered to point out the benefits and application performance gains...But of course not.

Later on a lot of the people using it were saying it's perfectly fine so I installed Vista 64bit.
It runs flawlessly for me. No errors, nothing. Everything is compatible, driver support for most programs are out there. It uses all the hardware I throw at it.
People should seriously stop talking and actually install the damn thing and experience it for themselves.Well that's thanks to public forums like this. Where some objectivity makes it to the surface and people actually try something before following the lemmings in a wholesale bash fest. I'll also note Allot of us are using Vista 64 Bit - not the 32 Bit. I believe Microsoft really needs to get in line with the times and promote the 64 Bit element more than they have been.

Now, what's the biggest reason to go into Windows 7?Because Windows 7 is optimized to run real nice on sub notebooks (net books - 1 GHz 1 GB) which are the next big thing. This translate into overall lower spec advantage for existing Desktops and Laptops manufacturers. Add to that Windows 7 may be the first Windows sold in modular form.

.

aglick
01-14-2009, 08:01 PM
So I'm not very savvy as far as the new windows OS's go (vista, 7), or very technically savvy period. I have a question I hope can be answered from a level-headed, objective angle.

What reason would I have to upgrade? In other words I'm running XP, things work well and I never have issues with the OS.

So putting aside the fact that people complain about bugs and etc. with the new windows operating systems, what would change for me beyond a new graphical interface, and convient tweaks in the layout.

This is probably a ridiculous sounding question, but I simply don't know.

I understand your frustration. With threads like this one (where fanboys spout uninformed propaganda and biased personal opinion as fact), it's hard to know what to believe -or even what's important to understand.

When you upgrade your computer, you will want to install a current OS. This is advised because otherwise you may have compatibility and/or performance issues with the new hardware components inside your new machine.

As an artist currently running Windows XP, you will very likely be using applications that are Windows Vista compatible and 64-bit capable. If you upgrade your system any time in the next 9 months, Windows Vista 64 is probably going to be the best (only?) fit for your needs.

If you wait until after that to upgrade, you will probably have the option of either Vista 64 or Windows 7 64 bit.

Either way, this should be great news to You because on a new system with adequate RAM and processing power, both Windows Vista 64 and WIndows 7 64 will be stable, robust and reliable as an OS for artists. (Windows XP will not)

**Contrary to popular belief - Windows 7 WILL SHARE THE SAME TECHNOLOGY CORE AND KERNEL AS THE CURRENT WINDOWS VISTA.

Windows 7 is not a "new" operating system. It is ONLY a refinement of the currently shipping Windows Vista (and Vista 64) repackaged to address a few cosmetic and security features.

I hope this helps to clear up any confusion.

Adam
BOXXlabs

jasonio
01-14-2009, 08:09 PM
All I want from windows is a customisable interface. I'm not talking skins, I'm talking the entire interaction and the way you do it. I'd like to be able to change, add, or download other peoples designs for the whole OS, windows explorer and IE. I'd like the concept of desktop and windows to be entirely rethought through. I hate waiting for MS to screw their interfaces and apps up again and again. The speed they adapt to change, we'll all be dead before they make it work well. If they'd just let the world at it we'd probably get the perfect OS interface in less than 10 years and they could concentrate on the nuts and bolts. I'd also like an OS that is there the moment I switch the machine on and restarts and fully running in less than 10 secs. And that runs faster on older machines than previous OS's.

I'd much prefer just paying a cheap subscription charge to use the OS with constant updates and new features and overhauls rather than forking out huge money each time.

MS should be forced by the US supreme court to release direct x and make it available on all platforms, Linux and MacOS. They'd really have to make an effort then, direct competition. They'd loose domination and it would be a good thing. The best thing would be platform independent software. That is one install app that runs on any OS.

(Dream on - ed.)

danlefeb
01-14-2009, 08:47 PM
Amazing how any thread relating to Microsoft so quickly gets sidetracked from it's original intended purpose.

What I want is a windows that doesn't have the things that aren't essential to its running.
As Rich says, I believe that is coming... check out this post on ZDnet from March 2008 (http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1285). I haven't done a lot of research into updates on this news, but it wouldn't surprise me to see this come to fruition. Microsoft likes to break things up into different pieces. Plenty of different versions of Vista, 360, etc.

Later on a lot of the people using it were saying it's perfectly fine so I installed Vista 64bit.

