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EvilE
06-18-2003, 10:19 PM
Is there a plugin avail or is it somehow in layout possible to group endomorphs together to build new endomorphs ? I am thinking about writing a plugin for this but dont wanna reinvent the wheel. What i am thinking of is that i would be able to model very basic morphs and then combine them together in layout to get higher level controls while still being able to tweak every lowlevel morph.( i hope this was understandable because my english is not the best )

EE

wgreenlee1
06-18-2003, 10:52 PM
In Layout can you "Save Object as" then use that as a New Morph in Modeler?

Mike RB
06-18-2003, 11:00 PM
there is a save endo option,

kretin
06-18-2003, 11:10 PM
I "think" that MorphMapMixer from DStorm is what you're looking for.... but that's in Modeler.

mjm
06-18-2003, 11:19 PM
I was going to say the same as kretin, but after re-reading your post, it seems that you want to actually put them in groups. Ie, have a master pose, and then modify that pose slightly?

Such as:

"Sad" at 100%

->Eye Down 75%
->Eye Up %2
->etc

So sort of like a hierarchial endo mixer?

Just trying to clarify what you're asking :)

EvilE
06-19-2003, 10:28 AM
What i mean is that i model for example 80 different endomorphs which are all only the change of one muscle in the face and then in layout being able to group some of them together like 10% morph1 40% morph 6 and 80% morph 40 and assign that to a slider . Kinda like busses in an audiomixer.

I hope this was better explained :)

EE

Bytehawk
06-19-2003, 10:51 AM
you could use sliders tied to the morphs no?

the same way you can use one slider to change10 lights for ex.

throw in some expressions and you're there

EvilE
06-19-2003, 11:44 AM
I think ill just start to write the plug cause i cant really explain what i mean :wip:

EE

yog
06-19-2003, 12:49 PM
If I understand you correctly, you want to create a series of facial poses by combining many endomorphs for each pose, then just animate between the poses using sliders ? (instead of many sliders controlling many endomorphs).

If I have this right then you want to look up Mike RB's tutorial on using Motion Mixer poses controlled by simple sliders.
In the tutorial Mike forms a series of complex poses using a large number of bones (although endomorphs should work as well), each pose was stored a a Motion Mixer action and then each action was tied to a slider.
Don't worry, it's a lot simpler to do than my explaination :thumbsup:

EvilE
06-19-2003, 01:01 PM
Could you with that method tweak the basic poses afterwards so that you get slight variations in the anim afterwards ( so that for example no smile looks exactly the same ) ?

EE

kretin
06-19-2003, 11:30 PM
Oh right... Here's whatcha do...

Create the set of "Grouped" morphs, by creating a morph, then move a point, then move it the negative amount you just moved it (so the morph contains a single point that's 0,0,0). Then copy that morph as many times as you need it for your other groups.

Now in layout create an expression in the graph editor for morph1 like this:

Value + mapRange( [Object.Group.Morph], 0, 100, 0, XX)

With Object.Group.Morph being the object, the group name and morph name of one of the "Grouped" morphs, and XX being the amount you want it to move.

Now apply this expression to each morph that you want grouped, and voila :) This will let you group morphs while still being able to adjust the individual morphs

Hellbring
06-19-2003, 11:48 PM
im trying to understand what this would be actually used for? I know that you can group endomorphs doing name.name convention.

What woudl this setup actually allow to happen? Is it just so that you would use the low level endomorphs and then take all the settings from that and make it a new"morph".Would this happen by takeing the values of all the low level morphs and then use the graph editor to actually set the values for the new slider?

kretin
06-20-2003, 12:09 AM
It can actually be very powerful, enabling you to create "Favorite" sets of morphs. This would be useful where you have a number of animators working on a character. To ensure consistancy you could setup these groups for expressions, eg. A very simple example is, you could create a "Happy" group which includes different amounts of - Mouth.SmileL, Mouth.SmileR, Eye.SquintL and Eye.SquintR. Once you had the Happy group on, you still have the ability to tweak the values of the underriding morphs which is important too.

