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View Full Version : i'm thinking of writing a car modeling tutorial, interested??


WChestnutt
06-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Hi,

well the title says is all really, i feel that there is a lack of tutorials for beginners who want to model cars with the point by point method so i wondered whether anyone would be interested if i made one?...

here's the thread that brought it up...

wip thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=659297#post659297)

Your feed back would be much appreciated!.:thumbsup:

Thanks,

Will

Triple G
06-17-2003, 06:51 PM
It's going to be tough to outdo Lewis's car tutorial over at LWG, but hey...there's no such thing as too many tutorials! Knowledge is meant to be shared, so by all means...go for it! :thumbsup:

relativity
06-17-2003, 07:13 PM
Yah I'd be interested. It would be nice to see other car tutorials, and different approaches.

cyb-ymer
06-17-2003, 07:16 PM
go for it :bounce:

nomex
06-17-2003, 07:32 PM
i also would be interesseted!!

allaboutkeys
06-17-2003, 07:50 PM
Me too!


allaboutkeys

ronaldomiranda
06-17-2003, 07:58 PM
I am interested too!!!

But i think its lacking more organic modelling tutorials...

thanx

( I dll one tutorial about head modelling and it was very difficult,
for a beginner like me.)

WChestnutt
06-17-2003, 08:09 PM
:thumbsup:

it would have to be very detailed, maybe having little mini tutorials/excersizes at the start for the tools/techniques used in the main tutorial.

but like i say aimed at beginners, with everything being explained with text and screenshots.

ideas would be great!!.

Cheers,

Will

ronaldomiranda
06-17-2003, 08:11 PM
Thanx a Lot for share your knowlegde brother!!!

Aquaman
06-17-2003, 08:21 PM
I'd be interested. Can never have enough tutorials.

Nborg
06-17-2003, 09:57 PM
I would love a tut like that! I've tried modeling a car using patch but i just cant make it work. Could not cover curves correctly is killing me!

Tutorial please:):)

DarkLight
06-17-2003, 10:04 PM
Do the tutorial. :thumbsup:

I'm working through Lewis's tutorial on lwg at the moment, but i always like to see how different people approach the same problem. Everybody has different techniques that we can learn from.

ptaverner
06-17-2003, 10:07 PM
I'd really like to see the tutorial you're thinking about writing. I see in your other post that you made the car point by point. Lewis used splines, so this will be a nice alternative. :)

I've built cars with Max,

( http://www.petertaverner.com/posts/ptaverner-porsche-wip-gi-te.jpg )

and I'm just getting into LW. Your tutorial would be just the ticket to get me started! :)

Peter

Nemoid
06-17-2003, 10:19 PM
I'm interested in every tutorial of every kind, expecially for cars. for now i only made organic modelling.so modelling complex things as cars , expecially if there is the inside etc interests me!!
i'll, have to model a car in the future, for an animation project so this may help me a lot.:thumbsup:

p.s. why don't u model a SMART? its so cool car!!

Nicodemus
06-17-2003, 10:29 PM
An emphatic hell yes. Make sure you keep is simple at the beginning. Alot of times I see tutorials that assume more knowledge of lightwave than some users have (yep me). Knowing the specific tools you use will help keep all up to speed.

A good example is the Todd Grimes DVD's. He starts off telling you what each tool is as he uses it and shows you where it is. So later when he refers to them with out showing you you are comfortable still following along.

Screen shots help immensely....

~L~

WChestnutt
06-17-2003, 10:30 PM
Nice car you've got there ptaverner:thumbsup:

i did use patch (learnt from lewis) for a while but then had to teach myself (as there were no tutorials i could find) how to model a decent car point by point. this method is far quicker and more accurate for a beginner (imho), and you dont have the problem of "splines dont cross correctly" which i hear so many people complaining about.

Nicodemus:
i'll make it as simple and as easy to understand as i can.:thumbsup:

someone said that i should do a series of car related tutorials, it's something that i will definetly think about.

this project will probably start in the summer holidays (about a month) maybe sooner if i can get some done after school, but i'm going to spend a fair amount of time planning it all out so it doesn't go wrong.

on a side note, do you think this would be an good thing to show in my portfolio?

Thanks for all the incouragement guys!! :beer:

Will

ps. i'll try and include an interior. smart car's a good idea!

anieves
06-17-2003, 10:48 PM
I'm game! your Porsche looks great.
I really have to give car modelling a try.
:beer:

ptaverner
06-17-2003, 10:58 PM
Thanks unknown limit. :)

It'll be really nice to have a good LW tutorial that shows how to build something ( in this case a car ), that's made for beginners. :)

Looking forward to your tutorial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peter

Lewis3D
06-17-2003, 11:40 PM
EDIT - i posted this reply in your linked thread instead here but here is copy/paste :

GO for it .

