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samartin
06-19-2003, 01:21 PM
Well I've just finished up watching the 20 min 600mb puppy and I am so excited by this. Now I know they used SI/XSI to produce this game and when I heard this I thought so what :shrug:

There was another post a day or two ago now which allows for these kinda shaders to be shown in realtime in SI/XSI, I mean now I understand why they use SI/XSI. The reason for writing this I know, LW8 blah blah blah, but this would be such a strong point in my eyes that LW8 was to go down this route, what are your thoughts on this kinda technology ???

Rendering seems to be turning or will be soon a thing of the past IMHO...

paul k.
06-19-2003, 08:09 PM
Howard M hooked me up with the HalfLife Demo and it is unbelievable. I don't think people who havn't seen it will believe what it really is like until they experience it. I think rendering will always be a problem when you are actually lighting and asking for raytracing or radiosity. However games have come a very long way and as processor power, and graphics cards keep improving I think it will only get better. Thats for sure!

samartin
06-19-2003, 08:19 PM
This is where my concern lies with new versions of LW, I get the impression that if you program a water surface with animatable parameters within XSI surface editor it will update in realtime in the viewport, and everything behind that reacts in the way it should...

I think this due to the fact that HL2 was created with it, so Valve have been working on these programmable shaders and now it's available as a bolt on to XSI...

I could however be mis-reading what I read the other day ??? If anyone could clarify this it would be much appreciated...

Infinity3d4life
06-19-2003, 08:24 PM
Any place to download it??

Mattoo
06-19-2003, 08:29 PM
This kind of DirectX support has been in 3DSMAX for a good few years now (since version 4 I think).
I don't think it goes as far as pixel and vertex shaders but it's had support upto DirectX 7's features - which is not too shabby.

I never had the opportunity to try it in production but the demos I saw of MAX using this were quite impressive. The new shader types available in DX8 and 9 are more impressive but what I'm saying is - this type of thing has been available for some time.

I do remember there was some discussion about a year ago that Luxology (sorry, that word again :( ) were hiring programmers experienced in realtime 3D engines......

Anything else would be idle speculation so I'll stop there. ;)

samartin
06-19-2003, 08:32 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69113

try various links in here, massive file tho' but well recommended as you will be blown away by it...

I am looking for the link about realtime shaders, I think I saw it on 3dFestival but it's down at the mo' :hmppph:

Cman
06-19-2003, 09:11 PM
It's the dynamics engine that trips me out!
Everything, and it looks like EVERYTHING, can be tossed around, broken up and shot - and everything has their own defined physical properties! It's awesome...

My jaw dropped when the car - getting shot up at the end - started moving from the rounds! :drool:

Miyazaki
06-20-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by Cman
It's the dynamics engine that trips me out!
Everything, and it looks like EVERYTHING, can be tossed around, broken up and shot - and everything has their own defined physical properties! It's awesome...

My jaw dropped when the car - getting shot up at the end - started moving from the rounds! :drool:
Yes, that`s impressive. I hope that we`ll see such things in other future games, too. Deus Ex2:love: will aso have a nice physical engine.

ThE_JacO
06-20-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by samartin

I think this due to the fact that HL2 was created with it, so Valve have been working on these programmable shaders and now it's available as a bolt on to XSI...


it's the other way around, Valve chose to switch to XSI because it provided realt-time shaders capabilities.

it works like this:
you have the rendertree (that is a nodebased shader creation tool) where materials have several inputs (surface, photons etc.) one of wich is the realtime shaders input.
into this input you can connect nodes that will call straight away the videocard and inbetween layers capabilities.
this means you can stuff in and control redraw nodes, shading nodes, textures nodes (including reflections, alphas, blendings etc.) and complement all those with the XSI's standard libraries.

to bring it one step further you can call some particular nodes that allow for code prototyping straight away inside XSI, from matrices setup to vertex and pixel shading.

the above is true for both openGL and directX, each of both has its own nodes and will get displayed in a WYSIWYG fashion in any viewport (floating or docked) that you set to RTS.

we could go on about how this works with nVIDIA's CGlanguage (allowing to preview and prototype fully functional realtime HDRI, shadowmaps, radiosity, raytraced reflections and so on inside a viewport) and with other stuff as well (DX9, clients' custom engine and tools etc.), but it'd take a while.

also, as a consequence of the above, you get the PDKs (platform development kits) wich allow some nifty tricks like hooking a Xbox directly to XSI, with that you can preview anything contained in a viewport moving it with the Xbox HW and seeing on a TV how the console handles it (I don't think there's any other PDK around doing this).


I could however be mis-reading what I read the other day ??? If anyone could clarify this it would be much appreciated... [/B]

k, I'v gone way far into blowing the SI horn in a non XSI forum, but I felt it was the case to clarify a bit how things worked :)
I hope this wasn't out of place.

best regards

edit:
P.S. XSI does this since 2 years now, IE the first betas of ibiza (v2)

P.P.S. v 3.5 already DOES take advantage of the videocard GPU for rendering (and I mean rendering with MRay not with openGL :) ), you can switch to HW accelerated mode at anytime in the rendering panel to take advantage of the GPU for that stuff at wich those are faster then x86 CPUs (will take care of maps, Zsorting and other stuff).
in some crowd scenes we use for demos this gets rendertimes down from 49 to 18 seconds per frame.

Cman
06-20-2003, 02:13 AM
All that's probably why XSI's so damned expensive! :surprised

Triple G
06-20-2003, 04:06 AM
I, for one, would love to see the implementation of realtime pixel/vertex shaders in Lightwave. Even though I'm on a Mac, so I probably wouldn't be able to take advantage of it...it's still technology that I think would definitely help Lightwave continue making inroads in the game development community. (Besides...I'll be getting a PC soon enough... :wavey: )

samartin
06-20-2003, 07:59 AM
Thanx JacO, I'm glad someone who used XSI piped up as I really do think this is the only way to go, I for one hate rendering, I am sooo impatient and all future consoles are not gonna have pre-rendered scenes no-more... Downloading demo version of XSI :drool:

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