I think "Later" is the key word there. When Vista was first released, third-party hardware and software developers that didn't make their drivers right in the first place slacked in making things compatible for a while and that made a lot of things not work in the early stages for Vista. That made a lot of things not work for the 90% of Windows' home users who get their hardware from Wal-Mart for the cheapest price...and they complained.

and about the vista experience i am not the only one saying that, if it was good studios will be the first to use it, also there is many tests of performance between vista and XP from CG stuff to copying a simple file (u can check ZDnet for more articles about vista and XP and even windows 7).

I did tests on my computers between Vista and XP and Vista ran way faster. I haven't run any tests with 7 vs. Vista yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if 7 is even faster yet. Studios won't be "the first to use" an operating system out of the gate. Why change an entire pipeline to a brand new OS as soon as it's released? That's just asking for problems.

What reason would I have to upgrade? In other words I'm running XP, things work well and I never have issues with the OS.

I would think that if everything works for you, keep it that way. But if you're upgrading software/hardware, then it may be time to look to an OS update as well to help support the newer software/hardware. But if you're happy with the way things are working for you now, I wouldn't see a reason to change. Just my opinion.

MS should be forced by the US supreme court to release direct x and make it available on all platforms, Linux and MacOS.

Yay, government control over yet another thing. Maybe while they're at it the courts can force Apple and Microsoft to release their OS's source code, declare Autodesk a monopoly and force them to sell everything off, and then force NVIDIA and Intel to slow down to be fair to AMD/ATI. :D

Digiegg
01-14-2009, 09:25 PM
So basically Windows 7 is more tightly optimized version of Windows Vista?
That'd be nice but I think people are optimizing the vista themselves now(Thanks to black....something guy that has the windows optimization list).
I'll have to wait and see some dramatic increase in performance for me to switch to Windows 7.
Vista 64bit is awesome enough for me right now.

az3d
01-15-2009, 03:35 AM
I do have to say that them stealing Apple's dock is the best thing to ever happen to windows. It has made the taskbar actually useful. I'm quite impressed but I was also impressed with Vista when it first came out because it was so damn pretty, but after using it for a bit, it was a kind of mediocre experience. I'm not going to give up my Mac for a Windows 7 machine as I don't think I will ever go back to Windows other than at work, I still think that the team MS put together this time around are at least trying to improve the experience, not just make it prettier.
Yeah, it isn't exactly a OSX dock, but it builds off the idea, and makes the taskbar a whole lot more useful, adding some time-saving features.

Kabab
01-15-2009, 04:31 AM
I'm really liking window 7 so far...

The install was a breeze it automatically found drivers for all my hardware and installed them...

My games are running faster and i haven't had one compatibility problem so far..

The new UI improvements are excellent.

Great job MS!

salmonmoose
01-15-2009, 05:25 AM
The install was a breeze it automatically found drivers for all my hardware and installed them...

I had to rewrite the installation files for my motherboard before I could get any networking :(

R10k
01-15-2009, 06:19 AM
...rewrite the installation files for my motherboard...

Just out of curiosity... what does that actually mean? :shrug: Do you mean you had to reinstall your motherboard drivers?

Magnus3D
01-15-2009, 07:06 AM
I installed this thingy in VMWare last night and got it up and running within 15 minutes, the installer was smooth and fast with pretty much no interaction required from me. And it ran fast and very well once installed, i even tested rendering with Maxwell Render and it worked fine! :)

Here's a screenshot from my testrun last night. Click to view..
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/1/14/t_Win7inVMWAm_1ffdbbc.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/1/14/f_Win7inVMWAm_1ffdbbc.jpg&srv=img32)

/ Magnus

aaraaf
01-15-2009, 03:18 PM
Checked it out on a buddy's system and here are my thoughts:

1 - Taskbar/Dock - The new dock/taskbar is exactly like I was asking about. A tweaked version of what's been there for a loooong while. Larger icons with some nicer "over" animations. I use this a lot on my tablet systems, and the new look will work much better with touch interfaces.
2 - Overall Look - Even though there are more things going on, it just looks cleaner. I like Vista, but this is a crisper version.
3 - Media Center - Most of my home entertainment runs through Media Center to my HDTV... it's a big deal to me and Media Center uses a lot of the newer very crisp Zune menu setup amd look. Still the same Media Center blue, but a really nice feel. Hopefully there's finally Blu Ray integration into Media Center before launch.
4 - Music in Media Center - This uses the tiled album cover look from Zune and is really, really pretty.
5 - XBox connectivitiy - The Beta updates the interface to look like the new Media Center... very pretty especially on a 1080p display. Finally something pleasant to look at while music is playing this way.
6 - My Pictures - This works more like MediaPlayer/Center/Zune with watch folders. So you might have folders over different drives and locations and any folders added to that list show up here. Very cool and convenient.
7 - Movies - They look nice, Media Player has a zippy feel and Media Center lists all of the on drive content. Would like to check out a DVD to see what it looks like. Media Center has one of my favorite DVD upscaling bits. Drastically different than the XBox (haven't checked it in the NXE, but they always looked really bad).

