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View Full Version : Environment: Amsterdam-style street...


JonM
06-23-2003, 07:44 PM
http://jonmdesign.net/images/3d/amsterdambigold.jpg

I am not completey sure if it is done or not. I posted this in the WIP a few weeks ago, trying this new forum out :p

wire:
http://jonmdesign.net/images/wip/amsterdamwire.jpg


be as harsh as can be :)


3dsmax5 brazil r/s (NO GI)

Hexodam
06-23-2003, 07:59 PM
What I see first odd about it is the color combination, there is alot of gray and alot of red, the rest is very faded. I would recomend either increase the color contrast or make it black and white.

( hope this is a "focused critiques" approved post;) )

ambient-whisper
06-23-2003, 07:59 PM
please edit your post with what software was used. we want to eliminate any questions later down the road asking about what you used :)

very nice image btw. ( boy that was a quick ;)

there isnt too much that is really wrong with the image but the one thing that strikes me right from the get go is the grass. right now it seems extremely stiff. you might want to add some curvature to it.

the cafe ontbijt building, the bay window ontop looks also a bit to squeeky clean. might want to add some real subtle dirt to it. even if its just done in post at 1-5% opacity.

KingMob
06-23-2003, 08:04 PM
Hey figure I'll start out saying what I like...it seems the top half is really nice, I thik you got some great detailing going on, but it looses it the closer to the ground we go.

The cafe sign seems just to clean font wise ...and the dirt is a bit to...cg placed. also witt he bump on some pillars it doesnt feel as natural as it could.

I can see you started with some dirt toward the bottom of the buildings and such, which is really nice, but it kind of feels unnatural once again, and I think this is cause its to dark to high, if that makes sense,

Possibly a bit of dof or contrast to the back of the image would be nice to because the detail seems really lost back there... and the trash on the steret feels like it was just set there..not like garbage really if that makes sense. Good image so far tho, I think with a little more attention to the details you can have a really convincing shot here.

Shade01
06-23-2003, 08:10 PM
Nice image. My crits are that the street and the trash are much brighter and cleaner than the buildings, and that very bright plate and cup keep drawing my attention away from the picture.

ClaudeBernier
06-23-2003, 08:14 PM
This is a marvelous image, but not quite beleivable as of yet. I agree with Hexodam about the constrasts, and i would add that the whole thing is too clean. We don't get the history that this part of a old town went through. I would put some oil stains on the street, along with more dirt, especially along the sidewalk. I would also dirty up the walls, near the ground. And perhaps the ambient light is cranked up too high. Hope this will help, you really have a strong one there.

road
06-23-2003, 08:16 PM
There are a few things I see in the image that may help it out...

First off somemore contrast in the sky would possibly help out the image.. it seems really stark right now.. due to all the white in the image..... Maybe add some different hues into the sky to help that out...

The buildings seem really good.. there are a few things you may try.. one is the blue on the hotel building is extremely saturated.. maybe bring the saturation of the blue down a little..
also on the building to the right of the hotel... the white corner stones that are near the top seems a little too bright... maybe bring the brightness down a touch..

The garbage on the street looks good... one thing that sticks out to me is the whiteness of the curb... I think it would be nice to dirty up that a little more...

Your texturing skills are extremely good...!

One last thing I see is the fisheye of the lens seems a little overboard...
I did a quick PO of your image to show you another possibility of how you can set the lens which I think makes a little more sense for the viewer....

http://www.roadsart.com/images/PO1amsterdam.jpg
http://www.roadsart.com/images/PO2amsterdam.jpg

Please keep in mind these are all suggestions which I see may improve your image... I don't know what you have in mind for the image so take these suggestions as you wish or leave them.. It's up to you...

thanx
road

Khepri
06-23-2003, 08:19 PM
ok, the street, it needs displacement/bump, and it needs more colour variation(think chewing gum, and oily darker tones).


the curb is way to light, needs darker tones as well, the sky is not "amsterdamish"(at least not the glowing effect).

