View Full Version : Steampunk Myths and Legends Entry: Dario Coelho
11-11-2008, 09:36 AM
Dario Coelho is entered in the "Steampunk Myths and Legends" update: View Challenge Page (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/steampunk/view_entries.php?challenger=15654)
Latest Update: Final Image: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
11-13-2008, 04:25 PM
i decided to take part of this event and i hope i can finish my work this time.
After some time searching for interesting stories and doing research i chose "The Wonderful Wizard of OZ", because it fits best to the pictures i had in mind so far. Beside my girlfriend loves the story and i love apes. Did i ever had a choice?
The attack of the flying apes is one of my favourite scenes and i'm pretty sure i'll try to illustrate that scene. My first idea was to only show the witch with her apes in the castle, but its quite boring and i wanted to paint something bigger, something "epic". Thinking about Steampunk... I decided to relocate the whole story into a smaller universe, put it into an industrial city - inspired by London in age of the industrial revolution. The journey of Dorothy and her fellows would lead through this city, with it's districts which resemble the different chapters of the story. For example the emerald city will be a district where all the buildings have roofs made of copper, which turns into green, as we know.
There are a lot of other ideas and concepts running through my mind right now, but i leave this first post as it is and show you two of my first sketch-pages.
Good Luck to everyone and let's party! :)
11-13-2008, 04:27 PM
And the sketch number 2. Had a bit of confusion now, didn't understand exactly how to submit two or more pictures in one post. Or is it possible anyway?
11-13-2008, 04:40 PM
very impressive.. i like the idea alot.. your work on the blog is also absolutly fabulous .. wish i had those skills :)
11-13-2008, 04:44 PM
wow. really beautiful drawings! I can't wait to see what you do with these ideas
11-13-2008, 05:02 PM
Lovely work, I will look forward to more from you my friend
11-13-2008, 05:03 PM
Whoa, I really like this idea. This has great potential and your sketches are fantastic.
And the all important addition of a monkey has you ranked high in my 'current favourites' :D
11-13-2008, 06:22 PM
Has a ton of promise. I Love your sketches.
11-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Such a nice idea you have got here, and you're sketches looks really promising.
11-13-2008, 07:17 PM
Wow this is good! love the sketches! :thumbsup:
11-13-2008, 07:48 PM
sketches look Awesome, idea is just great. how to put all the amazing potential this idea provides in only one picture ? Viel Erfolg! :)
11-13-2008, 07:59 PM
This is amazing; I'm really looking forwards to seeing where you go with this :D
11-13-2008, 08:10 PM
REALLY NICE SKETCHES Dario, i LIKE THE IDEA, ;)
11-13-2008, 11:01 PM
DUDE! BEST STEAMPUNK CHARACTER DESIGNS... EVAH!
That monkey looks the business... holyhell thats awesome!
11-14-2008, 09:40 AM
Very impressive. Looks like the most serious concept in the challenge. Keep up that level of professionalism. Best of luck to you.
11-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Wow, i'm surprised by the amount of positive comments. :) Thank you very much for the charming welcome, but please don't hesitate to criticize! It's the only way i can improve during this challenge.
I just sketched the Tin Man, the most steampunkish character in the final illustration i would say. As you can see i decided to swap his axe with a mechanical driven saw. I really like the idea and it will be fun to paint him cutting off monkey heads.
More coming soon, the Scarecrow is nearly done.
11-15-2008, 07:19 AM
No Critique AT This Point Except The Legs
I Don't Think Fit With Robot....Looks Thin Compared To Body...(Just My Opinion:) )
anyway.......Nice Work ....
Waiting For Next Step.........
11-15-2008, 09:32 AM
All of your concept are so well done, I like the variety of options you gave for the apes look.
and I really like that Tin man. cant wait to see what the scarecrow and lions gonna look like. :D
11-15-2008, 10:04 AM
-Kinanh: Thank you for your comment! I understand what you mean, it may not be the usual asthetic, but i think i'll stay with the thin legs. They give him something funny and weird, good contrast to his aggressive character. At least i'm giving him an aggressive character.
And thank you too, Rami and NR :)
Heres the Scarecrow. Not sure about the design yet, but i'll keep it like that for now. Let's see where the coming work leads to. I think i'll try designing the girl and her dog next, maybe doing the lion, but in that case i probably won't change much.
