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pepeland
11-18-2008, 11:31 PM
[Hi there!

Iīve just upload a video about how to use sculp in animation (AniSculp), you can make
squash & stretch, redefine a shape of a model or a face expression, fix skin problems and so on .
I thing that is a powerfull animation technique

AniSculp video: http://vimeo.com/2274969

AniSculp Test01 : http://vimeo.com/2278045


::UPDATE 2-July-09::

I just upload a new version of AniSculpt (0.7) with a couple of new features.

- Donīt need vertex cache animation with Blender Rigs, just regular blendshapes/morphers
- Import Camera animation form Maya

See a demonstration video here: http://vimeo.com/5399813
an the AniSculpt scripts for Blender and Maya in www.pepeland.com



::UPDATE 29-Nov-08::

A new video about Maya to Blender connection, you can import your animation from Maya to Blender, Apply AniSculpt, and then you export the results to Maya.

http://www.vimeo.com/2376664 (http://www.vimeo.com/2376664)

The scripts will be available soon in my web page, pepeland.com (http://pepeland.com/)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=135203&stc=1

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=135204&stc=1
take a look

Jur!

benytone
11-18-2008, 11:58 PM
Hi there!

Iīve just upload a video about how to use sculp in animation (AniSculp), you can make
squash & stretch, redefine a shape of a model or a face expression, fix skin problems and so on .
I thing that is a powerfull animation technique

!

but that not New, Cinema 4D has had this tool since several years now

Breinmeester
11-18-2008, 11:58 PM
Very cool technique! Definately something I've been waiting for.
I'm not a Blender user, but this technique and current events might make me one!
Love your stuff by the way, Daniel!

visionmaster2
11-19-2008, 12:03 AM
this looks great ! :applause:

bigbad
11-19-2008, 12:32 AM
I must say. I will try to animate with this technique. Awesome :)

coolher
11-19-2008, 02:46 AM
very good!

I'l do it ...

HotBox
11-19-2008, 09:26 AM
does anyone know If you could do this sort of thing in maya. It seems very cool. maybe using blend shapes. maybe using micheal comets pose space deformer

pepeland
11-19-2008, 09:41 AM
does anyone know If you could do this sort of thing in maya. It seems very cool. maybe using blend shapes. maybe using micheal comets pose space deformer

Now I am thinking in a pipeline Max->Blender->Max and Maya->Blender->Maya, creating
".mc" importers/exporters (the common cache format in Max/Maya) to bring to Max/Maya
studios and artists the possibility to put this technique in their pipelines.


Jur!

HotBox
11-19-2008, 10:21 AM
that sounds like a great idea. is there already and MC exporter/importer for maya and blender, As my programming is rubbish

Skamierski
11-19-2008, 12:27 PM
but that not New, Cinema 4D has had this tool since several years now


thats not true

cinema 4d has a simple deformation brush but not something like this

nimajneb
11-19-2008, 01:16 PM
That was very interesting. Basically if I understood it, he's sculpting on point cached versions of his animation and creating "shape keys" i.e. blend shapes on the fly, something that Blender seems to support in the data structure of its mesh. Could you do the same thing in Maya, Max, etc.? Not so easily I think. Just thinking in Max, you could add a morpher on top of the point cached animation and tweak it in this fashion, but you would have to be cloning and sculpting meshes and then playing with all the targets. It's been a while since I tried to animate anything with edit mesh and I don't think it can store keys, though I'm sure someone can confirm or deny that for me. In any event it wouldn't be so elegant as this. Very interesting technique, and a wonderfully toony execution.

Ikaria
11-19-2008, 01:18 PM
The selection dialogue box seems a little unwieldly but -- Wow!
This might be the single best reason to finally give Blender a whirl.

To answer someone else's question -- no, you couldn't do this in
Maya. All the components are there, but the program would choke
under all the blendshapes.

Pentagramma
11-19-2008, 01:31 PM
Great idea! Very useful, and an excelent add-on to a very nice app.

But actually, you can do something at least similar to this on Maya. You can use the Soft Modification tool on the frame you like (enhancing a smile, uping an eyebrow a bit more, etc), and animate the envelope on the tool nodes (so to add influence on the frame you like only).