But be prepared for few things :

1. Many many many free hours to work on it if you wan't make it detailed. Don't even start if you don't have enough free time.
2. No matter how easy is looking you will always have users who would think it's too complicated or not understandable to them.
3. Many newbies even don't know where to find buttons 'coz they didn't read manuals or don't have them (that lame excuse that manuals are at friends house or dog eat them ) so be sure to include shorcut names for faster results
4. Good luck .

P.S. I must disagree about precise thing. You say that point by point is more precise than Spline patching but i can assure you that you are wrong . I tryed everything (BOX, point by point making polygons, spline patching and extender way of modeling) and if you have good resolution blueprints wich you know HOW TO spline you will have most precise model at end especialy if you have car measures . Splines do look slower in beggining (especialy for newbies) 'coz you can spend 3 hours on then where you already could make pretty big part in polygons but after you make spline it's going much faster (front/rear hood finsihed in seconds, doors and winshields also, roof is just matter of seconds and so on.. After soem time you can make all splines under 40 minutes. For isntance now i need 30-50 minutes for detailed spline cage ready for patching .

This is just IMHO ofcourse and you are entitled for your opinion

WChestnutt
06-18-2003, 12:07 AM
thanks lewis,!! :beer:


P.S. I must disagree about precise thing. You say that point by point is more precise than Spline patching but i can assure you that you are wrong . I tryed everything (BOX, point by point making polygons, spline patching and extender way of modeling) and if you have good resolution blueprints wich you know HOW TO spline you will have most precise model at end especialy if you have car measures . Splines do look slower in beggining (especialy for newbies) 'coz you can spend 3 hours on then where you already could make pretty big part in polygons but after you make spline it's going much faster (front/rear hood finsihed in seconds, doors and winshields also, roof is just matter of seconds and so on.. After soem time you can make all splines under 40 minutes. For isntance now i need 30-50 minutes for detailed spline cage ready for patching .

hmm, precise was the wrong word, i think i meant that you can get a nice flowing mesh with point by point far easier than with patch, as (especially for a beginner) if you're patching not from the tutorial you can get ares where one patch is REALLY hard to line up with the area next to it.

i can also see what you mean about point by point being slower, but it certainly feels faster when you can go create the bonet and bumper and add detail to them by the time the splines are lined up and you've just started patching, i suppose one thing is that i like seeing the model come together that way.

This is just IMHO ofcourse and you are entitled for your opinion
true, this is just my opinion, although i have a great deal of respect for your opinion.

but in the end everyone has to find and use the technique that works for them.

thanks for the reply and tips, i will keep them in mind.

much appreciated,:thumbsup:

btw, can't wait to see some more of your vehicles!,

Will

DarkLight
06-18-2003, 12:15 AM
Lewis,

Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to create the tutorial on the lwg site?

It's very detailed and i personally learnt a lot from it.

Lewis3D
06-18-2003, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by DarkLight
Lewis,

Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to create the tutorial on the lwg site?

It's very detailed and i personally learnt a lot from it.

About four (4) months of my free time (that's about 2-3 hours daily and 2 week off when i was at holydays :).

As i said - he will need a LOT of free time and don't forget support - i'am still answering questions in tutorial altough it pased 2 years since it started ;).

Mickey
06-18-2003, 05:15 AM
Go ahead, unknown limit. As people have said you can never have too much shared knowledge.

And Lewis, I just wanted to thank you for your tutorial. A friend of mine and me have both just made airplanes using your technique and they came out great!

Ciao

SplineGod
06-18-2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Lewis
EDIT - i posted this reply in your linked thread instead here but here is copy/paste :

GO for it .

But be prepared for few things :

1. Many many many free hours to work on it if you wan't make it detailed. Don't even start if you don't have enough free time.
2. No matter how easy is looking you will always have users who would think it's too complicated or not understandable to them.
3. Many newbies even don't know where to find buttons 'coz they didn't read manuals or don't have them (that lame excuse that manuals are at friends house or dog eat them ) so be sure to include shorcut names for faster results
4. Good luck .

