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Raul-Reznek
06-23-2003, 10:12 PM
Hello every one, first off, i like this new part of the forum, lot more serious

this is the guy

http://azra.eonet.ro/raul/A1.jpg
http://azra.eonet.ro/raul/A2.jpg

I used 3ds max 5(tho i prefered 4),
Render : max default
textures : duh! none :D
Modeling :Spline
Time : 2 days now
Looking for: advice on how i could improove the natural form of this char

Status : 10% done i'd say

I'll have the wires up soon

KingMob
06-23-2003, 10:21 PM
Hey now its my turn to return the favor!

First off, as usual, great look so far, and its very early I know so I won't go into detail stuff.

What I really like so far are the eyes, they have a bovine look to them... kinda pleasant, and pasive if you follow.

I am not a big fan of the cheek line thus far tho, a bit to sharp and such as to where it comes from and ends.

But yeah..10% done so I can't say much. just soften the cheeks jowels a bit I think, and maybe not going into the eyebrow area so much? it just kinda looks like he got cut and its a scar like thing right now,

BTW any concept art for the guy? I would love to see your idea on how he will proceed because hes already looking great. And of course the wires would be keen to see!

Goon
06-23-2003, 10:24 PM
Looking very nice.

The only thing i can crit are the eyes. They are of a forward facing orientation and have the very broud nose mass obscuring a good portion of their close centerline view. This may merely be the perspective that i am seeing with the front view but it seems that it would be more natural to have the eyes rotated to provide more sideways vision (not too much cause the nose aint too honkin big, but a little), which could be done without any loss because of the blind spot

Dave Black
06-23-2003, 10:28 PM
I almost feel as though the ears should connect to the head further back, and also should grow more slowly from the head, that is to say, that they seem to attach like a cylinder to the head as aposed to tapering into it.

I find it difficult to understand the eyebrows. They look almost like cartiledge or bone, but I can't make out the shapes. I think if they are bone, then the skull needs some sort of heavy bone plate as well.

-3DZ

Grayscale
06-23-2003, 10:32 PM
Raul,
I agree with Goon on the eyes portion. Although I would like to know some of this characters history/backstory. Perhaps he uses other senses, such as smell and hearing, to move about. The eyes would not need to move at that point in my opinion.
There is hardly much more that I can say, considering how far along this character is. I'll keep my eye on this guy because he looks to be a very interesting character.
Keep up the wonderful look to him.

Neox
06-23-2003, 10:47 PM
that is a really good model, i definately like the design. the only crit i'd like to give is, that his lips maybe need some more work, they are to straight (is that the right word?) give them a better lips-shape, not really like human lups, but more in that direction. it's mainly the upper lip thats kinda disturbing me.

but i really like him (or her? :D )

Gilgamesh
06-23-2003, 11:08 PM
I like the character.
My suggestions to make the form more natural would be to soften up the hard lines above the eyebrow and around the nose area. I'm looking mainly at the front view, where there are some pretty defined lines showing up. I think the character might flow better if you filled out the eyebrows and the area at the top of the nose, and lessened the crease between them.
Just suggestions, though. Very nice.

Equinoxx
06-23-2003, 11:27 PM
Raul buddy, way different then what i'm used from you and i got to say i like this better ;)

as for critique on the model itself as Ian [kingmob] said, the line going from his brow via the inside of the eye to the corner of the mouth is something that needs work. it's to sharp to be a skinfold and not hard enough to be a boneridge.

I think they will do more justice to the model if you flow both of them into the skin below the eye.

here's a repaint as i think it should be.

Phrace
06-23-2003, 11:36 PM
I totally agree with Gilgamesh...
the sharp edges between his eyes and nose really give the character a weird look...

and maybe the edgeloops at the corner of his mouth could use a review...it doesn't look totally right in my opinion...I think the 2 wrinkles are too close together...I would only use one for this character cuz I guess his skin will be rather thick...

I also think 3DZealot is right about the ears...

anyhow...nice character so far!

