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gametech
11-13-2008, 09:50 AM
http://www.red.com/

http://red.cachefly.net/DSMC/epic_scarlet_brochure_large.jpg

Srek
11-13-2008, 10:19 AM
A few months ago this was actualy news
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=620854&highlight=red+camera

Cheers
Björn

gametech
11-13-2008, 10:36 AM
It is updated news today, they have changed the whole new line into modular system

cresshead
11-13-2008, 11:47 AM
looks absolutley awesome...love the exra...ohh yeah..bit...3d!

Syndicate
11-13-2008, 12:30 PM
all I can say is WOW...

this really kicks the 5D mark 2 :)

I really like the idea of keeping my canon lenses so this is truly a great system.

Now if only they could announce a graphics card that can process the footage real time.. because at the moment just about every pipeline relies on proxy's

Thanks for the news.

mushroomgod
11-13-2008, 12:43 PM
261 mp!!

Thats really funny, is there even a lens that can resolve that kinda resolution?

halo
11-13-2008, 02:21 PM
all I can say is WOW...

this really kicks the 5D mark 2 :)



not at $35k it don't ;)

horses for courses...

Lomax
11-13-2008, 02:35 PM
As awesome as this is, my wallet can only hope this will force Nikon and other SLR companies to add raw hi-def video to their future cameras, for under $2k...

AJ
11-13-2008, 02:39 PM
not at $35k it don't ;)
The FF35 is $12k - although obviously without all the bits that actually make it a camera.

Some of those figures just make my eyes bleed.

earlyworm
11-13-2008, 02:47 PM
not at $35k it don't ;)


Agreed. But to be fair, the closest equivalent spec'd module there to the 5DMk2 is estimated around $12,000 USD (not including add-ons).

If one is looking for a dSLR that also happens to shoot HD footage (and are willing to ignore the potential usability issues that come with trying to use a dSLR as a motion picture camera) then the 5DMk2 is probably a lot better buy (and is a lot closer to being released).

If however your after a camera that is more motion than still in function then the lower priced scarlets are probably better buys.

All this assuming that the Scarlet and Epic make it to market with specs close to what they've outlined here.

mental
11-13-2008, 03:40 PM
A few months ago this was actualy news
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=620854&highlight=red+camera

Cheers
Björn
While the Scarlett and the Epic were first announced a few months ago, the actual specs have changed since then. This is said to be in response to what DSLRs such as the Nikon D90 and Canon 5DMKII can offer in terms of video recording.

Stu Maschwitz shares his wisdom on the subject:

http://prolost.blogspot.com/

If one is looking for a dSLR that also happens to shoot HD footage (and are willing to ignore the potential usability issues that come with trying to use a dSLR as a motion picture camera) then the 5DMk2 is probably a lot better buy (and is a lot closer to being released).
Chief issue being that while it may be able to record 1080p it is unfortunately at 30 fps :sad:

richcz3
11-13-2008, 03:57 PM
Hmm I could buy one - but honestly, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I just read an article about a SciFi show (Sanctuary) that uses a Red exclusively for 4K production. If the camera didn't kill you - The hardware/Software needed to work it, would.

DestroyerU
11-13-2008, 04:16 PM
Hmm I could buy one - but honestly, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I just read an article about a SciFi show (Sanctuary) that uses a Red exclusively for 4K production. If the camera didn't kill you - The hardware/Software needed to work it, would.

It was my understanding that you could edit with After Effects. Is this not true?

richcz3
11-13-2008, 04:32 PM
It was my understanding that you could edit with After Effects. Is this not true?I never worked with 4k. Let alone 4k in AE. Magazine article Online (http://digitalcontentproducer.com/mil/features/video_green_meets_red_0901/index2.html) - the show (Sanctuary) production was built around the Red.

Of course....one could make the Red their biggest "one of" expense and Shoestring and Ramen the rest of a production. :D


-----
A final irony The completed shots from Sanctuary are being delivered to the Sci Fi Channel on HD tape, and Winn notes the irony of that. “HD technology hovers around 2 megapixels, and the Red image [information] is HD times four,” he says. “So what will be broadcast is only going to do one-quarter justice to these images. But that's where TVs are right now.”

