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kemijo
01-06-2009, 10:34 PM
Mudbox 2009 expected in February, Toxik 2009 and Imagemodeler 2009 expected in March.

http://www.fxguide.com/qt/635/autodesk-shows-a-bit-of-os-x-love#more-635

SheepFactory
01-06-2009, 10:50 PM
That is awesome! Cant wait to check out mudbox.

BigPixolin
01-06-2009, 10:53 PM
Sweet! Pixologic needs competion on the mac. Maybe they won't release software with broken buttons and promises.

R10k
01-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Why does someone always pop up to have a go at Zbrush? It's not a perfect app, for sure, but so much of the program has been given away for free, the 'broken promises' line seems a bit dumb, really. I agree with your point about competition, but...

John-S
01-07-2009, 12:01 AM
Bravo!

Over the weekend I just sold my soul to ZB because mudbox not having a mac version etc but once I come to grips with ZB... I'll have mud in my collection for sure!

Thanks Autodesk for your turn towards OS X and thank you Skymatter for creating the program in a way that was prepared to be ported (or whatever the tech terms are for that...).

mental
01-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Mudbox 2009 expected in February
Hopefully this release coincides with the first Mudbox 2k9 service pack for Windows.

/edit: Posted by DarthWayne on the Mudbox forums.
The service pack not only widens the hardware support quite a bit, but gets rid of the majority of reported bugs. As well as that there are a few added features such as a clone brush, ability to reorder paint layers etc etc....The short version is that itíll have been worth the wait. Obviously the guys want to make sure as many of the bugs (if not all) are nailed in this service pack before release.

Sonk
01-07-2009, 01:34 AM
Hopefully this release coincides with the first Mudbox 2k9 service pack for Windows.

/edit: Posted by DarthWayne on the Mudbox forums.

Meh, even if the service pack was release in Feb, it still does not have layer blending modes...so much for any serious texturing. I think Wayne mention layer re-ordering, which is a nice start..but no layer blending mode ala Photoshop :( .

not that this matters to me, but also no clone tool according to one of the Autodesk folks.

Imhotep397
01-07-2009, 02:05 AM
Why does someone always pop up to have a go at Zbrush? It's not a perfect app, for sure, but so much of the program has been given away for free, the 'broken promises' line seems a bit dumb, really. I agree with your point about competition, but...

Dude, ZBrush users had to wait, what was it, 3 or 4 years for Z3 while the company said it was coming out or hinted at it every 6 months or something and then Mac users had to wait another year and a half after that I think? Whatever criticism Pixologic may get now they have fully earned. ZBrush still has a huge advantage over MudBox because they don't have to rely on the user's GPU, but the company should not be an untouchable "Princess."

R10k
01-07-2009, 02:32 AM
No one's saying it's an untouchable princess. But, people really do whine about it for no good reason all the time. I agree with you that the app needs a better UI designer, and Pix's way of talking to those waiting for the app on Mac was pretty horrible. No doubt. That said, Zbrush isn't Mudbox. It's Mudbox, plus it's a whole lot more. Zbrush can perform more tricks than Mudbox ever will. That's not excusing Pix being silent about the development process, but there could be some very good reasons Zbrush took longer to turn around than expected. So, save the whining. We all know what's good and bad about the app and it's makers, just as we know about Mudbox's. After all, Mudbox is trailing a million miles behind 3D Coat in the painting department, despite having the backing of Autodesk, while 3D Coat is written by one guy. Different apps are different apps, and sometimes development doesn't go as swimmingly as expected. I suspect that's the case of Zbrush. It's a complex beast, and having been primarily written for Windows, and not built on 3D hardware, it would have taken a while to port. Competition isn't going to make any difference in that respect.

dmeyer
01-07-2009, 04:08 AM
Great news.

Lets hope Autodesk's poor Mac support is a thing of the past.

Lone Deranger
01-07-2009, 05:04 AM
Okay... I knew about Mudbox being developed for OSX. But Toxik and ImageModeler are a nice suprise.
I was hoping for XSI on OSX..... if they can deliver that I take back every mean thing I ever said about AutoDesk and build them a shrine to worship them in! :D

DarthWayne
01-07-2009, 09:52 AM
Meh, even if the service pack was release in Feb, it still does not have layer blending modes...so much for any serious texturing. I think Wayne mention layer re-ordering, which is a nice start..but no layer blending mode ala Photoshop :( .

not that this matters to me, but also no clone tool according to one of the Autodesk folks.


