First ever 3D anatomy textbook is now on the press.

[SheepFactory]

Great to see it finally out! , congrats man!

Ali

[Windex]

nj hope u see a few hundered thousand copies, or even millions :D

[BiTMAP]

great work man :D

[Neison]

CDS, this looks very cool. I buy a lot of anatomy books (medical and artistic alike) and I'll definitely have to add this to the shelf! Were you contracted for this or is it a self initiated project?

Looking forward to seeing it in print! :thumbsup:

[Aose]

CDS,
Liked too.Your work very contain value, it is very great.
:applause:

[lildragon]

CDS very cool man, check your pm. And oooh a Heidelberg, such sweet machines, I used to work on one :love:

-lild

[goodlag]

wow :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock: :applause: :thumbsup:

[Pixalkiller]

Damn - I could have used that for my anatomy homework!!!!!!!1

[Breinmeester]

Wow! Great work!!:buttrock:

How many millions of dollars for the models?

[cgjie]

Thanks a lot !
:beer: :thumbsup:

[paintbox]

Great !

[urgaffel]

Big congratulations! How does it feel to be able to finally hold a copy? :)

[redmyse]

I'm a little late, but since it is a book, I would not have had shadows cast on the page from the objects. Apart from that, this all looks great!

D

[CGmonkey]

Congratulation.. awesome! :)

[Witchy]

Very nice indeed, my only minor crit would be the colour chosen for the muscle groups and the definition of the layers- under the often very stark lighting in anatomy labs etc (if one was using your book for dissection reference) the division between things might not be as visible as it might be. But certainly a very nicely done reference and a competitive price for a medical text.

[CDS]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate everyone's comments, I think it was about 6 months ago when I first posted about this project, and everyone here at CG Talk has been great.

Sheep Factory...thanks, and yes to see it on the press defies my ability to covey all the emotions that I've been feeling.

Thanks windex.....we hope so too.

Thanks Bitmap

Neison thanks.....I was contracted, but the initial contract was not in this scope, it was suppose to be a quick 6 month project, but evently grew to what you see now. The main catalyst was when a friend of mine, who was a Dr @ Stanford seen the work and said, with some changes this could really rock medical anatomy learning.

Thank you Aose

Lildragon...emails been sent. Yes those Heidelbergs are pure poetry to watch, the interesting thing is, this is the first time our printers have run a 6 color layout. A few times seeing the signatures come off the press, I had the odd tear in my eye.

Thanks goodlag

Pixalkiller, yes we hope that it will help anatomy students around the world....sorry bout not having it out sooner.

cgjie....thanks, and your welcome.

Thanks Paintbox

Hey Urg buddy...well we should have the first bound and in hand by next friday, then the binding should finish one week from monday and the release/shipping will begin on July 1st. But it sure feels great seeing it on the press.

redmyse....some aspects need the shadows in order to show depth perseption, but in all the shadows wont obstruct anything...and thank you.

Thanks CG Monkey.

Good Call Witchy.....actually those layouts are the actual layouts but in our final press checks....all last week we found the contrasts (especially with the muscles) were a little to high, so we went back and tweaked the contrast on all 2278 images, so that the visibilty is greatly improved. I just havent had time to change the web images, due to the crazy schedual right now, in the next week or so, we will swap out the contrast corrections.

[Witchy]

Excellent thanks for the update!

Any plans to turn this into an intereactive reference? Would be useful for students to be able to manipulate the models- when I was in the labs I would have loved to be able to use a dissection aid that 'unwrapped' at the same time as I did.

Would be great to be able to 'feel' the relationships between things when revising too- we get a lot of new surgical starters whose main learning gap is relating structures to each other in real time. Obviously no substitute for getting stuck in, but as a learning aid interactive anatomical material is something I've always wanted to see made widely available for the whole human body (there are specific ones but they aren't as good as they might be).

[saltank]

Will this be available in my local Chapters/Indigo store? :cool: :beer:

[requiem]

will you do any poster size front, back, and side images for anatomy reference? (for poor college students)

[BlueCougar]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
With a background in art and biology I find this work commendible and I know it will be very successful. Awesome start given the potential use for the models.

Kenn

[djinn]

Thats just nice...thats nice... thats a nice book=)

[Bobafart]

so, if you do publish the book successfully and it sells well at the book stores, how much money do you think you will make?

and how does the structure work for payment? do you take a %age or is it royalties or what??

[CDS]

Witchy...plans are already in place for a comprehensive interactive software that will deal with detailed anatomy and Biomechanical ROM. We also have a prospective joint venture with prominent medical faucalty, the would use our fully functional muscle structure in a VR Lab, using Java 3D and OGL2.

saltank.....not initally, so the cheapest route would be to get it when the pre-order is available. By the time it hits larger retailes it will be back to the retail price.


requiem.....yes we are, (should be available in the next 2 to 3 months) they will vary in sizes from 32" to 60"

BlueCougar...thank you. Yes it seems every where I turn there are more and more applications for this complex model set.


