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Mik2121
01-05-2009, 08:22 AM
Hello there!. I started a new project for school (first year still). It will be 3D, but I wanted to do some sketches first to get the ideas right.

The scene will be located on a cliff, with an Arabesque city on the background. I already made one sketch for that but I'm not digging it, so I'll do a new one later.

Regarding the characters, there will be two:

Assegai Hunter - An Arab character inspired in Vega and Dhalsim (Street Fighter) as well as the Prince of Persia. His name, Assegai, comes from an African lance, even though he doesn't use a lance himself, but his overall acting is inspired on that weapon (he basically jumps high and fall on top of his enemies).

He will be using a weapon called Katar, but slightly modified so it's attached to his arm rather than having to having to hold it with his hands. It's a two-blades weapon curved so they can penetrate the enemies' skin easier (just like an spear, but two blades instead of one).

I made one sketch and started choosing different cloth colors and patterns. At the end I ended up with this:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/defmodelsv2.jpg

(Here are other color patterns - (1) (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/Char1CVar123.jpg) (2) (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/Char1CVar145v2.jpg) )
These are sketches and what I'll be showing at the end will be just the 3D Models so I don't need to really have it look perfectly balanced right now.


The Peacock Dragon - Just like that. A Dragon with a Peacock feeling to it. I haven't really though up much about it so I can't really write much at all.
Basically I wanted to make a Dragon but with an Arabesque feeling, and after thinking about animals that have that feeling, the Peacock was the one that could suit it better.

I only have one sketch (EDIT - Pic resized now, sorry):

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/dragon2v2.jpg


As always, C&C are welcome!. In fact, they are NEEDED!.

I will start the 3D modelings this week as well.

CybrGfx
01-05-2009, 03:56 PM
REDUCE your image sizes!

800 px is wide enough.

I can't see enough of the second image as a whole, but the guy with the scissor hand has bad anatomy. Arms too long (the scissor hand arm WAYYY too long), legs of odd proportions, with no decent knee joints. The neck area looks terrible, with no real neck at all to speak of.

~C

Mik2121
01-05-2009, 06:20 PM
EDIT - Nevermind. That comment was a bit of a cry from myself. But anyway, there are still some things I don't understand about your comment:

Regarding the length of the arms.. both arms are the same and I might be wrong, but the tip of the hands are supposed to almost reach the knees, right? And that's where they are..

Also, could you tell me what's exactly wrong with the knees?

EDIT - Also, what about the neck? I know I didn't apply the lights correctly but on the last 3 models it isn't really as bad.

Again, c&c are welcome, but please if you are going to insult my sketches, at least give me tips to get better. Otherwise you all will have to keep seeing horrible sketches forever.

Thanks! :)

EDIT - I modified the pics and they are small now. Sorry for that, didn't mean to bother anyone with that.

Mik2121
01-05-2009, 06:29 PM
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/newbody.jpg

CybrGfx
01-05-2009, 07:16 PM
Tears and teeth gnashing accepted. I can be brutal, I know...

Regarding the length of the arms.. both arms are the same and I might be wrong, but the tip of the hands are supposed to almost reach the knees, right? And that's where they are..Not even close.
First, both arms as YOU have drawn them, are NOT the same length...
Here is the left arm, which is close to accurate, reversed, and adjusted for foreshortening.
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9151/att2hf5.jpg
Also, could you tell me what's exactly wrong with the knees?Certainly. Just because you cannot even see the knees, because they are hidden by fabric, does not change the stance, or the balance of the body on those joints, nor the need for consistency in rendering them. It's not bad anatomy, as much as really bad foreshortening. You have the right side of the body abnormally close to the viewer, as if the body were 3 feet wide. The leg, like the arm, is proportionally correct, just sized too large for balance.
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/7652/att3we1.jpg
Also, what about the neck? I know I didn't apply the lights correctly but on the last 3 models it isn't really as bad.Yes it is. It's really not so much the neck, as the skull is flat in the back, and too small in shape...
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/7606/attxi8.gif

Again, c&c are welcome, but please if you are going to insult my sketches, at least give me tips to get better. Otherwise you all will have to keep seeing horrible sketches forever.Telling you your anatomy is bad is NOT an insult. An insult would be to make a disfavorable comparison of you or your work to something bad, such as "You draw necks like they are on chickens..." THAT is an insult. As an artist, do not let your Ego see insult where there is none.

Secondly, it is NOT the viewer's (NOR the critic's) "job" to give you tips to get better. Bad Anatomy, with specific body parts (arms, knees, neck) IS a tip...It is then up to YOU to either take the tip and prove ME wrong in my observation (yeah, SHOW me a human with a body shaped as you've painted it), OR to choose to ignore the observations presented to you (by ANYONE, not just me...), and continue on your merry little unskilled way.

