Vehicle: Starship

[Vektor]

Hmm... well, I suppose there's something to be said for silent admiration. ;)

Starting to detail the outriggers and shuttle bays.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_025.jpg

All for today.

[Teyon]

Looks like a good start to me but I suck at vehicles, so take that for what it is. I would say add some more details and the people will show. Afterall, the front page has two links to trek related imagery right now.

[Teyon]

And one more thing...don't worry about these guys and gals, you're making your model for you first and foremost. If nobody else likes it, who cares?

[Vektor]

Details, eh? Well, here are a couple more from earlier in the process that are worth showing:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_013.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_020.jpg

Naturally, there are many more details to come. I conceived this ship as being something of a prototype and a testbed for new technology, so a lot of it is going to be left exposed.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Teyon
And one more thing...don't worry about these guys and gals, you're making your model for you first and foremost. If nobody else likes it, who cares?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining. People respond when they have something to say and lack of response doesn't mean they don't like what they see. Trek is no longer the hip thing it once was, but it's still possible to create some pretty cool--and even somewhat original--stuff in the Trek universe.

I actually designed this particular ship almost ten years ago and have taken a couple of cracks at modeling it in 3D, but this is the first time my concept has been detailed enough and my 3D skills good enough to do it justice. Just thought I'd share it and see what the truly talented people around here have to say. As long as they don't say, "It sucks, go back to pencil and paper and never bother us again," I will take that as a good sign. ;)

[Vektor]

Okay, I've got a big decision to make that will drastically influence most of the remaining work on this model. I've been mulling it over for a couple of days and I finally decided to throw it open for some outside creative input.

On the original NCC-147 model, The warp core, fusion reactor and impulse engines were all located in the U-shaped recess between the outriggers. With this new version, I'm tempted to relocate the impulse engines to the back ends of the outriggers a la the NX-01. There is some logic in that arrangement, such as consolidating almost all of the engineering hardware in the outriggers and a degree of bilateral redundancy. Still, I liked the look of those impulse venturies centrally located at the back of the primary hull...

Here's a 5-view I made of the original model showing the central impulse engine placement:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/old_ncc-147_5view.jpg

Anyone have an opinion?

[Vektor]

Here's my first pass at the warp core assembly:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_026.jpg

I'm using my own concept of how a matter/antimatter reactor would be put together. Here you see the Antimatter Containment Torus, basically a magnetic bottle. The stud-like object in the center is the Antimatter Injector, with its counterpart Matter Injector and part of Lower Linear Accellerator barely visible underneath. Not visible in this shot is the Intermix Chamber, which is just behind the edge of the ACT.

Yet to be added are the Electroplasma Energy Taps on the Intermix Chamber, the EPS Conduits leading to the nacelles, the Deuterium Slush Tanks at the bottom of the assembly, and the superstructure for anchoring and supporting the whole thing. I'm also thinking of adding a bridge-like engineering deck that would surround and enclose the Intermix chamber. And just in case it isn't yet obvious, I've decided to move the impulse engines to the aft ends of the outriggers.

In the event of a containment failure, the ACT may be jettisoned along with the upper injector. The four squarish objects on top of the ACT are Magnetic Field Sustainers, essentially huge batteries that can be used to temporarily maintain antimatter containment in an emergency, or prevent the ACT from detonating until it's far enough way to avoid damaging the ship. I never actually jettison the core because it's just a reaction chamber and ought to be completely harmless once the reactant flows are cut off.

Again, this is just a first pass. There's quite a bit left to add and at least some of it is likely to change as I go along.

[Orbitronio]

Stunning detail, keep it up :applause:

[Vektor]

Or how about a less chunky, more TOS-ish version?

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_027.jpg

[RekAge]

if you want i could send you some scans from one of the Star trek books. It has detail drawing of the enterprise d, including the warp core and anything else. Just email if your interested.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by RekAge
if you want i could send you some scans from one of the Star trek books. It has detail drawing of the enterprise d, including the warp core and anything else. Just email if your interested.

Thanks, but I probably already have the same book. I'm not really all that interested in copying what has been done before, or even being overly influenced by it. I want this to be recognizably Trek but otherwise as original as possible.

[number5]

Originally posted by Vektor
Or how about a less chunky, more TOS-ish version?


I think this one -> with a little bit red for the core is better.
:rolleyes:

[jampoz]

Man, you know what? :o)
I like it, ehehehe, don't be surprised at all
The best thing is that your ship doesn't have that boring look that all ST ships got, your is different, but the same at the same time, weird...

Go on like that, and yeah it does look like a plastic model, but who cares about that, it's a WIP
You plan to make a movie with some battle juice or just render it?

I get it's your first experiment, but we got you CAN model, now let's see if you can texture it, and once you texture it, let's see if you can move it in a space environment... and then let's see if you can make it shoot... and let's see if you can make another ship and make a battle! :o)

Hey... it's the BEST way to learn :o)

Good work, go on, you're on the right path, just walk straight ahead!

[Vektor]

Okay, here's a little update. I added some detail to the nacelle struts and applied some preliminary texturing to the whole ship. I also decided to try making these renderings a little more artistic looking.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_028.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_029.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_030.jpg

Those of you who remember my last attempt to build this ship will probably recognize my UESPA logo. If you're looking closely, you'll probably also notice I've made the glow of the bridge dome and lower sensor dome a little more authentic.

I hope to detail out quite a bit of the warp core assembly later this week.

[Vektor]

One more:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_031.jpg

[jampoz]

Yes, definitely need texture details, something like panels and stuff like that
ST starships are somewhat simple and realistic looking, just like a TRUE space shuttle is, so don't exaggerate with panels thru textures, just add what's needed

I believe it would be really easy to exaggerate here, and personally i think i couldn't stop myself from exaggerating
But i believe you will do good ;o)


PS: Sorry for the "exaggerating" word repeated too many times but i learnt it these days and love it :oP

[Vektor]

Made a little more progress this evening.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_032.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_033.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_034.jpg

As you can see, I decided to back off on the film grain and blur a little bit.

The big addition for this set of WIPs is definitely the gridlines. Yes, they are modeled. I've been working on a technique for etching the gridlines into the hull rather than extruding the hull plates outward. It was necessary in this case since there are already some paneling details on the hull that would have suffered greatly from the traditional method. The etching method is workable but it is not for the faint of heart.

I've also done quite a bit of additional texturing work here and there. The overall hull texture is still preliminary but it fits well enough to look pretty good even at this early stage.

All for tonight.

[Vektor]

Well, I had big plans for filling in a bunch of details last night but I ran into some design problems and didn't get very far. I did manage to add some running lights and tweak the sensor dome material a little bit, though the latter is still not looking exactly like I want it to. I also did some work on that arm on top of the reactor assembly.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_035.jpg

In this next rendering you can see where I started laying out the plasma conduits from the warp reactor to the nacelles. This started innocently enough but quickly revealed a serious design flaw that took me the rest of the evening to fix.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_036.jpg

What I discovered was that the nacelle struts didn't line up vertically with the reactor assembly. The plasma conduits would have run straight into the antimatter containment torus instead of the actual warp core lower down. I really didn't want to change the angle of the struts or the position of the nacelles just to accommodate the lousy plasma conduit, so I started playing around with a bunch of different ideas. I tried making the struts thicker. I tried putting a shroud of sorts over the exposed part of the conduit on the underside of the strut. I even tried using a double strut like some bizarre, 22nd century bi-plane. Eventually, I settled on something much simpler...

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_037.jpg

As you can see, all I did was put a taper on the struts so they are wider where they connect with the ouriggers. This gives the bottom surfaces of the struts enough of an angle to enclose the conduits and it's barely noticeable from most angles.