DestroyerU
11-13-2008, 04:43 PM
Rich - I hear you work in Proxys in After Effects and it works really well.

About the irony - shooting in 4k and then playing in HD looks much much better than just straight HD any day - it is well worth it.

DestroyerU
11-13-2008, 06:23 PM
Oh, and why aren't people freaking about the 9K and the 28K?
That is blowing my mind.....

meyers3d
11-13-2008, 06:32 PM
Oh, and why aren't people freaking about the 9K and the 28K?
That is blowing my mind.....

tell me about it! 28k??!!! seriously! thats insane

aglick
11-13-2008, 06:37 PM
The RED plugin for Adobe will be out soon. We are on the pre-beta test team for the Adobe RED plugin and I can tell you guys that this speculation about how it works or doesn't work is probably not helpful.

you are all wrong! ;) heheh

If you find yourself with the need to work with native R3D (RED camera) clips, you have a few options & workflows today that work great. There obviously will be more options very in the coming weeks & months.

aglick
11-13-2008, 06:40 PM
also, the large sensor arrays - 6K, 9K & 28K are designed to provide more dynamic range, better signal-to-noise, more flexibility and deeper DOF.

I don't think anybody is expecting mass-market displays or cinematic projection technologies to support these native resolutions any time soon.

richcz3
11-13-2008, 06:54 PM
Dean, anything above 4k and my concepts of practicality become horribly distorted.

28k Red for $55k Brain only..
This is where one asks if your hand is using a debit card your *** can't cash. :eek:
I would really be interested in seeing the kinds of productions that would require those ex-pansive abilities.

Adam - good to know about the AE plugin (from the curious standpoint anyway). And the actual use of such a high resolution - makes sense.

kelgy
11-13-2008, 07:15 PM
I am happy to be able to get 2k, I cant fathom 28k.
I cant fathom 6k either.

I thought about buying a scarlett when i heard of it a few months ago
although that was before the canadian dollar took a dive!!

:banghead:

JohnnyRandom
11-13-2008, 09:19 PM
Forgive my naivety but is Redcode Raw in any similar to say Nikon Raw still format? i.e. 12/14 bit depth wise. Just curious.

ccross
11-13-2008, 10:08 PM
I don't get the complaints over price, the only one that competes with current dslr cameras is the lower end scarlet. The larger cameras are competing against cameras that cost $100,000+

mattsahr
11-13-2008, 10:49 PM
Forgive my naivety but is Redcode Raw in any similar to say Nikon Raw still format? i.e. 12/14 bit depth wise. Just curious.

There's a pretty exhaustive breakdown of the sensor size, color depth and Redcode Raw format here: http://rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html

Though the article is written from the perspective of "Red ain't all that great," it's quite informative.

The gist: Baseline Red sensor is a 4096 x 2304 array of 12bit photosites. that's only one photosite per pixel, instead of 3 photosites (one for each color which is what higher priced HD cameras use). Red uses a Bayes filter to approximate (or encode or process) the 3 color channels per photosite. So R3D format is not "raw," like Nikon uses the word.

Syndicate
11-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Canon 5D Mk2 does not currently feature 24p. There are numerous issues regarding this hence at the moment DSLR video is a bit of a gimmick, although the lenses are really what are saving the day... the depth of field and full frame sensors are the only things the DSLR video cams have worthy of competing against ANY prosumer HD video solutions.

Thats just my opinion. There have been requests to Canon for adding 24p support however.

Anyway I dont see what is negative about anything to do with this announcement. Jim said it himself that "The market has changed". More competition = cheaper for all of us. And in this current economic climate we could do with saving a few bucks.

Also one more thing... Peter Jackson shot Crossing the Line on a Beta build Red One... And he loved it. What more do you want of proof that these cameras deliver?

Well done Red and I hope they change the way we can capture our lives/stories forever.

luxwork
11-14-2008, 04:28 AM
dude, have you ever priced out a genesis, dalsa, or arri camera with a set of lenses? 55k is set of primes from panavision. Different market than a camcorder...
MD

Dean, anything above 4k and my concepts of practicality become horribly distorted.

