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View Full Version : I know, I know....but here it is again


gaiXyn
06-21-2003, 08:27 AM
you guys have probably heard this 100 times.....so here's a 101....I'm currently using maya ( great program by the way )....however I've heard that lightwave is also a very good program....and I would like to give it a try just to make sure that Maya is indeed the right program for me....from those of U that have been using the lightwave program for awile ( or those that have switched from another to lightwave recently) what R your thoughts on it....should I switch?....does it have an easy learning curve?....does the tools in lightwave meet up to maya's? ( ex: animation/vfx/modeling etc ).....and finally can lightwave do cloth and hair/fur simulatons out of the box?

and please don't make this a dis to other programs ( we are all very much aware of the ups and downs each application has )

//peaCe.....

leigh
06-21-2003, 08:33 AM
Firstly, don't post questions like this in the General Discussions forum - we've made it very clear that they are not allowed there. I've moved this to the LW forum.

Secondly, why not answer this question yourself. It's your life, make your own choices - get the LW demo and see for yourself. If you go ahead and buy a program based purely on peoples decisions... well, that would be a very foolish thing to do indeed.

gaiXyn
06-21-2003, 08:38 AM
getting a few opinions on the program wouldn't hurt right?...besides, it's just a matter of seeing who's satisfied w/ there decision...

//peaCe....

Odrakir
06-21-2003, 08:59 AM
I'd just say: get the demo. But take in account LW is much different than Maya. It'll take you a while to get used to it.

Anyway, the learning curve is not too tough. LW is much cheaper than Maya. The community is the best.

I see it as Maya being a big program for big projects. But LW is great for one-person use.

Hey! I don't want to start a discussion here, so please just don't answer my post.

Odrakir.

wgreenlee1
06-21-2003, 10:10 AM
Having and currently using both....


Learn Lightwaves modeling and let Maya handle the rest......


BTW:
As everyone else said.....this is my opinion and not a attack on the faithful....:thumbsup:

Wolfzbane
06-21-2003, 11:57 AM
I also agree, Lightwave's modeling tools are quite nice although quite different than Maya. I use Lightwave at home and Maya at work. You could model in Lightwave and use Kaydara's fbx plugin (free btw) to export your objects to Maya and continue your work there.

comanche
06-21-2003, 12:25 PM
....and I would like to give it a try just to make sure that Maya is indeed the right program for me....

If you want to make sure that Maya's the right one, you're not really looking for another one.


... we are all very much aware of the ups and downs each application has

So I have to agree with Leigh: why not answer this question yourself? Get the demo and don't waste your time to ask such questions here. Spend your time with the demo to find out the pros and cons.

Cheers,
Andreas

Boone
06-21-2003, 04:10 PM
Its a fact that most people use Lightwave to model and Maya to animate...

Use them both together like I've just mentioned and you have the best the 3D industry has to offer. :thumbsup:

And remember, always read the stickys...:shame:

Good luck with whatever package(s!) you decide to go for...:beer:

iBlue
06-21-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by E=mc˛
Im not familiar with Lightwave :thumbsdow
If i was you ... ill use Maya, 3Dsmax, XSI the 3 main programs

E=mc˛, you dont even use Lightwave, how can you emmediately say its not any good when you dont even know how to use it all the while saying 3Dmax or XSI are better even though, like lightwave, you've never used them?!?!

I find this extremely offensive and ignorent to say. :annoyed:

Boone
06-21-2003, 04:34 PM
Re: E=mc3.

Looks like you may have started a flame war!:scream:

iBlue
06-21-2003, 04:41 PM
Complaints from LW users or former users is acceptable since they know what they're talking about because they have expirence behind them, they arent just being biased and prejudice.

But people who have never even loaded the program on their computer? How the heck can they even have an opinion on it at all?

....


Yes im upset. :annoyed:

samartin
06-21-2003, 04:45 PM
one of my motto's in life :-

Don't diss until you've tried it

I launched XSI EXP at work the other day and it's like woahh !!! so many menu's it's unreal, but I love the fact you can render the limited region with a great amount of freedom, like a built in viper it's rox !!!

anieves
06-21-2003, 04:56 PM
he, he wondering if he can afford all "main 3 programs":rolleyes: :surprised

some ppl don't get it. Is not about the application...
This is a very personal thing, most employers are willing to pay for training for ANY app, if you happen to know the app used by your employer it is a bonus for them cause you can jump in into the production pipeline rightaway.

Bottom line, use what YOU are most confortable using, this is your decision to make and yours alone. Get the demos try them out and see what fits your style, easy.


comments like those of E=mc˛ are sensless and made to irritate ppl.:shame:

EvilE
06-21-2003, 05:00 PM
Yes XSI really rox but the prize of it is :thumbsdow
I would also say that Maya is more powerfull then Lightwave in everything else then modelling but ... do you really need all the toys Maya gives you ? Do you really want a much more complicated and slower workflow ? Do you really want to put the money for Maya out of the pocket ?