I've also been doing some thinking about this whole exposed warp core thing. I like the idea of being able to see the guts of the ship's engine like the carbeurator and blower on a classic muscle car, but I have to admit it's awfully hard to justify from a practical standpoint. I do have an idea about how to have my cake and eat it, too, but it's gonna take me a few more days to work the kinks out.

[Klaymen]

Nice work... Windows??

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Klaymen
Nice work... Windows??

They're coming. I wanna get the structural details worked out first.

[Matthew Moran]

sweet model dude:buttrock:

[BiTMAP]

now I want to model a ship! lol, dangit thing is i know i would stop modeling too soon and loose heart bla bla bla... but my bro who's 11 and a pretty smart lil gaffer (semi trekki, no suits or nofin, thinks thats stupid ;) ) MAY be able to make me a design... hrm... lol


anyway I'm loving ur ship, even the fat lip on the front crew section is diffrent and nice :D

[Vektor]

Well, folks, I'm afraid I have some very disappointing news to report. Due to some severe problems with the new hard drive I recently installed, the NCC-147 is toast. All the files pertaining to it are simply gone. And as if that wasn't bad enough, everything else on my Max projects drive went with it, including my TOS Enterprise, the Captain Kirk character model and just about every other 3D project I've worked on in the last two years.

After narrowly resisting the urge to go buy a gun and shoot myself, I did some digging on my other computer and some old ZIP disks and found a copy of the Enterprise file from seven or eight months ago, back when the primary hull was in its early stages and the nacelles hadn't even been started yet. Not a total loss but really damn close.

Why, oh why didn't I have backups, you ask? That's a really good question. I have never before experienced a hard drive failure and I suppose I had grown complacent about data integrity. I did give some thought to burning CD copies of all of this stuff recently, but I decided to wait until after this whole reinstall process was finished and everything was reorganized. That, apparently, was my first, last and worst mistake.

Now, if you'll all excuse me for a day or two, I think I'd like to be alone. :(

[BiTMAP]

I know the feeling, I've had to redo several Game levels becuase of the same reason, I've learned though (after several times) that when you redo something, it turns out much better, and you quckly get back to where you where and then often blow past it.

[jampoz]

Bitmap is right

If you work again on it you'll be damn fast, 'cause you learnt all the things already, and you'll make it way better than before (if that's possible)

Man i'm sorry about your loss, all the test renderings, all is gone, damn it

I got a 100mb Zip drive also, it's hard to remember to make backups but it's truly needed

Technology is not trustable like it was years ago, when you could unplug an HD and take it to your friend and plug it without problem and exchange stuff, no way, now you'll probably provoke a blackout plugging the HD and will burn the whole motherboard or stuff like that
Technology now sucks 'cause it's meant to be for everybody, and they need it to break once in awhile just like all other furniture do

Was too good when computers were just an Elite thing that few could use
It was trustable back then... :o(


Man, stand up and fight, don't lose this battle, we're with you and I'm personally here to help if you need any suggestion on how to make it better than before

Do NOT let those thing turn you down, just get used 'cause computers will only break down more in future

PS: I've got friends who lose Zip disks also, my suggestion is a 2weeks backup all the times on both Zip and CDs, that's what I do

[Vektor]

First, I wanna thank everybody for their sympathies and kind words. I'm trying to keep things in perspective; it's not as though a loved one died or anything, but when you pour your heart and soul into stuff like this only to see it all vanish into digital hell, it can pretty much ruin your day. Thanks for understanding, it helps.

Second, for those who have me pegged as a total moron for not backing any of this stuff up, I feel the need to explain that I normally do backup most of the important data on my main computer to the secondary machine. I'm not nearly as diligent about it as I should be but I usually get around to it ever two or three months. The only reason I didn't have that to fall back on this time was because I was in the middle of shifting the files back and forth as I progressively reinstalled both machines. If this had happened one day sooner or one day later, I would have had no problems. I know, I still should have CD or ZIP backups and not rely totally on another hard drive. I see now how foolish it was not to take those extra precautions sooner. Live and learn the hard way, I guess.

Third, just to clarify what actually happened, I was in the process of trying to diagnose a resource conflict and had swapped some peripheral cards, including the IDE controller card, a couple of times to avoid duplicating an IRQ. After 3 or 4 swaps I wasn't having any luck so I put things back the way they were to begin with, at which point I noticed the problem I had been having, namely the quality of my onboard audio, appeared to be fixed. I popped in a CD I like to listen to while modeling, fired up Max and quickly discovered that not everything was back to normal.

Max couldn't find my projects drive (partition actually). I went looking for it manually and discovered it wasn't there anymore. In fact, the new drive seemed to have forgotten that about a quarter of itself ever existed, including two whole partitions of around 15 or 20GB each. I was beginning to panick at that point.

The drive is a Western Digital and a friend of mine with the same type of drive once had something similar happen to him. The drive electronics got scrambled by a static discharge and started behaving as though the drive was only half the size it was supposed to be. He looked into a data recovery service but apparently whatever was wrong with it was going to be too expensive to fix. I had moved the drive itself at least once while swapping peripheral cards and I couldn't help thinking I might have zapped it without realizing it.

I tried a variety of things last night to try to bring back those partitions but the drive stubbornly insisted they just didn't exist. Couldn't exist, in fact, because the drive was no longer large enough to contain them. That's when I started thinking dark thoughts about high caliber projectiles. I made my dramatic little post online soon after, though I'm not sure why. I guess I just needed to know somebody out there was feeling my pain. Finally, I went to bed.

Now, here's where things started to get a little more interesting and, dare I say, more optimistic.

I got up this morning, went through my preparation for the work day pretty much like a zombie, and drove to work trying to think about my hiking trip this weekend instead of toasted hard drives. Something kept nagging at me, though. I have this little voice that starts talking to me at times like these, telling me I had missed something important. Whatever it is, it keeps working on these sorts of problems even when I'm trying to forget about them, and more often than not it will come up with something at the oddest of times.

So, at about half past eight this morning, I was just finishing a nutritious breakfast consisting of two hamburgers and a diet Coke and preparing to update a product selection guide for one of our design projects when that little voice in the back of my head suddenly piped up with a tentative but hopeful possibility...

Some of the more technically savvy among you may already suspect what it had to say, if you were paying attention to my explanation of how all of this happened. Recall that I mentioned an IDE controller card. That card exists because the new drive is a 180GB Ultra ATA drive and the IDE controller on my motherboard does not support Ultra ATA.

What's so special about Ultra ATA, you ask? That may just be the million dollar question. You see, among other things, Ultra ATA allows hard drives to exceed the normal ATA size limit, which is somewhere around 130GB if I recall correctly. A separate controller card, shipped with the drive, is required to access the full 180GB, along with a special driver that has to be installed with the operating system.

Now, I really don't know why this would have happened, especially in the peculiar way that it did, but it occurs to me that the driver for that Ultra ATA controller card may have somehow lost track of the card when I switched slots. If that's the case then I might be able to just reinstall the driver and get back those 30 or 40GB. I emphasize the word "might." That's assuming I'm right about this in the first place, and further assuming that the data in that extra space is still intact. I can think of at least a couple of reasons why it might not be.

I can also think of one pretty good reason why it might. All that juggling of peripheral cards never did make a difference in my IRQ confiuration or my sound quality until I put things back they were originally. Then, suddenly, the sound started working perfectly. Now, the resource assignments hadn't changed so something else must have. The only other explanation I had for the sound problems was a driver conflict. If that conflict happened to be with the Ultra ATA driver then that would explain a lot. I never had sound problems until the new drive was installed and the sound problems went away when the drive stopped working right.