It felt snappy, the interface was really crisp and simple looking. It just felt really, really responsive. I just can't believe that I'll have to wait so long to use a final production version. Media Center was just really, really sweet. Think I'll definitely have a go at it on my laptop to see what I think of it on an older system.

The one thing that makes me nervous is a fundamental problem with the watch folders for items/documents/files. So few people have any idea where their files are actually stored in the first place (getting it to work will be easy, I'm sure) but backing up is going to take a lot more paying attention to where things are.

Just my 2.

richcz3
01-15-2009, 07:45 PM
On the question of - Why Windows 7?

Here's one reason - MS wants to tap into the growing Netbook market
ASUSTek, MSI Computer, Lenovo Group Ltd., Acer Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co are gearing up with new Netbook lines just ahead of Windows 7. XP now - W7 to follow

And Windows 7 is envisioned as being netbook-friendly, so much so that Microsoft senior vice president Steve Sinofsky praised the new operating systems efficiencies as he waved a netbook in front of the audience at the Professional Developers Conference last fall. I am currently using this netbook, with a 1 GHz processor and 1 GB of RAM, and its running Windows 7, and when I boot it, about half that RAM is still available.

News LINK (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28627170)

Samo
01-15-2009, 09:32 PM
Why the fuss? It will be pre installed in every new PC in the world, regardless of people's opinion (if they have one). Resistence is futile. Windows XP is Microsoft's worst enemy righ now. Only cloud computing can destroy the status quo.

ThirdEye
01-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Why the fuss? It will be pre installed in every new PC in the world, regardless of people's opinion (if they have one). Resistence is futile. Windows XP is Microsoft's worst enemy righ now. Only cloud computing can destroy the status quo.

Do you have any idea of how many people switched to the Mac platform or even to Linux recently?

salmonmoose
01-16-2009, 12:41 AM
Just out of curiosity... what does that actually mean? :shrug: Do you mean you had to reinstall your motherboard drivers?

No, my motherboard drivers refused to install, as they did not recognize the operating system. Windows7 did not recognize parts of my hardware (particularly my network interface) so I needed drivers. This resulted in me popping open the installation files and tweaking them so that they recognized the operating system as Vista.

I've had to do the same thing before - during the Windows 2000 -> Windows XP switch. It seemed unlikely that they'd have changed the driver model AGAIN.

Everything is working smoothly now :)

salmonmoose
01-16-2009, 12:47 AM
On the question of - Why Windows 7?Here's one reason - MS wants to tap into the growing Netbook market
ASUSTek, MSI Computer, Lenovo Group Ltd., Acer Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co are gearing up with new Netbook lines just ahead of Windows 7. XP now - W7 to follow

I'm yet to try it on my netbook - I got a 64bit key, and my netbook is still 32bit :(

R10k
01-16-2009, 01:26 AM
Do you have any idea of how many people switched to the Mac platform or even to Linux recently?

One roll of a six-sided dice should be pretty close, I'm guessing.

Gentle Fury
01-16-2009, 01:29 AM
One roll of a six-sided dice should be pretty close, I'm guessing.

hmmm, thats a pretty ignorant answer....more and more people are switching to apple....the imac and mac mini are making for really affordable solutions that for consumers blow the hell out of windows.

I'll be getting a mac workstation for the first time this year....I've had enough of dealing with windows issues.

R10k
01-16-2009, 02:03 AM
LOL... it was just a joke ;)

Still, not as many people are switching to Macs as Mac people would often like to imagine.

On a side note- I have no idea what people do with Windows to have so many issues they feel the need to switch to something else. I've never had a lot of issues. Windows has always been fairly solid, and everything that is supposed to run under it has done so without a hassle, unless there was an issue with the software itself (or graphics drivers, etc).

Lone Deranger
01-16-2009, 02:33 AM
Still, not as many people are switching to Macs as Mac people would often like to imagine.

Still, more people are switching to Macs than Windows people would often like to admit to.