Yep looks like clone tool wont make it for this service pack (only so many dev guys to go around, and with mac and pc version thats a lot of time to manage.) It was planned, but alas although a possibility for the service pack (I was talking to Dave about it last night) the chances aren't as favourable as they were.

As far as I'm aware the layer reordering is still in the service pack, layer blend modes will be something that would be treated I'd imagine as part of a bigger release than a service pack. (Thats just my personal opinion though.) Texturing is perfectly possible without blend modes by the way... ;)

Wayne...

mental
01-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Even if the service pack was release in Feb, it still does not have layer blending modes...so much for any serious texturing.
That and the default windows color picker is killing me. I'd like to see a window similar to Fusion's Color Correction node integrated with Painter's Mixer Palette.

/edit: I'm still grateful that they included the texture mode in Mudbox 2k9. At the very least you can paint some general placement markers and you use those as a guide in PS.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=136731&stc=1http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=136732&stc=1

Venkman
01-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Mudbox for Mac? I'm pleasantly surprised. I didn't expect that to be released! Cool beans!

DarthWayne
01-07-2009, 06:41 PM
T
/edit: I'm still grateful that they included the texture mode in Mudbox 2k9. At the very least you can paint some general placement markers and you use those as a guide in PS.



Sorry to sound confrontational ..but you are joking right????? I've done some very complex hand painted textures entirely in mudbox time and time again and I wouldn't swap it for anything. A question every user who has this opinion has to ask and answer themselves is it a case of the app being not to your liking (hey its a free world and no one is going to break your arm for using or not using any app), or just that you are stuck into one certain way of texture painting.

I've showed time and time again in the free videos I've done mudboxes painting in depth... I honestly for thelife of me can't see an issue.

Wayne...

Sonk
01-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Sorry to sound confrontational ..but you are joking right????? I've done some very complex hand painted textures entirely in mudbox time and time again and I wouldn't swap it for anything. A question every user who has this opinion has to ask and answer themselves is it a case of the app being not to your liking (hey its a free world and no one is going to break your arm for using or not using any app), or just that you are stuck into one certain way of texture painting.

I've showed time and time again in the free videos I've done mudboxes painting in depth... I honestly for thelife of me can't see an issue.

Wayne...

:P But you were using Photoshop with Mudbox, not totally created in Mudbox, hence the need for layer blending mode. I would be extremely disappointed to have to wait until MBx 2010 for that feature, which IMO along with layer reordering should have been included at the very least. It didn't take very long for Andrew(3DCoat programmer) to add that feature and his only one guy.....

I wonder if anyone else feels that way? I can live without the clone tool, but layer blending mode...not so much.

AJ
01-07-2009, 08:04 PM
I wonder if anyone else feels that way? I can live without the clone tool, but layer blending mode...not so much.
Personally I'd much rather have a clone tool than blending modes.

IMO Mudbox 2009's texturing tools are a great addition but like the modelling tools, they compliment the process, not replace it. You still need a solid 2D & 3D app to create something usable.

mental
01-07-2009, 09:05 PM
/edit: I'm still grateful that they included the texture mode in Mudbox 2k9. At the very least you can paint some general placement markers and you use those as a guide in PS.Sorry to sound confrontational ..but you are joking right?????
I don't see what was offense about my statement. In fact it was a positive statement: I paint a rough layer in MB and finish the texture in PS :shrug:

But since we're on the subject!

- Are there any adjustment layer features (Levels, Brightness/Contrast, Hue, Color Correction, Curves)?
- Is there a burn/dodge tool?
- How about blur/sharpen/smudge?
- Advanced layer masking?
- Non-windows default color picker/mixer?

There is plenty of room for improvement with Mudbox's paint feature. Why should I bend over backwards doing 100% of my texture work in MB when it can be accomplished twice as fast in PS with better results? And why is it wrong to ask for improvements in the first place? Are these unreasonable requests?
A question every user who has this opinion has to ask and answer themselves is it a case of the app being not to your liking (hey its a free world and no one is going to break your arm for using or not using any app), or just that you are stuck into one certain way of texture painting.
Isn't that the same argument ZBrush users cite when people complain about general workflow and interface issues?

/edit: And coming from someone who has used DeepPaint3D, BodyPaint 3D, 3DCoat and ZBrush (among a few others)... I know what features I need.

I've showed time and time again in the free videos I've done mudboxes painting in depth... I honestly for thelife of me can't see an issue.

Wayne...
So you're implying that Mudbox's current paint capabilities equal or exceed that of both Photoshop and Painter's toolset? And that someone who is comfortable with either of the aforementioned applications has nothing more to ask for from Mudbox with regards to painting features? You need to be more understanding when other MB users request a feature. We're not slack jawed yokels just complaining to complain.