AAAAANNNNNDDDDD... the amount of space I'm missing on the drive is almost exactly the amount added by the Ultra ATA controller and its driver. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think the laws of probability would be too happy about it.

So now I'm sitting here, unable to get any useful work done because I'm too busy watching the clock. One hour and forty-seven minutes to go before I can get out of here, run home and find out if that little voice of mine is really a friggin' genius or just a sadistic bastard who likes to torture me with false hopes.

Keep your fingers crossed everybody, and hide the ammo just in case. ;)

[Vektor]

[begin wurlitzer gospel music]

HALELUJAH! PRAISE THE LORD!

I have BEEN through the darkness and I have SEEN the light! REJOICE with me brothers and sisters! The Holy Hard Drive has RISEN from the tomb! What was once lost has now been FOUND! The Lord has been merciful and I have SEEN the error of my ways. BACKUP and sin no more!

Can I hear an AMEN!?

[/end wurlitzer gospel music]

Exactly as I suspected, the Ultra ATA driver had wandered off into Never Never Land after it lost track of the controller card. I reinstalled the little sucker and VOILLA! Everything's back. The NCC-147, the Enterprise, Kirk, my kitchen remodel, everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink!

You wanna talk about a new day dawning!

*Launches into a celebration dance that makes Daffy Duck look like Mr. McGoo*

Okay, I'm alright now. No, no, you can take away the medication; I won't be needing it anymore. :D

Now, if you'll escuse me, I need to run a full backup to my secondary computer before I have to head out on this hiking trip. My CD burner is non-functional at present but you can bet your ass it will be by Monday at the latest. Thank Heaven I can now go climb a mountain without the desire to jump off the top when I get there.

Oh, and for those of you who thought I was just being facetious with the Praise the Lord routine, I wasn't. ;)

[Vektor]

By the way, now that the driver is reinstalled and my missing partitions are back, my motherboard audio has crapped out again and Max has decided that It needs to be reauthorized one more time. I guess I needed something to keep me humble. :D

[BiTMAP]

Hehehe Ouch, the lesson is, DO NOT USE ATA!!! jk, but maybe u need a new soundcard. Also yeah we used max at school the reauth is hell. Anyways Glad things are workin out :D

[Vektor]

Okay, just to prove the NCC-147 really hasn't vanished into digital hell, here's one more rendering to tide you all over until Monday:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_038.jpg

NOTE: The left and right nacelle struts are different on purpose. This is something I was planning to show you all when my hard drive problems occurred. The lft strut is the one I've been using all along and the right strut has been widened considerably. I also moved the nacelles a little further out and forward just a tad. I'm having a hard time deciding which version I like better so I thought I'd throw it open for suggestions.

I made a few other minor changes and additions as well. I shrank the bridge module slightly for reasons that are kind of hard to explain at the momemt but will become apparent eventually. The turbolift object isn't really working for me and I will probably do something totally different with it soon. I also added a base under the starboard running light just to see what it would look like. Not sure if I'm gonna keep that. Finally, I etched in a couple more gridlines here and there.

Have a great weekend everybody. I know I will. :D

[jampoz]

Man I never meant to tell you or make you feel like a moron

Truly, I know how it feels, you make backups all the times and all of a sudden the day you forget to do it 'cause you're into something important... pufff... everything goes to hell

I discovered with horrow, when started working on some tests in Max that I didn't do any backup for like 5 months, i KNEW my PC would crash the moment I'd turn it on to make the backup
Murphy law, that's the way it works

You're no moron, and I respect you for the wonderful work you accomplished here, and i'ma follow you and try to help you dev it

;o)

PS: Man, you won, the HD got the shit scared off and gave you back your stuff, whoa, too bad the S-card had to sacrifice itself, but to stop listening to MP3 for awhile is a fair price, i think! :o)

[webfox]

Congratulations on getting everything back!

I read your story and felt badly for you, but didn't feel I could say anything that would make you feel better, even on a philosophical level, so I didn't post.

I am very glad you got everything back and are backing it all up now.

Don't forget to make 2 CDs of everything you treasure and put one set in a place that can't be damaged by fire, children, pets, or carelessness.

An investment in those jewel cases for your CDs on a spindel can't be stressed enough.

Again, congratulations, and take care.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by jampoz
Man I never meant to tell you or make you feel like a moron...

Don't get me wrong, Jampoz, I wasn't accusing you or anyone else in particular of calling me a moron, but I know there are lots of people out there who thought so and justifiably so. I WAS a moron for not backing stuff up regularly, especially when I knew full well what the consequences could be. I got SO luckier than I deserve and I don't intend to let my second chance go by.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Vektor]

One little update:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_039.jpg

This is my final variation on the nacelle struts. I haven't had time to restore the grills for this rendering due to other... obligations, but they will definitely still be there if I decide to go with this version.

Honestly, I rather like it, even though I didn't really expect to. The tapered struts just seem to fit better with the intertwining symmetries and angles of the ship's structure. I'm not 100% sold on it just yet but I'm really darn close.

Here are a couple more just to see what they look like from different angles:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_040.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_041.jpg

Opinions?

[Vektor]

A long planned addition to the nacelles:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_042.jpg

I had hoped to also restore the grills on the nacelle struts and a couple of other things, but I only had an hour or so to work on it tonight. Still not finished with the intercoolers but they're well on their way.

Here's one more at a unique angle just for kicks:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_043.jpg

Note the bridge dome; I finally got that material looking just about how I want it.

More tomorrow, maybe.

[Vektor]

Added back the nacelle strut grills and tweaked the bridge turbolift a little.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_044.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_045.jpg

I may try another variation on the shape of those grills, assuming I can still run Max after tonight. Never did manage to get it reauthorized after the whole hard drive debacle and they haven't responded to my emails, so I guess I'll be making a phone call tomorrow.

Oh, two more things: I changed the color of the sensor domes back to amber and I also created a 1280 wide 5-view rendering of the model thus far. Click here (http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_5view.jpg) to view it.

[Vektor]

Got quite a bit done today. Most of the updates should be pretty obvious, but here's a list just in case:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_046.jpg
1. Completely rebuilt the nacelle struts to even out the curvature on the leading and trailing edges, and added a set of "emergency plasma vents," along the midline this time. Eventually, the plasma conduit within the strut should be faintly visible through the grillwork.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_047.jpg
2. Finally got around to detailing out the bussard collectors on the front ends of the nacelles. The scheme I used is simpler than what I did on the Enterprise and I think the results are slightly better. I also added a healthy amount of glow from the bussards onto the body of the ship, just for color. ;)

[Vektor]

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_048.jpg
3. Added gridlines to the nacelle housings, radiator fins on the intercoolers and some more grillwork underneath the intercoolers.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_049.jpg
4. Built a housing for the warp reactor and associated engineering spaces. It's just a roughed-in shape at this point, probably with quite a bit of greebling to be added, and I will probably integrate the antimatter containment torus a little better somewhere down the road. Also added those cylindrical power couplings that hook the plasma conduits into the reactor assembly. I envision this whole thing as modular, with the couplings able to retract and free the whole engineering section for removal or replacement.

One more pullback just to get the overall effect:
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_050.jpg

The dorsal surface is very nearly finished now. Within the next few days I will be starting in earnest on the ventral side.

[webfox]

Very cool ship. :) The high depth of field makes it look very small, though.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by webfox
Very cool ship. :) The high depth of field makes it look very small, though.

I know, but for the purposes of a WIP image it also makes it look more like a real object.

[sbv20]

I quite like the subtle color differences between the panels all over the surface. that and the fine modelled details give it a great potential to look huge, however the DoF does hamper the effect right now.

[webfox]

I didn't say to remove DOF. It just needs to be proportional to the object.