I decided that i do not . I dont need all those funky but in some parts halfassed implemented features . I prefer an easier workflow that may limit me at some points but gets me to my goal faster for most tasks and i definetly have no money to through away for stuff that ill never need .

... but thats just me so decide for yourself

iBlue
06-21-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by anieves

comments like those of E=mc˛ are sensless and made to irritate ppl.:shame:

And are unprofessional and should have no home on CGTalk the place for "Digital visual effects professionals".

Chewey
06-21-2003, 05:23 PM
I think if you consider the fact that she is in her early pre teens (likely 12 judging from her photos) then her comments pretty much match her age.

iBlue
06-21-2003, 05:31 PM
i thought E=mc˛ was 16, but still, i understand what you are getting at chewey.

Boone
06-21-2003, 06:40 PM
Re: iBlue & CO.

Hey! Knock it off. E=mc3 has posted something that she most likely just wrote off the top of her head...we all do it now and again. I've known her to admit when she is wrong so don't start leaping on her just yet...:shame:

I agree with you, as I know that Maya & Lightwave used together are a powerful combination but there's no need for you to get nasty.

Think how I feel when you lot say TrueSpace isn't worth the light of day...:annoyed:

samartin
06-21-2003, 06:42 PM
nothing wrong with TS, but get back in that forum YOU !!! oh do they not have that forum ??? :p

Chewey
06-21-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by iBlue
i thought E=mc˛ was 16, but still, i understand what you are getting at chewey.

She's changed her birthdate a couple of times but it's really not a big deal. Kids do say the darndest things.

Jack Benny never aged beyond 39.

iratethemad
06-21-2003, 06:49 PM
I use Maya and Lightwave love them both so try it out it couldnt hurt

Boone
06-21-2003, 06:50 PM
Re: Samartin.

Why you little...I oughta...I can't wait till we meet again!:twisted:

(...with a black-marker pen, I write the words Love & Hate across my knuckles...)

Zarathustra
06-21-2003, 07:04 PM
Lightwave is the only 3D app I have experience with. It's reassuring to hear so many favor Lightwave's Modeler (that's where I do most of my work, I guess) but a bit disheartening to hear of animation shortcomings in light of Maya.

On the job front, I see way more requests for experience with Max & Maya then anything else. I'm not sure how much of that is knowledge by the employer or just terms that they throw out there because that's what they've heard. Be that as it may, it's still true.

As a young kid starting out today, I would probably get a decent computer, copy of Maya and force myself to learn it inside and out. Then go for a year or less to some school on the west coast just to network and make the connections needed to get a decent job. Of course, all this hinges on having understanding parents with some $$$.

I appologize to my Lightwave brethren. If you want to send me 100s of Lightwave job offers to prove me wrong, be my guest. I would welcome that whole-heartedly.:)

Wolfzbane
06-21-2003, 07:37 PM
I learned Lightwave first, night school.
Then I went to one of those overpriced 3D schools for 8 months and learned 3Ds Max and SoftImage.
Then I got my first real job as a 3D artist at a studio that uses Maya and learned it on the job.
So I have some experience with them all, although not equally, and all are fantastic applications in my opinion.
I prefer modeling in Lightwave though, and not because I think it is better than the rest... but simply because I feel comfortable there. And I wish I had the time and opportunity to spend some time in Max and XSI to fully appreciate them just because I love learning new stuff... but a guy's gotta sleep sometime, lol.
All in all it's completely pointless to try and compare one 3d app against another, just try them all for a while (if you can) and go with what you like and what your budget can afford. I know I for one don't make that big a salary, so for me Lightwave is the preferred choice. And even though there will always be some dumb-dumb come along and bitch about how your chosen app can't do this or can't do that as well as the other app, you come to really love your chosen 3d app after a little while, lol.

gaiXyn
06-21-2003, 08:28 PM
thanks very much everyone.....from what I've gathered...lightwave is good for modeling and Maya for animation....but what about the other stuff I asked about....like can lightwave do good vfx, cloth and hair/fur simulatons out of the box?

didn't read anything about that.....

//peaCe.....

Boone
06-21-2003, 08:34 PM
Re: Binder.

There is a free download plug-in for Lightwave called "Shave & a haircut"...I forget the website though.

Even on my aging PentiumII 233mhz, it still produced reasonable hair & fur effects. It'll get the job done.:thumbsup:

FB_Turbine
06-21-2003, 08:47 PM
Binder,

Yes, with a but, to your questions. Lightwave is good for vfx, cloth and hair/fur and can do them out of box. But, the hair/fur is a limited lite version of a commercial plugin "Sasquatch (http://www.worley.com/sasquatch/sasquatch.html)" You can do a basic stuff with the lite version. Human hair and grass is very do able, but if you want complex colors, length and simpler to use dynamics you'll want the full version.