705
01-07-2009, 10:24 PM
okay... cool...

wake me up when they port max

;)

DarthWayne
01-07-2009, 11:32 PM
:P But you were using Photoshop with Mudbox, not totally created in Mudbox, hence the need for layer blending mode.

Try any of my recent ones then..... the only reason was that particualr video were just short demonstrations of some techniques that people had asked for....take a look at the textured model I posted on the area last night for example... A 1 hour texture job (that was done in a rush fora last minute client). Done in mudbox without any photoshop support at all.... so yes its possible. Or wait till the rest of wave 2 and 3 hit and se mudbox used to texture stuff on its own..... or the pillar texturing demo video I did to illustrate the projection brush..take your pick I've certainly got enough hours of stuff to wade through for any new user.

So when someone infers that it's useful only 'for blocking out' that makes it sound like its capable of no more than that. It's the same as the very common fairy tale that zb has higher polygon counts... Sorry but when I see non facts being protrayed as absolute facts I have a habit of seing injustice.

No one is sayng that you can't complain or ask for improvements...but many seem to be trying to paint mud as the worst painting software to hit 3d in years... Use proof by all means, independant if necesary. There's not one painting app I haven't used in depth at some point in my years in 3d. Sure its nice to have extra features painting wise but they sure as hell are not absolutes.

People can and will use any software that they like or feel comfortable with but when I see people going out of their way to spread untruths and at best wishful thinking I think it is suspect, (and I'm referring generally here and not aiming it at you). So I urge people to make up their own mind and be prepared to spend the same time they spent on their favorite app to learn it. (I can gaurentee it'll take you a whole lot less time to get better results.)

If mudbox isn't for you..fine..as I said no one is going to get their arm broke for using any app they like. But giving users the impression its useless because you don't like it or its doesn't contain the features that you want is misleading. All I'm asking is that its approached even handed and that no one tries to load the damn dice.

Will texture blending layer mades make an appearance at some point..of course. Does that mean you can't possibly paint anything good without them...hell no. A tool is only as limited as the artist using it. Its a matter of picking the tool that is right for you as an artist, and thats a question only the artist themselves can answer.

Wayne...

mental
01-08-2009, 12:11 AM
So when someone infers that it's useful only 'for blocking out' that makes it sound like its capable of no more than that.
Darth, it was a literal statement with nothing else implied. Read it again:
/edit: I'm still grateful that they included the texture mode in Mudbox 2k9. At the very least you can paint some general placement markers and you use those as a guide in PS.
Taken at face value, what exactly is wrong with that quote?

---
Many seem to be trying to paint mud as the worst painting software to hit 3d in years.
If mudbox isn't for you..fine..as I said no one is going to get their arm broke for using any app they like. But giving users the impression its useless because you don't like it or its doesn't contain the features that you want is misleading.
Who said Mudbox was the 'worst' or 'useless'? What is misleading about saying MB doesn't have such and such feature? Mind you, you're arguing with someone that has owned a mudbox license since v1.0 :curious:

/edit: I'm going to play Devil's Advocate just for the hell of it. I think your rabid support of MB against anyone who says anything remotely negative is ridiculous. I don't appreciate others putting words in my mouth or that you fabricated a short story's worth of disjointed rants based on a 2 sentence statement I made. Which you summarily took out of context and continue to do so despite a clear explanation. In other words: Get your head out of the mud.

gruhn
01-08-2009, 12:22 AM
Zbrush can perform more tricks than Mudbox ever will.

Because nobody else in the world will bother competing with their unique 2d painting? Or do you mean to predict that in areas where they actually compete Mudbox won't implement certain features?

Poisen
01-08-2009, 10:51 AM
I think wayne is just "slightly" biased toward mudbox.

DarthWayne
01-08-2009, 11:53 AM
I think wayne is just "slightly" biased toward mudbox.

It may be worth remembering a few things.... firstly I'm the only person to release mutiple DVD tutorials for both major sculpting apps. I wrote the longest of the 3 zbrush books (and arguably the most indepth), so yes I do know zbrush like the back of my hand as well as mud.

What is anoying me is that I am seing people all over boards (and not just this one making judgement based on what are pure lies.) Unlike a lot of oppinions mine are based on head to head testing....