This is useful for lipsync too... instead of creating seperate phonem morphs, use those phonem entries to mix expressive mouth morphs. Most phonems are just mixes of mouth expressions, so this would enable more powerful and adjustable controls while not sacrificing the simplicity of using a phonem based system.

Hellbring
06-20-2003, 12:43 AM
nice I will have to try this out on the next character i do

EvilE
06-20-2003, 07:43 AM
Nice idea kretin :) Only problem i see with it is that you cant use the same morph in several groups at once when i understand it right :p

EE

kretin
06-20-2003, 09:35 AM
I knew that was gonna come up.. I shoulda mentioned it in the original message :p

Yeah you can, just keep adding them, eg.
Value + mapRange( [Object.Group.Morph], 0, 100, 0, XX) + mapRange( [Object.Group.Morph2], 0, 100, 0, XX) + mapRange( [Object.Group.Morph3], 0, 100, 0, XX)

You might want to add a clamp to it if you're doing this, to make sure the morphs don't exceed their limits, which you'd do like this:

clamp ( "insert expression here" ), 0, 100 )

But while this does work, it's still awkward as you can't see the results affecting the sliders, but only in graph editor.

A plugin, or update to Morph Mixer could provide a better solution where the control sliders control the actual morph sliders, rather than the morph channels themselves, so you can see at a glance what's happening.

EvilE
06-20-2003, 10:08 AM
Heres a lil cutout off an article about animating Gollum that maybe describes better what i want : The facial animation control system for Gollum has Preset sliders for the big expressions. These sliders control sliders at a finer level (sliders for eyebrows, lips and so on).
When Bay moved up a Preset slider the underlying control sliders moved into the preset value. The finer control sliders could then be further manipulated.
There was also a nice thing where you could mark the lower controls of the face, drag up a pre-set slider, then mark the upper controls and drag up another preset slider. So you get an “Ooo”-shape on the lower face and a “Angry”-shape on the upper face.

So it seems that theres in the moment no fast to setup ( without writting expressions ) and slider controllable way to do this .

Thanks for all the nice and helpfull replies but it seems i need to start writting a plug for that task :)

EE

webfox
06-20-2003, 08:07 PM
Before you spend time writing that plugin, check out this:

MorphMap Mixer (http://www.dstorm.co.jp/dslib/)

It's under the UV/Map plugins.

You get a slider widget for each endomorph in your object in Modeler.

Hope this helps/saves time for you.

EvilE
06-20-2003, 10:47 PM
Thanks for the hint but thats not what i am talking about :)

EE

webfox
06-21-2003, 12:18 AM
I see what you're asking for now... You want to be able to call up endomorph B, F, H, and J all together at the same time for a specific facial movement, and then still be able to control how much each minor target expresses itself in the final form - all from Layout - on the spur of the moment, without planning out or building all the morphs in advance.

It'll take expressions to do that.

SplineGod
06-21-2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by EvilE
Heres a lil cutout off an article about animating Gollum that maybe describes better what i want : The facial animation control system for Gollum has Preset sliders for the big expressions. These sliders control sliders at a finer level (sliders for eyebrows, lips and so on).
When Bay moved up a Preset slider the underlying control sliders moved into the preset value. The finer control sliders could then be further manipulated.
There was also a nice thing where you could mark the lower controls of the face, drag up a pre-set slider, then mark the upper controls and drag up another preset slider. So you get an “Ooo”-shape on the lower face and a “Angry”-shape on the upper face.

So it seems that theres in the moment no fast to setup ( without writting expressions ) and slider controllable way to do this .

Thanks for all the nice and helpfull replies but it seems i need to start writting a plug for that task :)

EE

My understanding is that it took a very long time to set this all up too.

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