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kurv
06-20-2003, 04:24 AM
Okay folks, BE KIND... This is my very first attempt at a model, it is not supposed to be spectacular, and this is 30 minutes into it...

You guys asked to see my work once I got using LW, so here you go...

I am not sure how much further this will go quickly...but I will work on it more.

:D

kurv
06-20-2003, 04:30 AM
Here we go...

http://www.nortex.com/lw/death_glider.jpg

ToiletDuck
06-20-2003, 04:37 AM
Looks good to me :) I'm waiting on my lightwave book so I can start. I have not used CGf programs before so i need the book lol.

kurv
06-20-2003, 04:44 AM
Thanks ToiletDuck, here was my first model I saved before I worked more on the nose, wings and the cockpit...

http://www.nortex.com/lw/dg1_front.jpg

http://www.nortex.com/lw/dg1_side.jpg

ToiletDuck
06-20-2003, 04:57 AM
all i want to do is make a lifelike looking something. Like a picture on the wall. Don't care if it takes all day to render. It would be nice.

kurv
06-20-2003, 05:03 AM
Do you have any CG software at all..? you know you can DL a demo version of LightWave right..?

kurv
06-20-2003, 06:15 AM
Okay, going to bed, but here is more work after some responces from Leigh and Nick (privatley)...

http://www.nortex.com/lw/dg3_side.jpg

Howzat
06-20-2003, 11:41 AM
looks like a good start to me :thumbsup:
I can't recall what they are supposed to look like... Can you Post some of your reference images please?

aurora
06-20-2003, 01:21 PM
Nice cleanup in that last image. And with tips from leigh then I can't wait to see this baby textured. Please keep them coming!:applause:

kurv
06-20-2003, 01:45 PM
Well see we captured two origional death gliders and built a hybred version called the X-301. The X-301 is a larger, two man craft. So I decide to make a human version of the origional death glider, a hybred built to be faster and more nimble that the origional.

Origional Death Glider
http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_1.jpg
http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_2.jpg
http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_3.jpg

Hybred two man craft, X-301
http://www.nortex.com/lw/X301_1.jpg
http://www.nortex.com/lw/X301_3.jpg

New Hybred one man craft
http://www.nortex.com/lw/ADG_1.jpg
http://www.nortex.com/lw/ADG_2.jpg
http://www.nortex.com/lw/ADG_3.jpg

kurv
06-20-2003, 01:52 PM
Howzat, aurora, thanks!!

I posted my references, I really was not trying to mimic them except for the wing design.

I know this is extremely crude but I want to use it to lean now how to make the details on the body and wings :)

Thanks for the encouragement.

ToiletDuck
06-20-2003, 04:50 PM
Are you making this for any special reason or just to create it?

kurv
06-20-2003, 05:13 PM
Just to creat it... I am trying to learn LW in my spare time :) and wanted to make something as a starting project.

Did you see my post about DL the software..?

ToiletDuck
06-20-2003, 05:16 PM
no i did not.

ToiletDuck
06-20-2003, 05:25 PM
What is woodware publishing btw?

kurv
06-20-2003, 05:27 PM
I think you can DL it...I thouht I saw a link at one time but here is a link to order it FREE...

http://www.newtek.com/discovery.html

dark_lotus
06-20-2003, 05:58 PM
WOOOOO!

You're off to a superb start there! For space ships I highly recommend Spline Patching, it will give you greater control over the overall shapes of the craft.

kurv
06-20-2003, 06:11 PM
Thanks dark_lotus!!

I will look into that more...

I think people who have bad things to say are just not posting... :)

Come one folks when I said to be kind I did not mean to not post ;)

Let me know what you think of this as a first round model at about 30 minutes of work...

Thanks!!

Steve Warner
06-20-2003, 11:34 PM
Well, for 30-minutes worth of work, that's pretty darn cool! And I'm now officially mad at Leigh and Nick for keeping their secrets private. :shame: Whatever they told you, it worked like a charm! :D Are you planning on adding the details in the model or in the texture?

Keep up the great work, Wes!

kurv
06-20-2003, 11:54 PM
I think I want to add the details to the model, wouldn't that allow for more flexibility later in the project..?

Thanks Steve!!

I appreciate the help here folks!!!

webfox
06-21-2003, 12:12 AM
Your model has a definite coolness factor working for it, but it doesn't seem to be taken from the same technology as your reference material. There are no air intakes nor thrusters involved in the Stargate(?) glider. Also, the canopy for the SG vehicles look slapped on, rather than an organic part of the whole, which you have achieved in your model.

Yours reminds me more of the Delta Flyer from ST:Voyager crossed with Buck Rogers' shuttle, with a little Battlestar Galactica thrown in.

That's not a bad thing.

Keep at it and share what you've done. :thumbsup:

ToiletDuck
06-21-2003, 12:23 AM
Really? I was seeing more of a StarWars transporter that the emperor arrived in.

kretin
06-21-2003, 12:57 AM
I think people who have bad things to say are just not posting... :)

Come one folks when I said to be kind I did not mean to not post ;)
Man this is crap. I mean really... I'm offended that you would even post such rubbish :shame:

Lol :p

But seriously... I'd like to see a wireframe shaded version before commenting. It'll be easier to offer useful advice if I can see where your polys are at.