Itīs not that elegant a solution as pepelandīs, obviously, but it works.

benytone
11-19-2008, 01:47 PM
thats not true

cinema 4d has a simple deformation brush but not something like this

hmmm...from what I've seen, then you can do that with Cinema 4D too

spacefrog
11-19-2008, 01:56 PM
3ds Max is able to pointlevel-animation too in poly-objects, for which you have Max's sculping-toolset available....
Looks this technique here (AniSculp) does not store the sculpttool animation , but keyframes for vertex-positions ..am i right ?

But looks like a very elegant implementation of this technique of course :applause:

vauric
11-19-2008, 01:57 PM
Great technique. Thx

For XSI users, you can do a similar thing with the "View Plane Proportional Transform Tool" (in "modify-component"). Then storing and applying shape key, once you've sculpted it.

Its not a true sculpting option like the video in blender, but does work specially if you re sculpting to the camera.

Mazer
11-19-2008, 02:12 PM
3ds Max is able to pointlevel-animation too in poly-objects, for which you have Max's sculping-toolset available....


It's not working here... if I put edit poly or edit mesh over a point cache modifier, I can move verts but not animate them. I'm I missing something ?

EDIT: Doesn't work directly on a rig either....

bardur
11-19-2008, 02:14 PM
Nice stuff Pepeland.
Looks like that tool is perfect to add in a finishing touch to just get that extra "omph".. or just to animate as a whole to make it more fluid..
and it has a very intuitive feel over it (as far as i can see)

Would be nice to have something that "intuitive" in Max or other applications (saying that - not knowing if there is or isnt ;) )

Looking forward to things/videos to come

Regards

nimajneb
11-19-2008, 02:15 PM
It's not working here... if I put edit poly or edit mesh over a point cache modifier, I can move verts but not animate them. I'm I missing something ?

That's what I wasn't sure you would be able to do. I know you can pop a morpher on the top of the PC and then sculpt your shapes in and blend them with that, but I wasn't sure if you could just key in the Edit Poly. Doesn't sound like it, if I understand what you're saying. To be honest though, I'm not sure how you would manage blending your edits without the morpher in place anyway.

Mazer
11-19-2008, 02:20 PM
The ideia is not to blend edits but to refine the poses via sculpting, like cleaning a drawing, it's diferent. I guess we could use morphs but it would probably be very time consumming and not as nearly as intuitive...

nimajneb
11-19-2008, 02:34 PM
The ideia is not to blend edits but to refine the poses via sculpting, like cleaning a drawing, it's diferent. I guess we could use morphs but it would probably be very time consumming and not as nearly as intuitive...

Yes, I understand what the idea is, however it is a blendshapes solution. Blender's shape keys are simply blendshapes implemented in a different fashion. The difference is that the blendshapes functionality is built right into Blender's equivalent of the vertex channel controllers, apparently. This is definitely NOT how Max does things. If it was as simple as animating in the edit modifier, the question that would immediately arise is that if I edit my model on frame 103, what happens on frame 104? That is what I mean by blending your edits. Watching the video, the example shows literally hundreds of shape keys, in Max terms blendshapes or morph targets, which blender is interpolating between on top of the cached animation. In Max, the same technique would be a big pain: clone cached mesh on frame, sculpt, add as target to morpher, set in and out blends. In blender, it seems it's as simple as setting any other key. And that is an elegant solution.

Lomax
11-19-2008, 03:24 PM
I think with a little bit of scripting, this could be done in Maya, and maybe Max. You could use your fully rigged character as a blendshape for an unrigged copy, and sculpted changes could be converted into additional targets. I'm not sure how well or even if it would work for higher resolution changes, though.

nimajneb
11-19-2008, 04:10 PM
Okay, I watched through that video again just to make sure I understood what was happening. Apparently there are two types of shape keys in Blender, Absolute and Relative. Absolute keys are just that, absolute values of co-ordinates defining the shape of the mesh. When Blender does its Vertex Cache, it creates an absolute shape for each key in the animation. What the artist appears to do with his AniSculpting is to then add a relative key on top of these absolute keys. Relative keys are the blend shapes we're familiar with, containing relative offsets to the target mesh to the base mesh. In his example case, it appears that relative is to the absolute key for each frame. He sculpts and then sets keys ahead and behind the sculpted frame for fading out the sculpted relative shape.