Still, very cool model. :beer:

[Vektor]

Originally posted by webfox
I didn't say to remove DOF. It just needs to be proportional to the object.

Well, you wouldn't have much DOF at all on a real starship-sized object. What I was going for here was something like the look of a scale model. Again, just for the WIP images, and not even all of those. I just like the effect.

[sbv20]

If DOF makes something look small, how do you make something look big?

[Vektor]

Originally posted by sbv20
If DOF makes something look small, how do you make something look big?

Camera angles, usually.

[Vektor]

Decided to do a little lighting and compositing test.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/test_001a.jpg

That's probably all for today.

[The-3D-Data-Labs-Guy]

he he man this looks awesome.. Keep adding stuff to it. :applause:

[Vektor]

A little experiment:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_052.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_053.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_054.jpg

Opinions?

[Vektor]

Didn't have much time to work on the 147 this evening. This is as far as I got:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_055.jpg

I don't know... I've pretty well confused myself over what I want these dang things to look like. Maybe I should just go back to what I had in the first place.

I guess I'll think of something.

[Vektor]

Yet another try:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_056.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_057.jpg

One thing I want to mention about these renderings is that only the nacelle struts are new. The plasma conduits are still just cylinder primitives and there's a lot more detail to be added to the warp core assembly, the insides of the outriggers and the internals of the struts themselves.

Here's an orthographic tail shot to show how I've oriented the struts this time around:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_058.jpg

As you can see, they're now flat straight across the top, but the undersides are still sloped to accommodate the plasma conduits. This gives a much lower profile to the portion that protrudes above the surface of the outrigger while retaining some of the better qualities of the more upraised struts in previous versions. At least I think so. It probably makes better sense from a structural standpoint as well.

[Vektor]

Finally, here's a rendering with the grills removed, just to show what the internals of the struts look like at this point:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_059.jpg

The glow effect is pretty quick and dirty. It's all indirect off the trough that runs below the conduit. It doesn't look too bad with the grills in place, but after I detail out the conduits themselves it should look quite a bit better. There's also a stray polygon or two in there from the internal structure of the outrigger that I haven't cleaned up yet.

Now, if you'll all excuse me, I hear my pillow calling. ;)

[Vektor]

Started on the impulse engines.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_060.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_061.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_062.jpg

This is just a first pass at some of the basic shapes and the texturing and lighting are very preliminary. I only wish I could work on this thing for more than an hour or so at a time. Hopefully I'll be able to dedicate some serious time to it this weekend.

[Washek]

Really nice texture of Earth!:buttrock:

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Washek
Really nice texture of Earth!:buttrock:

Well, I'd like to take credit for it, but it's an actual photograph taken from the space shuttle by a man named Dr. Jay Apt. I just dropped it in as a background.

[Vektor]

Finally got around to finishing another major section:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_063.jpg

Here's a closer look; note the port and starboard missile launchers flanking the deflector dish:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_064.jpg

Angle on the stern showing the aft missile launcher and that oval feature, which I'm going to leave a mystery for now:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_065.jpg

[Vektor]

Top view with a whole different lighting setup:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_066.jpg

The classic quarter view off the starboard bow:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_067.jpg

And finally, a low angle looking up at the new deflector/weapons module, just because:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_068.jpg

There's actually a whole batch of changes and additions in these renderings. I'm sure you'll all have a grand ol' time spotting them.

[Black Jesus]

i really really like this... you've got so many little details in there... it's come a long way and it really looks awesome. keep it up! :beer:

can't wait to see it with the windows and everything.

[Vektor]

Latest update:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_069.jpg

The only thing new here are the bussards. This is my best attempt yet, if I do say so. I'm not going to claim that they're perfect, but I think I finally hit on a technique that works pretty well.

One more from a closer angle:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_070.jpg

That's all for tonight.

[Vektor]

I figured it was about high time I rendered out a wallpaper image, so here you go:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_071_thumb.jpg (http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_071.jpg)

I only made the one at 1280x1024, so if you're running less than that then you'll just have to shrink to fit.

It's really a toss-up which new addition you're likely to notice first. Obviously, I've moved the deflector dish to the front of the saucer section. I've also added two identical cutouts on the port and starboard edges to expose the laser turret mounts and some associated greebling. Then there's the name across the upper hull and the registry opposite the UESPA logo (a rather non-standard arrangement inspired by a suggestion from a friend named DFScott).

Another thing you may have noticed is that the anti-aliasing on this image is crap. That's because I'm using a 4-layer composite material to apply all these "decals" to the hull, and Max's built-in scanline renderer isn't handling it well. It also slows down the rendering process something fierce. This image took almost 40 minutes to render with 12 depth-of-field passes. I don't think any single image has ever taken 40 minutes to render on this machine. :eek:

I've decided to leave the decals off from now on, or at least until I get around to making the full texture maps. It just isn't worth the insane render times and crappy anti-aliasing for mere WIP images.

Here's a better view of the new deflector dish:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_072.jpg

I'm thinking about widening that cutout a little bit to avoid crowding the dish quite so much on the sides, and I haven't decided yet just how far in or out I want it to be.

[Vektor]

Here's one of the side cutouts for the laser turrets:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_073.jpg

The internals here are still fairly preliminary, though I expect the turrets to be very similar to the ones on the old version of this model. Still debating on whether to include a docking port in this area.

One more just because I liked the lighting and the way the hull material looks:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_074.jpg

For being nothing but a dirt simple, tiled panel map, it doesn't look half bad.

As for the pod, it has gone away for now, and obviously it won't be incorporating a deflector dish anymore regardless. I've pretty much decided to make it purely a weapons pod for the nuclear missiles, if I keep it at all, and it's going to look a lot different than it did before.

One last thing: The main reason I finally gave in and went with the dish mounted on the front of the saucer was because I liked the symmetry of three identical cutouts. I mentioned some time back that most of this model had virtually built itself, and that's how this dish location and the cutouts feel, like they were meant to be.

Sometimes you just have to stop fighting and go with your better instincts. ;)

[baby]

the thing that bother me in almost all the pict was the big rouded front part...but if you're starting to slice it with holes and stuff cool..

I watch all the picts but I didn't read all...what is the soft and modeling technique ?!?

:beer:

[Black Jesus]

yes... i really like the deflector dish on the front of the ship... though i do agree with you that you should widen the cutout some so that the dish doesn't look cramped in there. and i actually prefer this model without the pod on the bottom.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by baby
the thing that bother me in almost all the pict was the big rouded front part...but if you're starting to slice it with holes and stuff cool..

It will probably help when I add the windows also.

I watch all the picts but I didn't read all...what is the soft and modeling technique ?!?

I'm using 3ds Max 4.3 pretty much out of the box. I would love to have a better renderer like Brazil, but that isn't in my price range at the moment.

About 90% of the model is polygons, with a few NURBS objects thrown in here and there (like the deflector dish). The current total polycount is 103,398, but I haven't really optimized some of the more complex parts yet, removed hidden faces, that sort of thing.

I wouldn't mind converting a lot more of this model to NURBS to make all those rounded parts more efficient, but my skills in that area aren't really up to it yet. Maybe some day.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Black Jesus
yes... i really like the deflector dish on the front of the ship... though i do agree with you that you should widen the cutout some so that the dish doesn't look cramped in there. and i actually prefer this model without the pod on the bottom.

Well, I'm posting this model in three other forums besides CGTalk and the pod has been quite the object of controversy in all of them. I actually had people tell me I had ruined the whole model by tacking it on there. Another guy called it a "travesty." I have to admit that even I wasn't very happy with it; it just didn't want to "mesh" with the rest of the model (pun intended). I'd still like to have something down there to ballance things out in the ship's profile, but I'm gonna have to figure out something different.