:shrug:

richcz3
01-16-2009, 02:45 AM
......On a side note- I have no idea what people do with Windows to have so many issues they feel the need to switch to something else. I've never had a lot of issues. Windows has always been fairly solid, and everything that is supposed to run under it has done so without a hassle, unless there was an issue with the software itself (or graphics drivers, etc).You know I would agree with you on that basic premise. I have used 2000 and XP and can say I've not experienced this need to bolt from Windows under any circumstances.

However I build my own rigs and hand them over to various family when they've run their course. I know that once in their hands they install all types of lowly applications that install applets that start on boot up - eating all resources. They cram their C: drives to max capacity which end up fully fragmented. Have you seen what damage a teen can do on a PC? :banghead: Of course they Delete willy nilly without Uninstalling programs ..... I can on and on.

The PCs I handed over to them, once in great running condition are brought to their knees. Generally PC users dump anything and everything into a Windows PC slowly sapping performance and causing system instability. This is not the fault of Windows XP, but the limitation of the users failing to follow basic operation and maintenance they are advised to keep up.

R10k
01-16-2009, 03:59 AM
Yep, I've seen this too. If you take a Mac and shove it into the same situation it also goes awal. But, you don't see it as often as PCs because Windows obviously has a 75% (or whatever it is) market share. People are generally clueless when it comes to looking after computers, and they'll make Windows look bad without even trying.

Still, more people are switching to Macs than Windows people would often like to admit to.

I have no problem admitting Macs are still a long way behind ;)

Kabab
01-16-2009, 06:43 AM
Do you have any idea of how many people switched to the Mac platform or even to Linux recently?
Apple was at about 8% but lost market share this quarter.

Personally I feel sorry for any company that has to try and compete with windows 7.

I'm running the beta here as my primary OS and it kick ass, not bad for a beta OS.

Syndicate
01-16-2009, 11:12 AM
I really wished the had fixed vista. Maybe it will be a free upgrade?

Basically i cannot run messenger... ridiculous.. its a microsoft product. Fails to connect.. Pidgin, Gtalk, Trillian all work fine. Beats me what is wrong. (re-installed, uninstalled.. tried Beta versions etc).

My wacom tablet keeps crapping out and right click wont work with the latest driver.. on xp it works fine (why would it behave differently??)

Windows update stopped working as well.

I have no viruses etc. I am considering getting another hard drive and doing a fresh install, but overall I'm upset that Microsoft have announced a new windows beta and there is no new service pack to be found. And even when a service pack is released... its just a collection of everything that was released previously (for the most part).

I have been using OSX more and more (got a macbook pro) and I'm liking it. The day that Autodesk release 3ds max on OSX together with Vray etc, I will be very happy.

danlefeb
01-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Yep, I've seen this too. If you take a Mac and shove it into the same situation it also goes awal. But, you don't see it as often as PCs because Windows obviously has a 75% (or whatever it is) market share. People are generally clueless when it comes to looking after computers, and they'll make Windows look bad without even trying.

QFA

Macs have their place, as does Linux and Windows...but as long as there are people who don't know anything about computers using them there will be issues, regardless of the platform. About 99% of the issues I've heard people complain about on Windows over the years are because they don't know what they're doing. A decent chunk of these users don't bother to figure out why their issues occur and so don't try to avoid them in the future.

Apple has done a pretty good job of being "average" user-friendly, but the more "average" computer users they win over the more complaints you'll hear about them in the same way you hear them about MS now.

Overall, I think MS has done a great job of handling the "average" user as well as putting out a product that works very well for those who technical-minded people who know how to use it.

@Syndicate - which version of Windows are you using Messenger on? I've got it running with no issues on XP, Vista and Windows 7. And who's to say they won't release a new SP? They released SP3 for XP after Vista came out.

Cheesestraws
01-16-2009, 04:16 PM
I haven't used Windows 7 much but one feature I find interesting is Federated Searches (http://lifehacker.com/5132782/federated-search-puts-flickr-and-much-more-into-windows-7-search) seems like it could be used for some useful things.

richcz3
01-16-2009, 05:38 PM
Overall, I think MS has done a great job of handling the "average" user as well as putting out a product that works very well for those who technical-minded people who know how to use it.I noted on my Vista64 installs that some of the maintenance features (automated hard drive defrag) are done without user input. I'm sure there are other things running on auto in Windows 7 that would have normaly required manual input.
This kind of "average computer user" feature are steps in the right direction for obvious reasons. At least 90% of computer users don't want to be bothered with manual maintenance. And people will drive 30k miles without considering an oil change in their cars...