In Max (and I would suspect Maya) the Point Cache would replace the absolute shape keys, acting as the absolute shape of the mesh. The question would then be, as I see it, whether the morpher could handle it's base target changing shape? In a conventional morph, the base mesh in fixed. I'm not sure that it could store relative offsets to a changing mesh. I've never tried such a thing. It should be easy to test however, simply load a point cache on mesh, snap shot some keyframes, sculpt them and load the targets, fading them off and see if you get what you expect. Assuming it works, an aspiring TD could make a rollout that would automate the process of cloning the mesh, allowing for sculpts, loading it back into the morpher and setting the bounding keys.

pepeland
11-19-2008, 04:14 PM
Technically Itīs no dificult make the same in Max, Maya, Xsi ... at the end are
only correction blendshapes, but the point is the Sculp tools, thatīs work like a super-great-easy-fast-controllable soft modification tool.

Jur!

joshpurple
11-19-2008, 04:28 PM
Great to see it! I like how easy and straight forward it looks. Blender continues to impress :) .

kees
11-19-2008, 04:30 PM
Hi,

Nice workflow Daniel.
I'm impressed with the paint tools in Blender.


For those who wonder how to do this in 3dsMax.
You can do this with MorphX2 (free corrective morphs for max) and edit_poly.
Though the Blender paint tools seem nicer then the ones in edit_poly!

Here's a quick video of a similar workflow:

http://www.youtube.com/v/ugTObiXDpdQ


If you want to try it out, you can download MorphX2 from my website.
MorphX2 can also be maxscripted, so if you wanted to make a quick button that, grabs the new morph, renames it and auto-keys it for the active frame, that would be quite easy.

Take care,

ccherrett
11-19-2008, 06:15 PM
Hi,

Nice workflow Daniel.
I'm impressed with the paint tools in Blender.


For those who wonder how to do this in 3dsMax.
You can do this with MorphX2 (free corrective morphs for max) and edit_poly.
Though the Blender paint tools seem nicer then the ones in edit_poly!

Here's a quick video of a similar workflow:

http://www.youtube.com/v/ugTObiXDpdQ


If you want to try it out, you can download MorphX2 from my website.
MorphX2 can also be maxscripted, so if you wanted to make a quick button that, grabs the new morph, renames it and auto-keys it for the active frame, that would be quite easy.

Take care,

It looks much easier in blender than what you showed in your video.

DingTo
11-19-2008, 06:28 PM
Wow, this technique is really awesome. It really helps to give your animation a more detailed touch. Blender rocks! :beer:

kees
11-19-2008, 06:40 PM
It looks much easier in blender than what you showed in your video.

Well, mr grumpy, I didn't know it was a contest...

I just showed how to duplicate a similar workflow with corrective Morphs in 3dsMax.
Take it or leave it.

Cheesestraws
11-19-2008, 06:44 PM
I think with a little bit of scripting, this could be done in Maya, and maybe Max. You could use your fully rigged character as a blendshape for an unrigged copy, and sculpted changes could be converted into additional targets. I'm not sure how well or even if it would work for higher resolution changes, though.

If you cache your geometry then you can replace individual frames, it also allows interpolation over a number of frames to create smooth transitions. You can read about it here http://download.autodesk.com/us/maya/2009help/index.html?url=Geometry_Cache__Replace_Cache_Frame.htm,topicNumber=d0e297133, and there is a video showing it being done here http://download.autodesk.com/us/maya/m8demo4/maya8_demo4.html they even use the sculpting tools for it.

ccherrett
11-20-2008, 05:04 AM
mr grumpy

lol :)

If you must know I am cheering on blender :)

Pinoy McGee
11-20-2008, 05:22 PM
So cool. I've always wondered if char animators will always be stuck with pose-to-pose or straight-ahead when it comes to hand animated techniques. Anisculpting looks like a promising new method (sculpt-to-pose?). Should be a standard feature for all 3d apps with a char animation component.