You can do a Google Image search for "Male anatomy" just as well as I can to see examples of how you drew the body parts out of proportion. You don't need any links from me as a tip on how to draw them correctly. I'm just telling you what looks wonky to my eye. YOU asked, I didn't seek you out...

Thirdly, it is NO ONE's grief but yours, if you choose to keep making "horrible sketches." I can add you to my "Ignore" list on these forums, and never see another post by you, beyond the listing on the forums. You certainly are not the first person who likes to draw who does not improve and posts horrible drawings forever. Nor will you be the last.
If YOU want to improve, YOU have to make the effort, and take the tips you are given and choose to improve. It is not the viewer's responsibility, nor concern. Look at how many posts there are in just this one forum...There are more than enough other members' artworks to view and comment on.

Don't worry. No harm, no foul. Welcome to having your work looked at and commented on by others...

~C

CybrGfx
01-05-2009, 07:22 PM
The peacock dragon creature has a lot of potential.

I'd suggest working out a background layer before you work any further on the dragon. It will be a royal pain to try to do it afterwards. Think giant frond plants, check out Rousseau paintings. They don't have to be real, but they do have to have "realistic" values and depth to match this creature.

The jewel tones of peacocks really give this a LOT of promise!

~C

EDIT: There seems to be some glitch with this thread.
This is an edited reply to your edited reply...

Don't know why you found yourself locked out of your own thread. Might be a small software glitch.

I'm glad you understand my intent. As I wrote, tears and teeth gnashing is allowed. Actully you cried far less than some... ;)

Oh yes, having an illustration as you sculpt is WONDERFUL, if only to give you inspiration when you get frustrated because your polys are knotting up. That torso sculpt will definitely work. You could keep those nice muscles, if you adequately render them on the rest of the body.

Language translation is ALWAYS a problem. The English language has SO many words for such subtle nuances of concepts, that many other languages cannot properly shade some phrases. That, too, is something to always keep in mind on forums, so as help you avoid seeing insults that may not be present. Again, no harm, no foul.

Glad I was able to help you see some problems. Look forward to your progress.

~C

Mik2121
01-06-2009, 04:04 AM
Because the thread is kind of a cluster right now, I will post the reply I edited on my last comment.

---------------------------------------------




*takes notes about the whole reply*

Tears and teeth gnashing accepted. I can be brutal, I know...

Not even close.
First, both arms as YOU have drawn them, are NOT the same length...
Here is the left arm, which is close to accurate, reversed, and adjusted for foreshortening.

Oh alright I see that. I will modify it. Thanks!.

Certainly. Just because you cannot even see the knees, because they are hidden by fabric, does not change the stance, or the balance of the body on those joints, nor the need for consistency in rendering them. It's not bad anatomy, as much as really bad foreshortening. You have the right side of the body abnormally close to the viewer, as if the body were 3 feet wide. The leg, like the arm, is proportionally correct, just sized too large for balance.
Uhm didn't noticed that much. Thanks!. I do seriously need to improve on human drawings, I'm quite aware of that. I think I sounded like quite a jerk myself and now I feel bad. Sorry.
Yes it is. It's really not so much the neck, as the skull is flat in the back, and too small in shape...

As an artist, do not let your Ego see insult where there is none.
Yes sir. That's why I modified my last reply. I noticed you weren't really insulting but simply pointing out places that aren't correct and I say sorry.

...and continue on your merry little unskilled way.
That won't happen for sure!. It's all because of what I said before, I read your first reply as kind of an insult at first. I'd like to blame it to the fact that English isn't my native language, but that's just a lame excuse.
What I can blame is myself, but because I've been always more into 3D rather than 2D. Of course my 3D models still are quite bad (I'm still an student, so I believe I can keep improving quite a lot if I practice enough)

You can do a Google Image search for "Male anatomy" just as well as I can to see examples of how you drew the body parts out of proportion. You don't need any links from me as a tip on how to draw them correctly. I'm just telling you what looks wonky to my eye. YOU asked, I didn't seek you out...
Yeah I actually have some Male and Female anatomy prints I got at school, around here I used for my 3D model but I didn't bother using them for this sketch (my bad, obviously).

You certainly are not the first person who likes to draw who does not improve and posts horrible drawings forever.
Hey! Actually I didn't mean that :P I'm for sure not one of those and if I'm studying on another country 16,000km far from my native country, that's surely to LEARN.

Again, I'm sorry for the last reply.