I am missing the X
X
X on the "amsterdammertjes"(the poles)

and for some reason the perspective/scale is not correct. the doors seem to small+narrow, and the poles look to large.



other than the things allready stated: nice work so far

Soulstorm
06-23-2003, 08:33 PM
i was wondering if you made this using a photo as a reference (meaning you copied the things that were on that photo)? cause it would make sense if you did

Lestat
06-23-2003, 08:34 PM
Road touched on the most critical aspect: The perspective distortion as a result of the fisheye lens! It doesn't work for me, sorry. I like the touchup Road did, it doesn't eliminate the slightly crooked feel to the image, but it DOES eliminate the sense of being seasick! ;)

Also, you need some more detail on the street to make it look closer to scale. The garbage seems a bit large IMO. That discarded cup must hold a gallon of coke! Also, do a dirtmap for the road. Roads have smears of rubber from tires driving over almost the same spots again and again, gum because where there are people there is gum, and oil splotches since most cars seem to leak a little. The oil spots would probably be centered on the driving lanes.

Do you have refs for the grass and vegetation? I only have som refs from Denmark, but i've notived that our variants of grass seem to grow up between the cracks in little dense clumps that spread out like a fan. Your types of grass may be different. In any case, they are a bit static.

Keep at it, i think this could be a really good piece. Actually, it IS really good now, but it could become brilliant with some more work! :)

L.

Breinmeester
06-23-2003, 08:40 PM
I really like this image. I agree that the top half looks best and that the curb is too bright. I disagree with the suggestion to put more contrast in the sky. The sky is probaply the best feature of the image as it is typical to Amsterdam. I also think that it is the sky that makes the top half so good. Especially the top half of the hotel is very convincing. What I don't get though are the long hard shadows. They don't seem to fit with the cloudy sky. These cloudy Dutch skies cause very diffuse shadows. I'd try a GI render just to compare. GI is just the thing for these cloudy skies that seem to emit diffuse light from all over. I also think the buildings would then (in a GI rig) cast more shadow onto the street, which is a lot more realistic since you have such an obvious backlit scene. It will colour the street a bit darker, which will take away the 'too bright a street' situation.

Did you model this after a real location?

Indeed, a very impressive render!

flewp
06-23-2003, 08:40 PM
Very nice image.

I would focus on a lot of the things that other people have already pointed out, so I won't go into those. Regarding the grass, somehow it just doesn't look natural. While it looks too stiff, the thing that bothers me with it is the way the grass is grouped. I would expect it to be more than just 2-3 big tall blades of grass. I would more likely expect it to have a lot more blades of various size, angle, bend, etc. Maybe have each blade kind of sticking out as if sprouting from near the middle of the clump of grass. _\|/_ <- something like that, only not that exaggerated.


Also, one thing that really needs work I believe is the inside of the cafe. It just doesn't look real. It almost looks as if you just threw a couple of objects in there to take up space. I am not familiar with Amsterdam at all, but I would expect there to be more paintings and things of the nature inside of a cafe. Maybe a board outside the cafe listing the specials of the day. Maybe even add some people on the inside of the cafe, or someone opening the door to enter the cafe.

Also, not sure how you could fix it, or if it really needs fixing or not, but the curtains on the second floor of the building to the left of the cafe just seem too flat to me. Looks too much like a texture that's been applied to a flat surface.

One thing I would really love to see is to add some motion, some movement to the image. Not anything like cars with motion blur going by or anything, but just some form of activity. There's bikes parked outside, and they make me think there should be at least a few other people out and about. Also, it appears to be the middle of the day, which would again make me expect there to be more people around and about.

Anyway, I hope this post can help out in anyway, you really have a good image going.

Grayscale
06-23-2003, 09:01 PM
Hey. I agree that the street looks too clean. More tire smudges, oil spills, random dirt/mud from the rain being tracked in. The top window of the Cafe Building is too clean as well.

Now, I did notice something else, and hopefully I get the picture to attach correctly. It appears that on the columns of the middle building (The outer structure) have the same exact texture on it, just sized slightly different. I'd suggest doing another seperate texture for the other side, simply because the wear and tear on a building's structure will not "instance" the other side.

Very good picture in my opinion though. I think with some of the suggestions above, that this could turn out to be an extremely well done piece.

G.