Thanks djinn!

Bobafart......Hmmmmm, well not to go into details, but I should do ok....(I hope so anyway, after 6000 hours of hell....LOL)

[requiem]

rock on. please keep us updated, i'd get one.

[Anubis]

This isn't actually the first 3D anatomy book. I have been using this one for years. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586630970/qid=1056878156/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-3157365-9733469?v=glance&s=books)

Not to step on anyones toes, but that one is superb, it uses cat scan data, and goes *WAY* beyond the images presented as being in this "first ever" book. It is simply amazing, I just wanted to raise awareness about this book, published in 2000, the true first 3d anatomy book ever.

As an anatomist, and 3d sculptor, I love how the model presented here is gleaned from cleaned up CAT scan data, leaving nothing to an artists interpretation. Here is a better picture:

http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leqyekWgsNzsEvWouCGC3pVDgeZFQGphGG/LbxBfHKlq/q7OoNnL8ori3kHa9wXvUHw=

[CDS]

Sorry, I should have been more specific (being that this was more of personal release and not the full public/formal retail release, I was more general with the info).

Let me re-phrase " The first ever modeled & textured(non-procedural) medical quality, 3D structural anatomy textbook in the world".

There have been a number of software's and textbooks that have used 3D CT scans, MRI...ect to base their models on, so that feature is not in itself new.

What is unique/new to the anatomy world his how "Realism" was created. Being based on general(but accurate) current references, cadaver information, and professional critique/feedback has huge advantages over a strictly based CT/MRI 3D models.

What appears to be the CT/MRI 3D models greatest strength (model accuracy) is actually its greatest weakness, as an anatomy teaching tool.

Let me explain in an analogy.

Say you wanted to learn about and even model an Enzo Ferrari car. Now if you wanted the ultimate photo realism, you could just take 100's of pictures from various angles of a perfect original, but what if there were no perfect originals in existence. All of the Enzo Ferrari's had bent frames, damaged side panels, damaged interiors, different engines, powertrain, tires and rims (than the original). All of those arbitrary inconsistencies to the perfect original would make learning the original difficult because of the variations.

The same can be said for humans, to take all the CT's/MRI's of one human being and use that for a common reference point is problematic due to, morphological congenital and hereditary traits, pathological intervention, indiscriminate breakdown due to trauma and geriatrics.

Thus to have a non CT/MRI human model is in fact more accurate to the general human population, because we can create a model based on the original with all of the medical detail, but with none of the arbitrary variations....thus creating the perfect 3D blank/starting point in order to learn anatomy.

The above is just one aspect that makes "Realism" unique and to go into any further examples would be redundant, but I hope my answer to your post has redefined my initial statement for you.

Thanks for your input and interest.

[silvergun]

wow this books amazing. Good work my friend..When is it available for purchase and how much? and do you ship to the uk? Ive been looking for this type of book for a while and even though i'm not going for realism but more japanese anime type proportions, it'll help me out with the muscle and shape. How about a cd rom for every book with quicktime videos of the figures moving in 360 degree so we can get better looks of each model. Amazing, i hope you make millions!

[Anubis]

The second you take away variations you lose detail, I am sorry, but I don't see the point in your argument. You can learn anatomy better from a cleaned up MRI/CT model than an artists interpetation. Every cadaver you look at is different, but not enough to outweigh the simple fact that you miss... The MRI/CT has all veins/arteries, EVERYTHING, more data than you could take the time to produce; in much better detail. A lot of the bones in your images have surfaces far smoother than an actual bone, not texture, but surface, you know what I'm talking about, the procedural jitter of the bone surface. Anyhow, I have also been creating a rigged human moving muscular system, so I'm the harshest critic here. There is a place for what you're doing, and it's animation, the CT/MRI data is too dirty for animation.

What program sis you use to do this?

[CDS]

I guess we all have our opinions, needless to say I feel confident in my position, as the "Realism" project has the backing of one of the leading medical VR institutions in North America of which they chose the "Realism" models/textures over the CT/MRI ones you seem to prefer. In fact the "Realism" project may even have a booth at Siggraph 2003 with Sun Microsystems and their VR Java Cave ( I understand they will also be sharing with another group as well but I'm unsure of who that is). Thus you seem solid in your position, as everyone has a right to be and so any further debate would be pointless.

Would you care to post some of your human anatomy models/creations???...but in a different thread please as I would not want to mislead anyone.

As for program (3D application) it was created in 3D studio max 4.2 and rendered in Mental Ray.

[CDS]

silvergun...sorry, I must have overlooked your post. Thank you very much, your comments and encouragement are greatly appreciated.

Yes we will be shipping to the UK and world wide. We are looking to have our formal release date within the next few days, and you can view our current price list here.