11-15-2008, 10:09 AM
Wow! This are some nice sketches. I am curious with what you will come up with in the future :)
11-15-2008, 11:13 AM
kewwl :D you just boosted me up :thumbsup:
11-15-2008, 06:47 PM
awesome sketch..i loled when i looked into the cylinder in lower part of tinman hahaha..
really inspiring work!
11-15-2008, 09:09 PM
Awesome! one of the best concepts of the challenge forum! I love them :scream: I'll look forward this one for sure.
11-15-2008, 10:32 PM
I like ideas and drawing! good luck! )
11-16-2008, 02:25 AM
It's the details that really make this awesome: the bolts holding the monkey's cap on, the crow skulls dangling from the scarecrow's belt, the witches monkey skull hat with feathers.
11-16-2008, 04:41 AM
Really loved the scarecrow design, I like your sketching stile a lot!
Beautiful drawings and great character designs! :thumbsup: I look forward to seeing where you take this!
11-16-2008, 12:21 PM
Look Beautiful..........Waiting To See girl Design And Dog.....
11-16-2008, 12:26 PM
..... and the lion too......
nice concept you've got there man, cant wait to see more of this one :thumbsup:
11-16-2008, 01:17 PM
this is definitely my fav! :love: n will keep a really close watch on it too! :D
lovely character design and style!
i must say .. you nailed it with the steampunk aesthetics! (already :D)
good luck dude! :thumbsup:
11-16-2008, 01:20 PM
Hello DarioCoelho, just dropping by to say how great your steampunk Wizard of Oz is looking already! I'm looking forward to updates and expecting much of this! Good luck!
11-16-2008, 01:34 PM
just bloody brilliant - all of it :) Can't wait to see more:thumbsup:
11-16-2008, 01:38 PM
The idea and concepts that you´ve shown us are great. Good luck and have a fun time here!
11-16-2008, 09:34 PM
Wow, people, thank you all very much for the nice words you left here for me. :) I have to say i'm surprised by the amount of positive feedback and i hope i won't disappoint you with my final image.
I'm posting the girl and her little dog this time. This one was tough, i'm not used at all with drawing children and i had really big problems making her look the way i wanted to. The proportions are a bit off and the balance is worse than worse, but it's about the design, so i won't worry too much about that for now.
Next one is the lion, like i mentioned before i probably won't change much, maybe play a bit with the proportions and the size of the mane, but he will pretty much be a lion. Nothing more. :)
I think the face is too large for her head. Additionally, the head may be too large for the body. The outfit is nice. :)
11-17-2008, 12:24 AM
Hi Dario, i think you could remove the area under her eyes, i think children doesn't have them at that age, and also maybe the face proportion is a bit to long for a children, usually they have more rounded face, and also the neck, its to thick for children's neck, anyway nice wizard of oz concept dude, just looking by your sketch i already wanna know on how if this one is make into a movie, hahahaha, nice one dude, looking forward into this one
11-17-2008, 10:10 AM
Lovely lovely drawings.
Nice concept too :)
11-17-2008, 10:17 AM
-M31, Niall: Thank you very much for the critique and tips! I tried to make a better version and i think i'm on the right track now. Also prefered lighter hair, because i want her to really stand out in the final painting which will be rather dark i guess.
-Spin99: Brigado, Mr. Coelho! :)
11-17-2008, 01:33 PM
Nice work - super drawings and concept. :beer:
11-17-2008, 05:04 PM
I like the new Dorothy sketches better, but I think her hair style looks very modern.
Much better! :) I especially like the drawing of Dorothy on the left. Her chin looks a bit large in the right drawing. Also, Miketche does make a good point about her hair being in a modern style.
11-18-2008, 01:45 AM
wow,lovely, nice new dorothy, makes me wanna do the 3D version of it, hahahaha, oh yeah are you on 2D or 3D for this competition? nice one dude, keep it up
11-18-2008, 03:57 AM
OMG awesome concept!! deffinitely going to keep track of this one! :)
11-18-2008, 04:39 AM
Those are really lovely concepts. You should win the prize for pre-viz!