I support the app I belive is best is that any different to those who support zbrush or 3d coat very vocally...? Why is it 'ok' to laude the praises of any other app ...but the moment I start to point out inconsistancies in oppinions and 'truths' about mudbox the rules change? Do we really need a head count of every vested interest on this and other forums?..it would surely make for VERY interesting reading. ;)

I have supported and used both major sculpting apps .... I'v recieved not one penny from autodesk for the ground up or quickstart video and that just the way I wanted it. They were planned to be free knowledge and thats how they will remain. Wanna know a secret? I hate people passing info off as 'facts' when its nothing more than opinion..so f this were a convo about zbrush I'd still be pulling you on non facts. I am my own boss and as such I answer to no one.

So please deal with the cold hard facts as those aren't open to interpretation.. a cold hard fact wins out over oppinion any day. All the main apps do their job well...if they didn't they would not still exist..I've used and taught publicly all the major apps so how does this make me biased? I use whatever is most powerful at the time, to me that just makes common sense as these are TOOLS. But I find it interesting how oppinions in favour of one app are 'acceptable' while those in favour of others are deemd not to be.

My support is actually quite mild next to the pit bill rabidness of some zbrush supporters and trust me because I was on the sharp end of that for 2 years. The crazy people (and by that I mean the ones who are a screw loose and not your normal user...like the ones that sent me 300 emails a day telling me me, my wife and child should all die..simply because I changed for mud to zbrush back in the day... tell me if that is acceptable please.)

A small handful of very vocal forum posters can change oppinion, thats been proved many times.... that is why I get angry..when I see the same faces on many boards posting the same 'facts' and having many times to try (in vain most times) to correct them its enough to drive a sane bloke nuts. Autodesk are a big company and as such can't be as vocal in correcting people as other smaller comanies can. Someone has to stand up against non facts or are we just to let people lie as much as they like?

So I'm backing out of this thread as I've made my point...I'l leave you with this thought (as someone is bound to bring up the whole autodesk have a monopoloy thing)...they are not the only company in 3d to have a virtual monopoly in 3d, look in other areas that software..why are some 'good' and others deemded 'bad'? Also in cae anyone thinks that I'm the one lying about the videos being free..there are to posts over on the area by autodesk that clearly state that I do not make a penny and nor do not want to. In fact I do them at a pretty hefty personal cost, how many otehrs are prepared to support the app they like in such a way?

Plenty of peolpe have been using mud since version 1 myself included I released the first dvd on it if you remember. ;)

Anyway I'll leave it at that as its bound to turn into a flame war otherwise I've said what I want to.

Wayne...

Poisen
01-08-2009, 12:49 PM
Impressive read Wayne.

But i kind of doubt the whole,

"its a major conspiracy against mudbox and that an ages long blood war is being fought by you against crazed hordes of zealot zbrushers who fail to see the evil of their ignorant software using ways regardless of the rightous facts being clearly shown that mudbox is clearly superior in every possible way in your set of free learning videos."
theory though.

But eh,
thats just me spouting off...
;)

Sonk
01-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Wayne,

I think your missing "mental" point, his isn't saying that Mudbox is only good for rough painting, i believe he just prefer using Photoshop for the fine texturing because it faster for him. Personally i am on the opposite end i would prefer to do most/all of my texturing in Mudbox, but i'll have to wait for MBx 2010 for layer blending modes. The painting engine in Mudbox 2009 is without a doubt the most accurate i ever used, and its extremely fast.

Personally I'd much rather have a clone tool than blending modes.

IMO Mudbox 2009's texturing tools are a great addition but like the modelling tools, they compliment the process, not replace it. You still need a solid 2D & 3D app to create something usable.

That's crazy talk, here's why :P

Having layer blending modes/clone tool in MBx won't replace Photoshop.

BitsAndBytes
01-08-2009, 02:04 PM
Mudbox, Zbrush, <insert software here>, it doesn't matter. Killer art is being created in each package and I'm pretty certain that the artists in question are capable of deciding for themselves which application best suits them, no need to second-guess their choices. I strongly favour competition and this is what we get with Zbrush and Mudbox (and perhaps 3d Coat?) going head to head. This will give us better tools no matter which package we choose and will make sure 3d sculpting is progressing at a faster pace. I personally can't understand those who say 'I hope Mudbox will crush Zbrush' or vice versa. It's the worst thing that could happen even if it's your application that ends up winning. Companies fighting for our money means better products. Just like Internet Explorer users will get a better product due to the competition generated by Firefox, so will Zbrush and Mudbox users benefit from their corresponding competition.

I disagree with Wayne's comment that -'A small handful of very vocal forum posters can change opinion'. I doubt any opinions are being changed, people make their own opinion based upon their experiences with the application, not based upon someone's ranting in a thread. Most likely they end up either preaching to the choir or pissing people off.