EDIT: Alright, so I had to attach the image. "Sorry". It shows a closer look at what I was talking about with the repeating texture. Sorry again.

jeroentje
06-23-2003, 09:08 PM
Very, very nice image :)

Just a few facts from someone who spends halve of his time in Amsterdam:
* Amsterdam is a lot dirtier, your pic is too clean. Specialy the pavement and the lower parts of the buildings (where are the grafity tags?)
* Those "amsterdammertjes" in front of the buildings should be dark red instead of black (the xxx has already been mentioned).
* You need more bikes or other stuff to block the way of passing pedestrians :D

Other things have allready been said. I definitely agree on the "more activity" crit. Amsterdam is a crowdy and busy place.

cheers, Jeroen

ntmonkey
06-23-2003, 09:57 PM
Hey Jon,

Good picture you got here. I think you and everyone else on here realizes that this has a lot potential to go far.

Here's a few things I would pay attention to:

1. Everyone on here has said the street is too clean. That needs to be addressed. The same goes for the window up on top. Think of yellow stains created from rainwater running down the side of the building and collecting at the corner of the panes.

2. Also the cobblestone texture is either stretching or suffering from some sorta weird radial blur, especially towards the left of the image. Might just be the pattern, but something's not quite right about it.

3. Okay, everyone knows that you never drink every last drop out of a soda in a cup. There's always a little bit left. Even if does have a lid on it, the beverage (ala melted ice, whatnot) will leak out and create a stain on the sidewalk. Those paper wax cups give out sooner or later. That would add a lot to the image. My thing is if the objects inadverdently draws the viewer eyes to it, make it tell a story.

All in all, great pic. Just adding a little here and there would make it fantastic. Hope to see you make some changes and post an update soon, Jon.

peace,

Lu

McSpirit
06-23-2003, 10:12 PM
More garbage and the empty soda container should be squished. Also the papers on the ground should be more quelled and torn apart.

The window glass looks a bit like it is shaded glass. (To dark) and defiantly more life on the streets. Just a couple of cars of so would do the trick :)

Lastly the shadow on the window glass on the ďmainĒ building looks the same as the shadow on the wall above. Maybe add some noise or blur.

ivo D
06-23-2003, 10:23 PM
nice but.. yes it need the tripe XX
X
on the poles..

and the sky is to bright on top.. make the sky.. blue with grey clouds..thats kindah dutch.

than at the left of the scene put a car..

i think it really does nee done, caus in amsterdam everywehre are cars.. and this streets missing it a little.

the curbs are to big.. have to be smaller.. so you can make the stones of the sidewalk smaller..and more..caus they are to big.. especialy.. to the right of the image.

and it rains a lot in winters here, we need to see ,a.. how is it called.. that water can go away from the street into the sewer :)

and as last.. the peace of paper at the front left is really looking to flat, i would suggest modelling that one

derekserra
06-23-2003, 10:36 PM
Just one crit, because I've been to Amsterdam. All the houses there have furniture hooks. I found a link on the web that will show you what they are if you are curious.

http://www.moschella.net/travel/G072002/16.html

Nerf

ClaudeBernier
06-23-2003, 11:13 PM
Yeah, looking at the photos from the link above I catched something that was missing from your image... plants! I never been there myself (but almost! argh! Damn money!) but the pictures I saw from the city all had plants and flowers everywhere... Perhaps those of you who lives there can elaborate about this...

JonM
06-24-2003, 12:15 AM
ok, wow guys thanks for all your help :) . This new forum is pretty useful

I am taking ALL of your comments in :)


road: thanks for your time, I am will change the perspective

I will work on the road and sidewalks, fix the repeating texture, and fool around with the sky.

I used references for each building and put all them all together. About the amsterdammertjes , the references I used had black ones, but Iíll see what I can do with those, plus ill make them thinner.

I'll see if I could add some more plants and Iíll work on the garbage.


thanks again :)

Trolldeg
06-24-2003, 11:10 AM
There should be a wall of a house, or a cityscape in the background, in the left hand side of the image. now it looks like the street ends with that building.

Soulstorm
06-24-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Trolldeg
There should be a wall of a house, or a cityscape in the background, in the left hand side of the image. now it looks like the street ends with that building.

you're right about that, but i kinda disagree withe the cityscape in the bg thing. you see, amsterdam doesnt really have that much tall buildings/skyscrapers, so it wouldnt really fit this pic at all.

ivo D
06-24-2003, 12:57 PM
yep..that right not much tall buildings.. but if you tweaked everything and it lookcs convincing but it still misses something..than maybe a church in the corner background would do .. wiith some flags of amsterdam and the netherlands on them ;).. and some birs on it and flying around..

caus ther are lots of them in amsterdam

dirty city.. lots of food everywhere.....

