Face WIP

[Tirjasdyn]

Okay, some clean up and work on the hair...I also spent some more time on the eye.

http://www.michellejnorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/face1.jpg

[nikitarose]

Hi there,
I'd just like to say a few things about this drawing.
1. Anatomy,Anatomy Anatomy - it's all off, try some of the traditional anatomy forums on here. even ImagineFX magazine, is extremly helpful here is their website http://www.imaginefx.com/ and you can subscribe to it from here https://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/ it has helped me alot... study peoples faces in the streets and on buses etc....
2. Shadows are not black, don't use black to add shadow, even if the object your painting is "black" always use the darkest of a "colour"... say your image has an overall red hue, pick red and then find the darkest varient of it which is almost but not black.
3. what is the reason for this picture? what's her story? what are you trying to express but drawing this picture? Does she even have one, or are you just painting a face just because/for practise?

Keep practising, researching, developing, and above all aim for improvement!
have another go after some anatomy practise and don't use black for shadows.
cheers;)

[Tirjasdyn]

Thanks for the comment.

1. yes, I knew as I kept at it that I was losing ear placement, and the neck was to noodly. I've moved the ear and the eye as well as got some neck work done. While I love imagine fx it cost 16.99$ per issue right now, I really can't afford a subscription. Love the magazine though.

2. While I know they're not black, I see no reason not to use it. Not going for realism. Having said that I'm not actually using black, but a very dark brown...

3. The reason is practice....though I'm thinking of sticking in something desolate.

Here's a little more work.

http://www.michellejnorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/face2.jpg

[DArcy1]

Hi

You seriously need to look at your anatomy before you go any further with this one. I know your intent is practice. If you are practicing blending, use a simple sphere. If you are practicing painting a face, you need to know what the anatomy is before you start to shade. Shadows and highlights define the shape you are creating and unless you know where everything goes it just looks deformed and, I'm afraid, ugly. You can't actually draw effective caricatures until you know how to draw the face properly. These 2 pics may help:
http://www.robink.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/profile.jpg
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedImages/Site_Content/Features/PROFILE.jpg

D'Arcy

[Tirjasdyn]

Thank you for the comments!

hrm...I was never going for pretty. Not everyone is. It is a person.

Can you be more specific on which parts of the anatomy you think are wrong? I'm using references from various books I have.

Here is some more done. The chin and neck still need more work. thinking of changing the nose.


http://www.michellejnorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/face3.jpg

[DArcy1]

I was being specific - overlay either of those 2 images I posted for you and you'll see the issues for yourself.

But as general examples: her eye is rotated 45 degrees away from what is possible, she has no cheekbones but apparantly a large ridge of bone running from her ear to her chin, she has a massive jawbone that hinges behind her ear, she has the left-hand inch of her chin chopped off, and she has the cranial capacity of a chimpanzee rather than a human being. :D

If this is supposed to be a particular person, please post your reference. Unless you know what you are doing it's not actually possible to cut and paste sections of difference reference photos and have it look normal. Just use one.

Grid it out like this - which I copied from the Paint-by-grid website (Henning Ludvigsen's site is down but his examples are the best):

"All Paint-By-Grids products use the "grid method" which Leonardo Da Vinci used to teach art. The grid method divides the image that you want to paint into smaller "bite sized" squares, and then you sketch each square one-at-a-time onto your canvas. When you're done with the last square, your sketch is in perfect perspective and ready to paint! "
http://www.paintbygrids.com/images/process.jpg



D'Arcy

[voltageme5]

what you need to do is look at a photograph of a head/face and see how everything is in relation to each other.

1.) Where does the top of the ear sit compared to the eyes? What about the bottom of the ear?
2.) how far is the mouth from the bottom of the nose?
3.) How large is the nose compared to the ear?

etc. etc. etc.

You just need to sit and look at photographs and literally measure out distances to get an idea of parts of the head in relation to each other.

The picture as u have it now has some serious issues. The eye is tilted down, the mouth is slanted a little towards the viewer yet we are seeing the side of the face, the tip of her nose is pushed way up, the front of her neck is too far back, it should be between the eye and ear, her jaw bone is too far back as well, her forehead is too small.

You just need to really look at the details, proportions as well as the "shapes" that make up a head and keep practicing. Eventually all the pieces will come together.