28k Red for $55k Brain only..
This is where one asks if your hand is using a debit card your *** can't cash. :eek:
I would really be interested in seeing the kinds of productions that would require those ex-pansive abilities.

Adam - good to know about the AE plugin (from the curious standpoint anyway). And the actual use of such a high resolution - makes sense.

richcz3
11-14-2008, 07:52 AM
dude, have you ever priced out a genesis, dalsa, or arri camera with a set of lenses? 55k is set of primes from panavision. Different market than a camcorder...
MDLook - I'm speaking from an individuals stand point. Not as an employee working for a company that shells out 50-200k for lenses, accessories and essential add ons in a blink of an eye. It's clear that Red is a hell of a product, but how many individuals here are laying down the cash in this market to pick one up tomorrow?

Based on the article I posted a link to earlier, it can really help reduce the overall time of transfer and post which translates in big savings on productions.

earlyworm
11-14-2008, 12:31 PM
I don't get the complaints over price, the only one that competes with current dslr cameras is the lower end scarlet. The larger cameras are competing against cameras that cost $100,000+

As motion picture cameras they're reasonably priced compared to the competition, compared to similar spec'd still cameras they're overpriced. While these renders could be considered potential dSLR killers (paraphasing Jim Jannard there), very few people looking for a digital still camera would consider a Red DSMC over any of Canon, Nikon or any of the existing range of cameras currently on the market. Maybe medium and large format photographers would consider the larger 'brains' but that remains to be seen if Red can actually make them.

Also one more thing... Peter Jackson shot Crossing the Line on a Beta build Red One... And he loved it. What more do you want of proof that these cameras deliver?


Sure the Red One can produce some nice images and for the most part Red was able to deliver what they said they would, so I have no doubts they'll be able to produce some of what they've set out to do here with the DSMC series of cameras and attachments. That said the Red One isn't the ideal camera for everyone and it does have it's faults - hopefully these new cameras won't suffer from the same amount of problems that have plagued the Red One.

Also keep in mind PJ has enough resources available to him to solve any potential problems the Red One (or any future Red cameras) may give him.

meats
11-14-2008, 05:31 PM
There's a pretty exhaustive breakdown of the sensor size, color depth and Redcode Raw format here: http://rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html

Though the article is written from the perspective of "Red ain't all that great," it's quite informative.

The gist: Baseline Red sensor is a 4096 x 2304 array of 12bit photosites. that's only one photosite per pixel, instead of 3 photosites (one for each color which is what higher priced HD cameras use). Red uses a Bayes filter to approximate (or encode or process) the 3 color channels per photosite. So R3D format is not "raw," like Nikon uses the word.

Thanks for the link, it's a interesting read. He spends about 20 pages niggling over little details and in the end admits that the red is very close to cameras that cost ten times as much. Maybe he should have begun with that statement?

As an individual, the Red tech is exciting news to me, not because I want to buy one today, but because it looks like we will all be working in film res within 5 years.

aglick
11-14-2008, 06:22 PM
He should also say that he is a consultant for one of the competitors.

meats
11-14-2008, 07:09 PM
Adam - Ah, ok. I kept thinking that he must be when I was reading through it. He sounds pretty defensive in all his details.
The fact that you can buy a Red for about the price it costs to rent an old school set-up for a week speaks volumes.

We are entering into a new era in film making, it's pretty exciting!

beaker
11-18-2008, 06:20 AM
Canon 5D Mk2 does not currently feature 24p. There are numerous issues regarding this hence at the moment DSLR video is a bit of a gimmick, although the lenses are really what are saving the day... the depth of field and full frame sensors are the only things the DSLR video cams have worthy of competing against ANY prosumer HD video solutions.From the other side of the coin you could also say that the DSLR side of Red is equally a gimmick. No autofocus except for upcoming red lenses(only manual focus with your canon/nikon lenses), digital viewfinder, lossy compression on the raw image, plus many other things. Makes it pretty hard to use for sports shooters or anything else fast moving.

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