P.S. I must disagree about precise thing. You say that point by point is more precise than Spline patching but i can assure you that you are wrong . I tryed everything (BOX, point by point making polygons, spline patching and extender way of modeling) and if you have good resolution blueprints wich you know HOW TO spline you will have most precise model at end especialy if you have car measures . Splines do look slower in beggining (especialy for newbies) 'coz you can spend 3 hours on then where you already could make pretty big part in polygons but after you make spline it's going much faster (front/rear hood finsihed in seconds, doors and winshields also, roof is just matter of seconds and so on.. After soem time you can make all splines under 40 minutes. For isntance now i need 30-50 minutes for detailed spline cage ready for patching .

This is just IMHO ofcourse and you are entitled for your opinion
I second what Lewis says in his intital points there. I think the spline patching tutorial on my site is dead easy and simple but I still have people who just dont get it usually because they dont spend a little time to become familiar with LWs basic toolset first.
Also, get a significant number of people who will download some of my free tutorials but for some reason EXPECT lifetime support.
I dont mind a few questions now and again but multiply it out.
Ive been using LW since it was called Videoscape on the Amiga.
I have tried pretty much every modeling method that Lightwave offers as well. Ive become pretty adept at knowing when to use certain tools and methods. The quickest and most precise way to model something like cars is with splines. Splines ARE point by point modeling but they require very little data to accurately define higher rez data. The few points around a spline patch can globally control the shape of thousands of points. This is also the advantage of SubD modeling as well. Splines also have the advantage over SubDs of being far more accurate. Splines have very simple rules and theyre easy to remember. Once a person figures out splines theyre hard to beat.
One approach I also use is to treat a car like a real one. A real car is made of panels. I will simply build up things as panels and then go from there. I dont have to worry if patches match up or not.
Each panel can be selected and smooth shifted out by a specifc amount to get your thickness. I can also use the same splines to do rail extrudes to create seals around windows and so on.
Splines also have the advantage of not covering up your blueprints. Each spline automatically defines your edge loops and flow. Once the spline cage is built its all down hill from there because the hard part is done. Patching is just the last technical part. The other advantage of splines is that you can kill the polys in an area where its lumpy (which is a common problem when point by point modeling), select points around the hole and spline patch that area and things will be nice and smooth again.
Splines in LW are simple and flexible. You can build up a partial cage and patch it. Later you can select points directly off your polys and continue to build up more splines and patch as you go.
Point by point modeling forces you to always work on the local level instead of starting with the big picture and honing the details later.
I also discovered years ago that it takes a HUGE amount of time just to get a minimal amount of information into a tutorial. My first tutorials for splines were in html and they became a pain to update. I have a lot of respect for Lewis for putting out his tutorial in a printed format. Its a lot of work.
This is why I started to put out courses and tutorials as avi/quicktime movies. In a few minutes I can cram a lot of information into a video that would take days or weeks to do otherwise. Its impossible to put the same amount of info thats in a movie into a book. Most LW books out there would only take up a couple of hours on video. My Character Course for example is over 60 HOURS of quicktime movies. Can you image how long it would take to begin to try and covert all that into printed form?

EricCartman
06-18-2003, 09:12 AM
A good car tutorial would kick ass... something in style of Fiat 500 tutorial on www.3dtotal.com .

WChestnutt
06-18-2003, 09:23 AM
i knew this would happen sooner or later...

point by point is still a method on it's own, when i was using c4d it didn't even have spline patching, point by point was the only decent way tyo model a car. never have i said that people should not use splines, or stop using the payching method to model cars.

it's just the method i use to model cars is what i feel comfortable using and i would like to share that with other users (especially beginners) who dont feel comfortable using splines, of find they don't like working with patch.

every method is usefull so the more techniques people know how to use the better.

thanks for the info.

Also thanks all you guys who are supporting me. :thumbsup: :beer:

Cheers,

Will

kretin
06-18-2003, 09:48 AM
Great idea dude. I know alot of people who'd be interested in a consise tute on building (and texturing?) a car. I say consise, cause as great as Lewis's tute is, being in a forum it's quite difficult to follow with all the chatter in between steps.

I know William would love to host it with the tutorials on Newtek's site, whatever format it's in.

WChestnutt
06-18-2003, 10:03 AM
i could include the texturing, (a simple gradient, indice angle on the colour, and falloff on the reflection) i suppose it would be a great help to those who can't get a decent paint texture. also i may include a simple scene setup.

note to spline god ect: just wanted to say that there are things on the car i will use patches for. eg windows.

newteks site eh? thats a thought.
if not i am going to ask by brither if he can set me up with my own site, if that doesn't work i've had an offer from a guy saying he would be more than happy to host it.