Oh, and I defintely plan to widen the cutout for the deflector.

[kiaran]

I just finished reading this whole damb thread from the start. It's been nice to see the progress (and I was glad the hard drive story had a happy ending).

Some C&C:

-Your presentation style is very nice. Finally someone that doesn't just render out a jpeg and post it on the net. It shows you really care about this piece.

-Keep the grain to a minimum. It looks good but only when there is just a hint of it, otherwise it's just distracting.

-40mins/frame because of DOF?!?! I used to render DOF in my 3d app too but have long since abandoned any hope of actually using it in any animation or produciton environ. Instead, try rendering out a .rla file with z-depth info. Most compositing apps have an option to blur based on the z-channel. Voila! Real time, adjustable DOF!

-I love this model. Screw anybody who thinks spaceships are 'passe'. CGI, IMO, is to create things that doen't exist. If I want realism, I'll buy a handycam.

Keep it up,
Kiaran

[Vektor]

Originally posted by kiaran
-40mins/frame because of DOF?!?! I used to render DOF in my 3d app too but have long since abandoned any hope of actually using it in any animation or produciton environ. Instead, try rendering out a .rla file with z-depth info. Most compositing apps have an option to blur based on the z-channel. Voila! Real time, adjustable DOF!

No, no, the long render time was because of the composite material I was using for the decals on the hull. I can normally do a 12-pass DOF render in a couple of minutes tops, but that material was just killing my comp. After the first layer, render times started going up exponentially.

I have fixed that problem temporarily by combining all the decals into a single image and applying them with a Blend material instead. I'm still going to do full texture maps eventually, but this will suffice in the meantime.

[Vektor]

Here's one more idea for discussion:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_075.jpg

First, the decals are back. I found a way to do all of them as a single map with a Blend material and no additional hit on the rendering time.

Second, I've lengthened the back half of the nacelles about 15%. I was looking at the model from several angles and thinking the whole thing still seemed a little too front-heavy. Here's two more views:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_076.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_077.jpg

I think the profile, especially, looks a little more ballanced now that the saucer is no longer more than half the ship's length.

Opinions?

[Shotty]

I like it man! Really nicely made. The only thing I have notices is that is looks really small.

I reckon it might be because of the large decals/textures. Are more detailed textures due in the future?

[Vektor]

Okay, I shortened the nacelles almost back to their original length--they're still about 5% longer than before--and moved them back on the nacelle struts an equal distance. Middle of the road compromise, you might say.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_078.jpg

I also widened the front cutout for the deflector dish.

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_079.jpg

Too much? I don't want a huge, gaping hole in the front of the ship but I don't want the dish just crammed in there either.

[Black Jesus]

Originally posted by Vektor

Too much? I don't want a huge, gaping hole in the front of the ship but I don't want the dish just crammed in there either.



could you show a better view of it? it's hard to tell if the hole is too big from that angle.

[Vektor]

Okay, if you guys thoughts I was nuts before, try this on for size:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_080.jpg

This is still a bit crude and lacks finishing details, but I think it has some promise. It's not exactly the improvised, bolted-on missile launcher I was talking about a little while back, but I think it conveys a certain sense of having been added after the fact.

More views:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_081.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_082.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_083.jpg

I've decided to go with the idea that these are protoype photon torpedo launchers. I'm thinking they might be the first such launchers capable of firing their torpedoes at warp speed. Unfortunately, the warp accellerators in the launch tubes have a tendancy to destabilize the antimatter warheads, resulting in a 10-15% chance per shot that the torp will detonate inside the tube. That's why they're stuck out there on those pylons, to minimize the damage to the rest of the ship if they decide to go boom. I don't know, just a thought.

So what do you all think? Anything workable here, or is it even worse than the "egg pod"?

[ChaseJase]

Very nice clean model, I like it!!

[kiaran]

You've done a really great job here with the model. I think it's time to give us an animation. How about a nice slow flyby infront of a big starfield with a nebula or something? Just set it to render next time you go camping or something;)

Nice work,
kiaran

[Vektor]

Okay, got a whole bunch of new images to show you all. Please note, I've cranked up the ambient light levels on these by about two and a half times to make sure all the details were clearly visible. I kinda like the look, actually. ;)

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_084.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_085.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_086.jpg

[Vektor]

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_087.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_088.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_089.jpg

Obviously, I've heavily modified the "pod" again. This still isn't quite where I want it to be, but I think I'm getting pretty close. The front part of the lower extension, above the deflector dish, needs a lot of work, and I may have to adjust the size of those torpedo launchers a little.

I also made a few other changes here and there. I lowered the nacelles just a bit so the upper plane of the struts runs through their centerlines, and I added a few gridlines on top of the outriggers, which you can just barely see in the third rendering above.

That's gonna be all for me until some time on Sunday or Monday as I am heading out of town for some more camping and boating this weekend.

[Black Jesus]

looks nice... but i was really liking the deflector dish on the front... now the front looks kind of dull to me... but i also like it how you have it now... but maybe you should add some little something to the front? i don't have any suggestions as to what... but i just feel like it's missing something in that area now.

[Vektor]

Some preliminary texturing on the nacelles:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_090.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_091.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_092.jpg

I'd like opinions on the following:

1. Is the exhaust streaking too prominent? Not prominent enough?

2. How do you like the name vs. the registry number on the side of the nacelle, bearing in mind that the markings and insignia for this ship are intended to be a little haphazzard given its history?

3. What do you think of the completely red outboard fin? Would a stipe along the edge only be any better?

And just for fun, I challenge everyone to find a semi-hidden detail in the third rendering that reveals part of the ship's backstory. ;)

[Gremlin]

whoa, thats lookin' sweet, now lets see some animations with that baby in a dog fight with another ship!! whooohooo!! :surprised
Cheers,
:beer:

[Esim]

Hi,

really very nice. I think its cool to see a spaceship on cgtalk (love them) and your work.

Greets

Esim

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Gremlin
whoa, thats lookin' sweet, now lets see some animations with that baby in a dog fight with another ship!! whooohooo!! :surprised
Cheers,
:beer:
Well, I think I'd better finish the model first before I start animating it. ;)

Oh, one other thing: I like the red outboard fin but it does present some visual problems in terms of showing up against a dark background and a couple other things. I went back and updated the last three renderings with just the edge painted red, so take another look at 'em. I don't think it's quite as bold or stylish that way, but it's more practical.

Anyway, I'm probably going to have to set this project aside for the next few days in order to deal with some other pressing matters, so discussion will have to suffice in the mean time.

[Clawhammer]

Vektor, very nice renders.

Try this: dont render to JPG directly, first render to any other non compressing format, en convert to jpg in photoshop, this way you probably wont have that red/black pixelating problem.

Mark

[MimikOctopus]

at first i thought the model was boring, but now that you are adding lots of detail, I've changed my mind. The details that are coming in are lookin really good.

[Rei Ayanami]

I think the dirt is ok, kina took me a while to find where you had put it, but the subtle effect is good, true to the origonal, they were all squeky cleen all the time!

great modin too, whats the poly count on this one?

[Vektor]

Sorry I haven't been too talkative recently, gang. I'll try to get around to responding to a few of your posts in the near future, but in the meantime...

A size comparison between the 147 and the TOS Enterprise (another model I am working on but have never shown here):

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_093.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_094.jpg

And a couple of wireframe renderings:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_095.jpg
http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/wip_096.jpg

Current face count is 108,697.

[Vektor]

Heads up! Here comes progress!

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_097.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_098.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_099.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_100.jpg

The whole neck piece is pretty much the same as before but I've made some major changes to the deflector assembly and the photon torpedo launchers. I'm really happy with the way the deflector turned out this time and I think it's pretty much final. The photorp launchers are mostly satisfactory as well, but I might still tweak 'em a little bit.

