Is this place getting too serious?

[ndat]

Before what you saw he made a "joke", or lie which made an already tense situation even tenser. So he was kinda in the craper when he made another joke so close to the other one. I wouldnt say this is an elitist club, if you need proof just look at my work (not so elite :D).

[modestmouse]

ya when you make two jokes in one or two days it doesnt sound like you are actually a real user, but just some spammer that clogs the boards and it seems better not to have people like that in the board.

[Scott M C4D]

Hiya,
I am a new member but i have been a forum user from different places. From www.computermusic.co.uk forum , www.reasonstation.net forums to computer graphic sites like www.3DBuzz.com www.renderosity.com and other forums which is nearly 3 years now so i know abit about how these places work.

My first impression from how i see this place is that there are alot of talented artists on here who take pride and place in this expanding community and do take what they do seriously.
It's qute natural considering that Cinema 4D has always been one of the most underated 3D apps in the last 10 years and inferior to other apps like lightwave Maya, Max ect... but that's changing as more people realise that you don't have to spend nearly 2 grand on a 3D app any more to get similar results.
Cinema 4D has a loyal following from way back and just like the Amiga days of the 80's and 90's so why should Cinema 4D be left on the sideline while all the other 3dS max forums ect be having all the cake ?
About time Cinema 4D was taken seriously and if that means this place being all elitest as you put it then that can only be a good thing but i don't think it really is tho.
If you want to have a laugh and joke then fair enough(there are other places for this tho) but don't come back expecting everyone to join in and pat you on the back.

We are all here to learn anyway,regardless of ability.

[LucentDreams]

Okay I see where your coming from, and hey I let all the fun threads and a lot of the joke threads go. I grona sometimes at some of these things I think are a little \to cheesy personally, ubt I don't interfere. I jumped in n this one, as its a more common issue then you think, as I said before there was a really hot perios where quite a few 2D artists were getting accused of paintovers and photo manipulations, simply because one or two were, and others were posting amazing photoreal paintings, you don't really want to keep posting here when everypost you make is challenged unfairly/ it also happens a fair bit. Here is the car one I refered to when I closed the caustic thread.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=454824#post454824

you'll note it was closed as well. both that car and this caustic thread were reported to mods, so its not just the mods not liking it.

Also some people just like to make bad jokes, it wasn't all that funny to many, and the same day, the same poster (mimo8) did a post in that free XL thread about winning it and recieving it already, mislead everyone else being considered, confused Ila at first too, and really wasn't all that funny. look through that thread you'll see JamesMK disappointed, then feeling stupid for falling for it, before he himself got announced as the lucky guy who gets a free copy of XL. What was the point of that?

oh and another example of this kind of thing being and issue:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=537321#post537321

[DELTAadmin]

I totally agree with Kaiskai

If it is a user forum, it serves for showing user created imagery, and not user cheated imagery.

Anyway, just think it through what light would it cast to this brilliant software, if it were advertised by us with cheated photos?

Cinema doesn't need to resolve to this kind of heralding, it stands for itself in its beauty, ellegancy, mature results...

[DELTAadmin]

„resolve” wanted to be „resort”

[Spearhead]

my opinion as a new member:

i feel a joke or a pun is always welcomed and well intended, but as mentioned before misleading people isnt that cool even in the simplest of ways.

i think he put his foot in it in the free c4d thread because many people were probably very hopeful on getting that package.

@mimo8 pls consider if what you post will be relevant to the thread and/or forum before you post it. as you see a few words can create the hardest of feelings, even if no harm was intended.

there are irc channels for leisury talk, lets keep the threads as concise and to-fact as possible.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by twilight
I was reading the thread about that non-CG vase, that was actualy a photo, and i don't get it... why was it closed? What's so wrong about that?
In fact there were some people inspired by that photo that are willing to try and recreate it in C4D!

This place used to be a nice 3D community, people helped each other and it was one of my main resources about C4D.
But now... how can i put it? there's a lot of RTFM and that sort of attitude. This place is becoming more and more elitist (although people still help each other!)

I've seen it happen in other places. What once was a great community for everyone is now a members only club.
I'd hate to see that happen in here. I understand that a lot of people put a lot of work into this to make it work and i really appreciate that. I'm not a C4D guru but i try to help whenever i can, and i think the same goes to everyone.
Everybody had to start at some point, not all of us were born genious.

