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View Full Version : Switching to Windows XP 64bit. Need Advice


aeterna789
01-01-2009, 05:46 PM
Hi guys, I'm currently working on a 3D Model of the KMS Bismarck (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=43&t=712143). I'm aiming for a well detailed work but my Rig is at its limit (Specs at bottom of Post).

My model was going great but as I progressed the system begun slowing down until it reached the point where it begun crashing.

I can afford to invest on a Windows 64bit but I have a couple of questions.

1. Do I need to get a new Maya 2008 64bit Version? (If there is any, but I wont be able to afford it.)

2. Since the RAM Capacity for a 64bit OS is greater than the 32bit version, will this solve the Crashes and "System may have become unstable" problems?

3. I'm planning on installing the 64bit on my 160GB which I will devote to modeling and rendering. I'm planning on keeping my 500GB with the 32bit OS so I can still play or work on my 32bit programs. Will this cause any problem?

[Specs]

Computer Type: ACPI Multiprocessor PC

Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional (SP3)

DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)

CPU Type: QuadCore Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600, 2400 MHz (9 x 267)

Motherboard Name: MSI P6N SLI V2 (MS-7346)

Motherboard Chipset: nVIDIA nForce 650i SLI

System Memory: 2048 MB (DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)

Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT (512 MB)

Hard Drive: 500GB & 160GB Seagate

dmeyer
01-01-2009, 06:06 PM
Are you sure what is causing the crash?

Open your task manager and see how much RAM Maya is using.

Are you hitting the memory wall? Going to a 64bit OS will help if this is the case. If not, and something else is causing the problem, 64bit OS won't help.

If it is a memory issue, you'll need to buy more RAM in addition to the XP64bit license. You do not need to buy anything additional from Autodesk but you will have to download the 64bit installer from the subscription site. Your 32 bit license is the same.

aeterna789
01-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Well last time I checked Maya was going 800k and going (is that bad?). Sorry but I'm not really into Maya's technical side and so I don't have a clue what Maya's memory limitations are. Every time Maya crashes it shows a message saying "Cannot Allocate *****(numbers) bytes" so I'm thinking its RAM.

Purchasing new RAM won't be a problem for me, its gotten cheaper these days.

*Whew* I was afraid that I needed to buy another copy of Maya 2008. So just to make it clear, my 32bit license will work on the 64bit?

dmeyer
01-01-2009, 06:24 PM
Well last time I checked Maya was going 800k and going (is that bad?). Sorry but I'm not really into Maya's technical side and so I don't have a clue what Maya's memory limitations are.

Maya tends to lock up on XP32 around 1.5-1.6GB if i recall. Open your scene, then open your windows task manager, and see how much memory it is allocating.

dmeyer
01-01-2009, 06:25 PM
*Whew* I was afraid that I needed to buy another copy of Maya 2008. So just to make it clear, my 32bit license will work on the 64bit?

The license is the same. You just have to d/l and install the 64 bit media. Or get it from your local reseller.

aeterna789
01-01-2009, 06:47 PM
Maya takes up 530k of Memory, and I just recently opened the file. It takes a lot more once I render on Mental Ray not to mention my other programs that are running (anti-virus, etc.).

My 2 GB of RAM won't hold this kind of stress and unfortunately, my 32bit OS won't hold any more RAM.

dmeyer
01-01-2009, 06:57 PM
Maya takes up 530k of Memory, and I just recently opened the file.

That is not possible. Even opening Maya with a fresh scene takes something like 200+ MB.

imashination
01-01-2009, 08:29 PM
He means 500,000 kbytes,

Try this:
http://forum.3dfluff.com/showthread.php?t=134

aeterna789
01-02-2009, 12:45 AM
Oh sorry for that misunderstanding, I meant 500MB of RAM. I just opened my scene and now its taking up 700MB.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/aeterna789/Photoshop/screenshot.jpg

I like the 3GB hack but I don't think that can help me. 3GB is still rather small for me and the RAM that I'm purchasing are Twins so I'll have a total of 6GB which would be much kinder in terms of Rendering my work on Mental Ray with PSAS and Final Gathering.

dmeyer
01-02-2009, 01:48 AM
That is still unusual for Maya to crash while using 700MB...

aeterna789
01-02-2009, 02:29 AM
Well I only have 2GB of RAM and Maya is not the only program Running. For me 700MB is already a system hog and my Maya only crashes once I try to Render my scene.