Cheers,

Will

Zarathustra
06-18-2003, 08:52 PM
There can never be too many tutorials. Go for it, dude.

More screenshots, the better, I suppose.

vizion
06-18-2003, 09:38 PM
write the tutorial.

WChestnutt
06-19-2003, 09:48 AM
Thanks,

i've started writing the intro and some of the mini tuts for the tools and techniques as this part doesn't need as much planning as the main.

when their finished i will need someone (preferably a beginner) to read through it.

does anyone have any other ideas on what should be added?

Cheers,

Will.

WChestnutt
06-19-2003, 02:19 PM
i've decided that most of the sub tutorials are going to be linked to each other, for example you would go from creating a mesh from the extender tutorial and then use that mesh in the smoothshift tutorial, and then that on the subpatch and bandsaw ect ect...

keep in mind this is for beginners:thumbsup:

what do you think?

Thanks,

will

fourd
06-19-2003, 03:57 PM
Sounds good ! Now finish it already.

I'm not quite a beginner, but I'm not that experienced with LW so I wouldn't mind running through them for you. I do a lot of writing as well so I can proof read for you as well.

PM me if you're interested in my help.:beer:

Rumors
06-19-2003, 05:14 PM
I'm not a beginner, but I've never tried modeling a car before. I'd be willing to test the tutorial out if you need volunteers.

rpage
06-19-2003, 07:36 PM
I would love to give your tutorial a go. I am very new to lightwave and have never modeled a car.

WChestnutt
06-19-2003, 07:57 PM
hmm, i've gone into way too much detail, stating the obvious (alot) i've written the first sub tut as if i'm explaining it to someone who's never touched lw.

probably time for a quick rewrite.

WChestnutt
06-19-2003, 08:17 PM
ok, after a quick rewrite i have the first draft af the first sub tut ready,

does anyone have somewhere i could host the sub tut drafts for a short while just so i dont have to keep e-mailing out these big files?
i could just give out the web address to the 10/15 people who are going to test it, instead of posting the link to everyone. (incase of bandwidth trouble)

its nearly 200 kb, on i dial-up it takes a while to send out 15 of them.

if you have anywhere please e-mail me. will@grangeclose.freeserve.co.uk

Thanks,

Will

ps. i tried to put it up on my free goecities site but couldn't get both the text and pictures onto the same space.

WChestnutt
06-19-2003, 09:33 PM
Ok,

i have a place to host it for the time being, once it's uploaded i'll send out pm's with the link.:thumbsup:

Thanks,

Will

WChestnutt
06-20-2003, 09:38 AM
I now have a nice groupo of testers.

Thanks guys

SPIDER2544
06-20-2003, 10:32 AM
i really hope your tutorial goes over stuff like


modeling down to the smalest details (like emblems and stuff)
modeling interior (nobody ever goes over how to do that)
modeling rims ( all the tutorials on that SUCK SOOOOO HARD)
modeling Tire treads (in lightwave i cant figgure out for the life of me how to do that and ive talked with a lot of other people who just cant figgre out how to do it either)

after that

go over surfacing
its like no one out there really can explan how and the hell they are suposed to surface a car properly

and probibly one of the most important thing to do teach people how to do a proper render
how to light a scene
how to do basic HDRI
How to COMPOSITE
just a nice simple composite no video just the car into a still image with HDRI.... simple

and maybe even through in how to do a grey render with out any surfacing on a car to show people how to do a WIP render of an image

if you do all that and maybe even more youll have one hell of a tutorial it would even be worth publishing in somebodys book

if i were you i would do a video tutorial and then do a writen one so you can get your tutorial finished quickly

Lewis3D
06-20-2003, 09:18 PM
@SPIDER2544

Just an info to you :).

I did show modeling to smallest details on Mustang tutorial, also i modeled completly interior so you are wrong in that also. I showed full modeling process of rims/tyres and i showed how to model tyre threads in 5 small steps wich is so easy in LW that's unbelivable :).

So next time try to research before you say some thing :).

NoHardFeelings - just pointing you to correct info ;).

SPIDER2544
06-21-2003, 10:24 PM
hard feelings? ha yea right your tutorial OOWWWNNNZZZ
and if this guy wants to make one it should be just as good if not better or elese i say its a waste of time

just after i posted that i found your tutorial

and i have to say that you are the only person who i have seen that has done that to that extent ....im betting your the only persona that has done a tutorial to that extent on car modeling

but yea i hope this guy does a really nice job on his tutorial

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