My point is: keep a positive attitude and let's make this place a better place for everybody.
There's no harm in laughing from time to time... otherwise we might go insane. I know i would.

Sorry for the long thread and i hope you understand this as constructive criticism, which is exactly what this is.

Keep it up!



:beer:



This place is not for joking 2 times in a day or asking how to make a sphere. I want it to grow, expand and to be of some use for people who really want to learn the software and improve their skills. I have to say the C4D forum is the less elitist of the bunch, there are a lot of simple questions we responded, try asking how to make a wireframe render in the Softimage or Maya forum, you'll end with a "rtfm as we did, you moron". Professional is different from elitist. We have to try keeping this place on a serious level, otherwise nobody will learn anything and will waste its time here.

[squidinc]

I agree with thirdeye, this place aint for asking incredibly basic questions that are explained withing the first two pages of the manual or tutorial book, I think people respond badly because they're tired of seeing the same questions over and over, and because it gives the impression that the person asking just can't be arsed looking it up themselves in manual, I mean the PDF is even searchable, what could be easier??? :shrug:

[LucentDreams]

yes thirdeye and squid do bring up one issue, the RTFM situation you mentioned is not entirely bad. I mean asking things like how do I output a movie get a wireframe add a point, are all in the manual and are not difficult to find. You will find on othe C4D forums the same opinion on a lot of these questions will be the same. The other thing is the search function. For a while there we were getting one post a week about cartoon or cel shaded effects, or npr. If peopl searched sometimes they'd find bettter answers then what little is repeated.

Its interesting this issue has come up, a similar one has been brought up regarding xpose. Do remember this is a professional forum. This doesnot mean you have to be a professional artist to post here, but it is expected you act professional, and if you are not a pro the idea is to work and learn. We of course want to encourage fun and not discourage people posting, but replies to WIP threads with :beer: :love: :bounce: :thumbsup: :buttrock: is not a critique. A lot fo people comlain about fanboys, and I personally agree, posting a photo claiming you did it, and then saying Ha got you, is not professional. A thread asking how old oyu are, how long you've been doing 3d, where you get inspiration from hey I'm all for them.

Another thing I"d like to adress specific to the C4D forum (I dont' care what happens in the other software specific forums, thats up to their mods) But I really like to encourage everyone to be active with the whole community. I've seena lot of hardware questions that aren't necessarily C4D specific. They will still get answerred here, but I'd like to keep this thread to getting to know C4d users specifically, and help each other out with C4D questions, there is a hardware forum where answers would probably me more accurate and inciteful typically. Same with the WIP and finished gallery, I think our stick thread is working great for that, you click on theat thred and you instanly have a bunch of links to fantastic pieces of C4d work with tonnes of replies because its shared with the entire community.

[artemesia66]

Originally posted by twilight
I was reading the thread about that non-CG vase, that was actualy a photo, and i don't get it... why was it closed? What's so wrong about that?
In fact there were some people inspired by that photo that are willing to try and recreate it in C4D!

I think the problem is the way it was presented. The photo is a very cool example of photographed caustics. If it had been put up as an honest challenge to forum users to see if the could match it in CG, it would likely have spawned a long and interesting thread about how caustics work and how they are best emulated in C4D. Because it was posted as a "joke", it only annoyed many people by making them feel foolish and like their time was being wasted.

[twilight]

ehehehehe, what a wake up call, huh?

Ok, i tend to agree with all of you but i still think we could be a bit more receptive towards newcomers and not so professional members.
The reason why we get more and more basic questions about C4D it's because C4D is growing in both popularity and recognition! We're no longer a small community.
Now, if you'd start to use C4D today where would you go to get help? Postforum, Renderosity and CGTalk... no wonder we get stupid questions everyday.
But if 2 out of 10 members who post stupid questions become pro C4D users... that can't be bad!

I understand this is a professional forum, but that also means we should keep a pro and humble attitude and not throw away people just because they post a stupid question. Just because i've answered a question 100 times doesn't mean the next guy who downloads the demo will know about it...
It happened to me, to post a stupid question once or twice (or more...), but i also find myself answering to those same questions now.

About the fake or photo... i get your point and i agree that it should've been posted with a different approach.