Now, I understand that some users develop something akin to a 'fan' feeling towards their favourite software. And I certainly don't see anything wrong in saying you like this or that software and highlight what features you appreciate in it etc. But unfortunately many of these 'fans' won't stop there, and will instead proceed to attack other software which ultimately ends up starting all these flame wars. If you don't like a particular application, please just ignore it and stick to whatever works for you.

AJ
01-08-2009, 03:20 PM
That's crazy talk, here's why :P

Having layer blending modes/clone tool in MBx won't replace Photoshop.
I...

What?

mental
01-08-2009, 03:28 PM
Rubbish
How about keeping your comments within the scope of this thread's discussion. Your condescending and paranoid comments toward other CGTalk members is horrible. And if David Cardwell is reading this thread I would ask him to seriously reconsider Wayne's position as Mudbox moderator. Your personal issues are not our problem Wayne.

Venkman
01-08-2009, 04:15 PM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/profile.php?do=editlist

inguatu
01-08-2009, 04:56 PM
Impressive read Wayne.

But i kind of doubt the whole,

"its a major conspiracy against mudbox and that an ages long blood war is being fought by you against crazed hordes of zealot zbrushers who fail to see the evil of their ignorant software using ways regardless of the rightous facts being clearly shown that mudbox is clearly superior in every possible way in your set of free learning videos."
theory though.

But eh,
thats just me spouting off...
;)

I kind of doubt that whole spin on it.

inguatu
01-08-2009, 05:01 PM
How about keeping your comments within the scope of this thread's discussion. Your condescending and paranoid comments toward other CGTalk members is horrible. And if David Cardwell is reading this thread I would ask him to seriously reconsider Wayne's position as Mudbox moderator. Your personal issues are not our problem Wayne.

Interesting how you single out one word and use that as a basis for a paragraph to berate someone else. Ironic, no?

Wayne does a fine job at moderating the Mudbox threads and is doing a great job on Autodesk's site too providing tutorials to the community, as he did before with the Zbrush community. Pretty silly to call him condescending and paranoid with what he's done so far to help. That begs the real question. What have you done lately to help either community? Oh... troll? Your work here is done. Your personal issues with Wayne are not our problem. Take it to PMs if you feel you need to berate him or anyone else.

Back on topic... Autodesk apps on the Mac.. yay!?!?

John-S
01-08-2009, 05:34 PM
When I seen this thread originally... I thought it would turn into a mac vs pc war. Glad to see it didn't :hmm:

3 New Autodesk Mac products!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

In regards to a "monopoly"... nothing anyone could do about that anyways. But at least we went from a monopoly that was thought might slowely put an end to all mac versions, to... a company CREATING mac versions! Yeah!!! Now we will all have an opportunity to use our favorite OS and hardware....

mental
01-08-2009, 05:44 PM
Pretty silly to call him condescending and paranoid with what he's done so far to help.
:surprised

Condescending in the sense that self-publishing a few free tutorials automatically validates his opinion over everyone else. And that his workflow is the defacto method of getting a job done. Or that the general tone of his response is disproportionate to the rest of this thread. He keeps making sweeping statements about people 'lying' which makes him 'angry' in a relatively benign discussion.

My argument is that he's crying bloody murder when in reality he's only crying wolf.

TheThidMan
01-08-2009, 06:16 PM
Sweet! Now if only i could start using maya over max i could have a full mac based workflow...

Airflow
01-08-2009, 09:36 PM
Id rather you said, "get max on the mac" but that a long way away :)

As to whether mudbox can be used on its own to texture, sure it can. I would not want to do it, as Id not have my texture maps how I like them.
I wont get into the argument, people should always be professional and take the moral high-ground.
Mudbox is improving that statment will suffice.

SilverCity
01-22-2009, 04:22 AM
Here's a small article on the Mac version of Mudbox, with screenshots:

http://architosh.com/2009/01/mwsf-details-on-autodesk-mudbox-2009/

John-S
01-23-2009, 10:36 PM
Rob stated that Mudbox was originally a Weta Digital in-house tool created for the Lord of the Rings films.
I thought Mudbox was created for King Kong?

Grgeon
02-27-2009, 01:01 AM
With two days left in the month, any news on if mudbox for mac will be released in the next 48hrs?

-GC

DuttyFoot
02-27-2009, 01:13 AM
for some reason i thought mudbox2 was out already.

DangerousCliff
03-06-2009, 08:18 PM
So, a week into March- anyone heard any Mudbox on Mac news?

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