Good luck
Jesse

[TinaVaziri]

I have written several portrait drawing tutorials, and have a profile drawing tutorial that might help you. http://tinavaziri.com/blog/profile-drawing-tutorial/

[Tirjasdyn]

Hello,

So my computer died last November. It took a bit to replace it. Now Painter 8 is giving me issues with saving of all things on Vista. Sigh. So I'm just now getting back to this. I don't have access to a scanner so I can't share any offline work...anyway Back to the Face!

I just painted over the eye area completely. Then I began reworking the bones. So far:

http://michellejnorton.com/sketch/face.jpg

[Wooz1]

Hi, I tried messing around with your picture for about 10 minutes to make it more anatomically correct; I am no master by any degree but this is what I think your picture should roughly look like in my opinion...hope this helps.

http://a.imagehost.org/0245/jkh.jpg

[Tirjasdyn]

Thank you for the paint over. I've been referring to it abit.

Painter 8 was giving me way too many problems on Vista...I finally used the upgrade to Painter 10...I decided to reboot the image.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Cf7cQSDuaGE/SX_duJAGRyI/AAAAAAAAA4w/mvxF6yRid8I/face50.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Cf7cQSDuaGE/SX_duJAGRyI/AAAAAAAAA4w/mvxF6yRid8I/face50.JPG

[Tirjasdyn]

More work on the face...the beginning of hair (again) :)

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Cf7cQSDuaGE/SX_i7rD5uuI/AAAAAAAAA44/fnRXsIhXrKk/s800/face60.JPG

[DArcy1]

Hi

I'm afraid you seem to be going around in circles with this, it still looks, well, deformed. Please please post your reference photo so we can help you make this look more like a person. If you aren't using a reference photo, my best advice is stop this now, take a picture of someone or google one, and post that - then start a new painting. Trust me, it will be sooo much less painful for you in the end, to do it that way..

D'Arcy

[Cati]

Since a lot of advice has already been given I don't know how helpful this is but here goes.

The problem here is that you're kind of seeing things through a "filter" (your brains). You have to learn to go around this filter. You have to start relying what you SEE - and forget about how you THINK you see.

I give you a simple test. Look around you and pick an object that's not facing you directly. like a painting on the wall or a table in the corner. But what ever the object is - make sure it''s not dead straight before your eyes and it's not round in any way. Now - draw it on a paper or with your Painter. Don't measure anything just yet.

Now take a pencil or a straight stick and with your other eye closed check the angles of the sides of the object by keeping the pencil between you and the object and tilting it according to the object's sides. Compare them to the object you drew a moment ago. What you're seeing this time is actually the non-filtered data. Draw a new picture with the information you now have about the angles.

A face is a lot more complicated thing to draw but the same principles apply. When you look at a person's profile, your brains are actually replacing things what you see with a predefined data and symbols. That's how brains work. It says - "this cup is white", when the cup is actually under a yellow light and has all the shades and values of it's environment reflecting on it. Our brain overrides most of what we see. And in order to get forward with your drawing - you'll just have to break the override and accept what you see.

Take a pen and check out the angle of the mouth you have drawn. Then compare it to any profile picture you can find or your friends profile. You can see that the mouth is actually a lot more horizontal - unless she's making faces.

I warmly suggest you find the book written by Betty Edward - Learn to Draw: Drawing on the Right side of the Brain. It will help you tremendously to get started.

[nikitarose]

I have to ask, in all honesty area you being serious? If you are then I suggest you go out and buy that book, read it! then scrap this picture totally as it just isn't working truely, I'm not trying to be mean, but the anatomy and colours really do make this "thing" grotesue. I would also suggest not using painter or even any other type of drawing software program, get out the trusty old pen or pencil (in your case best start with the pencil) use the book as Cati described earlier, and do some of the tuts/challenges/lessons from that and post them here. if you are still keen to draw a "girl on the side face portrait" picture please do what everyone has suggested and get a reference picture, draw it with pencil and paper say ten times or so till you think it is looking human, then work on it in a drawing software program.

[Cati]

We all start from somewhere. Tirjasdyn asked for advice as she's trying to learn. Who are we to deny anyone's rights to ask and recieve advice? The book that was mentioned is a great start - but we can't force anyone to buy and read it before posting here.

We're not striving to be better compared to others - we're here to get better compared to our own skills. I think it would be a shame to deny participation to this subforum only based on our degree of expertise compared to others. It's certainly against what I believe in.