Steve Warner
06-21-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by wordwarepub
I think I want to add the details to the model, wouldn't that allow for more flexibility later in the project..?

Not necessarily. The more details you model, the more complex your object becomes. And that in turn makes it more challenging to modify. It also eats up more render time, especially with subpatch models. Take a look at this hand:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/BOB/hand-arm.gif

The veins were modeled as part of the object. It was fun to do, but I probably could have gotten comparable results using bump and/or displacement maps. And creating the texture maps probably would have been faster than running lots of tiny lines up and down the model with the Edge Tools plugin. :rolleyes:

Think about it like this: A good makeup artist can change the appearance of an actor's face just by adding the right amount of shading here and there. But to physically change the appearance of the actor's face would require plastic surgery. The same is true with your models. A killer texture map can really change the way your model looks. And if you don't like it, just wipe the texture off and start again. But if you add details by physically altering the model, you're pretty much stuck with them.

If this is your first model, I'd probably refine the shape and add the details in with textures. But if you're in it just for the sheer joy of modeling, by all means, detail away! :D

Hope this helps!

Steve

pblacklock
06-21-2003, 02:28 AM
there's a tut i would love to see, that forearm is really awesome, get some red blood pumping and swirling from side to side underneath a pale green texture, heck i feel a nightmare coming tonight.

can we see a wireframe for that cool arm

thanks

@;@

kurv
06-22-2003, 11:01 PM
Kretin, thanks here are some wire frames...

http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_WIRE_1.jpg
http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_WIRE_2.jpg

Steve, good point, I will have to do some reading on this to do this right...

dark_lotus, thanks, once I figure out what that is I will put it into good use.

webfox, it is an advanced Death Glider I really was trying to make a space craft, then it was turning into a death glider looking ...thing.. But I think you are right it is looking more, Battlestar Galactica...

I really did not have a drawing I was working from, just freehand modeling.

Thanks everyone.

I do see a lot of issues with the model, some pinching as Leigh pointed out and when I made the wire frame for Kretin I see some warped polys...

I have a lot to fix yet.

Any help someone can give in regards to the pinching on the intakes would be appreciated. Nicholas told me over the phone what the problem was but I do not know all the terminology yet, sorry Nick :)...

But I am learning!!

leigh
06-22-2003, 11:34 PM
Hehehe I was wondering how this was coming along...

Okay, there are a couple of immediate things that need to be looked at. The first is that the fin and the wings should really have some more polys to help define them a little better. Try using the Knife tool or Bandsaw to do that.

Secondly, the front of the glider has some problems with it's polys. I'm not really sure how to describe it other than that they are being dragged... Again, you might need to add more polys here, and arrange them as I have indicated in green so that they flow better.

At the base of the cockpit area, select the polys and use Bandsaw to divide them as I have shown with the dotted blue line. That will give the edges of the cockpit more definition (if indeed that is the cockpit area :p).

The upper wing area that I have circled in red needs more polys to prevent it from pinching like that as well. You might actually have to go and remake that area though, as fixing it with the Knife tool would be a little tricky.

I've indicated in yellow a better flow for your polys... not sure how easy it will be to get them like that though. Having them flow like this will avoid pinching and will help to give it better definition :)

Shade01
06-22-2003, 11:53 PM
Man, that looks tons better than my first model in Lightwave, which is downright embarassing! Keep up the work, I want to see it finished!

EvilE
06-22-2003, 11:56 PM
Nice start :) You should center the model by pressing f2 then select all the point in the mid of the object then detail set value x 0 to center them on the x axis .

ToiletDuck
06-23-2003, 12:25 AM
@EvilE..... Do you really run the EvilE distro?

webfox
06-23-2003, 01:29 AM
http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_WIRE_2.jpg

Ooops... someone hasn't been using symmetry mode.

(just pickin')

;)

kretin
06-23-2003, 03:55 AM
Hey Wes,

Leigh's points are great. I've shown here the flow of polys that will help the pinching at the air intakes...

http://www.zerogravity.com.au/temp/DG_WIRE_1over.jpg

kurv
06-23-2003, 02:08 PM
Thanks everyone!!!!!!

I am working on the pinching on the intakes. I think I got the polys straight now and I have cut the cockpit as leigh said...

But I am still working on the other things leigh and you others have said. I need to learn more of the tools.

I will keep you informed though.

Next I want to start adding things to the body, rivets, lines, etc to give it some detail. Also I want to straighten the wing tips…I am not sure how to do that…but I will; figure it out.

I think it is looking very cool…

Steve Warner
06-23-2003, 03:52 PM
Keep up the great work, Wes! This is head and shoulders above my first model. :beer:

kurv
06-23-2003, 04:10 PM
Well thanks Steve, coming from you that’s awesome!!!

I think I am going to have to put this on hold until I read more of the books I have... I am reaching a point where I do not understand what folks here are telling me and I do not want to ask stupid questions, especially when I have resources here to read...