JonM
06-25-2003, 03:01 AM
cool, good idea idea i'll see what I can do about the back. thanks guys


if anyone is interested:

this is the mat for the sidewalk: http://jonmdesign.net/images/wip/tex01.jpg

and this is what I did to the street:

http://jonmdesign.net/images/wip/tex02.jpg

MarkSnoswell
06-25-2003, 07:50 AM
IN no particular order:

1. Camera optics. If you are going to look up at a steep angle like this consider uesing view canera optica rather than SLR optincs .. I missed what sofware you are using -- is you were in 3ds max and you want vew camera optics then you have to apply a skew modifier to the camera so that its projection plane is parallel to the face of the house fromnt -- this will elimenate the vertical vanishing point and emulate what a professional photographer may have done with a shot like this.

2. Camera effects -- depth of field -- knoch the extreem foreground out of focus.

everyone else has covered the other stuff so I will finish with one final comment/qeestion ...
...Why? ... OK this is a technicall excellent image and with the feedback on theis thread you should be able to tune it to be a truly excellent technical render... but why would you have photographed this image if it was real? What is the appeal? As it is it's a great visualization but it could be so much more.
Just some suggestions here -- you could try putting an interesting character (person, dog whatever) in the scene or you could set it on a dark and stormy day with a warm interior light in the Cafe ... just suggestions to play with.

ivo D
06-25-2003, 04:52 PM
yea.. good point..

me as a viewer.. with all the respect only thought " eej great 3d piece"

but someone who doesnt know 3d wont find this so interesting.

caus it is not a thing you would fotograph or anything.

a suggestion, maybe get some postcards from amsterdam.. to get some mood idears.

amsterdam.. is a reall football orientatet city.. maybe street after a football supporter fight.. a guy blown away by a water canon?.

someone held down by the police.

or some guy running ,who stole a womans purce ? :D

JonM
06-25-2003, 04:58 PM
thanks for your comments :) I should have a new rendering soon.

BiTMAP
06-26-2003, 06:30 AM
okay somthing I just realised now from looking at bad fotos i took, this would be considerd a bad foto, becuase the sky is so bright you would have the city ending up a bit (okay in the case of your light materials, ALOT) darker. If you darken teh bottom half of your foto a bunch and add a bit warmer colour to the light, as well as some dirt in the edge of the street/curb and what everone else has said your render will look amazing!

JonM
06-27-2003, 05:09 PM
http://www.jonmdesign.net/images/3d/amsterdambig.jpg


I think it could use some plants... and the poles are still black because it did not look too good red :p

anyways, what do you guys think now?

JonM
06-29-2003, 02:33 PM
anyone have anything new to say? :)

Marcel
06-29-2003, 08:51 PM
I don't live in Amsterdam, but it is very recognizable. Very nice rendering!

I'd like to make afew comments:

The camera is maybe a bit too high, it's almost aligned with the first floor of the buildings. If you set it to eyeheight of a normal person (+-1,75 meters) the scale will be much better. Right now everything looks a bit small to me.

Those poles in the sidewalk are a bit too big, and look a bit stretched (the top almost a exact hemisphere in real life). They are also more glossy, but that's not important.

The sunlight comes from a very high angle, which is not very realistic for a 'Dutch' scene (if the sun is shining at all :) ).

The beer-signs could use a reflection, they are a bit dark right now.

I've done a lot of architectural stuff, building a very simple interior ( basically a box behind the windows, maybe a plane with a photo inside) can add a lot to the look of the glass.

Great stuff! :)

jeroentje
06-30-2003, 05:28 PM
Here's something you can use as a ref for the poles.
http://www.zenzero.com/ams/amsMertjeMaroonBike.jpg

And the car in the back is just as high as a bike. So I think it's too small.

HapZungLam
07-01-2003, 06:43 PM
ton the light just a tiny bit more of the yellow tone to make the whole scene warmer.

Soulstorm
07-01-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by HapZungLam
ton the light just a tiny bit more of the yellow tone to make the whole scene warmer.

the climate here really isnt all that tropical

Edouard
07-07-2003, 01:27 PM
The new image is much better...but it needs more bikes, in amsterdam they are everywhere and atached with different things, as city lights, amsterdammertjes, etc.

And the city still need some more dirth, maybe some garbage bags...

greetings
Edouard

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