One final remark: THIS PLACE ROCKS!!!

:bounce:

[JoelOtron]

Originally posted by Kaiskai
Iaseena lot of hardware questions that aren't necessarily C4D specific. They will still get answerred here, but I'd like to keep this thread to getting to know C4d users specifically, and help each other out with C4D questions, there is a hardware forum where answers would probably me more accurate and inciteful typically. Same with the WIP and finished gallery, I think our stick thread is working great for that, you click on theat thred and you instanly have a bunch of links to fantastic pieces of C4d work with tonnes of replies because its shared with the entire community.

Hi Kai

My issue with posting in other galleries, is that first of all, I feel a sense of community here and would rather bounce things off the people I know and am comfortable with. And second, I'm pretty busy most of the time, so I "try" to keep thee number of forums I'm involved with to a minimum. This forum is one-stop-shopping for me. If I now have to monitor 3 other forums, thats a bit much for me. So consider that as an issue to why some of us (me at least) prefer to hang out in this clubhouse, so to speak.

Also, in light of some of the other forums we all know and love, I very much enjoy the commeraderie and lightheartedness found here. I enjoy the "who are we" threads and the c4d exclusive WIPs. I hope things dont become too serious here. Fun is a good thing too, and can inspire creativity. I dont refer to the post in question, but more a general preference for the style of this forum.

[trescool]

In answer to the question : Is this place getting too serious?
No . I am a frequenter and gleam great info from the forum. In fact it was this forum that swung my decision to buy C4D over other apps. But the spirit of the post was not humor, not when taken in context of his other posts. The post was intended to irritate C4D users, it did me.

Keep it serious but lets have a sense of humor.

[AdamT]

I don't think it's getting too serious. Let's just remember there's a difference between a joke and a trick. If there's any doubt that your joke might be taken seriously, just add something like "(joking!)" to make it clear. If adding such a tag would ruin the fun, then you're probably tricking and not joking--in case you don't see the distinction.

Moderation can be tricky and I prefer a very lighthanded approach, but PF is an example of how things can go downhill fast if there's no moderation at all.

[leigh]

It was this sort of thing that promted Leonard, Tito and myself to put together the CG Talk Policy that you can read by clicking on the Policy button on the CG Talk navigation bar.

Sure, jokes can be funny sometimes, but when people post junk like photos that they are pretending are renders, then they must expect that the thread will be closed. This is a professional forum - yes, not everyone here is a professional user (in fact, probably most of the members on CG Talk are not), however, the important thing is to maintain a professional attitude and that means no stupid, misleading/false threads. They are a waste of server use, storage space, and mods time.

A couple of forums here on CG Talk have become overrun lately by squabbling, pointless threads and other sundry trash, and we mods have decided that enough is enough. If people want to monkey around, they must go do it elsewhere. It sucks to have to act like a kindergarten teacher on this forum, so please don't make our lives difficult.

CG Talk has a reputation and a standard to uphold. We are not here to facilitate freedom of speech or to allow childness threads and users to run rampant.

If people want to view the mods stance on pointless threads as being "too serious" then they need to be reminded that CG Talk is here to cater to serious CG artists, not kids.

So please people, let's keep a professional attitude and please respect our reasons for moderating CG Talk the way we do.

[xeno]

I couldnt agree more!

Also, i just have to agree to Thirdeye's point about the other forums, where relatively basic questions get a rtfm and a "nice" bonus. It made me wonder tho..how come that in our Cinema forum, things like that dont happen?
Is it perhaps becoz cinema is a relatively small package? compared to xsi/lightwave/maya?

Anyway, if this question was redundant, just ignore it :)

[AdamT]

how come that in our Cinema forum, things like that dont happen?
RTFM.

[joking:p ]

[LucentDreams]

I"m not about to stop the WHere'd you start cg kinds of threads guys, it does help build comunity. and I'm not going to stop you fromposting only in this section. THats why I set up the WIP thread, its not essential that you post in the WIP gallery only and then put a thread up, its a suggestion for people to join a larger community then just the c4d world.

You can keep your WIP's here and such, but also consider that if you get your work out there you can build up other contacts. Need to do a job that uses XSI and you only use C4D. Well work withsomeone you know who uses XSI, Thing is if you stick here you won't know them.