Of course for those who build their own systems, this is all "system overhead". Of course for those who choose to dig deeper, these can be disabled and done manually. :D

aaraaf
01-16-2009, 10:52 PM
I think that richcz3 is pointing out the main difference between Mac and Windows... Mac is a closed system. It is at once their strongest point (less driver conflicts, more control over hardware and software that is able to install) and their biggest problem (less open, less odd-job hardware, higher cost for "certified" parts).

I really hope that Microsoft somehow prevents the PC manufacturers from installing so much crap when they license Windows 7. And I'm not talking about odd movie players that aren't used so frequently, but more along the lines of the inane wireless network management software that superscedes Windows' own. Installing a fresh non-branded copy of Windows XP on my tablet gave me a massive wireless network signal boost just by not using the crappy wireless network manager that Toshiba likes to bundle. That just doesn't make any sense!

Windows networking has always been easy... a lot of the grief that's given is for network card proprietary management software that is used instead by the PC manufacturers!

Sony was recently charging $50 for a standard non branded Windows install. So they're aware of what it does, and I'm sure that they make money by bundling, and while there's nothing wrong with making money, this practice gives PCs a bad rep.

One of my bosses who went Mac dual boots with XP and he says it's his favorite XP box he's ever used. That's because he's always used the super bloated Dell Windows hatch up of a Windows install that turns off half of the OS in favor of using it's own half written processes.

I really hope that Windows 7 has staunch requirements, like a certain boot time, and that Microsoft keeps the bloat down somehow on the Sony/Dell/Toshiba installs. It would help them quite a lot.

Shady3D
01-17-2009, 08:28 AM
a great Windows 7 review (http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/windows-7-linux-users-perspective) :thumbsup:

Kabab
01-17-2009, 09:25 AM
a great Windows 7 review (http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/windows-7-linux-users-perspective) :thumbsup:
That was not a review it was a windows bashing and linux stroking article....

richcz3
01-17-2009, 06:17 PM
For people who made the switch from XP to Vista in the past year.
Link - ArsTechnica (http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2009/01/16/what-killed-vista-will-make-windows-7-fly)

Having made several builds with Vista64 SP1, this article pretty much sums up the transition to Windows 7 well.

Lone Deranger
01-22-2009, 10:25 PM
Looks like Windows 7 isn't the only thing that Microsoft is slimming down.

5000 job cuts! (http://www.reuters.com/article/COMSRV/idUSN2253052420090122)

Interesting they blame PC market weakness/shift to low-cost netbooks.

richcz3
01-23-2009, 05:20 PM
Looks like Windows 7 isn't the only thing that Microsoft is slimming down.

5000 job cuts! (http://www.reuters.com/article/COMSRV/idUSN2253052420090122)

Interesting they blame PC market weakness/shift to low-cost netbooks.
Blame as in spurious excuse? Not the case. The market rise in netbooks has increased significantly (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081221-netbook-sales-surge-in-economic-downturn-wheres-apple.html) in recent years.
Intel posts 90% decline (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/intel-posts-90-drop-fourth-quarter/story.aspx?guid=%7BF1FD61D8-8F8E-4F89-A09D-3F690689A4D4%7D) in profits reports 1st loss in 20 years. Consumers simply aren't spending on new desktops or laptops as they have in the past.

The list of once solid companies getting hammered by the global recession is sobering. With global consumer spending way down, tight credit markets, jobs in once resilient industries are on shaky ground.

DestroyerU
01-23-2009, 05:34 PM
Looks like Windows 7 isn't the only thing that Microsoft is slimming down.

5000 job cuts! (http://www.reuters.com/article/COMSRV/idUSN2253052420090122)

Interesting they blame PC market weakness/shift to low-cost netbooks.


There is a recession going on right now. Don't tell anyone. It will be mine and yours little secret! ;)

danlefeb
01-23-2009, 06:28 PM
One of my bosses who went Mac dual boots with XP and he says it's his favorite XP box he's ever used. That's because he's always used the super bloated Dell Windows hatch up of a Windows install that turns off half of the OS in favor of using it's own half written processes.

The first thing I do when I take a new system out of its box is to plug it in, put the Windows disk in the drive and reformat/reinstall a fresh copy of Windows. I agree that manufacturers add way too much crap to their systems.

Lone Deranger
01-24-2009, 10:36 AM
Yeah... that's what they keep telling us. Oh well... :shrug: :twisted: :p

There is a recession going on right now. Don't tell anyone. It will be mine and yours little secret! ;)

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