olson
01-02-2009, 06:01 AM
Make sure to look at the virtual memory usage of the system in total and not just the physical memory used by Maya. If the system runs out of virtual memory or if the application reaches its limit in virtual memory it will have problems as well. Whether or not the memory and 32-bit platform are the problem, I would highly recommend a 64-bit setup for anyone creating any type of digital content. Not sure what else you need the system for but 64-bit Linux or 64-bit Vista Business are both great as well. The only reason I would ever use 64-bit XP at this point is if I already had a copy lying around, but not really worth buying at this point since its an EOL product and was never mainstream in the first place. Cheers!

aeterna789
01-02-2009, 06:03 AM
Yeah that does make sense, I'll consider expanding my budget to buy a 64bit Vista.

aeterna789
01-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Ok, thanks for all the advices, I think I'll install a 64bit Windows Vista on my 160GB HDD as a second OS aside from my normal 32bit Windows XP.

One last question. What is the average RAM does/should a 3D Production (Modeling, Animation, etc.) Artist use?

aglick
01-02-2009, 04:43 PM
Vista64 is by far the best choice for newer systems, but if your system is older (more than 18 months) you may have issues with Vista (or Vista64). In this case you might want to go with XP64 for compatibility/reliability sake.

Magnus3D
01-02-2009, 05:00 PM
Now i'm curious.. why would Vista64 be a better choice for newer machines ?! i fail to see the logic in that unless Vista suddenly got good and useful. But then again, pigs still don't fly :D ..or do they ?

/ Magnus

olson
01-02-2009, 05:19 PM
Ok, thanks for all the advices, I think I'll install a 64bit Windows Vista on my 160GB HDD as a second OS aside from my normal 32bit Windows XP.

One last question. What is the average RAM does/should a 3D Production (Modeling, Animation, etc.) Artist use?

I would say 4-16GB with 8GB being the sweet spot right now. It all depends on what you're doing and how much of it you're doing though. Cheers!

olson
01-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Now i'm curious.. why would Vista64 be a better choice for newer machines ?! i fail to see the logic in that unless Vista suddenly got good and useful. But then again, pigs still don't fly :D ..or do they ?

/ Magnus

There's nothing wrong with Vista. Users relentlessly complain about it but when asked have never actually used Vista. A huge amount of bad press came from the release when reviewers were testing Vista on single core systems with 2GB of memory, what were they expecting? With modern hardware and plenty of memory Vista is the best Windows operating system to date. I've been using Vista for over a year now with no complaints about it. However my primary operating system for production work is still Linux but that has nothing to do with Vista because I've been using Linux prior to Vista. Cheers!

aglick
01-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Now i'm curious.. why would Vista64 be a better choice for newer machines ?! i fail to see the logic in that unless Vista suddenly got good and useful. But then again, pigs still don't fly :D ..or do they ?

/ Magnus

Right - what Luke said...

Vista is the best Windows OS to date -and there is ZERO reason to believe that a new computer running Vista would not be perfectly stable and acceptable for professional or personal use.

I make my living by providing accurate and unbiased technical direction to companies and individuals. I would not put my reputation at risk by making bad recommendations.

;)

imashination
01-03-2009, 12:04 AM
Turn off the astronomically irritating UAC and it suddenly becomes a lot better, setting it back to the win2k theme helps too ;-)

Saurus
01-03-2009, 04:23 AM
Turn off the astronomically irritating UAC and it suddenly becomes a lot better, setting it back to the win2k theme helps too ;-)

or leave it on and not have to install an antivirus software...saves me extra computing resource. 3 machines (2 years) and not one virus. Of course you have to be vigilant with web surfing and Vista update.

olson
01-04-2009, 07:16 AM
UAC is similar to SELinux in the idea that the system is secured by a set of policies put in place to protect the user and data beyond what just an antivirus can do. Rather than detecting problems after they occur it literally prevents any access to the system that is not explicitly authorized by the user. UAC and SELinux are brilliant innovations and have vastly improved security of computers.

Often users complain about constantly being bothered by UAC but its usually because file permissions and ownerships are not setup correctly which will cause UAC to confirm tasks like renaming files. For those not familiar with SELinux, it was an initiative started by the NSA over a decade ago to secure government computer systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selinux

It took Microsoft at least 5 years to catch up to the idea of proactive security measures even after SELinux was released open source. Now its being flamed by consumers because its annoying and not fully understood. Seat belts are "annoying" but I think the advantage far outweighs the inconvenience and time has shown that. Long story short its my opinion that everyone should enable and leave UAC or SELinux enabled for their own benefit and everyone around them. Cheers!

aeterna789
01-04-2009, 07:20 AM
Thanks for the Advices guys, this really helped me a lot.

imashination
01-04-2009, 02:02 PM
Hang on, you cant blame badly setup permissions by users, my experience with vista 64 has shown me its just a horrible, terrible idea even on a freshly installed system where nothing has had a chance to go wrong.