11-18-2008, 05:13 AM
Amazing Sketches. Really good.:thumbsup:
keep it up
11-18-2008, 05:32 AM
wow, awesome pencil drawings !!! Looking forward to see the next updates :)
Wow wonderful concepts!
I'll definitely follow this thread! Good stuff!
11-18-2008, 01:27 PM
nice idea and concept as well,rich of detail.......looking forward to see the next update.
11-19-2008, 02:18 AM
Very good idea and I like your pencil sketchs, they are great and artistic.
11-19-2008, 03:57 AM
Your drawings are beautiful. I am very jealous. :banghead:
11-19-2008, 04:13 AM
Wow, your sketches could be framed by themselves. I can't wait to see what comes of them!
11-19-2008, 09:54 PM
Thank you all, good to be on the possibly right track. :)
Yesterday I painted a little oil-color study of the tinman. I just scanned it and refined the painting with some digital tweaks in Painter. I think i'll use this kind of mixed media technique for my final illustration too.
The Lion is nearly done, coming soon!
11-19-2008, 10:30 PM
Great ! I love the color choice...
I am eager to see more !!!
11-19-2008, 10:41 PM
I've settled the same story too - so I'm really interested and rather awed to see your magnificent entry! Will be fun for me to compare and contrast!
Think your concept art is absolutely stunning and cant wait to see more! Are you going to make it in 2D?
11-20-2008, 07:34 PM
Very nice character design. Steam punky all the way :thumbsup: I'll be watching this one.
11-26-2008, 10:06 AM
amazing sketchs man..both on this thread and on your blog.
good luck with the challenge.
11-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Great sketches you have man. You have a great idea too. I want to see everything put together. Good luck and have fun.
11-27-2008, 11:56 AM
Ok, fellas... I'm back!
I wanted to post the Lion Concept before moving on to the illustration work, but i've made this first little thumbnail sketch and wanted to share this with you. I won't say much about it right now, because i think it's good as a basis and i have to work it out to be able to tell you what i'm aiming for. But don't hesitate to tell me your opinion! Every kind of input is very welcome.
11-27-2008, 12:00 PM
Thank you for you comments! :)
-Selina: Curious where you end up with your entry! I'll do the illustration completely in 2D. Mixing traditional media with Painter X.
11-27-2008, 08:20 PM
I painted over the first thumbnail and changed the things i got aware of. Next coming soon...
11-28-2008, 09:18 AM
hey dario, nice sketch and comp, i'm excited for your details coming up, and the lion concepts for sure :)
11-28-2008, 08:55 PM
Next version with a border. I'm not sure if this next step is right, but i think i pushed the composition at least.
11-28-2008, 09:13 PM
I've been in love with the Wizard of Oz as long as I can remember - out of all the entries, I'm most excited to see yours come to fruition. The concept work looks amazing - great job.
11-28-2008, 11:03 PM
Great sketches and a really cool subject to take a steampunk theme to...
11-28-2008, 11:17 PM
This is a wonderful idea, and you're doing well with it! I do like the frame as it caps the top of your composition nicely. It needs to be a little less dominating, but has a lot of potential. I can imagine little bits of revealed clockwork and piping as subtle detail.
Great start, keep it up :)
11-28-2008, 11:49 PM
I'm very excited to see someone doing the Wizard of Oz - I'm also a fan. Your work so far is amazing, love your character designs and composition. Beautiful.
11-29-2008, 07:11 AM
Last but not least, the cowardly lion! I'm pretty happy with the design, i may change minor things in the final illustration, but this will work for now.
11-29-2008, 07:13 AM
And thanks for the nice comments again! I'm glad the frame doesn't seem to be totally wrong. I will make some variations to see what i can change else.
11-29-2008, 08:03 AM
I Can Smell The BloodShed ...I Mean The Oilshade From Here:eek: ....
Awsome Work dario
12-02-2008, 02:50 PM
those sketches look really good. nice to see fresh ideas around! good luck..hope to see something together soon
12-02-2008, 06:42 PM
Lovely concept, it's gonna be a killer entry :)
12-02-2008, 09:04 PM
Love all the sketches so far. The flying monkeys are the absolute best! Can't wait to see more of this. :thumbsup:
AMAZING CONCEPTS! great!!
01-02-2009, 05:17 PM
Can't wait to see it finished! I love all your character studies! Should be an excellent piece. Thanks for sharing your thought process. You inspire me to work harder!