So thanks for all the advice everyone!!! I will post my last changes to the model and start reading more about how to do what you guys said...

Everyone who replied, thanks!!! I sincerely appreciate it!!

kurv
06-23-2003, 04:14 PM
http://www.nortex.com/lw/DG_6-23.jpg

On to read more.....

Thanks!!!!!

EvilE
06-23-2003, 04:58 PM
ToiletDuck wrote :Do you really run the EvilE distro

What ???

Steve Warner
06-23-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by wordwarepub
I do not want to ask stupid questions, especially when I have resources here to read...
Many of us have the resources, but often times those resources don't describe the process in terms we understand. That's what makes a place like this so great! You can ask the question in your own words. In a way that make sense to you. And when we understand where you're coming from, we can try to meet you where you're at. To answer in terms that you will understand.

Don't stop asking questions just because you think they're not warranted or are stupid. I lurked on this forum for about 7 months before ever feeling comfortable posting a question. And I know that there are others out there who are watching this thread develop. They are struggling through the same issues and are benefitting from the collective replies.

Along a slightly different line, I've been meaning to comment on the nature of your approach. You have said that you're not using any reference materials and that you're just modeling as you go. That's a really difficult thing to do, especially when you're still learning the toolset. The fact that you've come this far on imagination alone is a real achievement. I don't mean that facetiously. It's amazing what the eye sees and what the brain remembers. They're often not the same thing. That's why it's really helpful to have a reference drawing to work from. It keeps you on track as you go. I'm rambling know, but I just want to encourage you. Modeling without a reference is tough, and it takes a lot of talent and practice to be able to do so. So don't get discouraged.

Anyway, I'll be looking forward to seeing this develop! Keep up the great work and don't hesitate to ask if you have questions.

Cheers!

Steve

webfox
06-23-2003, 05:34 PM
Wes, don't forget that this is a solid, inflexible object. You can add objects to it, rather than try to keep it one continuous surface. The canopy can be a seperate object or layer, the intakes can be another object, the thrusters another, etc... Not every part of it has to be subD surfaces, either. LW will keep track of which parts are subdivided and which aren't.

Don't impose limitations on yourself that aren't really there.

kurv
06-23-2003, 05:40 PM
Well thanks Steve, I did not think of it that way.. I just do not want to ask questions that are going to tick people off because they are so basic... I have a lot of clean up to do on the model and can not seem to get it done. Then on top of that one person (sorry I can not remember your name, ahh..) said the poly lines should not be curved as they are... I have no idea how to fix that... I was feeling like due to bad modeling tactics it might be a loss. But I wanted to read more about modeling basics to see for myself.

Then the pinched areas... Leigh gave me some great advice (thanks Leigh) but I tried doing what she said and it made some of my polys invisible. I do understand what that means as I have some desktop images videos and I have covered how polys have one side and can only be viewed from that side. But fixing that in this model is a whole other issue :) Also I mentioned to Nicholas Boughen about the polys going invisible and he told me all about it, but I did not understand what he was saying...I did not have the heart to tell him after his explanation that it went completely over my head, I felt the breeze though as it zipped over :) (sorry Nick)

So...

I felt like I was doing one of two things maybe both...

1. Starting off with a model that need to be fixed first before doing some of these things people are talking about...or
2. really needing to understand more about polys and sub d before continuing on modeling it.

But you bring up a good point, if their are people out their watching this thread to learn...then it might be good to post these questions...

So those of you who do not have time for stupid questions…ignore this thread..okay.. :)

While I have resources I am short on time here, as I know a lot of you are too...

Those of you who do, give a brother some help okay…I am still learning. And for those of you who are just watching this ands learning, for Gods sake, post, speak up!! :beer:

Thanks again Steve, et all...

Steve Warner
06-23-2003, 05:57 PM
Hey Wes, can you post a picture of that ship without sub-d's? Or better yet, are you comfortable posting the file so I can take a better look at it?

EvilE
06-23-2003, 06:42 PM
I dunnot know how your problem exactly looks so this may be the wrong solution but with the f(flip) key you can flip the normals of the selected polys

Hope it helps

EE

kurv
06-23-2003, 06:44 PM
Thanks webfox!!

Thats a good point and I am working on getting it setup that way. Thanks for your comments!!! Still working on it.. :)

kurv
06-23-2003, 06:45 PM
Hmmmm thanks EE!!!!

Trying that now...

kurv
06-23-2003, 08:07 PM
Sure Steve..

Now let me say, if I see this in the next episode of Stargate SG1 NICK...I will be flying to Canada and comign after you!!!

Here ya go...

Thanks for everyones help on this...!!

www.nortex.com/lw/Death_Glider-3.lwo

Steve Warner
06-23-2003, 10:52 PM
Ok, I didn't have much time to work on this, but here's my take:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/WesHelp.gif

I only worked the right side of the ship, but here's the object.

Wes's Death Glider (http://www.trinitymediainc.com/Help/Death-ship.lwo)
(right click and save as)

Each layer represents a progressive step forward.

Sorry for the lack of details, but I hope this helps!

Steve

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