Oh, one more important detail: I moved the whole neck assembly back several meters, which had some interesting effects visually. I even tried extending it way back, and that wasn't bad either, very unique. I'm pretty pleased with where it is now, though.

Let the C&C begin!

[BiTMAP]

mind showing your light rig and some of the light colour and brightness settings (as well as perhaps the GI settings?) I really really Like your render look... And your texture work (or it may be a side effect of your render and lighting) looks amazing! really, I am not a mega Trek fan, but i love it.


although the fat edge of the dish just keeps screaming to me something is missing? perhaps windows or just SOMETHING .. (a groove?? that'd be interesting...)

[Vektor]

Originally posted by BiTMAP
mind showing your light rig and some of the light colour and brightness settings (as well as perhaps the GI settings?) I really really Like your render look...
I would be happy to do so, but it's a bit late tonight to go into detail. The short explanation goes like this:

I'm not using Global Illumination. I use a sphere of 66 shadowmapped spotlights to achieve a passable illusion of G.I. There's also a raytraced key light and fill light in there, one white, the other slightly orange-tinted. And there's a bluish tint to the sphere of spotlights, by the way.

Beyond that, there's some added brightness and contrast, a tiny bit of film grain and an even tinier bit of blur.

And your texture work (or it may be a side effect of your render and lighting) looks amazing! really, I am not a mega Trek fan, but i love it.
Ironically, nearly all the textures on this model are simple, tiled placeholders until I get the real texture work done. The engines have a real texture on them but not even those are finished yet. If you think the texturing looks good now, maybe I shouldn't take the chance of screwing it up by doing it properly. ;)

although the fat edge of the dish just keeps screaming to me something is missing? perhaps windows or just SOMETHING .. (a groove?? that'd be interesting...)
Rest assured, I'll be adding numerous windows to the primary hull and other parts of the ship eventually. I usually save them for the final step because once they've been modeled, it becomes nigh unto impossible to do anything else with the hull segments they're cut into.

Stay tuned.

[Volcandro]

Very good quality model.
Maybe you could add some stars and a sun ?

:)

[Vektor]

Just on a whim, I desided to try something a little different tonight. I wanted to see what the 147 would look like inside a drydock. I looked around and found a couple decent ones online, but none that I was really happy with, so I decided to build my own. After about an hour and a half, I managed to come up with this:

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_101.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_102.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_103.jpg

Aside from the quick-and-dirty drydock, the only other detail of note in these images is that the 147 is "powered down." All in all, I think they came off pretty good.

[Rei Ayanami]

nice lookin earth, where you get that from (and dont say just NASA). I like the dry dock (hell its in space, its gota be dry ^_^) but i think the lighiting is a little too strong, the film wiht the Enterpirise in one at the begining is much softer than that.

your fish eye screws up the front bit of the engine in the 1st shot, or something is up with your texturing.

looks cool 'off' tho.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Rei Ayanami
nice lookin earth, where you get that from (and dont say just NASA).

Well, it is just a generic NASA photo with an enhanced starfield, nothin' fancy. ;)

I like the dry dock (hell its in space, its gota be dry ^_^) but i think the lighiting is a little too strong, the film wiht the Enterpirise in one at the begining is much softer than that.

I assume you're talking about Star Trek: The Motion Picture back in '79. The difference was sunlight, as in there wasn't any, just the soft illumination from the drydock. I prefer a little bright-edged sunlight thrown in.

your fish eye screws up the front bit of the engine in the 1st shot, or something is up with your texturing.

It's a wide-angle view and there's some distortion, even more in the third image. I think it kind of adds to the effect. ;)

[Vektor]

Okay, this has got to be it!

Here we have an alternate version of the deflector/photorp launcher assembly with the launchers dropped down to the centerline of the deflector dish. I actually think this looks rather cool:
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_104.jpg

This is an aft view showing my new scheme for integrating the neck of the lower assembly into the "U" shaped aft hulls. You can't really tell from this image but that "shelf" below the warp core and the "cove" areas surrounding the shuttle bays have been stretched back a few meters to make more room for the neck to connect to the main body of the ship without being crowded forward. I also moved the phaser turret mount down directly behind the deflector because it just seemed to belong there in this new configuration:
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_105.jpg

Here's an orthographic bottom view that helps clarify how I modified the cove area beneath the aft hulls. You may notice that the open panels behind the impulse engines are a bit smaller now and don't expose as much of the nacelle struts. I think the symmetry between the deflector/photorp launcher assembly and the warp nacelles and nacelle struts works pretty well, too:
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_106.jpg

Finally, here's a side view to show how it all comes together from one of the most important angles. It also shows how much the cove area has been extended back:
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_107.jpg

In terms of the overall structure, I don't think it's gonna get much better than this. I still need to rework the shuttle bays and add some detail to the back of the "neck," some conduits and other greebling to help tie it all in with the warp core. Might even try to squeeze an aft firing photorp launcher in there somewhere.

So tell me, does this work in terms of overall proportions and the relationships of all the major parts and pieces to each other? I really don't know what more I could possibly do to improve it any further. If I can finally get the big stuff nailed down then I can go ahead and finish things like the windows, escape pods, phaser turrets, etc.

[BiTMAP]

your shapes are very very easy looking and flow nicely, I say You'd be ready to go on, but don't just trust me :S

[FatherTed]

Just been looking through this thread and its really interesting to see the progression. I think the model is looking very nice and definitely Trek (which is still 'hip' :buttrock:) but with that original side you wanted.

The only thing that bugs me is the round front ‘dish’ does it need more detail? Is their going to be any type of windows there?

Looking very cool

FT

[Vektor]

I decided to do a 10 second fly-around animation to get a better look at the model from a variety of angles. The Web host I'm using for this seems to be awfully slow for some reason, so you're probably better off downloading the file to your hard drive instead of trying to play it directly.

Vanguard Fly-Around (1.87MB, DivX 5.05) (http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/videos/rotation_02.avi)

[William b. Hand]

Very Cool, Vector! Just went through (nearly) your entire thread. The only area that seemed to me to need "something more" is the neck, which you've explained is on your "to-do" list - so nevermind.

The animated once-around worked quickly for me, and I was happily suprised finding it so large on the screen.:thumbsup:

I'm looking forward to your finishing details/textures! Awesome presentation, too. :beer:

[Vektor]

Originally posted by William b. Hand
The animated once-around worked quickly for me, and I was happily suprised finding it so large on the screen.:thumbsup:

Yeah, I wanted to make sure it was big and sharp. Unfortunately, I made the novice mistake of repeating the first and last frames, which causes a momentary hesitation when the animation repeats. I'll have to fix that the next time around. ;)

[Vektor]

Okay, it's almost 3 AM and I am nearly comatose at this point, so I'm not gonna offer a lot of commentary on the following images. Hopefully they will be self-explanatory.

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_108.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_109.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_110.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_111.jpg

[Vektor]

Oh, by the way, I updated the fly-around animation with the added detail and the #2 hangar bay open:

Vanguard Fly-Around (1.87MB, DivX 5.05) (http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/videos/rotation_02.avi)

I think I also fixed most of the hesitation when the sequence repeats itself, results may vary, though.

[Vektor]

Originally posted by FatherTed
The only thing that bugs me is the round front ‘dish’ does it need more detail? Is their going to be any type of windows there?
Yes, I am getting very close to the window stage on this model and there will be quite a few around the saucer.

[Vektor]

Okay, I finally have some fairly solid size information for this ship.