01-02-2009, 06:21 PM
Very nice sketches and concepts!Very good idea!
01-03-2009, 05:17 PM
Wow, one month just passed and i'm still working on the composition thumbnail. Christmas burnout... No, to be honest, i had some big problems finding the right way of illustrating this story, so i decided to take a break as long as i get in the mood again. And i think i can move on now. Two variations - i'm glad i found a way to include the witch in the final piece. Next steps should be making the proportions and composition right and hopefully start working on the rendering.
Let me read what you think! Thanks. :)
Oh, and HAPPY NEW YEAR to everybody around here!
Yeah, he's back. It's good to see work is going on here.
I think taking a break wasn't a bad idea. I like the new composition so far. In my opinion it's more dynamic and clear now. This horizontal "s" curve in the second sketch works good. I'm looking forward to see your next steps :)
01-03-2009, 07:17 PM
Awesome! Loving the silhouette treatment of the first with the dramatic lighting. Lovely color scheme as well!
01-04-2009, 10:01 AM
nice to see your progress(i love your design characters) ,not a lot of to say untill now.
i like the composition and color,good work.
Tootfairy and stymphalian birds (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=278&t=697813)
01-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Nice compositions (And I love your concepts above!) Which one you choose depends on what you want to emphasize: #1 really hilights the "good guys," especially Dorothy on the lion. #2 is all about the witch. Personally, I like the top one - Dorothy being hilighted is nice and the colors are a nice and understated and steampunk-appropriate (although bringing in some of the warm tones from the lower half of #2 could also be nice.) The bottom one is more glitzy and feels less steampunk. But whichever you choose, good luck finishing the entire painting in the next week! :thumbsup:
01-04-2009, 04:08 PM
nice character design & composition
01-04-2009, 04:10 PM
nice character design & composition.
01-04-2009, 08:51 PM
When i saw this my first thought was: "alright, you -are- an illustrator".
It really is good.
However, looking at it I think your composition is a bit busy. I get the feeling you were thinking "i have x number of characters and have to squeeze them all in - and there's still a bit of space in the corner here". Maybe you have to accept you can't give them all equal attention, but must find a scenario in the story, or make one up, where some are in focus and others in supportive or even background roles.
I just found out today that the image part of this challenge ends on jan 12. I guess I won't be finishing my santa then, so I'm rooting for you now. Go get'em tiger! You better be good!
01-05-2009, 10:32 PM
Okay, so i rearranged some things and started to render minor parts. The witch was moved to the far background and i put in more monkeys. Beside changing the girl and the lion, color tweaks, stretching the canvas... I think i nailed the composition, at least as good as i could do right now, and i'm pretty happy with the colors, but the values will get brighter in the final piece.
Guess i'll post daily updates from now on. ;)
01-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Sorry, not meant to be rude, but i'll answer to your comments tomorrow. It's late and i just wanted to post the current status of the painting. Thanks!
01-06-2009, 10:31 AM
Thanks again for the nice comments!
-AK86: Thanks for the endorsment, i'm lucky i got back on the track again and for now it's really fun to paint this piece.
-walrus: Muchas Gracias! I understand and fully agree to what you wrote and it helped me to clearify my intentions on this piece. So i tried to get a mix of both. The witch in the background doesn't take too much attraction from the girl and the lion, but still implements the certain objects i was missing in the first, nearly monochrome, sketch. The colors may change a lot before ending this image - my paintings always tend to become very saturated while i'm painting, but thanks to the digital prospects i'm able to change that later on.
-Thomas: Hey buddy! I'm flattered by your words. I heard that problem with the arrangement of the figures from some people, including you now, and i have to agree, but time is running and this is the best i could do - still i'm not really happy, but i'll save the anger for the next painting project. ;)
Hope i can finish this in time... aiaiaiiii
01-06-2009, 10:37 AM
I started to work on some details, just to get a milestone done and a reference for all the other parts in the painting. It's easier for me to see the finished look in one part to move on. Still not done, but you get the idea...
By the way, someone asked... I'm using Painter X only, mostly Oil Pastells, the Digital Airbrush, the Digital Watercolors, and some other tools like Glow, Oil Bristle Brush, Square Chalk, etc. The current size of the painting is 4000 pixels wide at 300dpi.