Don't think of this as taking out the fun, but we will now start to moderate funa little more. Another prime example is the cgtalk show your picture thread. Started out in fun. On page 500 and something (one huge thread) Issues with racism and really offensive joks start popping up and the whole thread has become a horrible abuse of the idea. And thats a thread we dont' want to have to delete since so many more serious peopls used it to introduce themselves and share a photo.

So have fun but be mature about it, even a fifteen yearold should know how to be responsible for their actions and be serious about learning.

I understand about what your saying with new mebers to the C4D section, Twilight. But read most of the posts asking for manuals. How many of them say "Hi I'm so and so, I just got the demo, and am having a little trouble starting, is there a manual I can get to help me figure things out?" If you reread most of them they are things like "Uhm my friend moved and I left me his C4D but I don't have the manual" right I buy a $600- $2000 dollar app and then just leave it behind when I move? I mean the box is heavy and all but seriously. And if he did have a firend that moved, they didn't legally transfer over the license, so its still not a legal copy, so a reply saying contact maxon support is a valid one. And how many times have people said to read the maual. When I started learning, I found postforums links on maxon's site. So I started at postforum. But I didn't ask things like how do I create a point. And heck I was a a guy who honestly did only two fo the maxon tuts, and they were both for V6 (the sun using volumetric lights, and the hypernurbs tap) But I went through that manual almsot as if it was a novel. I started with 5.3 where I used ALT tab to switch between PDF manual and my app, XL 6 came out at the start of summer I think, just got my dual display finally, so manual on one screen, XL 6 demo on the other. I never had a teacher teach me how to use the material system in C4d, I taught my teacher, we had 5.3 sitting on the computers never being used. The only reason we got XL 6 was because I showed my teacher at the start of the year, jsut what I could do in that app compared to strata, and the very difficult to learn mirai) (and by difficult to learn I mean once you leanred an app like C4D or strata or maya even, mirai works very differently, its mostly the workflow and interface thats hard to learn unless you only learn mirai at first) So I do remember what is was like for me, my questions back in the day, were things like "I'm trying to figure out how to do water pouring out of a bottle, I've been trying particles, but the deflectors being straight only makes it hard to control in a round bottle, any ideas as to a better way (granted somehoew I spelt this sentence properlly which is rare for me, I likely had spelling mistakes back then too)" The eventual solution I got thanks to some help was an animate sweep with a cool animated texture that made it look as though water was in fact pouring out of the bottle. Granted if you ooped the animatin, the bottle poured forever and the glass never overflowed. But its a problem soolving question, not a sorry can't perform a earch in acrobat how do I do this.


But please keep voicing concerns in the thread, I'm interested to hear them all, dont' take this as a "your wrong do it my way" kind of thing, I don't want to have to moderate more then I already am, but we also don't want a forum that gets into a situation like the LW forum jsut recently, where Tito had to step in because of things like leigh mentioned with squabbling. For a short while we had a fair bit of app wars and such too. WE all hate moderation I know, but thing is do we want another postforum and Dan on our hands?

[twilight]

how come that in our Cinema forum, things like that dont happen?
actualy there's a simple answer to that: they do!


CG Talk has a reputation and a standard to uphold. We are not here to facilitate freedom of speech or to allow childness threads and users to run rampant.

If people want to view the mods stance on pointless threads as being "too serious" then they need to be reminded that CG Talk is here to cater to serious CG artists, not kids.
Take it easy leigh... it's all about learning from each other, not about a CG police.
There's no doubt you guys are doing a great job. This is THE place to talk CG! Kudos to that.

Maybe i'm now also guilty of freedom of speech...

[twilight]

@Kay

I saw your post only after my last reply.
I'm 100% with you on this one! I've also learned C4D on my own and i do a million searches before asking someone or somewhere... but something inside me stops me from throwing 'RTFM' to someone...
Maybe it's because i've used 3dsmax for such a long time. Discreet's attitude is the worst i've ever seen and 3dsmax users have an even worst attitude, maybe because they were once seen as the 'most cracked software' users or the 'low end gaming software' users...
When i started with C4D it was a small program that few people took seriously but that small community was united and humble.
Now that C4D is getting bigger and bigger i'd hate to see that kind of 'discreet' attitude in here...

I hope you guys understand that.
:beer:

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