Soulstorm
06-23-2003, 11:41 PM
great model, very original too! but now for the crits ;)


well, ofcourse the most overwhelming part you see when you look at him is the mouth. which makes me think about how this creature would eat, and what he would eat. you always have to think about evolution when you make a character, to have its looks make sense. this one looks almost like a crossbreed between man and fish.

CENOBITE
06-24-2003, 06:26 AM
To elaborate on what soulstorm is hinting at... Looking at your creature, he looks great, as sort of a caricature with realistic details.

However, the size of the mandible is quite large. Anatomically, there would have to be massive mucles to power that jawbone. Some of these muscles would connect from the jaw up to the sagittal crest of the skull. If you bulk up the skull to create a good groundwork for these muscles, (check out the skulls as well as heads of animals like heyenas and pit-bulls who have these massive mandibles) you will have a creature that could possibly exist somewhere 'out there'. These muscles would, of course, place the ears just a bit further back on the head.

The eyebrows are an intresting feature... do they move, or are just a part of the skull (for butting against rivals)? If you plan on animating this guy, this is an interesiting part.

Ragnorak
06-24-2003, 07:08 AM
first off id like to say that i love the eye socket area and lips, they look very distinctive to your character and do a very good job to add character. now to make it more natural looking, i agree with 3dzealot in that the ears should either; a, connect farther back and flow more; or b, be connected farther up on the head and droop down.

Abominable
06-24-2003, 07:32 AM
(To me) this character looks more like a tracker/scout than anything on the warrior side. (I'm not implying that that's what you were going for by any means) If he was a tough bugger his brow would suit him, but if he's a lookout/scout type I would make his eyes bigger for observing and less of that brow height.

I say this because over time this species looks like he has grown to adapt to his skills...big ears for hearing and broad, open nostrils for sense of smell. Thats my take, its a tight looking concept and I don't know his backstory so I just thought I'd make that point.

Raul-Reznek
06-24-2003, 02:31 PM
i didn't get the chance to read all your posts untill now so i didnt' do all u guys said

i'll try to be quick

King - what part of the cheek are u refering to?

Goon - i already did this to the new model , you are 100% right

Zealot - you're right, will do later, right now the ears aren't attached to the head, cuz i want to texture

Grayscale - will do

Neox - love your avatar char, i'll try to work on the lip

Giglamesh - can't really picture what u are saying could u do a manipulation?

Yves(Equinoxx) - WOW man that looks super, i kinda did that as u'll see below, but it seems yours looks better, good to c ya again man, long time

Phrace - totally right man, wantd to simulate the feel of skin of mdeium thickness, know what i mean?

Soulstorm - very good analysis man, it is supposed to be a cross of that :D

CENOBITE - you're right bout mandible, will improove later

Ragnorak - will do later as i said and thx

Abominable - hmm, haven't thought about class or anything yet, i still have a lot to do for this guy.

Raul-Reznek
06-24-2003, 02:39 PM
fieuh, now that that's over here is the evolution of the char.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/reznek/test.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/reznek/test1.jpg

and there is the current concept that i couldn't scan...

Raul-Reznek
06-24-2003, 02:45 PM
didn't let me post 4 images back there (???)

3d

http://azra.eonet.ro/raul/A5.jpg
http://azra.eonet.ro/raul/A6.jpg

which is better? first or second?

Blacklion
06-24-2003, 07:04 PM
I like the second better
It flows better from brow to top of skull

The first has too much open space in that area IMO.

noon
06-24-2003, 07:55 PM
I really prefere the second one because of what you chaged under the chin
(don't know how it's called)

The fact that you made those muscles curved gives him a more imposing presence.

Maybe because his head seems less bend this way.

Are you going to keep this hard edge on is neck ?

