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plaguelord
06-24-2003, 02:54 AM
Hi, this is a part of a new project and I really need constructive critics, this is a head in max5, and I look good to me, for is something strange, maybe an expert eye can show waths wrong.

Thanks

pd: my english is not very good so if somebody want to put the image with that nice red circles to show error can be great!:p

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 02:57 AM
front view...

davemcd
06-24-2003, 03:56 AM
OK the first thing i will point out (and because this is the focused critique section, i will try not to pull any punches) is that the mouth area is really letting down the model a lot.

Basically the mouth area is too flat or in the same plane. Even if his lips were pursed they would never make that shape. The lips curve around the face. From the side the corners of the lips should at least be as far back as where the nostrils join the face (at least in relaxed pose). And from the front IMO the lips should be wider than the nose.

If it helps try to get hold of a skull model and take a look at some muscle references www.fineart.sk (http://www.fineart.sk) . Put the skull inside you model and make the skin transparent... try to see whare your geometry shold sit against the skull.

If it makes you feel better just about every head model i've seen people do for the first time has a similar problem with the lips.

Hope this helps.

DaveMcD

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 04:04 AM
thanks dave, that really helpme, in fact, is the head number five, I making head again and again until I reach some nice standard of head modeling. It seems to be the mouth the big problem here. well, I try to fix it and post an update for tomorrow.

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 04:09 AM
hereīs the wire (sorry lild) :rolleyes:

Technofreak
06-24-2003, 05:24 AM
take a look at his page ...it should help you plenty

http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/head1.asp

its the most efficient way of modelling a human head....
especially study the overall topoly/ edgeloops of the mouth
nose, eye, the crease from the nose to the corner of mouth and
the eyebrows .....once you have a general head with
good geometry, you can modify it to make any human head out
of it

also for body and other references... www.fineart.sk

Dave Black
06-24-2003, 05:53 AM
Watch out making statements like "this is the most effiecient way to make a human head." That's simply not true. It is a method. It is also a good tutorial though.

-3DZ

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 07:53 AM
thanks technofreak, but, I already did it the JoA tutorial, and for this head, Iīm already using a bitmap reference from fineart.sk
I tried a lot of tecniques, and I agree with 3DZ, I choose this method, (box modeling + reference image + lots of printed pages with good topology examples), and IMO is the best for me, so now Im doing headīs again and again until I get a nice time/model/texture balance.

pd: see the new version with some fixes on the mounth

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 07:57 AM
perspective view (sorry for the quality/size)

BiTMAP
06-24-2003, 08:04 AM
this might fix it, but it might also be wrong.. But the purpose is to show you that this is what the major problem is, yellow is what it is, blue is what it should be.

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 08:21 AM
thanks BiT, here you can see a level 0 wire, if you can check this topology and put some of that nice yellow/blue lines on it that be great for me

more wires:

ivo D
06-24-2003, 08:27 AM
oke.. ther are some problem with your head.. i would like to poinht you out to the topology thread on this site.. just type it in at the search field.

read all the posts and look at the whires..some where at the end i a whire.. that is,and or was ,the best way to model a basic had.

your mouth looks like he is doing a fish do.. you could widen the forhead a little.. and check those eyelids.. with some refs

BiTMAP
06-24-2003, 08:35 AM
you also need to do the pully back i showed in the last image, but for the front this "Might" help.

this image is so compressed it sickens me! lol but i don't have webspace enough for this stuff

Jonny Bubonic
06-24-2003, 01:31 PM
Just another guy having a go at the mouth...sorry. I'm commenting on this because I see it a lot, that is the "fish lipped" look that ivo D mentioned. The reason for this is that you have over-emphasized the bottom edge of the lower lip near the corners...the transition here should be a lot softer. It's a common thing, as people mistake the colour change between the skin of the lip and the rest of the mouth area as being a hard edge, when its not.

Jonny Bubonic
06-24-2003, 01:41 PM
Oops, forgot to add this....

animatabull
06-24-2003, 02:26 PM
You also need to smooth where the ear joins the head.

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 03:10 PM
thanks guys you are really help me!
Jonny Bubonic, you right, the lower lips look to be the problem. I'll try fix it.
BiTMAP, thanks for the image, more fixes coming!
animatabull, the ears are in another object, they are not attached yet (to speed the epoly...)

(more picts in some hours)

ambient-whisper
06-24-2003, 04:54 PM
Please DO NOT show rendered wires. they are hard to make out and are rather useless. when you show wireframes to us make sure its what you see in the viewport. usually there is an option to show them. or even selecting the geometry will be fine too.

plaguelord
06-24-2003, 05:59 PM
ok, the next time I post viewport screenshots.
well, this are my advances. here are a render and 2 level or wires.
http://www.ancestral.estudioiris.com.ar/3dgallery/Head/render1.jpg
http://www.ancestral.estudioiris.com.ar/3dgallery/Head/renderwire1.jpg http://www.ancestral.estudioiris.com.ar/3dgallery/Head/renderwire2.jpg

visgoth
06-26-2003, 08:27 PM
The corners of the mouth need to be shifted back. Right now they look almost even with the middle of the lips.

The lips are stretched over the teeth and jawbone, which are in a sort of horseshoe shape.

http://www.tpub.com/dental1/14274_files/image066.jpg

Also, the temples need to be sunken in and moved back a bit. He doesn't seem to have any cheekbones, those should be pulled out ever so slightly.

plaguelord
06-26-2003, 09:45 PM
thanks, here the last version:
http://www.ancestral.estudioiris.com.ar/3dgallery/Head/render3.jpg

thanks guys for all your comments, they really help me to learn.

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