Btw, this is the 3D model I'm doing. It's a model I started before the sketch so I will have to take 'off' a lot of those muscles:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/newbody.jpg

I'm aware of some errors and once I start the 'real' modeling I will post a link here to my WIP thread on the 3D board.

Again, thanks for all the comments and the time you took to reply!. Really appreciated!!!


The peacock dragon creature has a lot of potential.

I'd suggest working out a background layer before you work any further on the dragon. It will be a royal pain to try to do it afterwards. Think giant frond plants, check out Rousseau paintings. They don't have to be real, but they do have to have "realistic" values and depth to match this creature.

The jewel tones of peacocks really give this a LOT of promise!
Reading those nice words from you makes me quite happy! . Btw, those are sketches!. The final version will be all on 3D and those are just for myself, to have some illustrations to see while designing. Do you think I'd need to? Also, the setting is Arabesque.
I have google'd for plants that grow on Arabian countries and they are, as expected, mostly palm trees or similar ones, and then small grass that I don't know their names in English.

*googles Rousseau*

Oooohhh.....

*takes more notes*

Mik2121
01-06-2009, 04:37 AM
Alright I kind of fixed the model as you told me, Cybr.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/fixedone.jpg

Only the one on the right, though.

I will most likely re-draw it at a higher resolution later, so I might leave this one like that unless there are still some big issues.

EDIT - Alright the head looks so weird. That's one thing to fix later.

CybrGfx
01-06-2009, 04:57 AM
Small, yet significant changes.

Looks better. You will be able to fine tune it in 3d, but your foundation will be more sound.

I'm glad you can see the head issue.
Look forward to the update.

~C

Mik2121
01-07-2009, 07:00 PM
I'm starting a new sketch for my background. Again, the final version will be in 3D, but hey!...

I started it about 10 mins ago, so I have yet to draw 90% of the grass and trees around (not much, but still they change the image completely) and I will also draw a city in the first mountain.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/conceptsketch.jpg

The blue dragon will be in the left side of the cliff and the human will be standing in front of him, on the right side.

edit - The tones look quite like a Cartoon as of right now, but I will make it a bit more realistic as I keep making the smaller details.

Also, the small plants on the left cliff need to be down-sized, as they are a bit too big right now. They will be about half that size.

Mik2121
01-07-2009, 07:38 PM
I fixed the size of the plants (I will draw a lot more, but hey.. I needed to get the size correct first, right?)

I also changed the canvas shape to make it more 'widescreen' even though it will probably be printed out on A1, but I might add black (or white?) borders to it.

Lastly, I also added the main character to be able to draw things on it's correct size by comparing them to the human's size.

Also, it's already 4:30AM over here so sorry if my sentences don't make much sense...

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/conceptsketch2.jpg

I might change this a little bit, as the main character and the dragon will be the parts that take most of my time, yet they won't be taking up much space on the canvas (well, the dragon will, but not the human).

Any suggestions on how should I do this? Maybe zoom in a bit more? I don't wont it to be cluttered though.


EDIT - This is the old sketch I did for the city, but I don't like it anymore:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/Oldconceptsketch.jpg

Basically I'm keeping the cliffs where the human and the dragon stands, and I will make a city as well (around the nearest mountain on the right), but not nearly as big.
I made this last sketch during class using the mouse and some screens I got from Google for the mountains and the city, heheh..

Mik2121
01-08-2009, 05:05 AM
I'm at school right now. One of my teachers tweaked my characters a bit during one of the breaks. He is not digging the one with the white clothes at all, but hey... lolz:

OLD ONES>

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/OICMik/humanchar2.jpg

FIXED ONES>

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/OICMik/humanchar.jpg

CybrGfx
01-08-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm not wild about the whites, either. Too "Laurence of Arabia" for me...

What are you wanting to show with this, the character and the dragon, or the scenery?
You have an very great amount of desert, with or without the city.
If the characters are your main subject, worthy of such detail, why are you minimizing their impact?

If you do not want to crowd the scene, keep it simple. Get rid of 80% of all that sand.

Try making just some rough, scribbled comp sketches, with the figures MUCH larger, as the subjects of the painting. You will then find the background to be less dominant...

If you are striving for a Matte painting of the landscape, then you are spending far too much effort on the characters, because they are going to be such a minor percentage of the visual image, that any fine detailing will be lost, even if printed at poster size.

~C

Mik2121
01-08-2009, 05:22 PM
Gah... today was quite a busy day at school.

Anyway, I made a little bit more for the sketch but I just reused my dragon so it looks a bit out of place:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/KimHaeChul/conceptsketch3.jpg

I have yet to add the background city and change some of the colors, but I don't have much time left so I might only add some more plants and then just go straight to the 3D modeling.
(The dragon position is horrible, I know)

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