[nikitarose]

Yes that is true, I do believe that we should compare our improvement against our earlier work. and I do think greatly of tirjasdyn for posting and asking for help. And I know (i reread my post) my last post was a little "forward". but I was a little upset to see this picture that has asked for help, and has received so many sugestions and corrections to basically be going backwards in a negative way.
and in no way was i suggesting that this post should be denied, but was merely hoping that we might see some sort of application of the above sugestions that so many people have put time into answering the question/advice for improvement.

and now directly to you tirjasdyn, I'm glad you are asking for help, I would just like to see some of these peoples suggestion tried out, even if you decide that you don't like how those sugestions turn out post them here just so that we can see that you are challenging yourself to do things differently. I believe in try, try and try again, after all that's how we learnt to walk and ride bikes right? however the second and third try's were not the same as the first or each other, they where changed with the new information from the previous try "this is what was working last time and this is what didn't."
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Albert Einstein.

KEEP GOING, TRY NEW THINGS, BUT REMEMBER TO HAVE FUN.

[CKPinson]

Well, I guess you can call that an apology- Don't worry, I've gotten some REAL negative and uniformative critiques as well (as I think most of us who try have)- just keep practicing and remember that you can't please everybody but you can start with yourself. Heck, I've seen some "art" that I was shocking was "art" but I respected the industry.

[Tirjasdyn]

Lol... I have a degree in Creative Writing. I have very thick skin. :) Criticism is just that. That's why I'm posting here.

I agree I'm going backwards. I'm really unhappy at this restart. I've made the ear bigger but neglected to move the dang hole. Stupid me. The mouth I've been struggling with as well. I want a full lower lip but when I straighten it out it...that isn't conveyed anymore. Horizontal makes sense, I think I can see what you're saying.

I can't post my reference. It's in a book and 1) don't have a scanner and 2) I really shouldn't be scanning from a book. This is practice.

Okay I'm going to scrap this completely. I have been thinking of picking up DotRSoB again. When I started taking college classes (while still in high school) I took some art classes that taught from this book. I've seen a few iterations. I have a drawing faces book (I forget the exact title and author at the moment. I'll try to remember to post it when I get back home. Either way I'll stick DotRSoB on my list for the next book run.

I'm having two issues that I see. What I draw using a pen and pencil is not translating to what I draw on the computer. And obviously I'm having perspective issues. I've been trying to work with the tools in painter for this (grids and such).

As for serious. This is a hobby for me. I really want to learn. I draw every day. Of course I have a 9 to 5 and a few freelance gigs (web design and writing). People are very hard for me...which is why I'm spending a lot of time on this.

[Vyse-soa]

What got me a bit deeper into drawing, was the idea of simplyfing things.
What I mean with that goes a bit into the direction Cati went.
It's about looking at an complex ojbect, like the lips for example, and breaking em down
to as few lines as possible, so you can remember a simple drawing concept for the lips.
You can take an reference picture and trace it, but make it simple with shapes and lines you can reproduce easily, make some landmark points, where the darkest values are or where it makes sense for you.
Look up the way other people draw the face features or whatever and combine it with your very own ideas, develop your own method with the inspiration of already existing methods.
What also helps me sometimes is to check some linedrawn manga art, because it's very simplyfied, but the most important angles and lines are there and easy to determine.
Oh yeah, and I think, one the most important things is to recoginze the strongest and lightest values and seeing the form of the object your are painting, besides you seldom have to paint the whole outline to show a convincing form.

Here is what I mean (more or less) (http://homepage.hispeed.ch/welkesblatt/pics/temp/lines.jpg)

[Tirjasdyn]

Okay restart different pose. Just two beginning shots. I'm using a grid on these to get an idea of where the placement will be.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Cf7cQSDuaGE/SYPARs7mbKI/AAAAAAAAA5Y/rhNoB-Wo7K8/mface1.JPG


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Cf7cQSDuaGE/SYPARmoUnAI/AAAAAAAAA5g/OUmyvQRfNAw/mface2.JPG

[figueroa]

Excellent advice though Cati....
Once you have the "seeing" real life for these kinds of studies of form then your brain can kick back in to tweak it a bit , ie picasso, distorting shapes and form

[Croebh]

Double post - delete

[Croebh]

Another thing that has helped me get better at drawing (still pretty bad imo :-( ) is, as Vyse-Soa said, simplifying things. If you start off with a sketch of the face before you start shading/coloring it, it can make the art seem a lot easier, and in some (most?) cases, it ends up looking better. As everyone on this forum seems to say, practice practice practice :-)

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