I also scanned some abstract acrylic paintings to implement some traditional textures, but i guess they'll get lost during the process.
01-06-2009, 10:46 PM
great story & composition, high expectations for this 1.
01-07-2009, 06:42 AM
So... my daily update. Yesterday i continued working on some details and i sketched over the thumbnail painting, so that i have a better basis for painting the monkeys. I think i'm good in time right now. Let's hope i won't stuck with minor detail work or stuff like that. You know how easy it is to fall in that trap. :) I'll post a detail shot later...
01-07-2009, 01:44 PM
it's looking good. Did you start with oil and move to painter, like you talked about? I guess it's pure painter?
Just an observation. I forgot what he's called, but the metal man; try this experiment.
Hold your thumb over the metal man so you can't see him and look at your picture. Now remove your thumb and look again.
From my judgement the metal man is wonderful and wonderfully rendered, but he doesn't integrate with the rest of the picture or the flow of the composition. Maybe try to find a different pose, possibly one that supports the action of the girl and lion.
Also, you almost cloned the metal man's pose to/from a monkey in the background.
01-07-2009, 02:32 PM
I agree with ThomasBack. But I like where you're going with color, but watch your depth. Right now it looks like you'll end up with just a foreground and a background, so transition it with those monkeys in the bg. Keep at it!
01-08-2009, 07:07 AM
Looking good :) You can make this in time.
01-08-2009, 08:21 PM
-ThomasBack: Many thanks! At the beginning of the challenge i was planning to start with oils, but i had such a big delay until moving on to the final so i decided to work from scratch in painter. A good idea i must say, seeing me changing things until now. It's a real challenge for me, the first time ever i'm dealing with so much elements in a painting, but i'm learning a lot in the end.
Your critique was totally right, suddenly it became so obvious! I want to avoid changing the whole pose of the tinman so i tried something else you'll see within the next step i show. I changed the monkey instead - but moved the tinman around a bit too. ;)
And thanks to Arenyth and Martin!
So... today i was at university and didn't have any chance to work on my painting, until now, but i sketched some details during the lectures i had to attend. The main changes will be the gate i'll put in the background, to add something more interesting. I like the idea, so let's give it a try at least. Oh and the sign over the gate should state "West Winkie Industries", a little mistake there.
01-08-2009, 10:39 PM
Just a little filler - a rough sketch i did about a month ago, again during a lecture. Wasn't sure at all about the buildings. To be honest, i'm still not, but you get the idea. ;)
01-08-2009, 10:41 PM
And heres the current look of the painting. Like i wrote before i slightly changed the tinman's pose. I stretched the canvas a bit to the left, to have more space for the scarecrow. And beside minor details work i added the wall plus the gate in the background. I'm pretty happy with the progress - think the changes did well. See you tomorrow! :)
01-08-2009, 10:58 PM
looks very very promising. I hope you will do it on time.
01-08-2009, 11:34 PM
Monkeys!! nice work here :) My only suggestion would be to make the Lion bigger :) looking forward to seeing this one finished!
01-09-2009, 06:05 AM
I didn't follow your thread from the start, great concept Dude. Tin man looks good:) I like the overall look and feel of the concept very much.
01-09-2009, 09:33 AM
great colorwork so far, your drawings are just awesome; good to know there`s so much talent in Austria^^
the gate your newest update destroys the dynamic, I`d suggest a positon further in the background and maybe more to the right
01-09-2009, 08:28 PM
I agree with Guterrez and Coldrum. If you enlarged the lion and move the gate to the right and down the scene would be more strong. Now you've lost a little the feeling of the powerful leap of Dorothy and lion. It's only a suggestion. It's still fantastic picture so far :)
01-10-2009, 12:55 AM
Beautiful work on the concept, the colour palette and the composition of the characters, very nice :) The lion is really inspiring!
01-10-2009, 04:09 AM
Thank you all for your nice comments, especially guterrez and ballontree! I'll see if i can do that in time, but for now i'm going to work only on details, otherwise i won't get finished. And there will be also the electric rays, coming from the witch, which will punctuate the flow in the image again. I hope so...