Price index (http://www.cdmedia-studio.com/kasterstener/purchase.htm)

...as for a cdrom, there will not be one with this textbook, but keep in mind this text book shows full 360 degree rotation on 95% of all the human structural anatomy(450 pages of bone, muscle, tendon, bursa, ligament, and nerve) but there will be a comprehensive software release with the "Realism" content. It should be ready for release sometime this fall.

[celezionka]

CDS -- the snippets from your book look great! What a fantastic amount of work.

You can learn anatomy better from a cleaned up MRI/CT model than an artists interpetation.
I have to disagree. *THE* textbook of anatomy that most medical students use to learn anatomy is Netter's Anatomy, which is an artist's rendition of anatomy. I definately prefered it over the photographic anatomy books. There is something to be said for a clean, detailed artist's drawing versus an incredibly detailed photo or CT/MRI image. Less is more? Or perhaps the right amount of detail?

Anyway, kudos on a great looking book.

[Anubis]

Netter's uses drawings because in photos it is very, very, very hard to differentiate between muscle, fascia, and anything else on the anatomical landscape. To site that Netter's and Gray's are the standard because anatomy is very hard to distinguish in photographs as compared to drawings and then interchange "photo" with "CT/MRI 3D models" is rediculous, and insulting.

As I said before, this is cleaned up CT/MRI data. It has been converted into a lower res subpatch model. It is clean, tight, and flat textured, you have no room to talk until you have seen the book.

[celezionka]

To site that Netter's and Gray's are the standard because anatomy is very hard to distinguish in photographs as compared to drawings
... which I didn't say. I merely mentioned that Netter's (not so much Gray's) is the standard in medical education and that I preferred it.

and then interchange "photo" with "CT/MRI 3D models" is rediculous, and insulting
Whoa, tiger! I had no intention of insulting anybody/anything. My intented comment was meant more of support to the author of what looks like a good book.

As I said before, this is cleaned up CT/MRI data
Sounds like a little artist interpretation to me. I'll have to take a look at the book -- it looks interesting.

BTW, I have nothing against the visable human project or CT/MRI data, seeing as I have selected to do my medical specialty training in Radiology.

[Signal2Noise]

Err...if I order one can I get a copy without kid sticky-finger prints on the pages?:D

Congrats!:thumbsup:

[CENOBITE]

This is book is brilliant.

Being both an artist and a massage therapist, having a good understanding of muscle placement as well as a clean visual of where the origins/ insertions of the mucles is an incredible tool.

I will definitely be looking out for this one...

:applause:

[CDS]

celezionka....Thank you for the positive feedback its very much appreciated. Your point of view is congruent with many in the medical profession.

Anubis.....this is not the thread for you to debate pro's and or con's in the different techniques. The only reason I went into detail was to verify the uniqueness of the "Realism" textbook.
Now, if you wish to start another thread with the developers of
the Visible human project textbook, then I would be more than happy to discuss with them (developers of the Visible Human Project) the pro's and con's of each process.
I would appreciate it if you would show other members of CGTalk who have submitted a comment to this thread the same "respect of opinion" that I have shown you.

Signal to Noise.....ROFLMAO, trust me my daughters hands are spotless. Thanks for the feedback, and as soon as our ecommerce is in place we will be ready to take orders(with out the kiddy fingerprints.....actually that exact cover is being mounted and framed) as we have the entire first printing ready to ship.

CENOBITE....Thank you, you'd be interested to find out that the initial concept was geared towards muscle therapists (I myself am a professional muscle therapist who specializes in the treatment of MPS, and I also teach advanced MPS treatment courses)....and just expanded from there.

[lildragon]

CDS this is a great book, love the detail and attention there of that you put into it, very very impressive! I' showed the guys here@ Calibre Digital including some of the directors and they were floored by what you covered and how well you did it. I would totally recommended this book to everyone out there, be animator or modeler, you have done well my friend, and much thx for the review copy, It probably will never leave my side now ;).

salud!

[CDS]

Thanks lildragon, I'm extremely pleased that you like the textbook, it was my hope to create the most complete 3D generated structural human anatomy textbook on the market today. We have future plans for 3 other books that should be hitting the shelves a year from now, and they will entail internal anatomy, bio mechanics, and pathology.

Kasterstener Publications felt that to truly depict the body with the appropriate detail, you needed to specialize on different structures(and if you tried to do that in just one text you would end up with a 2000 page textbook), so we broke it into 4 separate but related textbooks that will eventually become the Realism Series.

Again, "Thank You" for taking the time to review it, I'm hopping the ecommerce solution will be done by early next week(its been a little frustrating as we have had the books ready to ship since June 21, but due to a poor banking system here in Canada we are only now getting all of our merchant and carrier info) so that we can start our introductory release offer that will give people a chance to win their purchase(more pr info will be available when the textbook's ecommerce solution is finalized) and regardless it will give them 25% off.

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