DimitrisLiatsos
06-24-2003, 10:24 PM
Hi..beuatifull character ...
The top one looks younger....so becuase also of your char's lips and general look ..i would go for the second one...looks more adult and strong..just by those few more rinkles..!!

hope i helped.

giantrobot
06-24-2003, 11:34 PM
It is hard to tell with them rendered with so much emty space around them (hard to see side by side) but I am going to say that the second is better (imho). The neck skin under the chin and jaw is more natural and flowing. However, if you wanted a more taut look, I would tweak the 1st one so that the lines there remain straight, but seem more stretched and, well, taut.

I am not that into the wrinkes on the brow...at least, not when the character is in a relaxed pose.

Good one.

Neox
06-25-2003, 12:26 AM
the neck is better in the second one
but the forehaed (witout those wrinkles) is better ion the first one, but i like the headshape in the second one more, so just mix em :D

MarkSnoswell
06-25-2003, 08:19 AM
Nice :) ... only comments at this stage are regarding anatomy.

1. With a jaw bone that massive tha mastoid muscles would be even more prominent.

2. For a chin that protrudes so far I would expect more sag an the skin below the chin.

3. Those large ears woul dhave quite a bit of muscle at their base -- especially above the ear to be ablt to lift it.

4. THe big eybrows could have better ocntinuity into the forhead -- again there would be a reasonable amount of muscle to move them up.

5. You might want to reconsider the creaces that run up the side of the nose continuing into the brow region -- to efectivly animate a frown it's better to start with a more flattened region in the brow -- this will make the character's emotions easier to read when you get to animate it.

6. The upper render indicates the lower lip has a concave curve to it -- it would be more believable with a rounded profile through the lip.

Raul-Reznek
06-25-2003, 08:33 AM
ok
the line on the neck isn't permanenet, it wasn't welded yet
here are some facial espressions i did

Fixed size of the wrincles

http://members.lycos.co.uk/reznek/A10.jpg

damn forgot the wires at home...

BnE
06-25-2003, 10:37 AM
RAUL RUUUUUUUUUUULLLES! i love your guy! so much character! it's just incredible when he smiles! the only thing i would say is that because of the wrinkles(which are magnificient) there is a lack of detail on certain parts of the head... absolutely wonderfull job anyway!

ambient-whisper
06-25-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by BnE
RAUL RUUUUUUUUUUULLLES! i love your guy! so much character! it's just incredible when he smiles! the only thing i would say is that because of the wrinkles(which are magnificient) there is a lack of detail on certain parts of the head... absolutely wonderfull job anyway!

WARNING: PLEASE NO FANBOY PRAISE.

Right now im giving out warnings so people get the idea, but later down the road posts with "YOU RULLLEEE" will be deleted.

its in the rules.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70610

thank you.

BnE
06-25-2003, 06:03 PM
Understood.

Levitateme
06-26-2003, 04:54 AM
i think it looks great overall,

1. i woul put some roundess to the bottom lip. it i think is to flat looking, round it out like in your drawing.

other than that coming along great.

Lordrych
06-26-2003, 12:32 PM
Hey Raul, I like this but i would have to say that most of your character have the same chin you might want to try and change it up a bit. I understand you have a style but if you consistantly have the same chin on every character it shows you have no versatility in your drawing skills. The other thing is the the muscles that go around the adams apple they seem to stick out a little too much like flapp skin, they also attach to the bottom of the chin. I don't know if that is what you were going for or not but it looks weird to me. And when he smilles it seems like it is forced to me seems like he should be showing a little more teeth. Unless you want to change the smile a bit, the kind of smile there is a smirk more than a smile.

Rych

Max4d
06-26-2003, 06:01 PM
Hey Raul

First i must say that this is a very creative model my friend, it's something different of what i am used of you and that is a good thing. But i must say that i don't like the chin, way too large. Also the neck muscles seem to be too thin. His head seemes quite muscular and with such a heavy head and jaw i think his neck muscles should be a lot bigger. The bottom lip seems to be to thin to me, a bigger lip should fit the design better imho. Must say that i dig the ears though.

I must also say that i totally dig this forum area, finally a place where you can find good and harsh critics :D:D:D

Raul.. keep it up buddy

Greetz Max4d

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