On a clean, fresh install, the first time you run any program, the screen blanks down and leaves you with nothing but a box in the middle asking if you want to run the program. When im downloading and installing programs to set up my system, I went through this blanked out "allow or deny?" process probably 200 times before it pissed me off to the point where I started looking how to turn it off.

Its pointless, from a psychological point of view have you considered what happens? Windows already has a bit of an issue with popping up "are you sure?" type boxes, so much that most people have learnt when a box pops up, you instinctively press yes just to get it out of the way. UAC is just more of the same.

Go watch your mother, sister, dad using windows or browsing web pages, every time anything pops up, they go to click on yes without even considering what its for, *that* is largely what makes windows insecure. You should only be asked important questions when theyre really needed, so people pay attention to them.

Car analogy time. If I see a light on my dashboard, I immediately pay attention and look what the problem is. What if my dashboard were windows vista? It would have a flashing light for when the screen is a bit dirty, a warning sign for when my brakelight is on its last 1000 hours of life, 5 glowing lights to show me the doors are closed and a warning light each time i only have 1 hand on the steering wheel.

The result? Theres so many warning lights, I just hit autopilot and learn to ignore them because theyre all things I already bloody know, Its my car, I know how dirty the window is, that the doors are closed and how many hands I have on the wheel.

In vista, I know im running a program I just downloaded, *I* downloaded it!, I dont care if my application isnt registered and authenticated my MS.

ErikSvensson
01-04-2009, 04:28 PM
I just bought windows Xp pro 64-bit and I love it. I bought it with an memory upgrade of 2 x 2 gb kit (ordered another 4gb that will arrive tomorrow) and I haven't run into any issues so far driver-wise, program-wise or gaming-wise. The games runs even smoother on this system than my 32-bit one and I doubt the game uses more than my previous amount of 2gb RAM. :)

On the other hand I use somewhat similar PC at work with vista-64 bit and it's way slower than this. Might be something with the applications there or just something else but I would stick to Xp 64-bit instead of Vista 64-bit.

This is just my first impressions though, but I'm happy. :)

Erik

tuna
01-04-2009, 05:36 PM
Hang on, you cant blame badly setup permissions by users, my experience with vista 64 has shown me its just a horrible, terrible idea even on a freshly installed system where nothing has had a chance to go wrong.

Actually you can in part blame badly setup permissions and out of date software. UAC's 'file and registry' virtualization will work to keep user files within the user's account, instead of having the settings and such all crammed into the drive root or program files, which has obvious limitations and problems.



On a clean, fresh install, the first time you run any program, the screen blanks down and leaves you with nothing but a box in the middle asking if you want to run the program. When im downloading and installing programs to set up my system, I went through this blanked out "allow or deny?" process probably 200 times before it pissed me off to the point where I started looking how to turn it off.

Obviously installing and accessing administrative tools on the OS will require higher elevated privileges than you'd see in normal use, but unless you make a habit of installing very out of date software then it really isn't that much of a hindrance, at least not for me. You can also log into the Administrator account and install everything from there. Simply running the software for the first time should not prompt a UAC screen. If that happens for every piece of software you've installed then I feel sorry for you, but something's obviously wrong.


Its pointless, from a psychological point of view have you considered what happens? Windows already has a bit of an issue with popping up "are you sure?" type boxes, so much that most people have learnt when a box pops up, you instinctively press yes just to get it out of the way. UAC is just more of the same.

This problem is directly linked with the poor design of software and where it installs to. You don't need to go through UAC in order to change user files on a day to day basis, but if the software you've installed has managed to put everything into some non-standard area (like the drive root) and you're too lazy to change permissions yourself, then I don't know what to say, you're doing it wrong and turning off UAC is probably best. However if you do use it right, you really won't be hindered anywhere near as much as some people say (except during initial setup), and you get a nice bit of extra security for it.



In vista, I know im running a program I just downloaded, *I* downloaded it!, I dont care if my application isnt registered and authenticated my MS.

Until you get some piece of shit malware or virus trying to install itself via some sort of bug.

[edit] Whoops, sorry for the long post about Vista in an XP thread.

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