I'm just posting a little detail screenshot to keep this thread rolling. More coming soon... of necessity ;)
01-10-2009, 11:28 AM
I absolutely love seeing your work in progress. Just looking back to your concepts to what you have now is really awe-inspiring. I really wish you the best of luck, mate.
01-10-2009, 06:07 PM
-domoarigato: Many thanks for your charming words, man!
Minor changes and detail work... on and on. Enough for today - tomorrow will be the last sprint. In the worst case i will have to leave some areas rough.
01-13-2009, 06:33 PM
Another, nicely put together image! Slick compo and nice action going on in this. Good luck with finishing.
01-13-2009, 10:40 PM
I have a few suggestions, mainly compositional stuff. Nothing too major, but I think you want to finish so I tell you another time.
I do have one minor thing which you might consider: The gate is popping out quite a bit, especially considering it's far away. Maybe run a wash over it and let it bleed into the background.
Good job though. I'm looking at your pencil drawings for hints on how to get more clarity into my own pencils. Hua Hua! ;)
01-14-2009, 12:06 AM
Good job though. I'm looking at your pencil drawings for hints on how to get more clarity into my own pencils. Hua Hua! ;)
hahahaha, true, your pencil drawing are amazing, love it.
ah yes Thomasback is right, i think your background need abit fog to make it distance, nice piece man....
01-16-2009, 04:51 PM
great stuff, but wheres todo... the little dog
01-16-2009, 05:23 PM
impressive stuff mate. love your style
01-16-2009, 05:40 PM
I like the complementary colors of orange and blue together. It does give it a lot of energy!
01-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Thanks for the tips, suggestions and positive feedback! I used the extended deadline to take a little break again and get some fresh air. Now that i'm back, working on the last things i'm getting more and more unsatisfied with the result, but thats part of the game and i'm just trying to get it done as soon as possible to free my mind of the project.
Heres a little detail shot, just to keep you entertained. :) I'll post a full version of the current state this evening.
01-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Here we go... It's nearly done!
Yes, i totally forgot the dog - shame on me. Victim of the battle so to speak. ;)
No, i'm having troubles right now to find a spot for him, but i'll include him before finishing the piece.
01-18-2009, 10:08 PM
After some research and sketching i decided to illustrate the "Wonderful Wizard of Oz" in a steampunkish way. I always liked the story and i got really amused by the picture of flying apes, using steam machines to do so. My first intentions were doing a darker, more serious version of the story, but i'm not sure if it really turned out like that. I think i somehow managed to preserve the children tale atmosphere and in the end i'm happy about that unconscious change in the concept. Concept! I loved working on the sketches and concepts for the single characters. Had such a great time after working so hard on other things for a long time, which didn't please me much. So alone for this joy i had i want to thank the organisators of the steampunk challenge, giving me an opportunity to work on such a project! Then there came the duty of bringing those concepts into the process of the illustrations and thats when the problems began.
I want to skip the ranting part and make a clear statement:
This painting is not the best i could do. Because i learned so much during the process, had so much to fight with, that i would now probably make things completely different. This is the greatest prize i can get and made the whole sweating totally worth it. I'm not happy with the result, but happy with me and my efforts.
Thanks to all the nice CG Talkers, it was a great time and i'm so glad i joined this event!
Best wishes from Vienna,
01-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Very dark and interesting twist on a well known story. I think you've managed to create an excellent atmosphere and the characters are just great (specially the scarecrow). Good luck! :)
01-19-2009, 06:59 PM
Nice final :)
01-20-2009, 10:17 PM
It would be great to see a whole book illustrated by you. Good work!
01-21-2009, 06:37 AM
hi Dario. i really like that piece.. and your concepts you´ve done on the first pages are impressive.. i was like, aaaaw.. i have to learn to draw.. this guy rocks.
for your final image.. there are parts which are absolutely lovely.. me the most interesting parts are the darker ones.. on the left with the scarecrow und the flying ape directly under the tin man..
anyway image turned out very well and i wish you all the best with it!. cant wait to see a higher res version btw!!
01-28-2009, 01:38 AM
Nice work....love the designs on the lion...
Good Luck! :cool:
02-10-2009, 03:40 PM
Man this sparks the imagination, so awesome. Hope you work in film.
02-10-2009, 03:40 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
vBulletin v3.0.5, Copyright ©2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.