The cloth simulation system is included and is better then average. It's very flexible, collision for clothing takes some tweaking but works. I've yet to use something I've thought was better but I've only used a few others. I'm sure there is or will be something better, but I've yet to find it. There's one for Maya from the square film's team that looks really good, but I don't have maya.

Not sure of anything specific to say about vfx. I'd say any of the apps would give you plenty of options in doing vfx.

EvilE
06-21-2003, 11:00 PM
btw if you want fur and cloth in maya you have to buy maya unlimited and not complete.unlimited costs 6999 $ while for lightwave 7.5 + DFX+(compositing app) + free upgrade to lightwave 8 you pay 1,595$ and if you are missing some features buy some plugs ( http://www.worley.com/sasquatch/sasquatch.html#top ) for lightwave and you are still far below 6999$

EE

gaiXyn
06-21-2003, 11:07 PM
well I'm currently using maya ( as said in my first post )....and it is unlimited..( so I've tried out the cloth and fur )....I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on anything from lightwave.....I've heard great things from lightwave....and I am aware that it isn't the app that makes the artist, but it's the artist that makes the app....however I still wanted to hear some friendly opinions from you lightwave users head on.....from the horse's mouth so to speak.....

//peaCe....:bounce:

leigh
06-22-2003, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Binder
well I'm currently using maya ( as said in my first post )....and it is unlimited

Since Maya licenses are absolutely non-transferable, it would probably be in the best interests of your sanity to stick with Maya then and stay well away from looking at any other programs - I know that if I spent $7000 on a program and then decided I prefered something else, I'd shove my head down a toilet and scream my throat raw LOL :scream:

But in all seriousness though, isn't it a little late to be wondering whether or not Maya is the app for you when you've already forked out the cash for the license? :surprised Surely you should have thoroughly checked out all available options before making your initial purchase?

gaiXyn
06-22-2003, 12:23 AM
I know that if I spent $7000 on a program and then decided I prefered something else, I'd shove my head down a toilet and scream my throat raw LOL

agreed! big time!!:thumbsup: ....but I didn't spend that money recently.....and Maya has made it back for me....( well most of it anyway :hmm: ).....and I can always install lightwave ( if I decide to take a run @ it ) on my other machine....

I understand that lightwave has radosity capability....how does it stand to metal ray or renderman for quality as well as speed?

//peaCe.....

Shade01
06-22-2003, 01:18 AM
I understand that lightwave has radosity capability....how does it stand to metal ray or renderman

Lightwaves renderer is a little slower than MR or PR, but the results are just as good. Also, you don't have to do much work to get a decent looking render.

iBlue
06-22-2003, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by E=mc˛
thank you Iblue... that was sweet.. did i say that lightwave sucks ? NO !

Familiar = Having fair knowledge; acquainted: was familiar with those roads.

I'm glad you know the meaning of an irrelvant word, thats just super duper!

this is what i am commenting on.

Originally posted by E=mc˛

If i was you ... ill use Maya, 3Dsmax, XSI the 3 main programs

last i checked you have never used lightwave, so how can you recommend someone not use it?

but Chewey is right, its pointless to argue with a child. So thats the last i want to talk about it.

Mangled Poly
06-22-2003, 05:49 AM
I use lightwave but im trying to get the hang of maya personally if i had the choice i would have taken the maya route... I love lightwave but i think maya has more to offer in more industries..

SplineGod
06-22-2003, 08:10 AM
Im starting to learn to avoid these types of threads.
I see people point out what they see as problems in some piece of software. Comments range from Renderer is slow or doesnt work well or Renderer X is better and the bottom line is for every negative post from one end user I see another disagree with it.
Some say Mental Ray is faster and I work with some very experienced ppl who disagree. Some say Lightwaves character tools arent good and I say they are good and Ive used them in some very high pressure situations. I think that percieved difficiencies can be looked at in one of 3 ways:
1. Product MAY have an actual problem
2. Person using product is basing opinion on very specific situations.
3. Person doesnt know software as well as they think.
I think the best advice is what several ppl have said; get the software and try it out.

Howzat
06-22-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Im starting to learn to avoid these types of threads.

looks like you've still got a bit of learning to do Larry! :thumbsup:

leigh
06-22-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by E=mc˛
Yeah like you know every single thing i do in my life hunn ? ... IM NOT MARIED... so step on your own bees wax.

RELAX GEEZ...

E=mc˛, please, don't post any more completely irrelevant comments in this thread. I think that iBlue had a good point when he said that a person shouldn't make recommendations when they are not familiar with all the options, and your personal remarks back to him are unnecessary.

iBlue has already said that he will no longer mention the issue, so kindly refrain from doing so yourself as well please.

Thanks.

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