Length Overall: 154.35m (506.42')
Width Overall: 82.55m (270.85')
Height Overall: 42.19m (138.43')
Primary Hull Maximum Diameter: 82.55m (270.85')
Primary Hull Maximum Height: 25.88m ( 84.91')
No. of Primary Hull Decks: 6
Floor to Floor Deck Height: 3.50m ( 11.48')
Standard Head Height per Deck: 2.75m ( 9.02')
Maximum Ext. Bridge Diameter: 12.85m ( 42.16')
Warp Nacelle Length Overall: 76.76m (251.85')
Warp Nacelle Maximum Diameter: 13.80m ( 45.28')

I believe I now have enough information to begin the process of adding the windows.

By the way, the Vanguard turns out to be just over half the length of the TOS Enterprise, so my earlier size comparison was pretty darn close.

[William b. Hand]

I don't know why, but to me there's something comforting about the fact that you've got all those specs worked out and listed. :)

Good to know the lion's portion of structural detailing is just around the corner! Love the little shuttle, and I dig that you have windows (?) already overlooking the shuttle bays... nice touch.

[hercanic]

Dear Vektor:
This is looking really good. The thing I absolutely love is seeing the evolution of a piece from initial concept and phase and forward. Keep it up, I'm eagerly awaiting what you'll do next.

[Vektor]

This is my first pass at a cross-sectional deck layout for the primary hull; although, since I posted all those dimensions, I have decided to scale everything up so my deck-to-deck distance increases to 4m:

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/CrossSection.jpg

Notice the 6' human figure on the bridge and the other one on deck 4.

I have to say, I'm pretty much astonished at how well the decks line up with major features on the ship's exterior, like the floor of the warp core niche and the recess for the toroids on the bottom of the primary hull. The floor of the bridge winds up to be a little lower than anticipated, but then I remembered the "well" filled with greebles in front of the bridge module and it fits perfectly. You would almost think I had planned all of this... :eek:

[Akkalis]

Very nice, I like it. Nah, I love it. its like Retro Trek with cooler designs.

I can't wait to see it finished, the edge of the saucer does need detail or something to break it up (since you've gone into the detail elsewhere, it does look unfinished...fortunately, it is!) but you said you're getting to that.

Keep at it, and Space Ships are cool when they are done right. And this is done right.

[King Shaka]

Wow, very well done ship, man. Only one thing dunno if anybody has already mentioned.. on the right... turbine whateverthing, the "vanguard" texture is mirrored....

[Klaymen]

Are you going to model interior too, so that when one looks through the windows one can see people and stuff inside?

[Dancing Monkey]

This model is incredible!

The only problem, which is small, is that it seems to look like plastic... dunno why. It just does.

Other than that it's too cool!

[Vektor]

Here's a new animation with one of the photorp launchers turned backwards and the shuttlecraft actually launching from the bay:

Rotation Anim (1.89 MB, DivX v5.05) (http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/videos/rotation.avi)

Enjoy!

[Vektor]

A slightly different shuttle launch anim this time:

Launch Anim (1.59 MB, DivX v5.05) (http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/videos/launch.avi)

Yeah, I know the hangar bay lacks detail and that there's some odd geometry sticking out of the wall, and I know the shuttlecraft textures are too low-res and that it lifts off from the deck and then stops a little too abruptly before gliding forward, but this particular shot is one I've wanted to do for a long time and I figured now was as good a time as any.

[William b. Hand]

Kickass, Vektor! This is a fun thread.:beer:

[Vektor]

Let there be laser turrets!

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_112.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_113.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_114.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_115.jpg

From pencil sketched concept to more or less finished model, about two and a half hours. Although, I have to admit I've had at least a vague idea of what I wanted them to look like for a long time. They're not all that different from the laser turrets on the previous version of this model, though a bit more detailed.

All for tonight.

[Thorlacius]

Hi Vector

I am a very devoted trekkie, and when this is said, you should NOT put more into my words than you yourself find nessecary :)

I think your modelling, your materials and your lightning is exceptional, I also think it is very nice to see your devotion to your project, very good work, she is a beutifull ship

BUT it is a mess seen from the eyes of a real trekkie,
cause I don´t have the slightest clue where to place this fine ship in the timeline.
It is too new to be from the original series, and it is too old to be from TNG, maybe i should put it in the middle og these to series, but this i cannot do either. and why??? because it does not follow the design guidelines for that period of trek history.

It really looks as though it is a mix between the U.S.S Defiant and the original Enterprise.

Thorlacius

So my only option ids to say that this is at ship from the mirror universe, where things like that can happen.. :p

The last thing i would like to say is, Please take the U.S.S. Constitution shuttle away from the shuttlebay, and make a new type of shuttles unique for this ship. that works better otherwise the confusion is total :eek:

Otherwise as said before, Damn good work, you have a good right to be very proud.. :applause:

[Vektor]

Originally posted by Thorlacius
I think your modelling, your materials and your lightning is exceptional, I also think it is very nice to see your devotion to your project, very good work, she is a beutifull ship

BUT it is a mess seen from the eyes of a real trekkie,
cause I don´t have the slightest clue where to place this fine ship in the timeline.
Well, I consider myself a "real" Trekkie also and I don't think it quite qualifies as a "mess" in terms of its place in Trek history. The truth is, the Vanguard is an oddball by design. It's not a ship of the line, it's an experimental testbed for new technology, specifically the technology being developed for the soon-to-be-built Constitution class.

It is too new to be from the original series, and it is too old to be from TNG, maybe i should put it in the middle og these to series, but this i cannot do either. and why??? because it does not follow the design guidelines for that period of trek history. It really looks as though it is a mix between the U.S.S Defiant and the original Enterprise.
It was intended to be an early 23rd century design, about 20 years prior to TOS. I think it can plausably fit into that era given its unique nature and a certain allowance for modern detail and realism.

So my only option ids to say that this is at ship from the mirror universe, where things like that can happen.. :p
If you have to reconcile its existence in absolute terms then you're welcome to that explanation, but as far as I'm concerned, it belongs in the regular Trek universe. If there's room for the NX-01 then there's room for this. ;)

The last thing i would like to say is, Please take the U.S.S. Constitution shuttle away from the shuttlebay, and make a new type of shuttles unique for this ship. that works better otherwise the confusion is total :eek:
The shuttle was built for my U.S.S. Constitution model. I just stuck it in there for reference and to help establish a sense of scale. It certainly doesn't belong there.

[Vektor]

By the way, the Rotation animation has been updated again with the laser turrets added.

Rotation Anim (2.64 MB, DivX v5.05) (http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/videos/rotation.avi)

[stecki]

i thought this easily fit in the trek universe TOS time personally, but i'm no trekkie, just a loose fan. can't tell you how the warpdrive works, i just know it does fan.

it's interesting that you put lasers there as i always saw those side ports as access ports for the umbilicals (sp?). not sure i'm sold on these, but every starship needs them i suppose. i thought they were phasers in star trek.

i was wondering if in your turntable anims maybe try one where you rotate the ship and keep the lighting and camera fixed so we can see the shadows fall across the surfaces and make them sing a little more. i thought you did an animation with the lights in the engine animated and all that. where is that?

anyways, this is a nice ship you got, makes me want to make one too. and that's the best, when your stuff inspires others i think. very cool! if only they had trekkie smileys...

[Vektor]

Originally posted by stecki
it's interesting that you put lasers there as i always saw those side ports as access ports for the umbilicals (sp?). not sure i'm sold on these, but every starship needs them i suppose. i thought they were phasers in star trek.
They were always intended to house the turrets, but I can easily see where they might be confused with docking ports or umbilical connection points. I'm still tempted to incorporate something like that in the same general area.