A new specialist is born maybe: the secondary motions tweek animator.

AnimBot
11-20-2008, 10:07 PM
Yea this is really cool. I know Mr. Lara was a Max user at one point. Heck If I remember right I think I've seen work from him in Maya as well. It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on applications outside of Blender.

manwithagun
11-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Technically Itīs no dificult make the same in Max, Maya, Xsi ... at the end are
only correction blendshapes, but the point is the Sculp tools, thatīs work like a super-great-easy-fast-controllable soft modification tool.

Jur!

yes exactly!

I wrote a maya tool that did similar things couple of years back for refining cloth sims to do live action to digi double swapovers... basically creating blendshapes on the fly... but back then i was stuck with poly sculpt to correct the mesh... with soft mods added you could get virtually the same workflow as this blender soloution now in maya.

2c

ThE_JacO
11-20-2008, 10:59 PM
A new specialist is born maybe: the secondary motions tweek animator.
Most places call it character FX.
The role and this particular tool from the box have existed for a decade now, probably more.

Screen space proportional modelling saved to shapes (shapes ideally relative to the point's frameset and not to the object or global space) is something that's being done, assisted by little facilitating tools or not, in Maya, Houdini and XSI for the last 6 or 7 years in film and commercials shops all over. Never used max but I wouldn't be surprised if people were doing the same.

It's a great video by a great artist, and it's nice that blender offers a specialist implementation, but it's NOT anything new in any regard, not a single one, so don't go and think the market and the industry will be stormed by a decade old compounding of some tools dressed as a feature :)

anishmations
11-21-2008, 01:29 AM
tats really cool. Very useful .thanks for showin the possibility!
Wish they better the not-at-all-tempting-or-userfriendly sculpt tools in max. After trying out the sculpt tools in maya and modo/zbrush/mudbox...i feel the omission of development in that otherwise very useful tool in max is really sad.

Pinoy McGee
11-21-2008, 01:53 AM
Screen space proportional modelling saved to shapes (shapes ideally relative to the point's frameset and not to the object or global space) is something that's being done, assisted by little facilitating tools or not, in Maya, Houdini and XSI for the last 6 or 7 years in film and commercials shops all over.

Modelling of course. But as an on the fly animation technique where you sculpt as opposed to manipulating the rig? Haven't seen that before.

ThE_JacO
11-21-2008, 03:03 AM
Modelling of course. But as an on the fly animation technique where you sculpt as opposed to manipulating the rig? Haven't seen that before.
Not talking of modelling, I'm talking of animation departments, even those pull modelling tools out once in a while you know :)
Shapes wrapped in many interesting ways are the job of character fx/technical animation departments and have been for years (per shot per char per frame corrections, PSD, shape clouds look-up etc).

This technique in the specific has been around for ages, long enough that it's reduced to the elementary toolset needed to do it, which is what makes it odd to see it named and pimped.
All it does is save the displacement vectors locally to the point's frameset and automatically key it.
It's nothing different from modifying something in the secondary shape stack in XSI and save+apply the clip, not one bit different not even in the number of clicks or the type of view interaction, but that doesn't make it an XSI feature.

The reason you might have never seen it is that it's just a procedure, it's not even a feature, so you might have never thought of working that way or seen anybody do, but the steps, with the same level of simplicity have been available since forever.

Pinoy McGee
11-21-2008, 03:57 AM
but the steps, with the same level of simplicity have been available since forever.

So it was a known technique but not a commonly publicised or even practiced one (outside of film anyway). Is that a fair statement? Was it because of prevailing hardware constraints way back when?

ThE_JacO
11-21-2008, 04:22 AM
So it was a known technique but not a commonly publicised or even practiced one (outside of film anyway). Is that a fair statement? Was it because of prevailing hardware constraints way back when?

It was known and widely practiced in scenarios where production times and requirements would require that level of per-shot detail.
If you want a strong hyperbole, I'd say it's not commonly publicized for the same reasons breathing isn't commonly publicized, you would assume competent character TDs and technical animators know of this by default.
When you boil it down to its fundamental element it really is just corrective shapes to fix a frame, only taken to the next level here to compensate for fundamental deficiencies (lack of screen space control on silhouette and squash and stretch) in the rig.

Hardware hasn't really imposed any constraints on this in a long time, it's several years that having a few hundreds shapes on a point cache is both practical and available without the hw barfing out on it.

I'll leave it at this though, because it's getting to the point where I'm having to phrase this in a way that might be offensive to the community orbiting around the video, maker and sw users both.
I think it's a great effort and it's nicely presented, and there's nothing wrong with Blender, given the non commercial nature of it, trying to formalize and publicize something even if it's tested and tried, and the author certainly didn't claim he had invented the wheel :) so, apologies in advance if my last couple posts might diminish the efforts shown here a bit, that's absolutely not the intention.

nimajneb
11-21-2008, 12:57 PM
Technically Itīs no dificult make the same in Max, Maya, Xsi ... at the end are
only correction blendshapes, but the point is the Sculp tools, thatīs work like a super-great-easy-fast-controllable soft modification tool.

Jur!

True. That little Z-Brush-esque sculpting tool is awesome. What I'm really thankful for in seeing this is the new idea it presented to me. I've understood corrective blendshapes for some time as a method of correcting for skinning difficulties, but using it as a way to push poses like was done in this example was something I'd never thought to try. So thanks again for sharing this, Pepe. It was very educational to see a way to add a new layer of polish to an animation. I just wish I didn't have to go out of my program of choice to get access to such a simple workflow.

pepeland
11-21-2008, 03:58 PM
Glenn melenhorst has upload some hours ago a quick video showing a Pointcache modifier in blender
to share caches between Max - Blender

http://www.vimeo.com/2304389

"Here is an example of Pointcache 2 working inside Blender as a modifier. The mod was created by Grant Adam and is a work in progress being developed at Iloura.

The video also shows how the setup can integrate with sculpted shape keys to tweak the resultant animation.

Glenn Melenhorst. "

cresshead
11-22-2008, 02:17 PM
this plugin sculpt modifier for max is also worth a look too for such tasks maybe?

http://www.lbrush.com/index.htm

blenderhead
11-22-2008, 03:11 PM
Haha its pretty funny watching people tripping over each other to announce that this is nothing new and their way more awesome tools have had it for years. Perhaps, but I've never seen it implemented in this way, and its not a being dressed up as a major new feature by the Blender dudes because they haven't cooked up anything new in their software for two years (like Autoca$$$h), rather, it is an innocent video made by a user on a cool workflow that he came across.

Fantastic video Daniel. It's a good demostration, but not exactly a video tutorial. I know that was not your intention, but I'd love to see a thourough tutorial on this. You should consider making a animation DVD for Blender. I'd buy it :)

Mazer
11-22-2008, 04:49 PM
Haha its pretty funny watching people tripping over each other to announce that this is nothing new and their way more awesome tools have had it for years

Otherwise people would feel stupid for paying thousands for they'r very professional tools :wise:

pepeland
11-29-2008, 08:29 PM
A new video about Maya to Blender connection, you can import your animation from Maya to Blender, Apply AniSculpt, and then you export the results to Maya.

http://www.vimeo.com/2376664 (http://www.vimeo.com/2376664)

Jur!

Breinmeester
11-29-2008, 08:59 PM
You're a hero, man! That's just brilliant!!

pepeland
11-30-2008, 03:26 PM
I wil make the same with Max, itīs no difficult, but first I need "polish" the Maya scripts.

Jur!

pepeland
12-01-2008, 03:16 PM
I forgot mention that the scripts will be available in my webpage: pepeland.com

Jur!

Lomax
12-01-2008, 04:23 PM
Damn, I've been searching for a Maya/Blender connection for a while! More for the cloth and fluid simulations, but AniSculpt is certainly a bonus!

pepeland
12-16-2008, 10:08 AM
Check http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5563902#post5563902
for Maya-Blender connection scripts.

Jur!

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