And they were called phasers in most of Star Trek, except the Original Series pilot where they were referred to as lasers. This is generally assumed to mean that lasers were the beam weapon technology that had been used up to that point. Or at least it was until the new series Enterprise came along and contradicted that idea. For the purposes of this project, I'm choosing to ignore that contradiction.

i was wondering if in your turntable anims maybe try one where you rotate the ship and keep the lighting and camera fixed so we can see the shadows fall across the surfaces and make them sing a little more. i thought you did an animation with the lights in the engine animated and all that. where is that?
That's a good idea, I'll rotate the ship next time instead of the camera.

As for animated engine lights, I assume you mean the lights in the domes on the front ends of the engines. They're supposed to flash randomly while the blades rotate in front of them. I have done that on a couple other Trek ships I've modeled but not on this one as yet. It's a pretty complicated setup and getting it to animate properly is a pain in the ass. If I had the expertise, I would write a script to control the effects automatically, but I just haven't delved into that aspect of 3D modeling and animation as yet. Maybe it's time I did...

anyways, this is a nice ship you got, makes me want to make one too. and that's the best, when your stuff inspires others i think. very cool!
Well, that's always a good thing to hear, especially in such a talent heavy forum as this one. Thanks for tuning in. ;)

[hercanic]

Dear Vektor:
Do you have protective doors over the turrets when they're retracted?

[Vektor]

Originally posted by hercanic
Dear Vektor:
Do you have protective doors over the turrets when they're retracted?
Not as such, but I have toyed with the idea of enclosing those circular openings on each side of the saucer with a pair of hull panels that pop out and slide apart, so that in their closed position you don't even know those openings are there.

[Vektor]

Cargo bays:

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_116.jpg

Now, let me explain what's going on here. There are actually four cargo bays, two on each side of the ship in a stacked configuration. The ones on top, cargo bays 1 and 2, have an exterior door in the ceiling, not unlike the loading hatches on a modern day cargo ship. The ones on the bottom, cargo bays 3 and 4, are directly in front of the hangar bays and are primarily accessible through those bays. Each pair of cargo bays is also connected by a cargo lift at one end.

I have a further thought for the hangar bays as well: I'd like to have one shuttlecraft and at least two work pods in each bay. Given the height of those bays, I thought it might be cool if the entire front half (nearest the doors) of each bay was actually a giant lift, able to rise halfway up, and the back half of each bay would be a platform that could slide forward underneath the raised lift. This would allow the work pods to be launched without having to first launch the shuttlecraft to get it out of the way.

[onscreen]

DADDY! i want that toy! i want!!!!

wow... marvellous modelling. Man~ :p

:beer:

How long did you take to come out this marvellous result?

[Vektor]

Here is the shell of the hangar/cargo bay complex:

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_117.jpg

I'm actually offering this as a downloadable ZIP file on a couple other forums I frequent for people who have expressed an interest in doing their own models of the hangar and cargo bay interiors. It will be interesting to see what some of them come up with.

If anyone here on CGTalk would like to do the same, I can provide the ZIP file upon request.

[hercanic]

Dear Vektor:
You know, it'd be awesome if when you finish modeling the interior, you combined the two, add windows to the main ship, and animate a little movie segment where the ship passes by, you see the interior through a window, and perhaps the camera slids in and gives you a tour of the ship as the crew and ship go about their duties.

[Black Jesus]

Originally posted by hercanic
Dear Vektor:
You know, it'd be awesome if when you finish modeling the interior, you combined the two, add windows to the main ship, and animate a little movie segment where the ship passes by, you see the interior through a window, and perhaps the camera slids in and gives you a tour of the ship as the crew and ship go about their duties.


ohhh yeah that would kick ass.

[Vektor]

I don't have a lot of progress to show on the 3D model, but I have been flexing my traditional artwork muscles a little recently and managed to come up with this:

http://www.vektorsdomain.com/images/NCC-147/Concept_01.jpg

Obviously this isn't finished yet, but I think it's far enough along for most of you to figure out what it's going to be. Even though it's not 3D, I figured it was okay to post it here since it's directly related to the Vanguard.

By the way, this was drawn freehand in pencil and shaded in PhotoShop, though the shading was pretty quick and dirty.

Comments?

[William b. Hand]

It seems to me that, because of the under-swooping windows, one would have great difficulty reaching these controls.

You have them popping forward, but it doesn't look like they're popping forward anywhere near enough. To use these slides and buttons you'd have to lean forward in an very awkward manner.

[Vektor]

I got the irresistable urge to do some work on the old 147 this weekend. It's been floating in limbo for far too long, and now that the major holidays are out of the way, I finally have a chance to do something about it. I still have a couple of other projects to finish, most notably my USS Grandeur model, but I figured switching gears for an afternoon or two couldn't hurt.

Here's the latest:

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_118.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_119.jpg

Obviously, the impulse engines have been pretty heavily reworked. This is actually pretty close to what I had planned from the beginning; I'm just now getting around to adding the finishing details.

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_120.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_121.jpg

So what happened to the textures, you ask? Well, let's just say I finally got around to rescaling the model to its correct size, but the texture mapping got pretty well FUBAR'd in the process, so I decided to start over. No big deal, I think I'd rather finish the modeling work anyway without trying to texture at the same time.

Oh, speaking of modeling, if your observant you might be able to spot a few other changes and additions besides the impulse engines as well.

[Vektor]

A now for a little more progress:

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_122.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_123.jpg

I now have 18 escape pods capable of holding 4 people each, so I guess that means a maximum crew complement of 72.

I wasn't sure about the windows at first but they're definitely growing on me. I think they lend a certain retro, '50s flying saucer sort of feel. I'd like to get some feedback on their size and shape.

[Vektor]

Okay, I did these just for fun. For some reason the latest revisions got me thinking of 1950's experimental aircraft, so I decided to see what an aircraft aluminum starship might look like...

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_124.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_125.jpg

So that's what they look like before they're run through the orbital paint booth! :D

[DigitalCrystal]

Great stuff. I remember this tread from months back.. good to see you've gone back to it ;) Everything is lookin' great. Keep up the good work.

[Vektor]

Okay, I added another row of windows on deck 5, but I'm thinking there are too many. I may go back and combine each pair of windows below the escape pods into a single window in the center, and I might make them smaller to boot.

Opinions?

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_126.jpg

[DigitalCrystal]

I'd keep the windows, they just seem a bit to spacy between them, as compared to the windows and 'hatches' above them. Perhaps a painted line or maybe something that 'connects' the windows together may be what you need? I like the multilevel look, but it seems bland :)

Hope this helps, keep up the good work.

[Vektor]

Okay, the deck 5 windows aren't working for me. Tomorrow I'm going to thin them out pretty drastically and also reduce them in size.

[Vektor]

Okay, how about this?

http://home.comcast.net/~jasoncbl/images/NCC-147/wip_127.jpg

[William b. Hand]

I definitely prefer the paired-down windows.

You might try throwing one or two of the larger windows under the rear-most emergency hatches that we see here. Having a shift in size might be interesting. I'm also assuming you'll be throwing tiny windows all over this ship, eventually... So, I'm not in a panic to see you fill up space with the big 'uns.

...I think you're doing an excellent job of following your instincts, by the way :) . Good to see you're still working on this, Vektor.

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Vektor,

THIS is what the NX-01 SHOULD have been! :thumbsup:

Very 'Cool-looking' (What B&B were shooting for), very mechanical, but it still indicates the embryonic spaceflight tech in use at the time. It's nice to know, that they didn't IMMEDIATELY jump to a saucer shape in this universe, and it's not as clumsy-looking as the Daedelus class (with the sphere) was. (I still feel the NX-01 design would have been PERFECT for a ship in the same time as the 1701, but looks FAR too advanced for a ship 150 years its' junior.)

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.